Thailand Rejects Foreign Election Monitors

[Lancelot]

Clearly a number of people are not happy with the term "farang" a number of people get offended by the term and even a number of educated Thai's do not use it, because they know its impolite.[/i][/color][/size][/font]

So why continue to use it being well aware that you could be offending someone?

Because they don't care. And if a foreigner objects, then foreigners are too sensitive because its just their (Thai) word for foreigner...

In Thailand, the locals can really have it both ways

[kuffki]

Nisa, lets not turn this into a big discussion only about that. But personally i do not think i am in the same category as even half of the food you have mentioned. Not only that but i am human, not a fruit or snack or musical instrument, so to call me "kon dtahng bpra-tayt" would be much more respectfull then to equate me to above mentioned

??? Not turn it into a discussion about the word Farang???? You and many others have already done this. Why would you want to stop now?

why would you want to continue?

It has been already said that it is rather improper term to use for a man in his position. It is rather an improper term to use for anyone with education. Just because they (Thai's) use it so frequently it does not mean its respectful and correct. There is a correct term to use without even possibly offending someone, so why not use that?

Why not use kon dtahng bpra-tayt????

Clearly a number of people are not happy with the term "farang" a number of people get offended by the term and even a number of educated Thai's do not use it, because they know its impolite.

So why continue to use it being well aware that you could be offending someone?

The great majority of Thais have limited education and "Clearly a number of people are not happy with the term "farang" a number of people get offended by the term and even a number of educated Thai's do not use it, because they know its impolite." is beyond the scope of most Thais. Getting a grip on reality is a helpful thing when living as a guest in a foreign country.

Guest is someone who comes to visit and leaves. Person who permanently lives in the country is not a guest but a resident.

Having self respect and ability to comprehend things is part of reality, rather then living in some fantasy world believing in whatever suits one best.

Just because in Thailand one can have a wife half his age or house that he could never afford back home, it should not make everything just perfect.

Perhaps you have not realized but Thailand is not in another galaxy but still on planet earth.

[GM1955]

Yes they also call their kids "fat pigs" because apparently its a nice word and then wonder why the only thing kid achieves in his/her life is either being a taxi driver or sales girl

Or a Mia Farang.

[kuffki]

Clearly a number of people are not happy with the term "farang" a number of people get offended by the term and even a number of educated Thai's do not use it, because they know its impolite.[/i][/color][/size][/font]

So why continue to use it being well aware that you could be offending someone?

Because they don't care. And if a foreigner objects, then foreigners are too sensitive because its just their (Thai) word for foreigner...

In Thailand, the locals can really have it both ways

Spot on the key words are "THEY DO NOT CARE"

[MaiChai]

Or a little rat (ok mouse then but they are both vermin).

Isnt it interesting living in a foreign country?

[imaderbyfan]

bump

Yes the feeling is mutual.

and to get respect you have to earn it.

not buy it

[BuckarooBanzai]

Guest is someone who comes to visit and leaves. Person who permanently lives in the country is not a guest but a resident.

Having self respect and ability to comprehend things is part of reality, rather then living in some fantasy world believing in whatever suits one best.

Just because in Thailand one can have a wife half his age or house that he could never afford back home, it should not make everything just perfect.

Perhaps you have not realized but Thailand is not in another galaxy but still on planet earth.

Sorry to disagree but a guest is someone who has permission to stay, if you have been nationalized then you are no longer a guest. What is your point?

[Lancelot]

Farang, derived from farangset, meaning French. Think of the Gallic French nose (eg big like Gerrard Depardo the actor) and you are on the right track.

It is derogitary to use the word; it is often used to refer to you and i see alot of Thais embarrassed when they use. I and everyone else here knows all Westerners are not the same; for example Russians are not westerners, some people from Australia might be darker skinned having Greek ancestory, etc. He should have chosen his words more carefully since foreign observers may not caucasian or even from the West. I am sure Abhisit would have use politer wording.

The word farang should be banned; it just shows how uneducated Thais are about foreigners in that they cant differentiate people from different countries.

For all the folks defending the term "Farang" consider this: what if the rest of the world refered to all asians as "china men" or another word describing their eyes (you know what I mean.) Would Thais be offended? And if they rightfully objected to us using the term, then we dismissed them with "get over it, its just our word" what do you think the back lash would be?

[connda]

Suthep: "I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them"

OK. Here's an idea. Compromise! No pasty white, election monitors of European ancestry. If you don't have any respect for us -- no problem. In my country, everybody hates white people anyway -- so we're pretty much use to it by now, and we no longer take offense at the name calling. Compared to "gringo", "honky", or "evil white devils" -- Farang actually has a nice sound to it! Sort of -- fruity!

So instead, why not use folk from India, Malaysia, or Lao!!! Or maybe even Africa! You know...kon kɛɛk (คนแขก). They're not "Farang"! Wadayathink? Good idea?

OR, you know, you really don't need election monitors at all. You politicians and your rich friends are just doing things on too small of a scale! Think BIG! If the politicians or your friends pay the voters directly for their votes, it sort of looks like corruption. The do-gooders of the world see that as "bad".

Instead, you should do what American does (Hold on -- only about half of us are farang nowadays, so bear with me on this): Just pass a law allowing the most powerful corporations, banks, industries, and businesses to give unlimited "campaign funds" directly to the politicians. Then you use this massive amount of money to buy the Main Stream Media. If you can pay for enough signs and publicity, you don't need to buy the votes directly from the people!!! Then it's not corruption! It's the LAW. Far out huh?

And what's even better is that you can use all those campaign funds to take your family on vacations, buy designer clothes, stay at the most expensive hotels, and drive around in chauffeur driven, body-guard protected stretch Benzs so you can show all the chaao naa ชาวนา exactly how powerful and important you are. And it's all perfectly legal, because you passed the laws to make it legal. Isn't that great!!!

Now, for a while you're going to have to pretend that you hate people in the other parties. But after the public display of mutual hate and distrust on the floor of parliament, you all go out with your Banking buddies, drink Johnney Walker Blue label and sing Karaoke together. It's all a show for the peasants anyway. And what about those pesky folk in the middle class you ask? Well, once you're in power, just pass laws that will allow most of the wealth of the country to flow directly to your Banking buddies. That way you can drive those middle class wanke_rs right back to the rice farms where they belong. Hey, Goldman-Sachs is your friend! They'll take good care of you and your family for life!!! All you have to do is take care of them, and do a little play-acting in parliament to make it look like you hate the opposition parties. Life is GOOD. And it's all legal, because you passed the laws to make it legal. Heck, what good is power if you can't use it, huh?

So see, not all farang are untrustworthy. And you still don't need to respect us. Heck, once you, your friends, and the Banks are running the show, you don't have to respect any of the little people who vote for you -- you just pretend you do just around election time. And you definitely don't need to respect foreigners. But you gotta admit, we Farang are useful for an occasional good idea -- don't you think? And it's gotta be fun to have a few of us around to insult when you get good and drunk -- or when you're giving a speech in parliament. If ya didn't, who else would you have to disrespect?

[kuffki]

Guest is someone who comes to visit and leaves. Person who permanently lives in the country is not a guest but a resident.

Having self respect and ability to comprehend things is part of reality, rather then living in some fantasy world believing in whatever suits one best.

Just because in Thailand one can have a wife half his age or house that he could never afford back home, it should not make everything just perfect.

Perhaps you have not realized but Thailand is not in another galaxy but still on planet earth.

Sorry to disagree but a guest is someone who has permission to stay, if you have been nationalized then you are no longer a guest. What is your point?

Definition of a GUEST is below, unless i miss something offending someone does not fit into hospitality nor was i invited, nor was i made welcome.

I made a move and started to contribute to their house, ie Thailand. So to stop using offensive words towards "GUEST" would only be a respectful and hospitable thing to do.

a visitor to whom hospitality is extended

1. a recipient of hospitality, specifically someone staying by invitation at the house of another

[Nisa]

Farang, derived from farangset, meaning French. Think of the Gallic French nose (eg big like Gerrard Depardo the actor) and you are on the right track.

It is derogitary to use the word; it is often used to refer to you and i see alot of Thais embarrassed when they use. I and everyone else here knows all Westerners are not the same; for example Russians are not westerners, some people from Australia might be darker skinned having Greek ancestory, etc. He should have chosen his words more carefully since foreign observers may not caucasian or even from the West. I am sure Abhisit would have use politer wording.

The word farang should be banned; it just shows how uneducated Thais are about foreigners in that they cant differentiate people from different countries.

For all the folks defending the term "Farang" consider this: what if the rest of the world refered to all asians as "china men" or another word describing their eyes (you know what I mean.) Would Thais be offended? And if they rightfully objected to us using the term, then we dismissed them with "get over it, its just our word" what do you think the back lash would be?

You mean a word like "Asian"

[lucky2103]

I believe I can shed some light into this matter.

This is the original script in Thai language:

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/185737.html

After having a thorough look at the original transcript, I cannot find any indication that Suthep said that he "doesn't respect Farangs" .

He was merely referring to the UDD's (นบช.) "lack of love of their own country (or system)", saying Farang observers were not an option.

Case closed, I guess. :whistling:

[DP25]

Or a little rat (ok mouse then but they are both vermin).

Isnt it interesting living in a foreign country?

Now you're objecting to Noo as well

Good thing we have all these expert on the Thai language here

[TAWP]

Show no respect, will receive worse from me, plus NO RESPECT GIVEN!! to this arsehol_e

How is there ever to be a fare election if someone does not govern the tallies.

Oh well here we go another oneside (phony) election.

Red Shirts have my vote !!!!

Uh, I might wanna rethink that. Or you forgot that under Thaksin the applications of PR stopped being processed for several years and he has a history of being...less than diplomatic towards foreign opinions?

[BuckarooBanzai]

Guest is someone who comes to visit and leaves. Person who permanently lives in the country is not a guest but a resident.

Having self respect and ability to comprehend things is part of reality, rather then living in some fantasy world believing in whatever suits one best.

Just because in Thailand one can have a wife half his age or house that he could never afford back home, it should not make everything just perfect.

Perhaps you have not realized but Thailand is not in another galaxy but still on planet earth.

Sorry to disagree but a guest is someone who has permission to stay, if you have been nationalized then you are no longer a guest. What is your point?

Definition of a GUEST is below, unless i miss something offending someone does not fit into hospitality nor was i invited, nor was i made welcome.

I made a move and started to contribute to their house, ie Thailand. So to stop using offensive words towards "GUEST" would only be a respectful and hospitable thing to do.

a visitor to whom hospitality is extended

1. a recipient of hospitality, specifically someone staying by invitation at the house of another

Ok! You win! Your arguments are overwhelming!

[TaxinMeter]

Here is a pretty accurate translation of the context of Suthep's remarks from the newspaper Thai Daily News http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/1583

Regarding whetherthe Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) leaders wanting to inviteinternational organizations to observe the elections in Thailand, would behelpful in investigating have otherbenefits, Mr Suthep said, "The (redshirt) leaders have strange (ideas). They don't respect the sovereignty of their own (country). There are many Thai organizations. (Thai) media (representatives), universityprofessors or students or whatever. Whyshould anyone esteem westerners to thatextent? I don't like this sort ofthing. The (red shirts) like to getoutsiders involved in our internal affairs. I don't think they should. Itisn't appropriate.

When asked if theoversight of Thai elections was of a sufficiently high standard to ensure thateverything was done in a fair manner, Mr. Suthep said, "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people. Don't bring westerners here to control Thai people. I think our (own) Election Commission issufficient to the task. If you want tosupplement the oversight of the Election Commission or examine the ElectionCommission itself, then make use of the views of Thai people. The media, the academic sector, the privatesector, the business sector, and students (all) can contribute. (We should) do away with the notion that one ought to run and submit (oneself) to westerners for (the solution to all one's problems). [end translation]

I think it's pretty clear that he was trying to say that he didn't want outside interference and that Thailand was perfectly capable of solving its own political problems. Imagine what American politicians might say at the prospect of giving an international body oversight of American elections! The quote that "I don't respect farangs." is not reflective of the complete quote and does not convey his meaning well.

I don't think the translation is accurate.

The original ThaiRath article refers a verbatim quote from Suthep:

ผมไม่นับถือฝรั่งก็แล้วกัน ผมไม่เห็นว่าฝรั่งจะดีกว่าคนไทย อย่าเอาฝรั่งมาข่มคนไทย

This means

I don't respect western foreigners (farangs).

I don't think that western foreigners (farangs) would be better than Thai people (in overseeing the election).

Don't bring western foreigners (farang) here (into Thailand) to control Thai people.

The controversial first sentence here is concluded with ก็แล้วกัน which could be translated as "and that's that" or "if you want to put it like that". The statement is self-contained and even separated from the next sentence with a space which would not be necessary or would even be incorrect if there was any junction with the next sentence. In the second sentence Suthep may have tried to backtrack from the first, but the meaning "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people" cannot be inferred here IMHO.

[TAWP]

This kind of attitude is typical from a Banana republic minister frustrated to be so small on the international scene, what the west have to care about, it doesn't make any difference if Thailand do or say something.

It's really laughable when this moron talk about sending military support in Libya, ah yes send what!!?? No ground operation, so what!!?? their decommissioned rusty aircraft carrier maybe haha. Even troupes on the ground would be crushed easily by Qaddafi's army.

So small you are Thailand and you play arrogance!!

Woop pak dee kua Khun Suthep.

They were talking about sending military to Libya? Please tell me thats a joke, as a former Marine i would feel pretty confident invading Thailand with just a company of Marines.

I'm a 20 year retired Jarhead, with 16 of that in Recon/Force Recon. Give me 2 teams and I'd have control of the country in about a week, and that's if we were feeling a bit lazy. lol

Vietnam would tell you that you are wrong in your assertion that you would be successful. Even if we discounted the actual special forces that Thailand also has [that might be able to give you a match on a leveled playing field].

[DP25]

You mean a word like "Asian"

People in the US would never use a word like that, they would always first find out the appropriate country that person's ancestors came from as well as the regional dialect they spoke

[GM1955]

I think he is right: Farang cannot be trusted!!!

Farang can NOT be trusted to ensure the Thai way of vote buying goes on!

Farang can NOT be trusted to take bribes at polling booths.

Farang can NOT be trusted to keep quiet about certain things.

Farang can NOT be trusted to abstain from reporting things in the media.

He makes a very good and accurate statement which is 100% spot on!!

What an absolute load of rubbish.

You honestly think Farangs are not corruptible, you honestly think western politics is without corruption, do you honestly think that the unwashed masses in UK or USA wouldn't sell their vote for a pack of cigarettes and a bottle of the hard stuff ?

Dream on pal, you ain't got a clue.

Your disdain of Thailand and Thai people is obvious, I know Thailand is not without fault, yet it seems, here on ThaiVisa, Thailand is alone in the corruption stakes, absolute rubbish.

I worked for a very large company and 90% of the employees in one office had to resign ( before they were investigated and taken to court ) to avoid a scandal in a state owned industry, and believe me , nearly everybody was at it. This was in the UK.

We have had the MP expenses scandal in the UK, huge amounts of money, and how the heck do you think cigarette manufactures are allowed to continue selling cancer sticks ? Of course it's got nothing to do with the huge political contributions they make to all sectors of the US political system, as western society is without corruption !

Don't even start on about the Japanese system, that is rotten to the core. Before you start to criticise Thailand, maybe you should educate yourself on the rest of the world, then you would discover there is very little difference, humans are humans, they are all corruptible, me , you, the guy next door, all of us.

How many Farangs here will turn down a chance to pay 200 Baht into a policemans pocket and drive away when they are caught speeding instead of paying the much higher fine at the police station ?

It's supporting corruption, but we would all do it ( I know, I know, ThaiVisa members are different ), but in the real world we would all do it.

So selective corruption that benefits us as individuals is acceptable, corruption that is beyond the reach of Farangs is frowned upon.

Edited March 25, 2011 by GM1955

[kuffki]

You mean a word like "Asian"

People in the US would never use a word like that, they would always first find out the appropriate country that person's ancestors came from as well as the regional dialect they spoke

Well i am sure when an Asian person walks into a store, sales assistant will not scream out to the manger or another sales person something like "ASIAN IS HERE"

I am also sure if US President was making a statement, he would say he did not want interference from other countries, i doubt he would say he did not want interference from the ASIANS.

Or when an Asian person makes an appointment with either a doctor or a bank manager, when his turn comes he wil not be told "Ok, ASIAN its your turn"

[TAWP]

GOOD to see a thai with a set af balls..

The majority of westeners who visit have no respect for the thais or themselves.

The western way is pthetic, coming from the uk im ashamed of my country and the way

we and our allies rape, pillage and bribe poorer countries to get their oil,minerals,gems and gold..

About time someone stuck their finger up at us...

RESPECT to him...

If a country don't want to get pillaged maybe they should have fought back harder.

[Crushdepth]

Fact is that vote buying will be rife at the next election and whoever loses will use this to undermine confidence in the result. So why not bring in the monitors?

If you are "too proud" to try and clean up your elections, then don't whine about living in a corrupt country, because you deserve it.

[cbc]

This country is sick.Not only are they racist towards people with dark skin but,it seems that they are racist against westerner's of all sorts.Too bad the younger generation will not get a chance to see the real world and see real life outside of thailand.Just had a incident in bangkok at the hotel where i stayed always when going there.I made the mistake of trying to be friendly and saying hello to one of the restaurant staff in the hotel lobby .Next time in the restaurant nobody would speak to me.Seems i made the mistake of greeting her outside her workplace as i have dark skin.What a sorry society this is.Seems the so called educated are also racist.

[Lancelot]

Vietnam would tell you that you are wrong in your assertion that you would be successful. Even if we discounted the actual special forces that Thailand also has [that might be able to give you a match on a leveled playing field].

Th US did not have the political will to win In Viet Nam.

Level playing field in war? Oh dear...

You were more persuasive defending Victor Bout

[BuckarooBanzai]

This kind of attitude is typical from a Banana republic minister frustrated to be so small on the international scene, what the west have to care about, it doesn't make any difference if Thailand do or say something.

It's really laughable when this moron talk about sending military support in Libya, ah yes send what!!?? No ground operation, so what!!?? their decommissioned rusty aircraft carrier maybe haha. Even troupes on the ground would be crushed easily by Qaddafi's army.

So small you are Thailand and you play arrogance!!

Woop pak dee kua Khun Suthep.

They were talking about sending military to Libya? Please tell me thats a joke, as a former Marine i would feel pretty confident invading Thailand with just a company of Marines.

I'm a 20 year retired Jarhead, with 16 of that in Recon/Force Recon. Give me 2 teams and I'd have control of the country in about a week, and that's if we were feeling a bit lazy. lol

Vietnam would tell you that you are wrong in your assertion that you would be successful. Even if we discounted the actual special forces that Thailand also has [that might be able to give you a match on a leveled playing field].

The young know everything except wisdom. We that remember know that the Thais are much better as allies then as enemies. Those that think differently should reconsider!

Just to lighten things up look here -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369859/Einstein-worlds-smallest-horse-gets-set-birthday.html

Edited March 25, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[Lancelot]

We have had the MP expenses scandal in the UK, huge amounts of money, and how the heck do you think cigarette manufactures are allowed to continue selling cancer sticks ?

We know there is corruption in the west, lots of it. The main difference is that in the west there are a very high percentage of corrupt officials that actually go to prison for their misdeeds. Everything is relative but corruption is less tolerated in the west than in Thailand.

PS-Are cigarettes sold in Thailand?

[kuffki]

Some posters have raised the issue of respect and that foreigners do not respect Thai's

Lets look at things for a second.

The moment a foreigner lands in Thailand, he is actually called an "alien"

The moment, he steps out from the airport, he gets hassled for a taxi quoting double if not triple the price(ok now its been fixed with the taxi meters in bkk, but other city's are still the same)

The moment he gets to his hotel, taxi driver way too often either does not have change or demands a tip

While in the taxi he starts to shove "body massage" leaflet in your face, even after you say NO, he will still continue to do so.

While he is driving, he gets a call and tells his whoever that he has a "farang" he does not say he has a customer

The list just goes on.

So anyone coming to Thailand gets mistreated in one way or another, which also translates into disrespect and after all that, it might be little hard to DEMAND or even expect any respect back

[GM1955]

We have had the MP expenses scandal in the UK, huge amounts of money, and how the heck do you think cigarette manufactures are allowed to continue selling cancer sticks ?

We know there is corruption in the west, lots of it. The main difference is that in the west there are a very high percentage of corrupt officials that actually go to prison for their misdeeds. Everything is relative but corruption is less tolerated in the west than in Thailand.

Nah, it just costs more.

[surangw]

""I don't respect 'farangs'" does kun Suthep realize thats been a two way street for a long time.

[Nisa]

We have had the MP expenses scandal in the UK, huge amounts of money, and how the heck do you think cigarette manufactures are allowed to continue selling cancer sticks ?

We know there is corruption in the west, lots of it. The main difference is that in the west there are a very high percentage of corrupt officials that actually go to prison for their misdeeds. Everything is relative but corruption is less tolerated in the west than in Thailand.

PS-Are cigarettes sold in Thailand?

But when it comes to corruption it is unrealistic to expect a Developing Nation not to be on the same level as a First World Nation ... not saying you expect this but it seems clear a number of people here do. Bottom line is Thailand is what it is and no farang here is going to change or has the right to try to change it.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Nisa