Please Warn Thai Students Before Coming To The Us

[MrBrad]

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working unless there is some ' Sanook ' in and of the project/job ..

What an absolute load of anti Thai rubbish.

Well, just in off-the-cuff talking with a waiter in a restaurant here some years ago, I told him that if I were the manager of the restaurant I would employ half as many wait-staff and pay double to those who remained. Of course, they would have to work harder, but they would be paid twice as much for it. The waiter said that he (and supposedly the others there) wouldn't want to work like that, because some of their friends wouldn't be there, and it wouldn't be any fun working without them.

Small survey, for sure. But that's what I was told, and I think it's got a lot to do with how things work here. Why else would there be such an oversupply of employees in so many businesses? In a bank once I saw four women preparing envelopes for mailing: one to stuff the envelope, another to seal it, yet another to apply the address label, and the final one to apply the postage stamp. All working in slow motion.

[dumball]

GM1955' timestamp='1301475515' post='4322674']

'dumball' timestamp='1301472649' post='4322560']

a good learning curve for those that can actually think for and of themselves

Now if only we could educate old men from the West who come to Thailand, meet a girl younger then their grand daughter, lose loads of money then move to a much poorer SE Asian country and believe that young women there actually like being with old men.

You sir , are so far out to lunch concerning myself it is quite laughable , I am not your stereotype old man by a very long way , also , I moved out of Thailand because it no longer suited my standard or way of spending my declining years .

As to the sanook factor , it is a fact as i found it , what you believe is entirely up to you , just walk around and see the over supply of employees hanging around , ask them something pertaining to their job , many cases they will direct you to some one with the know how to answer your question whilst others are also there for the show .

Get out and educate yourself , I was prepared before I even set foot in Thailand but still had myself a learning curve .

Now move on and insult some one else if you so wish to .

[bina]

i think the OP just wants any of u that have relatives in thailand or sons/daughters that are thinking of doing a work/study program to 'caveat emptor'...

secondly, i have a feeling that work/study programs, if they arent through a wellknown university or company, are often run this way.

here we have nepalese uni students coming over for a 'work/study' in agruculture program, and they basically live in appalling conditions along with the thai labourers, get paid a pittance, and are excpected to also study although more often then not, there is more work and less study since the employers dont like to let the students off for special itineraries.

the same for volunteer kibbutz programs/ the same for work study in thailand (i was told one thing, i ended up somewhere else, with non of the conditions that were mentioned in a the contract. but i was a 40+ female, not a 17 yr old kid first time from home. the op says it very clearly, they are kids in a new country with new and different lifestyles then those they are used to. and it doesnt matter if they are spoiled or not.

how many of u would send your 17 yr old (or even 22 yr old that has only ever lived at home) to a work study program that seems on the up and up promising x hours of study, y hours of work, two trips around the area/country, etc. and then your kid ends up in a run down apartment and with almost no supervision or help in dealing with basics, like central aircondiioning, local bus service if at there is one, debit credit cards, etc. no trips as promised.

remember, these arent companies sponsering work/study in a specific institution but a general 'work abroad, see the world' type program. i know of so many kids (20+) from here that have been scammed in similar situations. a girlfriend was left stranded in a aprt in boston after being serioiusly ill and hospitalize. the 'company' fired her, and left her to return her on her own with no refund and no help in organizing anything. her parents sent money and ticket. she felt lonely and afraid, and was also separated from the 'group' that they were supposed to be together with... no one helped her out with the medical situation either. and she was a hard working nonspoiled kibbutz kid.

so the point is it doesnt matter if they are thai or italian. the scams are teh same and exist.

as for thai visa, well, we can only warn our own in-laws and friends. u as the OP can report and complain in a legit fashion.

and for any mor eanti thai sentiment, warnings will be issued.

bina

israel

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working unless there is some ' Sanook ' in and of the project/job .., north America does not operate on that premise , people go to the job for the job at hand , Thai tend to go for the sanook and work when the boss is watching . I have know Thai go for a lower paying job so they can enjoy time with friends more than to work , I presume that is why employers hire double the work force needed for the work at hand , most of the world would go broke working on those principals , tell these students to wake up and face reality .

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working unless there is some ' Sanook ' in and of the project/job .., north America does not operate on that premise , people go to the job for the job at hand , Thai tend to go for the sanook and work when the boss is watching . I have know Thai go for a lower paying job so they can enjoy time with friends more than to work , I presume that is why employers hire double the work force needed for the work at hand , most of the world would go broke working on those principals , tell these students to wake up and face reality .

really.... go tell it to the labourers here that work in 50 degree cent. heat in hothouses for 15 hour days no breaks for 15 shekel and hour...

to the OP, ifu have the name of the agency than u can report to any number of gov and NP agencies that deal with fraud, human rights, and also the consulates...

[Warhammer820]

Actually i have never heard of that..my old spanish teacher was from mexico and the only Estados Unidos she referred to was the "USA"...and she referred to her country of birth as simply Mexico, interesting fact though

I don't normally nit pick but the OP should really take a look at the title......

It isn't the Us, it is the USA not the US. We (I too am from the USA)seem to think we are the only US, we aren't! When I worked in Mexico it was pointed out that their countries name was the United States of Mexico (Estados Unidos de Mexicanos) furthermore it pissed them off even more when someone from the USA would identify themselves as an American, because they too live in America.

That's it, I have finished my nit picking on the title.

[Warhammer820]

Thank you for your post. I contacted The Better Business Bureau last year about this company, but i made the mistake of saying that i was a witness to these events as opposed to being a student from the program. Apparently you have to experience the problems yourself, so my complaint was rejected.

i think the OP just wants any of u that have relatives in thailand or sons/daughters that are thinking of doing a work/study program to 'caveat emptor'...

secondly, i have a feeling that work/study programs, if they arent through a wellknown university or company, are often run this way.

here we have nepalese uni students coming over for a 'work/study' in agruculture program, and they basically live in appalling conditions along with the thai labourers, get paid a pittance, and are excpected to also study although more often then not, there is more work and less study since the employers dont like to let the students off for special itineraries.

the same for volunteer kibbutz programs/ the same for work study in thailand (i was told one thing, i ended up somewhere else, with non of the conditions that were mentioned in a the contract. but i was a 40+ female, not a 17 yr old kid first time from home. the op says it very clearly, they are kids in a new country with new and different lifestyles then those they are used to. and it doesnt matter if they are spoiled or not.

how many of u would send your 17 yr old (or even 22 yr old that has only ever lived at home) to a work study program that seems on the up and up promising x hours of study, y hours of work, two trips around the area/country, etc. and then your kid ends up in a run down apartment and with almost no supervision or help in dealing with basics, like central aircondiioning, local bus service if at there is one, debit credit cards, etc. no trips as promised.

remember, these arent companies sponsering work/study in a specific institution but a general 'work abroad, see the world' type program. i know of so many kids (20+) from here that have been scammed in similar situations. a girlfriend was left stranded in a aprt in boston after being serioiusly ill and hospitalize. the 'company' fired her, and left her to return her on her own with no refund and no help in organizing anything. her parents sent money and ticket. she felt lonely and afraid, and was also separated from the 'group' that they were supposed to be together with... no one helped her out with the medical situation either. and she was a hard working nonspoiled kibbutz kid.

so the point is it doesnt matter if they are thai or italian. the scams are teh same and exist.

as for thai visa, well, we can only warn our own in-laws and friends. u as the OP can report and complain in a legit fashion.

and for any mor eanti thai sentiment, warnings will be issued.

bina

israel

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working unless there is some ' Sanook ' in and of the project/job .., north America does not operate on that premise , people go to the job for the job at hand , Thai tend to go for the sanook and work when the boss is watching . I have know Thai go for a lower paying job so they can enjoy time with friends more than to work , I presume that is why employers hire double the work force needed for the work at hand , most of the world would go broke working on those principals , tell these students to wake up and face reality .

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working unless there is some ' Sanook ' in and of the project/job .., north America does not operate on that premise , people go to the job for the job at hand , Thai tend to go for the sanook and work when the boss is watching . I have know Thai go for a lower paying job so they can enjoy time with friends more than to work , I presume that is why employers hire double the work force needed for the work at hand , most of the world would go broke working on those principals , tell these students to wake up and face reality .

really.... go tell it to the labourers here that work in 50 degree cent. heat in hothouses for 15 hour days no breaks for 15 shekel and hour...

to the OP, ifu have the name of the agency than u can report to any number of gov and NP agencies that deal with fraud, human rights, and also the consulates...

Edited March 30, 2011 by Warhammer820

[MSingh]

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working unless there is some ' Sanook ' in and of the project/job ..

What an absolute load of anti Thai rubbish.

He said explicitly in his experience, he did not make a generalization. I happen to agree with him in "my" experiences as well.

I think its not anti-Thai, nor rubbish. I have also known hardworking Thais.

Me too, on all counts..

[dumball]

I would like to comment on the nasturtium cast upon my good name and reputation by certain responding posters , there is no way or intent that my observations were remotely intended to be anti-Thai , they were in fact substantiated by a few other posters from their own personal observations . The truth of the matter lies in the fact that seeing is believing , conversational verification by Thai employees furthers this fact , if you became offended due to the fact you have somehow become a Thai , that has absolutely nothing to do with my post as an observed fact . To denigrate a regular poster for his comments is most reprehensible , warnings have been proposed in the wrong direction in this matter , I would appreciate mods correct this situation and warn those that have violated forum rules , it happens too often I am afraid .

With all due respect , oddball .

[Ulysses G.]

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working...

I have to admit that I do not particularly like working either. Maybe they are on to something.

[dumball]

'Ulysses G.' timestamp='1301492219' post='4323235']'dumball' timestamp='1301472649' post='4322560']

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working...

I have to admit that I do not particularly like working either. Maybe they are on to something.

[/quote

You have a choice available to you , retire or find some one to do your work for you , I actually enjoyed my work because it started off as my hobby after working for a boss all day , I quit the boss and set up on my own working at my hobby , the business is still operating to this day run by my son .

[SteeleJoe]

What I found in many cases during my 7 years in Thailand , Thai do not particularly enjoy working unless there is some ' Sanook ' in and of the project/job ..

What an absolute load of anti Thai rubbish.

You ought to mention that to Dr. Henry Holmes & Suchada Tangtongtavy -- regarded by most as being authorities on such things (and the latter being a Thai) that have lent their expertise to thousands of foreigners and Thais at major organizations -- who have written essentially the same thing. I've never met people less "anti-Thai".

[CWMcMurray]

Hells bells.

I used to walk that distance to school, and back, as a kid, in freezing conditions. Some had an even further journey to make.

3 miles IS NOT far to go regardless of the weather, especially when on a bike. Not far at all. Do Americans get to avoid these (oh so harrowing) journeys themselves or do they have to travel just like everybody else?

If you really want to help them tell them that they have to like it or lump it, and welcome them to the real world!

3 miles...... on a bike..... pffft

And I bet it was uphill... both ways !!!!

I agree with the OP, it seems that they did not get what they signed up for. The worst part about it is that there are agencies and groups that could probably help them, but I am sure that they would never consider contacting the government for help. After all, they are a product of their upbringing and experiences...

After all, how many Thai people do you know, who would consider contacting a Thai government official for help?

... and it doesn't count if the Thai government official is a family member or a close family friend

[Rhys]

Actually, the stories..... give rise to the students learning to deal with adversity... perhaps the situation did not work out..thus it is up to them to fix it.. Two former students have done the program... both have learned a great deal about themselves, work, and taking care of themselves... They appear to understand the situation and adapt.....Let me see, you don't think the parents who allow their daughter to work in the USA alone have concerns and create backup...

It is luck of the draw with the programs...

Edited April 1, 2011 by Rhys

[pauljones]

Going to a different country then getting jerked around by the locals?

Imagine that.

[mstribling]

Going to a different country then getting jerked around by the locals?

Imagine that.

shocking.

[Newguy70]

Hi Op,

Any reason they, or you have not retained counsel? How about a copy of the contract, could you post one up with the students information whited out of course. Please remember that one can claim they were duped, but if the verbiage outlined stipulates something other than what you are claiming > Then it just comes off as a bunch of whining. I say whining, as most of the Thais that I have encountered only see the United States thru movies, and only are aware that a few cities exist, those would be NYC, San Francisco, La and a few others.

Now, if they were duped, then you really should get all of the families to pool resources together, and have it cleared up.

As this is a U.S. based company, as the Op stated does naming/shaming count?(Admin please comment).

Would love to see the website, a brochure, anything regarding goods promised...

The comments about them living in a bad area are funny. How many people live in gated communities, or a house on the hill, very few.News flash, the U.S. does have crime, and doggy areas, just like anywhere in the world. I personally think it's a great learning experience for them, and that they should be able to take away alot from it at the end of the day.

J.

:jap:

[Warhammer820]

I don't have any of the orginal documents this year..last year i did see a few that stated that they were going to work in a certain city with a certain job. When a buddy and i picked up the first three girls at the airport ast year we took them to the mall to eat and then we called the supervisor. The supervisor took the students inside of her apartment and asked my buddy and i to stay outside while they sign some documents. When the students came out of the supervisor's apartment, they told us that the supervisor got them to sign a new contract which changed the city that they worked in. I am assuming they separated us from them because my buddy and i knew that they could not legally change the contract without the students agreeing to the change. They might have used their normal scare tactics to get the girls to change. Ex: "If you don't change the location you will have to go back to Thailand" or "There are not enough hours for you to work there."Last year the contract stated that they would probably receive 32 hours a week. I have heard that some have had 40 hours and some others had 15-20. When you have to pay $300 a month each for housing and buy food, it is pretty hard to get by. Also the supervisors get $1 per hour that they work. The US is largely middle class, so these dangerous neighborhoods should not be an option.

I found their website, but i will not post anything form their website until the moderators of this website say it's ok.

The only transportation i have seen is the supervisors taking them to get their visa's and picking them up from the airport..this can be misleading. As i said before the housing is not always affordable if they do not get the hours they should.

Hi Op,

Any reason they, or you have not retained counsel? How about a copy of the contract, could you post one up with the students information whited out of course. Please remember that one can claim they were duped, but if the verbiage outlined stipulates something other than what you are claiming > Then it just comes off as a bunch of whining. I say whining, as most of the Thais that I have encountered only see the United States thru movies, and only are aware that a few cities exist, those would be NYC, San Francisco, La and a few others.

Now, if they were duped, then you really should get all of the families to pool resources together, and have it cleared up.

As this is a U.S. based company, as the Op stated does naming/shaming count?(Admin please comment).

Would love to see the website, a brochure, anything regarding goods promised...

The comments about them living in a bad area are funny. How many people live in gated communities, or a house on the hill, very few.News flash, the U.S. does have crime, and doggy areas, just like anywhere in the world. I personally think it's a great learning experience for them, and that they should be able to take away alot from it at the end of the day.

J.

:jap:

[MSingh]

My best suggestion for you would be do get a Google Adwards Account & have both Thai & English Ads to get maximum exposure..

You will be the one parying pr Click though, but if you feel this tringly about it then..........................

[wintermute]

So these "thai students" of yours didn't do their research about the organization they were signing their life away on and didn't properly look into the cities they were going to get whisked away to. What is the issue here exactly?

[Warhammer820]

researching the city is pointless as the supervisors change the city that you are supposed to work in as soon as you arrive on the plane to america.

So these "thai students" of yours didn't do their research about the organization they were signing their life away on and didn't properly look into the cities they were going to get whisked away to. What is the issue here exactly?

[Mrjlh]

Warhammer, I understand what you are asking us here in LOS to do. It's pretty straight forward in letting any Thai who wants to work in America to be cautious about their new adventure. Especially women.

Now a far as your posts go, you talk in riddles and piece meal information as if you have something to hide. You ask for help and when questioned but then you talk in circles. Straight up questions should get a straight up answers. What's the name of the company? What state are you in? City? etc., etc. Hard details.

Now if all you say is "true" why haven't you done the obvious? Contact the authorities there? The US Dept of Labor has very strict rules and laws in regards to your situation.

On-line website. Why not contact them? Contact a local Immigration Lawyer. They'll give you 30 minutes free advice. Plus if they feel as you do that something is astray, they have the resources to investigate and notify the correct authorities and keep you out of it. The local District Attorney can also help you, as can Immigration, the local Police Department, and even Social Services. The women you describe have the same "labor rights" as any citizen. The more you post the less I believe. I can believe the living conditions you describe because I've seen them. I also am suspecting that you are describing women brought to the US for purposes of prostitution under the guise of doing domestic labor or some other form of work. Supervisor's get paid a commission or salary not $1 per hour of work by others. That's falls under the definition of slave traders. Look it up. So in my opinion you have made your point in asking us to try to notify the powers to be here in LOS to issue a warning. A simple email to any of the Thai Newspapers will do the job PROVIDED you supply hard evidence.

It's on you now.

[SteeleJoe]

BOOM!

There it is.

[MSingh]

BOOM!

There it is.

Agreed.

[bina]

"xxxx Work & Travel USA is a great way for international students to discover the USA while filling short-term seasonal positions for employers around the country."-- a blurb from one such program.. they are basiclly looking for cheap labour, so sell a product thats very bright and shiny, then when the apllicants arrive, change the places, jobs, and living situations... they work as au pair, in macdonalds, and other types of low wage, basic work that others dont want to do...

"Launched in 2005, our Thai spring program has become more and more popular every year. For most of our Thai participants, this is their first opportunity to work in the USA and the program offers them resume building work experience combined with a true taste of life in the USA. For our American host employers who find it difficult to hire seasonal staff for a shorter spring season, our Thai students help prepare for the transition to the busy summer season(my italics)"-- quotes from a particular company.

notice that it is all for low wage, shit work. the au pairs are the same programs that our daughters go for: they go to be au pair at a family, thinking that they will get paid and learn english and still have some time to 'see america'. sadly, many of the au pairs i know got screwed over by their 'family', no breaks, often didnt get paid on time but every two months, no sick time, vacation time non existant, promised a separate room/bathroom from the family but in reality there wasnt.

the complaints of the thai students are probably legitimate, but here u can do nothing about it. they will have to complain to the police as you were told, and the sad thing is that those wtih bad stories to tell, dont manage to convince others that it will be like that. here the story is always the same. for every one kid that had a bad experience in the states because of visa issues (lied to by the employer/passport being taken from them,etc), there are several that did get placed well, made money, saw a bit of america before returning to go to uni. the more 'savvy' the kid is, and the more street wise/city wise, the better off he/she is. maybe americans are less knowlegable about thse programs since their kids dont tend to travel to work, but it is very common here in israel and ive heard some real horror stories from kids that got stranded, exploited, cheated, you name it, jsut because they trusted a particular 'company' that was supposed to look out for them (they pay for the company to place them, insurance, and various other fees.).

so dont knock the thai girls. spoiled or not, ist no reason to exploit their naivete and wanting to work a bit and see a foreign country.

i again suggest that u help a few of them to complain as a group, with evidence of contracts etc... if not, then there is not much u can do. suckers are born everyday and the lure of 'get a job/see the world is still greater then 'beware of bad employers'. these kids arent comming to bust their butts just for work, but are coming to 'see america while working a bit'. they paid for that privelege, and they should get what they paid for.

bina

israel

[bina]

u can differentiate please between the manpower placement companies for thai foreign labour which is a different kettle of very very stinky bad fish, and the work/study exchange programs that these kids are going for. these latter are high turnover progarms for 'higher level' people, i.e. they are not the farm labourer/masseuse with extras group. they are just out of highschool or going to uni students looking for a short time work/travel experience rather like the european gap year trips, WOOF farm workers, etc...

bina

[WarpSpeed]

well i know a ukranian girl who was told that the supervisors would help her when she needed something like to get food at the store....well they did not even come close to being that helpful for her...and as far as the air conditioner goes..i have never seen an air conditioning system like the one i saw in one of the houses here for the students while i was in thailand

Starting to stink up the room...Me thinks something smells veeerry fishy here ..

[Warhammer820]

I believe that they are not doing anything illegal. their scare tactics as far as i can tell are not illegal. AS i said in a previous post, i did contact the better business bureau about all of this. I have spoken with the supervisors and their main office located in Illinois. You don't have to believe these things that i type, but i know all of the information i have posted is 100% true as i have seen it first hand. I suppose i could go to a newspaper in thailand and see if i can spread some awareness about these issues. Again, i will not list the companies name because i am not sure if it's legal to do that.

Warhammer, I understand what you are asking us here in LOS to do. It's pretty straight forward in letting any Thai who wants to work in America to be cautious about their new adventure. Especially women.

Now a far as your posts go, you talk in riddles and piece meal information as if you have something to hide. You ask for help and when questioned but then you talk in circles. Straight up questions should get a straight up answers. What's the name of the company? What state are you in? City? etc., etc. Hard details.

Now if all you say is "true" why haven't you done the obvious? Contact the authorities there? The US Dept of Labor has very strict rules and laws in regards to your situation.

On-line website. Why not contact them? Contact a local Immigration Lawyer. They'll give you 30 minutes free advice. Plus if they feel as you do that something is astray, they have the resources to investigate and notify the correct authorities and keep you out of it. The local District Attorney can also help you, as can Immigration, the local Police Department, and even Social Services. The women you describe have the same "labor rights" as any citizen. The more you post the less I believe. I can believe the living conditions you describe because I've seen them. I also am suspecting that you are describing women brought to the US for purposes of prostitution under the guise of doing domestic labor or some other form of work. Supervisor's get paid a commission or salary not $1 per hour of work by others. That's falls under the definition of slave traders. Look it up. So in my opinion you have made your point in asking us to try to notify the powers to be here in LOS to issue a warning. A simple email to any of the Thai Newspapers will do the job PROVIDED you supply hard evidence.

It's on you now.

[jdinasia]

Actually contacting the Thai MFA would be the best bet. If the story is true (I have my doubts) contacting the MFA via the Royal Thai Embassy and reporting the company is a very straight forward process.

[PingManDan]

While still living in the US I became friends with a Thai gal who came over to America, on a two year work vise, to work for a Thai woman who operated a Thai Spa & Massage place. To make a long story short, this woman took her passport, had her working 12 hour days 7 days a week get paid very minimal pay, could not leave the premises to site see, go out to dinner or any other activity, had to deal with the womans every needs, cooking cleaning, etc. etc., she was being held captive in San Diego.

Finally through me knowing her, and talking with her, we filled a complaint with the cities work ethics board. They investigated the owner over a period of time, found that she was guilty of trafficking Thai workers into what seemed to be a of slave labor situation. Well the Feds got a hold of this and complaint-situation, and had my friend be a witness for the prosecution, to a even wider slave labor situation that spread up to LA and over to Arizona. In doing so, my friend was entitled to get her green card, and she has since married a great guy, over there and is very happy. We stay in touch through e-mail, been 5 years now, this was a good ending to a sad story.

Edited April 5, 2011 by PingManDan