Israel Urges Un To Cancel Goldstone Report On Gaza

[BaronCasey]

Now then, Now then, Now then, (as the old white haired pervert Jimmy Saville used to say as he eyed up the young boys), is a picture starting to slowly form yet Jinngy?

Were you there when Somerville allegedly said this? An active participant?As you are a Pattaya devotee, I don't think you should really be pointing fingers at perverts.

It's 'Saville' not 'Somerville'. Look, people have relocated themselves to places all over the world without the emotional requirement of being a 'devotee'.

And on the subject of finger pointing, I consider pointing a finger at perverts to be the socially correct thing to do. Perhaps this is a sensitive issue for you...

[endure]

Now then, Now then, Now then, (as the old white haired pervert Jimmy Saville used to say as he eyed up the young boys), is a picture starting to slowly form yet Jinngy?

Old and white haired aren't crimes. Do you have any evidence that Jimmy Saville was a pervert who eyed up young boys?

[Jingthing]

This thread is about the Goldstone report.

See my post 28 --

... just inflammatory trash talk, not worth dignifying any further response to it ...

Edited April 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[endure]

This thread is about the Goldstone report.

[Jingthing]

This thread is about the Goldstone report.

OK, supposed to be.

[flying]

This thread is about the Goldstone report.

Yes it is about Israel Urging the UN To Cancel Goldstone Report On Gaza.

Here the reasoning seems to be it should be canceled based on what Goldstone said well after the report.

I have read both items & while I understand what Goldstone is saying about how the report may have been different if the Israelis has cooperated more & also how they were shown not to be using humans as shields....

This premise to dismiss the whole report which is much more than those things mentioned seems silly.

The items mentioned by Goldstone now does not discount all the rest that went on .....on both sides.

The report as I mentioned before has many many documented instances/evidence/photos/videos that would not be changed no matter who cooperated or didn't cooperate.

There are things that need to be addressed & hopefully they will be.

Again I do not wish to quote sections but prefer instead for folks to read it themselves.

[Pakboong]

The Haaretz article (Haaretz is a very LEFT WING Israeli newspaper which features many columnists who are extremely critical of the Israeli government) obviously directly refers to the now world famous column of Mr. Goldstone in the Washington Post. Is the Washington Post good enough for you? The rest of the above post is just inflammatory trash talk, not worth dignifying any further response to it. I do hope the mods don't delete it though as it speaks volumes about the mentality of that poster.

BTW, can anyone please point us to a Gaza based newspaper that is critical of the Hamas radical Islamic fundamentalist government of Gaza? Not holding my breath.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html

Does anti-semetism not have an antithesis?

If we assume as in most things, it does. What percentage of the world's Jewish population are anti-goyim and what percentage of the non Jewish population is anti-semetic? let's say it is roughly 30% for sake of discussion. The anti-semetic side would likely include 1.5 billion Muslims and a half a billion others(it very well could be much more and I know many muslims are not anti-semetic). If the same 30% from the world's Jewish population would be roughly 4 million Jews are anti-goyim. That amounts to 2 billion against 4 million. If you follow the Israeli/Arab threads on this forum, as I do, you would think the numbers are much closer than that particular spread would indicate. I am not making a scientific study here, just a casual observation from my daily life.

I conclude in my mind that Anti-Semetism has an active antithesis and I have no problem with it at all. It would be such a boring world without it.

I conclude from most posts in these threads that posters would have me believe that arguing the Israeli point of view is academic and arguing the anti-Israel is anti-semitic. I just don't buy that and I think the root of the hate is in this angle. I do not think the majority, if any at all, debating the Israeli position in these threads, are Israeli citizens unless they have dual citizenship. I use the word debate very loosely as I do not believe you can have a debate with one side having sacred cows. One is simply arguing the worthiness of his/her particular sacred cow.

I am not pro-muslim at all but a "Let them eat cake" approach to this huge problem is not IMO very wise.

I apologize to those who think this is off topic. I don't think it is at all but, that is just my view.

[Steely Dan]

This thread is about the Goldstone report.

Yes it is about Israel Urging the UN To Cancel Goldstone Report On Gaza.

Here the reasoning seems to be it should be canceled based on what Goldstone said well after the report.

I have read both items & while I understand what Goldstone is saying about how the report may have been different if the Israelis has cooperated more & also how they were shown not to be using humans as shields....

This premise to dismiss the whole report which is much more than those things mentioned seems silly.

The items mentioned by Goldstone now does not discount all the rest that went on .....on both sides.

The report as I mentioned before has many many documented instances/evidence/photos/videos that would not be changed no matter who cooperated or didn't cooperate.

There are things that need to be addressed & hopefully they will be.

Again I do not wish to quote sections but prefer instead for folks to read it themselves.

If someone is convicted by a criminal court and new evidence comes to light or irregularities are discovered in the court procedures then the conviction is generally overturned as being unsafe. Let it be remembered that there have been political consequences resulting from the report, such as Israeli politicians often fearing to travel abroad for fear of prosecution in Countries with universal jurisdiction, furthermore the report has been used as justification for boycotting Israeli education establishments.

Incredibly none of the above seems to have been applied to Hamas who carried out no investigation. I see the consequences of the report being sufficient cause for it being thrown out in it's entirity if that's the quickest way to reverse the consequences of the original unsound report.

[flying]

The items mentioned by Goldstone now does not discount all the rest that went on .....on both sides.

There are things that need to be addressed & hopefully they will be.

Again I do not wish to quote sections but prefer instead for folks to read it themselves.

If someone is convicted by a criminal court and new evidence comes to light or irregularities are discovered in the court procedures then the conviction is generally overturned as being unsafe. Let it be remembered that there have been political consequences resulting from the report, such as Israeli politicians often fearing to travel abroad for fear of prosecution in Countries with universal jurisdiction, furthermore the report has been used as justification for boycotting Israeli education establishments.

Incredibly none of the above seems to have been applied to Hamas who carried out no investigation. I see the consequences of the report being sufficient cause for it being thrown out in it's entirety if that's the quickest way to reverse the consequences of the original unsound report.

Understood but not directly or sufficiently applicable to the deeds.

As I said above on Both Sides

The irregularities as you called them do not discount the deeds...again on both sides.

Neither does the findings of again...either sides policing/investigations of their own

It is obvious if nothing else that these two groups will never find common ground.

To compare it to a criminal trial of say one murder or death & the lawyers find a discrepancy in the investigation....yes of course it is a mistrial. But again with ....

188 individual interviews. It reviewed more than 300 reports,

submissions and other documentation either researched of its own motion, received in reply to its

call for submissions and notes verbales or provided during meetings or otherwise, amounting to

more than 10,000 pages, over 30 videos and 1,200 photographs.

I do not see how throwing the whole thing out based on the few items claimed serves any justice for either side.

Just my opinion

[Pakboong]

This thread is about the Goldstone report.

Yes it is about Israel Urging the UN To Cancel Goldstone Report On Gaza.

Here the reasoning seems to be it should be canceled based on what Goldstone said well after the report.

I have read both items & while I understand what Goldstone is saying about how the report may have been different if the Israelis has cooperated more & also how they were shown not to be using humans as shields....

This premise to dismiss the whole report which is much more than those things mentioned seems silly.

The items mentioned by Goldstone now does not discount all the rest that went on .....on both sides.

The report as I mentioned before has many many documented instances/evidence/photos/videos that would not be changed no matter who cooperated or didn't cooperate.

There are things that need to be addressed & hopefully they will be.

Again I do not wish to quote sections but prefer instead for folks to read it themselves.

If someone is convicted by a criminal court and new evidence comes to light or irregularities are discovered in the court procedures then the conviction is generally overturned as being unsafe. Let it be remembered that there have been political consequences resulting from the report, such as Israeli politicians often fearing to travel abroad for fear of prosecution in Countries with universal jurisdiction, furthermore the report has been used as justification for boycotting Israeli education establishments.

Incredibly none of the above seems to have been applied to Hamas who carried out no investigation. I see the consequences of the report being sufficient cause for it being thrown out in it's entirity if that's the quickest way to reverse the consequences of the original unsound report.

I agree that the judgement should be overturned but only in an appeal based upon new evidence should that evidence satisfy the decision making body which originally included Goldstone who participated, as I understand it, in a leadership role.

He is not being helped much by the Israelis who blacklisted him from entering Israel based upon the original report.

"Israel had blacklisted the internationally respected judge, who is Jewish and has strong connections to the country, since his report was issued in 2009." UK, Guardian

Now the judge has been invited to Israel at the invitation of:

"The interior minister, Eli Yishai, told Israel's Army Radio station he phoned Goldstone on Monday to express his appreciation for his "courageous" reconsideration of his charges, and to invite him to tour Israel's southern communities that have sustained years of Palestinian rocket fire." UK Guardian

Yishai went further to make the matter one of ethnicity by stating:

Yishai said Goldstone "as a Jew understands well the story of the Jewish people's suffering ... and it is very important for him to come and see this." UK Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2011/apr/05/judge-goldstone-israel-visit

[Steely Dan]

I agree that the judgement should be overturned but only in an appeal based upon new evidence should that evidence satisfy the decision making body which originally included Goldstone who participated, as I understand it, in a leadership role.

Ah, superficially very reasonable, I note the Goldstone report has been re-badged the decision making body including Goldstone (The token Jew). So who commissioned the report, none other than the UN Human rights council, who's principle purpose seems to be to demonise Israel. The Bush adminsistration refused to even sit on said council due to it's bias.

So now do you expect Israel to wait for a body biased against it to review evidence for it's scapegoating fact finding report before any censure of Israel is lifted?

P.S It is intersting how you are even prepared to discard your Hamas friends if that's what it takes to keep mud stuck to Israel for a while longer.

[Steely Dan]

Remove duplicate post

Edited April 6, 2011 by Steely Dan

[Pakboong]

I agree that the judgement should be overturned but only in an appeal based upon new evidence should that evidence satisfy the decision making body which originally included Goldstone who participated, as I understand it, in a leadership role.

Ah, superficially very reasonable, I note the Goldstone report has been re-badged the decision making body including Goldstone (The token Jew). So who commissioned the report, none other than the UN Human rights council, who's principle purpose seems to be to demonise Israel. The Bush adminsistration refused to even sit on said council due to it's bias.

So now do you expect Israel to wait for a body biased against it to review evidence for it's scapegoating fact finding report before any censure of Israel is lifted?

P.S It is intersting how you are even prepared to discard your Hamas friends if that's what it takes to keep mud stuck to Israel for a while longer.

I seriously doubt that I have any Palestinian friends. But think what you will if it makes you feel better.

"..But worse was to come and exactly a year ago, in April 2010, the campaign against him reached new heights, or rather, lows. It was led by the chairman of the South African Zionist Federation, Avrom Krengel, who tried to prevent Goldstone from participating in his grandson's bar mitzvah in Johannesburg since "Goldstone caused irreparable damage to the Jewish people as a whole."

The South African Zionist Federation threatened to picket outside the synagogue during the ceremony. Worse was the interference of South Africa's Chief Rabbi, Warren Goldstein, who chastised Goldstone for "doing greater damage to the State of Israel." Last February, Goldstone said that "Hamas perpetrated war crimes, but Israel did not," in an interview that was not broadcast, according to a 3 April report the website of Israel's Channel 2. It was not enough: the Israelis demanded much more."

[Steely Dan]

I seriously doubt that I have any Palestinian friends. But think what you will if it makes you feel better.

"..But worse was to come and exactly a year ago, in April 2010, the campaign against him reached new heights, or rather, lows. It was led by the chairman of the South African Zionist Federation, Avrom Krengel, who tried to prevent Goldstone from participating in his grandson's bar mitzvah in Johannesburg since "Goldstone caused irreparable damage to the Jewish people as a whole."

The South African Zionist Federation threatened to picket outside the synagogue during the ceremony. Worse was the interference of South Africa's Chief Rabbi, Warren Goldstein, who chastised Goldstone for "doing greater damage to the State of Israel." Last February, Goldstone said that "Hamas perpetrated war crimes, but Israel did not," in an interview that was not broadcast, according to a 3 April report the website of Israel's Channel 2. It was not enough: the Israelis demanded much more."

Hmmm,

Chastised by the Chief Rabbi! Better that than incur the wrath of any middle eastern Immans, which would have no doubt resulted in a Fatwa being put on his head, if cartoon drawing is any guide.

Indeed I hope this brave chap receives no sanction for condemning the bias of the UNHRC - You know the body that commissioned the Goldstone report.

[Ulysses G.]

He is not being helped much by the Israelis who blacklisted him from entering Israel based upon the original report.

Who could blame them. They knew that the report was not true and now he has admitted it himself.

[bangkokeddy]

He is not being helped much by the Israelis who blacklisted him from entering Israel based upon the original report.

Who could blame them. They knew that the report was not true and now he has admitted it himself.

Goldstone won't seek Gaza report nullification

WASHINGTON – South African jurist Richard Goldstone said Tuesday that he did not plan to seek nullification of his highly critical U.N. report on Israel's 2008-2009 offensive in the Gaza Strip and asserted that claims to the contrary by Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai were false.

...

In the Post article, Goldstone lauded Israel for conducting dozens of investigations into alleged wrongdoing. In particular, he sighted evidence that a deadly strike that killed more than 20 members of a Palestinian family resulted from faulty intelligence and was not an intentional attack.

Nevertheless, Goldstone said, he did not intend to seek the report's nullification.

"As appears from the Washington Post article, information subsequent to publication of the report did meet with the view that one correction should be made with regard to intentionality on the part of Israel," the judge said. "Further information as a result of domestic investigations could lead to further reconsideration, but as presently advised I have no reason to believe any part of the report needs to be reconsidered at this time."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110406/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_un_report_5

[Ulysses G.]

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document....

Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and “possibly crimes against humanity” by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.

The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.

By Richard Goldstone

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html

[Wallaby]

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document....

Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and "possibly crimes against humanity" by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.

The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee's report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.

By Richard Goldstone

http://www.washingto...11JC_story.html

As a matter of policy? So they say they don't.

[Ulysses G.]

Goldstone is well known for being hostile to Israel yet he accepts the validity of their findings (not to mention that Hamas purposely target civilians and normally do not bother to claim otherwise).

[Wallaby]

Goldstone won't seek Gaza report nullification

WASHINGTON – South African jurist Richard Goldstone said Tuesday that he did not plan to seek nullification of his highly critical U.N. report on Israel's 2008-2009 offensive in the Gaza Strip and asserted that claims to the contrary by Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai were false.

...

In the Post article, Goldstone lauded Israel for conducting dozens of investigations into alleged wrongdoing. In particular, he sighted evidence that a deadly strike that killed more than 20 members of a Palestinian family resulted from faulty intelligence and was not an intentional attack.

Nevertheless, Goldstone said, he did not intend to seek the report's nullification.

"As appears from the Washington Post article, information subsequent to publication of the report did meet with the view that one correction should be made with regard to intentionality on the part of Israel," the judge said. "Further information as a result of domestic investigations could lead to further reconsideration, but as presently advised I have no reason to believe any part of the report needs to be reconsidered at this time."

http://news.yahoo.co...ael_un_report_5

You sure?

[Ulysses G.]

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document....

Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and "possibly crimes against humanity" by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.

The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee's report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.

By Richard Goldstone

http://www.washingto...11JC_story.html

Yep.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

I see, so you believe that whatever Israel says is true. That's fine, we all know where you sit.

Then there are those of us that take the word of a country accused of war crimes with a grain of salt.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Wallaby

[cdnvic]

Discuss the subject, and stop having a go at each other. One post removed.

[metisdead]

A reply to a post that was deleted by another moderator and reposted again has been removed. As previously stated:

Discuss the subject, and stop having a go at each other. One post removed.

[Pakboong]

The Forward writes that the May, 2010 meeting between Judge Goldstone and ten members of the South African Jewish community “had a profound impact on Goldstone, according to several participants who were there.”

Debating face to face with the community really shook him,” said David Saks, associate director of the South African Jewish Board of Deputies, who received a read-out on the meeting right after it took place. “When he saw the extent of the anger and he couldn’t answer the accusations against him… I think he realized he was wrong.

. . . It was a heavy meeting. They went in very hard against him. There were no smiling handshakes afterwards. Avrom’s opening statement was pretty merciless.”

[Pakboong]

Could he have missed this January 15, 2009, Ha’aretz news report, written by Barak Ravid, that revealed the government’s plans to prepare for the aftermath of its murderous assault on Gaza’s civilian population?

The Foreign Ministry has created a special task force to prepare for the aftermath of the Israel Defense Forces’ Gaza operation. . . . .

The working assumption is that Israel has suffered a blow to its image in the West in the wake of heavy civilian casualties in the Strip. Israeli officials believe after the fighting stops and foreign journalists are allowed entry into the territory that negative sentiment toward Israel will only grow as the full picture of destruction emerges.

[Steely Dan]

Could he have missed this January 15, 2009, Ha’aretz news report, written by Barak Ravid, that revealed the government’s plans to prepare for the aftermath of its murderous assault on Gaza’s civilian population?

The Foreign Ministry has created a special task force to prepare for the aftermath of the Israel Defense Forces’ Gaza operation. . . . .

The working assumption is that Israel has suffered a blow to its image in the West in the wake of heavy civilian casualties in the Strip. Israeli officials believe after the fighting stops and foreign journalists are allowed entry into the territory that negative sentiment toward Israel will only grow as the full picture of destruction emerges.

What did emerge was a belated admission by Hamas that about 700 of the 'civilians' killed were actually Hamas fighters, a fact that I see is still far from adressed by the western media who have willfully negligently allowed the dust to settle on this lie.

As for any ostracisation experienced by Goldstone after the report was published let me remind you yet again the fate he would no doubt have suffered had he been Muslim and made damaging allegations against a Muslim nation.

[Wallaby]

Could he have missed this January 15, 2009, Ha'aretz news report, written by Barak Ravid, that revealed the government's plans to prepare for the aftermath of its murderous assault on Gaza's civilian population?

The Foreign Ministry has created a special task force to prepare for the aftermath of the Israel Defense Forces' Gaza operation. . . . .

The working assumption is that Israel has suffered a blow to its image in the West in the wake of heavy civilian casualties in the Strip. Israeli officials believe after the fighting stops and foreign journalists are allowed entry into the territory that negative sentiment toward Israel will only grow as the full picture of destruction emerges.

What did emerge was a belated admission by Hamas that about 700 of the 'civilians' killed were actually Hamas fighters, a fact that I see is still far from adressed by the western media who have willfully negligently allowed the dust to settle on this lie.

As for any ostracisation experienced by Goldstone after the report was published let me remind you yet again the fate he would no doubt have suffered had he been Muslim and made damaging allegations against a Muslim nation.

So because Muslims would have treated him more harshly you consider it ok what Israel did then.

Why all this constant comparing what Israel does to what other countries do. If Israel wants to act the same as it's enemies then just admit it and wear it. If it wants to hold itself above it's enemies then act like it. Just because Israel says it acts more humanely doesn't mean it actually does. Which is exactly the reason Israel's friends are turning against it in every increasing numbers.

[bangkokeddy]

As for any ostracisation experienced by Goldstone after the report was published let me remind you yet again the fate he would no doubt have suffered had he been Muslim and made damaging allegations against a Muslim nation.

The report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict aka Goldstone report, still valid according to Goldstone himself and his co-authors, accused both sides of war crimes.

One side accepted the report and the other side not.

Can you imagine the reaction of the Zionists if the head of the mission would have been a Muslim?

[kuffki]

As for any ostracisation experienced by Goldstone after the report was published let me remind you yet again the fate he would no doubt have suffered had he been Muslim and made damaging allegations against a Muslim nation.

The report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict aka Goldstone report, still valid according to Goldstone himself and his co-authors, accused both sides of war crimes.

One side accepted the report and the other side not.

Can you imagine the reaction of the Zionists if the head of the mission would have been a Muslim?

Because 1 side could not care less about reports, laws, rules, agreements or anything else for that matter-thats the reason that side is recognized by the entire world as terrorists.

Also that 1 side could not possibly dispute any report since its that sides policy to use own civilians as human shields and target other side's civilians-ONLY civilians.

Any time anyone says anything bad about muslims - they go burning that country flags and try to bomb it.

Funny if Israel was to practice same methods, what would muslims say?

Edited April 13, 2011 by kuffki