Are Houses Overpriced In Pattaya?

[Darrel]

i would first suggest taking a place for about 6 months

Good advice, and something that I had already decided to do wherever I go.

[FarangBuddha]

There is so much scope here for secure farang retirement villages with no one under 50, no dogs, no bars, no outdoor music, no Songkran riots, some nice garden areas. I would move in like a shot. Cant imagine why no one has launched one.

For all that...you would have to add...no Thais too

[Thaifan2]

There is so much scope here for secure farang retirement villages with no one under 50, no dogs, no bars, no outdoor music, no Songkran riots, some nice garden areas. I would move in like a shot. Cant imagine why no one has launched one.

For all that...you would have to add...no Thais too

Thais in a next door detached house in a middle class ( by Thai standard ) Moo baan are mainly no trouble .Thais as neighbours in a Condominium can be a problem .Some leave their Condo door open all day ,with noise and cooking smells entering your Condo as a result .

[SGD]

When you can rent a 3 bed, 2 bath house just over Sukhumvit for less than 15k a month, why on earth would you buy one at a massive 3.5m plus ?

Indeed. Not forgetting maintenance costs which, for a house at least, may be quite high a few years down the line. I've seen a few well-built houses here but I've seen a lot more that look more like garden sheds than houses.

And if these houses are in company names, then you have the associated company costs, even ignoring the legality of the shell companies set up to facilitate their purchase. When comparing the true cost of ownership versus renting these must all be taken into account.

[Darrel]

For all that...you would have to add...no Thais too

I very nearly did. But Thais over 50 should be OK.

[Darrel]

You seem to forget that Thais also very easily bend/ignore the law when it suits them and allowing foreigners to own a single family house/land in resort areas of the country is definitely in their interest.

If that were the case then why not just change the law?

Also, I think this corporate structure is more of a Pattaya/Chonburi thing as you never see this form of ownership touted much in other resort areas of the country. Usually, it's the more legal 30 years leasehold.

Well, the original thread title was specifically about house prices here and of course with leasehold the question wouldnt apply in the same way.

That said, I have never quite understood why they dont just change the lease laws to allow for 75 or 100 year leases outright, which would satisfy just about everyone and neatly sidestep the company name nonsense. 30 years on a lease is not quite enough for the average buyer, I think.

[FarangBuddha]

You seem to forget that Thais also very easily bend/ignore the law when it suits them and allowing foreigners to own a single family house/land in resort areas of the country is definitely in their interest.

If that were the case then why not just change the law?

Also, I think this corporate structure is more of a Pattaya/Chonburi thing as you never see this form of ownership touted much in other resort areas of the country. Usually, it's the more legal 30 years leasehold.

Well, the original thread title was specifically about house prices here and of course with leasehold the question wouldnt apply in the same way.

That said, I have never quite understood why they dont just change the lease laws to allow for 75 or 100 year leases outright, which would satisfy just about everyone and neatly sidestep the company name nonsense. 30 years on a lease is not quite enough for the average buyer, I think.

Agree with both points but don't expect any changes in the near or far future. Thailand has effectively had no government for the past half-dozen years so issues important to Thais barely get delt with...and anything affecting foreigners is even further down the priority list.

Also, the maximum leasehold period of 30 years applies to both Thais and foreigners. There must be some reason why 30 years was chosen...and why it it is not just left up to the parties to decide for themselves.

[LennyW]

Why bother with leases when an Usufruct can be for life and does not attract the same taxes as a lease?

[FarangBuddha]

Why bother with leases when an Usufruct can be for life and does not attract the same taxes as a lease?

If we were talking about land in Germany that might be an option but in Thailand never heard of them.

[LennyW]

Why bother with leases when an Usufruct can be for life and does not attract the same taxes as a lease?

If we were talking about land in Germany that might be an option but in Thailand never heard of them.

Have a look at this , very common here and becoming more popular, however, some land offices refuse to acknowledge them - untill the necessary fee is "given" then somehow they know all about them!!!!

http://www.isaanlawyers.com/Usufruct%20agreements%20in%20Thailand.pdf

[morphic]

There is so much scope here for secure farang retirement villages with no one under 50, no dogs, no bars, no outdoor music, no Songkran riots, some nice garden areas. I would move in like a shot. Cant imagine why no one has launched one.

For all that...you would have to add...no Thais too

Thais in a next door detached house in a middle class ( by Thai standard ) Moo baan are mainly no trouble .Thais as neighbours in a Condominium can be a problem .Some leave their Condo door open all day ,with noise and cooking smells entering your Condo as a result .

Leaving the door open seems to be an Asian thing generally. They seem to have no concept of noise disturbance or consideration whatsoever.

[Thaifan2]

Why bother with leases when an Usufruct can be for life and does not attract the same taxes as a lease?

In Chiang Mai they would only give me a Usufruct for 30 years .My name is on the Chanote for the house .

[LennyW]

Why bother with leases when an Usufruct can be for life and does not attract the same taxes as a lease?

In Chiang Mai they would only give me a Usufruct for 30 years .My name is on the Chanote for the house .

Strange?? was that dealing direct with the land office or using a lawyer?

[Thaifan2]

Why bother with leases when an Usufruct can be for life and does not attract the same taxes as a lease?

In Chiang Mai they would only give me a Usufruct for 30 years .My name is on the Chanote for the house .

Strange?? was that dealing direct with the land office or using a lawyer?

Using a Lawyer .Not a problem though as i am 58 years old now ,and would consider myself very lucky ( or maybe unlucky ) to reach 88 .

[Rimmer]

Back on topic which is Are Houses Overpriced In Pattaya

Four newly built Houses close to me started life at 20m baht three years ago, they have been steadily reduced in price down to 6.5m and still have no takers.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Back on topic which is Are Houses Overpriced In Pattaya

Four newly built Houses close to me started life at 20m baht three years ago, they have been steadily reduced in price down to 6.5m and still have no takers.

Wow, that is a big drop. Surely the owners did not pay 20 million baht and were only asking for 20 million baht. Right? It really is an odd (three year) real estate market that sees housing prices plummet and condo prices level off. I simply do not see bargains in the condo market (purchase/rent), only grossly overpriced concrete cells. And I wonder how much further the price of houses will fall. How overpriced are they?

[Darrel]

Why bother with leases when an Usufruct can be for life and does not attract the same taxes as a lease?

Because you can sell leasehold property (especially if the lease is for a reasonable number of years).

[Darrel]

Four newly built Houses close to me started life at 20m baht...

How absurd! You can buy a very nice place on the Med in France for that sum.

[LennyW]

Four newly built Houses close to me started life at 20m baht...

How absurd! You can buy a very nice place on the Med in France for that sum.

20m for a house here these days is not so strange, have a look around Pheonix/Huay Yai area - 40, 50, 70M and upwards is not uncommon.

[PattayaParent]

<snip>

My thinking is that many people simply cannot afford (mentally more often than financially) to sell at the true market level and are holding out at unrealistic prices waiting for that sucker to come along, as they do from time to time and buy their pile out from under them. <snip>.

Exactly the attitude of a few guys I know, and in the meantime the empty property gradually falls into disrepair and becomes even more unattractive at the overinflated price being asked.

[Naam]

Four newly built Houses close to me started life at 20m baht...

How absurd! You can buy a very nice place on the Med in France for that sum.

absurd is to compare "a THB 20 million home in Thailand" with "a very nice place in France" without specifying any details. that applies especially to "nice places" located at the Mediterranean where €UR 500k will buy a "hut" between Monaco and Toulon, a modest dwelling between Toulon and Montpellier and rowhouse from Montpellier all the way towards the spanish border.

none of these "nice places" will have even 25% of the living area or 20% of the comfort that a THB 20m home provides in the area Rimmer mentioned. not to talk about the french taxman who levies a fancy percentage of income tax, property tax and value added tax on goods and services which have to be taken into consideration when selecting a place to live.

let's compare apples with apples. comparing strawberries with coconuts is absurd.

edited for addendum:

i stopped counting after spending in excess of THB 25m for the construction of my house and several years making improvements. we are living in it since august 2006 and without consulting my PC or use a pocket calculator i claim that the house was fully paid for by income tax we did not pay to the taxman of our home country.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Naam

[Rimmer]

20m for a house here these days is not so strange, have a look around Pheonix/Huay Yai area - 40, 50, 70M and upwards is not uncommon.

I should add this was the builders (speculators) original asking price from new, they are all still empty even at the much reduced price. And yes LennyW you have guessed the area correctly

[manarak]

Four newly built Houses close to me started life at 20m baht...

How absurd! You can buy a very nice place on the Med in France for that sum.

absurd is to compare "a THB 20 million home in Thailand" with "a very nice place in France" without specifying any details. that applies especially to "nice places" located at the Mediterranean where €UR 500k will buy a "hut" between Monaco and Toulon, a modest dwelling between Toulon and Montpellier and rowhouse from Montpellier all the way towards the spanish border.

none of these "nice places" will have even 25% of the living area or 20% of the comfort that a THB 20m home provides in the area Rimmer mentioned. not to talk about the french taxman who levies a fancy percentage of income tax, property tax and value added tax on goods and services which have to be taken into consideration when selecting a place to live.

let's compare apples with apples. comparing strawberries with coconuts is absurd.

edited for addendum:

i stopped counting after spending in excess of THB 25m for the construction of my house and several years making improvements. we are living in it since august 2006 and without consulting my PC or use a pocket calculator i claim that the house was fully paid for by income tax we did not pay to the taxman of our home country.

spot on Naam.

there are no "very nice places" to buy in Europe for 20m baht with comparable comfort, climate, location, facilities (swimming pool, anyone?) and space.

Darrel, you may get a low-key 3 BR house without a pool in a nice spot in cold and rainy Brittany for that price, no pool though.

Oh, and be prepared to pay taxes based on the number of bathrooms, toilets and windows!

Regarding houses being overpriced, I don't think so.

Prices for quality building materials have been constantly rising.

What is really overpriced are condos for foreign ownership - so much overpriced that in fact it is obscene. There is a 50% to 100% premium compared to house prices.

Edited April 19, 2011 by manarak

[Darrel]

20m for a house here these days is not so strange, have a look around Pheonix/Huay Yai area - 40, 50, 70M and upwards is not uncommon.

I know: I've seen some. And not one of them was worth anything approaching the price they were supposedly for sale at.

20M in Thailand is absurd, 40M is doubly absurd.

[craigt3365]

20m for a house here these days is not so strange, have a look around Pheonix/Huay Yai area - 40, 50, 70M and upwards is not uncommon.

I know: I've seen some. And not one of them was worth anything approaching the price they were supposedly for sale at.

20M in Thailand is absurd, 40M is doubly absurd.

Then you've never seen some of the houses I have. Try the one next to the Golden Sands condo near The View Restaurant in NaJomtien...fantastic and worth a lot more than 40M. In Bangkok, there are many and they are really nice...most with a Benz or BMW in the garage...

[Darrel]

absurd is to compare "a THB 20 million home in Thailand" with "a very nice place in France" without specifying any details. that applies especially to "nice places" located at the Mediterranean where €UR 500k will buy a "hut" between Monaco and Toulon, a modest dwelling between Toulon and Montpellier and rowhouse from Montpellier all the way towards the spanish border.

none of these "nice places" will have even 25% of the living area or 20% of the comfort that a THB 20m home provides in the area Rimmer mentioned. not to talk about the french taxman who levies a fancy percentage of income tax, property tax and value added tax on goods and services which have to be taken into consideration when selecting a place to live.

i stopped counting after spending in excess of THB 25m for the construction of my house and several years making improvements. we are living in it since august 2006 and without consulting my PC or use a pocket calculator i claim that the house was fully paid for by income tax we did not pay to the taxman of our home country.

I lived and worked in the south of France for 33 years, in Provence. Did you? How many houses have you owned there? I can show you places for 40MB (equiv) in private valleys, constructed to state of the art building standards, with 300+sqm of living space, all well finished. Not on the sea-front, admittedly, but the ones in Huay Yai aren't either.

And just because you have spent 25MB on your house doesnt make it worth 1 Baht more than someone else might be prepared to pay for it. So it will be interesting to see how much you get for it if you sell it one day. And of course how you came by the money you used to buy it is totally beside the point. You might as well say you got it by selling drugs or guns or your mother, or by winning the lottery: it has no bearing on anything.

Even more to the point: the houses mentioned in France actually change hands on a daily basis at those prices, unlike all this Thai property which just sits there, complete with "for sale" sign.

[Darrel]

there are no "very nice places" to buy in Europe for 20m baht with comparable comfort, climate, location, facilities (swimming pool, anyone?) and space.

Darrel, you may get a low-key 3 BR house without a pool in a nice spot in cold and rainy Brittany for that price, no pool though.

Sorry, that's just nonsense. 20M Baht is 500,000 Euros. You can get a lot for that, with a pool, and in the south, not in Brittany. I know. I lived there for many years.

The climate, of course, is not comparable. Southern France has a mediterranean climate and here it is tropical.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

there are no "very nice places" to buy in Europe for 20m baht with comparable comfort, climate, location, facilities (swimming pool, anyone?) and space.

Darrel, you may get a low-key 3 BR house without a pool in a nice spot in cold and rainy Brittany for that price, no pool though.

Sorry, that's just nonsense. 20M Baht is 500,000 Euros. You can get a lot for that, with a pool, and in the south, not in Brittany. I know. I lived there for many years.

The climate, of course, is not comparable. Southern France has a mediterranean climate and here it is tropical.

You said it before me: "nonsense." There are many places in Europe where you can find something similar and actually better. More, there are countless places in South and Central America, in the tropical zone, where you can find fantastic places for that price.

[manarak]

there are no "very nice places" to buy in Europe for 20m baht with comparable comfort, climate, location, facilities (swimming pool, anyone?) and space.

Darrel, you may get a low-key 3 BR house without a pool in a nice spot in cold and rainy Brittany for that price, no pool though.

Sorry, that's just nonsense. 20M Baht is 500,000 Euros. You can get a lot for that, with a pool, and in the south, not in Brittany. I know. I lived there for many years.

The climate, of course, is not comparable. Southern France has a mediterranean climate and here it is tropical.

err... care to show me any adverts of "very nice places" in south of France?

I'm looking for a 4 BR*, approx. 500 sqm new-looking house (fully renovated is ok too), with maids quarters, living room, office, play room for the kids, snooker room and a approx. 14*7 meter pool, with en-suite bathrooms for all the bedrooms, on a minimum of 2 rai of land (approx. 2800 sqm), carport for 2 cars minimum.

That's approximatively what you can buy for 20m baht, and IT IS FULLY FURNISHED.

Over to you.

* the 4 BR house in Thailand would translate into a 9 room house in France.

Edited April 19, 2011 by manarak

[koiwaolao]

there are no "very nice places" to buy in Europe for 20m baht with comparable comfort, climate, location, facilities (swimming pool, anyone?) and space.

Darrel, you may get a low-key 3 BR house without a pool in a nice spot in cold and rainy Brittany for that price, no pool though.

Sorry, that's just nonsense. 20M Baht is 500,000 Euros. You can get a lot for that, with a pool, and in the south, not in Brittany. I know. I lived there for many years.

The climate, of course, is not comparable. Southern France has a mediterranean climate and here it is tropical.

err... care to show me any adverts of "very nice places" in south of France?

I'm looking for a 4 BR*, approx. 500 sqm new-looking house (fully renovated is ok too), with maids quarters, living room, office, play room for the kids, snooker room and a approx. 14*7 meter pool, with en-suite bathrooms for all the bedrooms, on a minimum of 2 rai of land (approx. 2800 sqm), carport for 2 cars minimum.

That's approximatively what you can buy for 20m baht, and IT IS FULLY FURNISHED.

Over to you.

* the 4 BR house in Thailand would translate into a 9 room house in France.

But in the 20 mill Thailand house you cant even drink the water! Never mind REAL popriety issues!!!