LaoPo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I ran into this articles in Forbes: IRS On What Is A "Foreign Account" Mar. 25, 2011 - 9:13 am By ROBERT W. WOOD If you have a foreign bank account with $10,000 or more at any point during the year, you need to file a report annually. File a Treasury Form TD F 90-22.1, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts–referred to as an FBAR. Separate from tax returns, FBARs are due each June 30 for the preceding year. See Ten Things To Know About Offshore Bank Accounts. Of course, you must report any income from the account (along with the rest of your worldwide income) on your tax return, and check the "yes" box on Schedule B that you have a foreign account. But the FBAR disclosure is the detailed one. And penalties for failure to comply are distinct from the penalties for an incomplete tax return. FBAR penalties can be extreme: prison for up to ten years and up to $500,000 for each FBAR failure. FBAR rules have long been in the law–the Bank Secrecy Act dates to 1970. Continues: http://blogs.forbes....cial_newsletter LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanyaburi Mac Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Believe that's really the CUMULATIVE amount of ALL foreign accounts, not just an individual account. See: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148849,00.html So if 2-3 accounts total $10k or more, need to report. I snailed mine in last week, also did my 1040. There's a number of Google hits for: td f 90-22.1 instructions Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks for the heads up! I use TurboTax and it generates the form automatically. But without it, I would have not known! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Thanyaburi Mac is correct Here is the form TD F 90-22.1.PDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 You have to chuckle at the initials of this FBAR form....fitting isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It just dropped the "U". But really is a simple form to fill in and print so does not take more than a few minutes each year for most people. Expect those with dozens of account/stocks/control of other accounts and such would be spending a lot longer however. I always plan to send at same time do tax so not to forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It just dropped the "U". But really is a simple form to fill in and print so does not take more than a few minutes each year for most people. Expect those with dozens of account/stocks/control of other accounts and such would be spending a lot longer however. I always plan to send at same time do tax so not to forget it. The one thing I like about TurboTax is it pulls all the info over from the previous year. 1099s, overseas bank accounts, etc. I get about 60 1099s. Just have to update the amounts and off ya go! I do it all online, so I can complete everything pretty much anywhere I happen to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpiety2 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Is there an easy way to file my taxes from Thailand? I don't have any income here and only SSI and VA disability from the states and the VA money is not taxable. I did transfer about $40,000 here from the US this year and maybe $15,000 last year but it was all from long time savings. I normally don't have to file in the states because I don't get enough SSI income. I live in Phetchabun and there isn't much Farang help or english speakers up here. I don't want the IRS on my ass over here, I came over here to get away from the 'smothering run your life US govt. laws and regulations'. I'm on a non-imm O-A over 50 retirement visa. A little help please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It just dropped the "U". But really is a simple form to fill in and print so does not take more than a few minutes each year for most people. Expect those with dozens of account/stocks/control of other accounts and such would be spending a lot longer however. I always plan to send at same time do tax so not to forget it. True on the U But yes it is quite easy as I also use Turbo like Craigt & it is included. A bit nosy though....I guess they are looking under every stone & would consider any interest that money earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Is there an easy way to file my taxes from Thailand? I don't have any income here and only SSI and VA disability from the states and the VA money is not taxable. I did transfer about $40,000 here from the US this year and maybe $15,000 last year but it was all from long time savings. I normally don't have to file in the states because I don't get enough SSI income. I live in Phetchabun and there isn't much Farang help or english speakers up here. I don't want the IRS on my ass over here, I came over here to get away from the 'smothering run your life US govt. laws and regulations'. I'm on a non-imm O-A over 50 retirement visa. A little help please. FBAR is required when it is required based on amount in foreign bank account annually independently of the requirement to file federal taxes. In other words, it is entirely possible to need to file FBARs but not need to file a federal form. Not all Americans are required to file federal taxes (generally that is based in income level). The FBAR is filed for the previous year's bank situation, and has a different (later) deadline and different mailing address than for the federal forms. You still have plenty of time to file FBAR for tax year 2010. Print the form from the net, fill it out, and mail it to the address noted on the form. It is irrelevant FBAR-wise that the money was old money. You may also need to file a federal form; that's something you'll need to figure out yourself by looking at the irs website. As far as HOW to mail the form. I have had good luck with standard Thai airmail. I find it takes 10 days and is reliable. The FBAR is an important form. If you mail it early enough, you can call them after an interval to confirm they got it. Edited March 26, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Actually it is much easier to fill out on computer and then print it - save for next year and make needed corrections, print again. Until they update the form again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) The FBAR is filed for the previous year's bank situation, and has a different (later) deadline and different mailing address than for the federal forms. You still have plenty of time to file FBAR for tax year 2010. Print the form from the net, fill it out, and mail it to the address noted on the form. It is irrelevant FBAR-wise that the money was old money. You may also need to file a federal form; that's something you'll need to figure out yourself by looking at the irs website. As far as HOW to mail the form. I have had good luck with standard Thai airmail. I find it takes 10 days and is reliable. The FBAR is an important form. If you mail it early enough, you can call them after an interval to confirm they got it. I am assuming you mean folks with over 10k in foreign accounts yes? Because here in the States it is reported on Schedule B ( Interest & Ordinary Dividends ) With no mention of sending to a different address......Then again it could be they do not mention it if there is again less than 10k in a foreign account belonging to a US citizen Edited March 26, 2011 by flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Sorry it's a bit off topic, but I've been here for 12 years, only returned for a couple of short visits, and haven't filed any returns in all that time. My actual income has been at most USD 30,000 pa, often under 20K, but up to the time I left I was paying the full taxes on over 150K pa. My understanding was that the penalty for non-filing (apart from any actual taxes due, interest etc) were pretty reasonable, hundreds per year rather than thousands, and limited to the previous 7 years. Recently I've heard that they've increased the penalties since I left, and I'd like to find out how to start putting things in order, with a thought to returning "to the real world" within a few years. I can't currently afford to pay for professional help, but pointers to less-expensive ideally web-based options for that as well would be helpful for future reference. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Actually it is much easier to fill out on computer and then print it - save for next year and make needed corrections, print again. Until they update the form again. Hmmmm...I haven't printed a return in years. Which was great for me as I traveled almost full time for about 5 years. I can access prior years returns, if needed, via TurboTax online. Which works great when you are out on travel and find out you need to deal with something from the IRS!!!! I file electronically, but do mail the payment in with the appropriate payment coupon. TurboTax caught the FBAR requirement for me automatically....something I had never thought of. I just filed an extension for my Mother electronically...did it for free with TT. Great stuff. I get a discount with USAA so it's only $23 per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Is there an easy way to file my taxes from Thailand? I don't have any income here and only SSI and VA disability from the states and the VA money is not taxable. I did transfer about $40,000 here from the US this year and maybe $15,000 last year but it was all from long time savings. I normally don't have to file in the states because I don't get enough SSI income. I live in Phetchabun and there isn't much Farang help or english speakers up here. I don't want the IRS on my ass over here, I came over here to get away from the 'smothering run your life US govt. laws and regulations'. I'm on a non-imm O-A over 50 retirement visa. A little help please. I'm pretty sure you can start your return with turbotax for free. You don't pay until you want to print it out or file it electronically. And if you have a really easy one (1040ez), it's free! There are obviously other options as far as tax software goes.... BigJohnnyBKK: I would recommend you gather some details and send an email to the IRS. I have communicated with them before via email and they were fairly responsive. Good luck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I would recommend you gather some details and send an email to the IRS. I have communicated with them before via email and they were fairly responsive. Good luck!!! Really? My current thinking is to just find out what needs to be done, get a reasonable guesstimate of the total due. From there create a step-by-stop plan and start saving my money, could be a few years before I feel ready to actually approach them. So far I've been able to return to visit my mum and haven't had any trouble. I'd hate to bring my case to their attention and risk some sort of computer flag and subsequent trouble if I want to (or have to) go back before I have the resources to clear things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Actually it is much easier to fill out on computer and then print it - save for next year and make needed corrections, print again. Until they update the form again. Hmmmm...I haven't printed a return in years. Which was great for me as I traveled almost full time for about 5 years. I can access prior years returns, if needed, via TurboTax online. Which works great when you are out on travel and find out you need to deal with something from the IRS!!!! I file electronically, but do mail the payment in with the appropriate payment coupon. TurboTax caught the FBAR requirement for me automatically....something I had never thought of. I just filed an extension for my Mother electronically...did it for free with TT. Great stuff. I get a discount with USAA so it's only $23 per year. Not sure why the "I have not printed" comment as that TD form must be printed/mailed AFAIK. I do not print out tax return as have used TaxAct on-line filing for the last seven years (at annual cost of about $10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I would recommend you gather some details and send an email to the IRS. I have communicated with them before via email and they were fairly responsive. Good luck!!! Really? My current thinking is to just find out what needs to be done, get a reasonable guesstimate of the total due. From there create a step-by-stop plan and start saving my money, could be a few years before I feel ready to actually approach them. So far I've been able to return to visit my mum and haven't had any trouble. I'd hate to bring my case to their attention and risk some sort of computer flag and subsequent trouble if I want to (or have to) go back before I have the resources to clear things up. Well...if you are not ready to deal with this now, then for sure it is best not to alert the IRS. You could do it via a blind email...but not sure they would respond unless they have more specifics. But then again, they might at least outline the penalties and potential payments due? The interest rate they use for money due is fairly low. I made a mistake a few years ago that they didn't catch for 2 years. It wasn't really that big of a deal in terms of interest...but there were no penalties involved.... Just trying to brainstorm on how to figure this out without spending a lot of money! Lop: Sorry! I misunderstood. I got hooked on TT...started using it when it first came out (I think my first return with them was 1986 or so...I used it for my clients). Hate to admit this, but I am an ex-tax accountant. Only lasted a few years as I hated it! Though it was profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 The problem with TT is you can not get there from here. It does not seem to allow filing of E-returns if you have a foreign address. TaxAct has no such issues. http://turbotax.intuit.com/support/iq/TurboTax/Can-I-E-file-with-a-Foreign-Address-/GEN12340.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Actually it is much easier to fill out on computer and then print it - save for next year and make needed corrections, print again. Until they update the form again. Hmmmm...I haven't printed a return in years. Which was great for me as I traveled almost full time for about 5 years. I can access prior years returns, if needed, via TurboTax online. Which works great when you are out on travel and find out you need to deal with something from the IRS!!!! I file electronically, but do mail the payment in with the appropriate payment coupon. TurboTax caught the FBAR requirement for me automatically....something I had never thought of. I just filed an extension for my Mother electronically...did it for free with TT. Great stuff. I get a discount with USAA so it's only $23 per year. Not sure why the "I have not printed" comment as that TD form must be printed/mailed AFAIK. I do not print out tax return as have used TaxAct on-line filing for the last seven years (at annual cost of about $10). Yea, the TD F 90.22.1 is printed/mailed separately....doesn't even go to the IRS...goes to a U.S. Treasury address in Detroit, Michigan by 30 June of each year. I also complete the TD form separately. First I confirm the current form version (it doesn't appear to change that often), if it's the same version form I then just pull up last year's form, change the tax year/dollar amounts/etc, print, sign, and mail. If it's a different/update version I start using that form and transfer the data which is mostly name and address info anyway with a few dollar amounts. I've used TaxAct (software on computer; not online version) for the last 4 years in doing and efiling my taxes...I just love it....it's significantly cheaper than TurboTax software and I like the interface better (I paid $9.95 for TaxAct Deluxe software this year and it included one free efiling...download it from the TaxAct web site..normal price is $12.95)...but TaxAct does not do the TD F 90.22.1 for you...no problem as the TD form is so simple to complete anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 The FBAR is filed for the previous year's bank situation, and has a different (later) deadline and different mailing address than for the federal forms. You still have plenty of time to file FBAR for tax year 2010. Print the form from the net, fill it out, and mail it to the address noted on the form. It is irrelevant FBAR-wise that the money was old money. You may also need to file a federal form; that's something you'll need to figure out yourself by looking at the irs website. As far as HOW to mail the form. I have had good luck with standard Thai airmail. I find it takes 10 days and is reliable. The FBAR is an important form. If you mail it early enough, you can call them after an interval to confirm they got it. I am assuming you mean folks with over 10k in foreign accounts yes? Because here in the States it is reported on Schedule B ( Interest & Ordinary Dividends ) With no mention of sending to a different address......Then again it could be they do not mention it if there is again less than 10k in a foreign account belonging to a US citizen FBAR is sent to Treasury Department whether you live in US or not. You are talking about the indication of foreign accounts on your federal IRS form. With that addresses are different for expats vs. residents. Separate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Actually it is much easier to fill out on computer and then print it - save for next year and make needed corrections, print again. Until they update the form again. FBAR form, yes, good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 26, 2011 Author Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Maybe there are members who missed the interesting links on the bottom of the article in post #1: Original artcile: http://blogs.forbes....cial_newsletter For more, see: Ten Facts About Tax Expatriation Ten Ways To Audit Proof Your Tax Return Six Questions About Secret Foreign Bank Accounts IRS FAQs Regarding FBAR — Filing Requirements FinCEN Issues Final Rule on FBAR Responsibilities LaoPo Edited March 26, 2011 by LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Actually it is much easier to fill out on computer and then print it - save for next year and make needed corrections, print again. Until they update the form again. FBAR form, yes, good idea. TurboTax fills it out automatically...which is great in case the requirements or the form change... I have a US address though...in Nevada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxout Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I saw that title and hoped that the article, "IRS On What Is A Foreign Account'" by one Robert W. Wood, said to be a tax lawyer, would discuss an important point that often gets lost here: the rules cover more than just bank accounts and they cover more than just accounts in your name. Instead, Wood The Tax Lawyer opens with a sentence that misses the entire point: "If you have a foreign bank account with $10,000 or more at any point during the year, you need to file a report annually." Well, that statement's true so far as it goes, but you may nonetheless have to file even if "you" don't have such a "bank account." A discussion of this is far beyond a post here on Thai Visa, so please take a detailed look at the relevant regulations, and note that they were just amended last month. The amended regulations do apply to filings for calendar 2010, yet -- believe it or not -- the Treasury has not yet issued revised instructions for TD F 90-22.1 that reflect the revisions. "On February 24, 2011, the Treasury Department published final regulations amending the FBAR regulations. These regulations will be effective on March 28, 2011, and apply to FBARs required to be filed with respect to foreign financial accounts maintained in calendar year 2010 and for FBARs required to be filed with respect to all subsequent calendar years. The FBAR form and instructions are currently being revised to reflect the amendments made by the final regulations. The IRS anticipates publishing a new revision of the FBAR form and instructions in the near future." http://www.irs.gov/b...=148849,00.html That is, you can't file Form TD F 90-22.1 for 2010 yet because it's not ready. In any event, when evaluating your filing obligations, pay particular attention to the definitions of "bank, securities, or other financial account" and "a financial interest in, or signature or other authority over." You'll find the new regulations here: http://edocket.acces...f/2011-4048.pdf Edited March 26, 2011 by taxout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I suspect that any submission prior to revision would be legal. The report is for the tax year and there is no provision requiring you to wait until they get there act together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxout Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) It's clear beyond any doubt that filings with respect to 2010 have to comply with the new regulations. If you're required to file using a revised version of the form, you're required to use the revised version, period. Considering the amount that could be at stake in case of an error, it's not responsible to suggest otherwise. Now whether or not the form itself will in fact be revised, or just the instructions, isn't clear. The IRS notice speaks of a "revised FBAR form," but that may refer to the instructions portion only. Those who've already filed should wait for guidance from the IRS; it will surely come. Those who haven't filed should wait for issuance of the new FBAR form. Edited March 27, 2011 by taxout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfRider Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 . "send an email to the IRS. I have communicated with them before via email and they were fairly responsive." craigt3365, Any chance you could post the eMail address that you're using for the IRS? I've been dealing with them for over a year on some important issues and they have told me several times on the phone that they DON'T use eMail -- Some of their departments are still living in the Fax era, but I've never seen eMail addresses on any of their notices or on their website. If you could post or PM their eMail address, it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 It's clear beyond any doubt that filings with respect to 2010 have to comply with the new regulations. The requirement is to file by a set date. There is no law that this can not be done on January 1, 2011 using the form revision valid on that date. Do not believe retroactive regulations would be legal or enforceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 . "send an email to the IRS. I have communicated with them before via email and they were fairly responsive." craigt3365, Any chance you could post the eMail address that you're using for the IRS? I've been dealing with them for over a year on some important issues and they have told me several times on the phone that they DON'T use eMail -- Some of their departments are still living in the Fax era, but I've never seen eMail addresses on any of their notices or on their website. If you could post or PM their eMail address, it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance. . Jeez...that was quite a few years ago. I can't even remember what the subject was any more. But I think it had something to do with locating a form. I have called them several times and it was OK...except for the long hold time. But I did get my questions answered. And they were fairly complex questions. I have some complicated stuff. Oil and gas partnerships, a few LLC's and Sub-S that I am part of, lots of real estate and stock stuff, loss carry forwards, foreclosures (as an investor), etc. Just not fun to do taxes! I did some searching and did find these that might work: http://www.irs.gov/localcontacts/article/0,,id=101292,00.html http://www.irs.gov/help/page/0,,id=120294,00.html Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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