Are Houses Overpriced In Pattaya?

[tropo]

Then the prices would have to be slashed by 50% to 70%, so they are overpriced.

I disagree. If you have to reduce the price by 50 to 70 percent, then you would more than likely be reducing the cost to below new land and construction cost.

You logic would be a bit like putting high quality caviar on a MacDonalds menu and people complaining that it is overpriced because no one is buying it.

The fact that most people aren't doing what you suggest indicates that things aren't as desperate as you think.

I live in a townhouse block of 15 built on prime land. Very expensive land. They were originally purchased for between 5 and 10 million back in 2006. No owners can get close to their money back now so they remain vacant and deteriorating. My unit is the only one being rented out. I don't see fire sales. Just because no one is buying doesn't mean they are overpriced. They are worth every penny, only the owners must be patient. I believe they will double their investment in 5 - 10 years. Russian investors are the key.

[tropo]

Apparently, the following logic applies: No, not overpriced because if the seller waits 50 years he will finally get the price he wants today I wonder why it is so hard for some people to come to grips with the FACT that houses are overpriced and condos are grossly overpriced. Tick, tick, tick, time will tell.

Yeah, tick, tick, tick... time will soon tell you that you are wrong.

[manarak]

Never had you down as a dreamer Naam,that is the biggest load of bull i have ever heard ,and thats from an ex property developer.

talking about dreamers and bull. what does an "ex property developer" think of somebody who has planned and supervised the construction of his house when he sees how that chap had his pond built? perhaps feeling like a load of bull because his only experience was dealing only with suckers who allowed the developer to use chickenwire as concrete reinforcement and concrete mixture for foundations 30:1 instead 3:1 ?

does the right honourable ex property developer think that only suckers exist? my "property developer" who was the general contractor, nice chap by the way, had less technical knowledge about construction that i have in one of my pinky fingers. what was unfortunate though was that he took his 20% commission and left his main Thai contractor with a few million Baht loss out in the cold.

load of bull... my àss

looks a bit like the Atlantik Wall... built to last

Seriously, some people here write loads of bull, and it isn't Naam.

We haven't heard anything from the 500kEUR on the Med BS anymore...

it is also true that goods that aren't selling are not necessarily overpriced.

A market can very well be "dead" for several reasons: political instability, ownership issues, economic crisis (Pattaya and the Côte d'Azur do not have the same real estate buyers demographics)

[PattayaParent]

Apparently, the following logic applies: No, not overpriced because if the seller waits 50 years he will finally get the price he wants today I wonder why it is so hard for some people to come to grips with the FACT that houses are overpriced and condos are grossly overpriced. Tick, tick, tick, time will tell.

Yeah, tick, tick, tick... time will soon tell you that you are wrong.

Yes, but as you said in your own example above, they will be waiting 15 years to get the price they are asking for now!!!

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

[LaoPo]

Prices for housing dropped in many places around the world. Pattaya is not unique. My Mom lives in Vegas. Prices are at rock bottom there...there's only so far down they will go...and it's still not far enough. But prices aren't the only problem. There's no buyers!

in 2004 (before the big price hike) we sold our Florida home (lakefront) for $ 635k. yesterday i got a "Zillow" update with a price estimate of $ 236k.

Would be nice to consider to make the present owners an offer "they can't refuse".....$ 236K or € 165K is a real bargain, even to own it as a second home

LaoPo

[tropo]

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

As opposed to your economic theory that prices should be dropped lower and lower irrespective of losses in a sluggish market. If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level, those are the prices, but you judge the prices by how many people are buying.

Your theories are based on how people react in the West when they have variable mortgages and fire sale because they cannot make payments.

[Naam]

Prices for housing dropped in many places around the world. Pattaya is not unique. My Mom lives in Vegas. Prices are at rock bottom there...there's only so far down they will go...and it's still not far enough. But prices aren't the only problem. There's no buyers!

in 2004 (before the big price hike) we sold our Florida home (lakefront) for $ 635k. yesterday i got a "Zillow" update with a price estimate of $ 236k.

Would be nice to consider to make the present owners an offer "they can't refuse".....$ 236K or € 165K is a real bargain, even to own it as a second home

LaoPo

one of my friends is seriously considering buying back his former home. he lives in Germany from where it's a hopper to Orlando. but flying from Thailand to Florida without a stopover of several days in Europe is i did once the reverse route changing aircraft in Paris and Mumbai and that experience was enough for a lifetime.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

As opposed to your economic theory that prices should be dropped lower and lower irrespective of losses in a sluggish market. If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level, those are the prices, but you judge the prices by how many people are buying.

Your theories are based on how people react in the West when they have variable mortgages and fire sale because they cannot make payments.

No doubt the Thai govt. will take note of the economic reality you are discussing here and take action to correct it. The non-performing assets will eventually be taxed appropriately.

[tropo]

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

As opposed to your economic theory that prices should be dropped lower and lower irrespective of losses in a sluggish market. If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level, those are the prices, but you judge the prices by how many people are buying.

Your theories are based on how people react in the West when they have variable mortgages and fire sale because they cannot make payments.

No doubt the Thai govt. will take note of the economic reality you are discussing here and take action to correct it. The non-performing assets will eventually be taxed appropriately.

Going by the way you use "no doubt" and "FACT" in your posts, you're totally convinced the market here is f*****d for good. You're entitled to your opinion - let's leave it at that.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

As opposed to your economic theory that prices should be dropped lower and lower irrespective of losses in a sluggish market. If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level, those are the prices, but you judge the prices by how many people are buying.

Your theories are based on how people react in the West when they have variable mortgages and fire sale because they cannot make payments.

No doubt the Thai govt. will take note of the economic reality you are discussing here and take action to correct it. The non-performing assets will eventually be taxed appropriately.

Going by the way you use "no doubt" and "FACT" in your posts, you're totally convinced the market here is f*****d for good. You're entitled to your opinion - let's leave it at that.

Yes, I am convinced that prices are way too high and the market is set for a major fall. Yes, that is my opinion. I also think it is possible that the govt. will take note of what you are saying and act on it eventually. Why? Because it is not in the interests of Thai buyers who would rather deal with normal market conditions.

[tropo]

Yes, I am convinced that prices are way too high and the market is set for a major fall. Yes, that is my opinion. I also think it is possible that the govt. will take note of what you are saying and act on it eventually. Why? Because it is not in the interests of Thai buyers who would rather deal with normal market conditions.

I don't think there is anything "normal" about Pattaya as far as real estate goes. Russian investment is about to explode and you're likely to see prices go up. Get some bargains now while you still can.

There's probably not any other areas in Thailand, courtesy of so much foreign money, where such a large percentage of real estate is owned freehold. That's why you're not seeing panic selling. The whole townhouse block where I live is vacant and only one landlord is renting (out of 15 units).

[PattayaParent]

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

As opposed to your economic theory that prices should be dropped lower and lower irrespective of losses in a sluggish market. If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level, those are the prices, but you judge the prices by how many people are buying.

Your theories are based on how people react in the West when they have variable mortgages and fire sale because they cannot make payments.

The market price is determined by what people will buy at, not what sellers dream they can get.

If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level and there are no buyers, then they are overpriced.

[PattayaParent]

Yes, I am convinced that prices are way too high and the market is set for a major fall. Yes, that is my opinion. I also think it is possible that the govt. will take note of what you are saying and act on it eventually. Why? Because it is not in the interests of Thai buyers who would rather deal with normal market conditions.

I don't think there is anything "normal" about Pattaya as far as real estate goes. Russian investment is about to explode and you're likely to see prices go up. Get some bargains now while you still can.

There's probably not any other areas in Thailand, courtesy of so much foreign money, where such a large percentage of real estate is owned freehold. That's why you're not seeing panic selling. The whole townhouse block where I live is vacant and only one landlord is renting (out of 15 units).

You sound like an estate agent now.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Yes, I am convinced that prices are way too high and the market is set for a major fall. Yes, that is my opinion. I also think it is possible that the govt. will take note of what you are saying and act on it eventually. Why? Because it is not in the interests of Thai buyers who would rather deal with normal market conditions.

I don't think there is anything "normal" about Pattaya as far as real estate goes. Russian investment is about to explode and you're likely to see prices go up. Get some bargains now while you still can.

There's probably not any other areas in Thailand, courtesy of so much foreign money, where such a large percentage of real estate is owned freehold. That's why you're not seeing panic selling. The whole townhouse block where I live is vacant and only one landlord is renting (out of 15 units).

You sound like an estate agent now.

That is starting to cross my mind too. It is almost as though he has some interest in high prices! Tropo is correct about Russians, but I think they have already "been here and done that." Are we really supposed to believe the real estate hype that wants us to think Russians are somehow immune to the global economic downturn and that there are thousands of them just waiting to buy overpriced houses and condos in Pattaya and Jomtien? I find that as hard to believe as the earlier similar talk about wealthy Chinese buying up the place. The fact, as I see it and others see it, is that prices for houses and condos are way too high; there has been way too much development in relationship to demand. And what has been developed looks like something a prison guard might design (not all, but most units look that way). They are simply not worth the money people are asking for them. The "myth" that investors wanted to see did not happen and they have had ten years to make it happen; and they have pushed the myth hard! Now it is "wait and see the Russians are coming" or "wait and see the casino is coming." Hoards of wealthy Russians are not about to invade this place in the near future, especially when there are much better places near Russia (e.g., Croatia; southern Italy). And even if the "casino" is ever built, that might not do what people think. All one has to do is look at the state of the gambling market in Macau--not good. Growing numbers of people are looking for bargains in far more civilized locations than Thailand.

[tropo]

Yes, I am convinced that prices are way too high and the market is set for a major fall. Yes, that is my opinion. I also think it is possible that the govt. will take note of what you are saying and act on it eventually. Why? Because it is not in the interests of Thai buyers who would rather deal with normal market conditions.

I don't think there is anything "normal" about Pattaya as far as real estate goes. Russian investment is about to explode and you're likely to see prices go up. Get some bargains now while you still can.

There's probably not any other areas in Thailand, courtesy of so much foreign money, where such a large percentage of real estate is owned freehold. That's why you're not seeing panic selling. The whole townhouse block where I live is vacant and only one landlord is renting (out of 15 units).

You sound like an estate agent now.

So in your estimation any person who talks positively about the market is a real estate agent?

I'm not. I don't even own property. I'm a renter who gains more in a slumped market.

Edited April 21, 2011 by tropo

[tropo]

That is starting to cross my mind too. It is almost as though he has some interest in high prices! Tropo is correct about Russians, but I think they have already "been here and done that." Are we really supposed to believe the real estate hype that wants us to think Russians are somehow immune to the global economic downturn and that there are thousands of them just waiting to buy overpriced houses and condos in Pattaya and Jomtien? I find that as hard to believe as the earlier similar talk about wealthy Chinese buying up the place. The fact, as I see it and others see it, is that prices for houses and condos are way too high; there has been way too much development in relationship to demand. And what has been developed looks like something a prison guard might design (not all, but most units look that way). They are simply not worth the money people are asking for them. The "myth" that investors wanted to see did not happen and they have had ten years to make it happen; and they have pushed the myth hard! Now it is "wait and see the Russians are coming" or "wait and see the casino is coming." Hoards of wealthy Russians are not about to invade this place in the near future, especially when there are much better places near Russia (e.g., Croatia; southern Italy). And even if the "casino" is ever built, that might not do what people think. All one has to do is look at the state of the gambling market in Macau--not good. Growing numbers of people are looking for bargains in far more civilized locations than Thailand.

You've got it all wrong. Pattaya is not loooking for rich Russians who can afford real estate in the south of Italy. Pattaya is looking for the type who can afford property around the prices currently being asked in Pattaya, somewhere that is Russian friendly. You seem to forget the fact that Thailand has a tropical climate, something which neither Croatia nor Southern Italy can provide. When it's cold in Russian it's cold in Italy and Croatia. Russians would prefer a hot place to go during their winter. Somewhere to quickly defrost.

Edited April 21, 2011 by tropo

[PattayaParent]

Yes, I am convinced that prices are way too high and the market is set for a major fall. Yes, that is my opinion. I also think it is possible that the govt. will take note of what you are saying and act on it eventually. Why? Because it is not in the interests of Thai buyers who would rather deal with normal market conditions.

I don't think there is anything "normal" about Pattaya as far as real estate goes. Russian investment is about to explode and you're likely to see prices go up. Get some bargains now while you still can.

There's probably not any other areas in Thailand, courtesy of so much foreign money, where such a large percentage of real estate is owned freehold. That's why you're not seeing panic selling. The whole townhouse block where I live is vacant and only one landlord is renting (out of 15 units).

You sound like an estate agent now.

So in your estimation any person who talks positively about the market is a real estate agent?

I'm not. I don't even own property. I'm a renter who gains more in a slumped market.

But you talk positively about the market using the exact same cliches the real estate agents all rattle off parrott fashion.

[craigt3365]

That is starting to cross my mind too. It is almost as though he has some interest in high prices! Tropo is correct about Russians, but I think they have already "been here and done that." Are we really supposed to believe the real estate hype that wants us to think Russians are somehow immune to the global economic downturn and that there are thousands of them just waiting to buy overpriced houses and condos in Pattaya and Jomtien? I find that as hard to believe as the earlier similar talk about wealthy Chinese buying up the place. The fact, as I see it and others see it, is that prices for houses and condos are way too high; there has been way too much development in relationship to demand. And what has been developed looks like something a prison guard might design (not all, but most units look that way). They are simply not worth the money people are asking for them. The "myth" that investors wanted to see did not happen and they have had ten years to make it happen; and they have pushed the myth hard! Now it is "wait and see the Russians are coming" or "wait and see the casino is coming." Hoards of wealthy Russians are not about to invade this place in the near future, especially when there are much better places near Russia (e.g., Croatia; southern Italy). And even if the "casino" is ever built, that might not do what people think. All one has to do is look at the state of the gambling market in Macau--not good. Growing numbers of people are looking for bargains in far more civilized locations than Thailand.

You've got it all wrong. Pattaya is not loooking for rich Russians who can afford real estate in the south of Italy. Pattaya is looking for the type who can afford property around the prices currently being asked in Pattaya, somewhere that is Russian friendly. You seem to forget the fact that Thailand has a tropical climate, something which neither Croatia nor Southern Italy can provide. When it's cold in Russian it's cold in Italy and Croatia. Russians would prefer a hot place to go during their winter. Somewhere to quickly defrost.

Not to mention visas are really easy for them to visit here, whereas extremely difficult for most of Europe and other parts of the western world....

King Power is building that huge new duty free shop here. Who's the target audience? Russians and Chinese. Not Westerners. I would think they know a bit more than we do about the goings on around here, and if they are investing here in that huge fashion, there has to be a reason.

I just heard on TAN they are working on getting rid of the visas for citizens of China and Taiwan...the influx will be huge...

[Awohalitsiktoli]

That is starting to cross my mind too. It is almost as though he has some interest in high prices! Tropo is correct about Russians, but I think they have already "been here and done that." Are we really supposed to believe the real estate hype that wants us to think Russians are somehow immune to the global economic downturn and that there are thousands of them just waiting to buy overpriced houses and condos in Pattaya and Jomtien? I find that as hard to believe as the earlier similar talk about wealthy Chinese buying up the place. The fact, as I see it and others see it, is that prices for houses and condos are way too high; there has been way too much development in relationship to demand. And what has been developed looks like something a prison guard might design (not all, but most units look that way). They are simply not worth the money people are asking for them. The "myth" that investors wanted to see did not happen and they have had ten years to make it happen; and they have pushed the myth hard! Now it is "wait and see the Russians are coming" or "wait and see the casino is coming." Hoards of wealthy Russians are not about to invade this place in the near future, especially when there are much better places near Russia (e.g., Croatia; southern Italy). And even if the "casino" is ever built, that might not do what people think. All one has to do is look at the state of the gambling market in Macau--not good. Growing numbers of people are looking for bargains in far more civilized locations than Thailand.

You've got it all wrong. Pattaya is not loooking for rich Russians who can afford real estate in the south of Italy. Pattaya is looking for the type who can afford property around the prices currently being asked in Pattaya, somewhere that is Russian friendly. You seem to forget the fact that Thailand has a tropical climate, something which neither Croatia nor Southern Italy can provide. When it's cold in Russian it's cold in Italy and Croatia. Russians would prefer a hot place to go during their winter. Somewhere to quickly defrost.

The weather is absolutely fantastic in southern Italy and southern Croatia. It never gets that cold there, even during the winter months. The climate is semi-tropical most of the year (not hot and humid like Thailand). Real estate prices in southern Italy and Croatia are not that high if you do not insist on living on a cliff overlooking the ocean. Yes, Pattaya is looking for rich Russians to purchase property and spend money on other things. The Russians with disposable money to spend have already landed. I do not think thousands more will follow. Russians are hurting for money just like the rest of us. And, for the record, rich Russians, just like rich people all over, have almost no interest in Thailand except as a short-stay vacation destination. That is one of the major flaws in the present development plan.

[craigt3365]

The weather is absolutely fantastic in southern Italy and southern Croatia. It never gets that cold there, even during the winter months. The climate is semi-tropical most of the year (not hot and humid like Thailand). Real estate prices in southern Italy and Croatia are not that high if you do not insist on living on a cliff overlooking the ocean. Yes, Pattaya is looking for rich Russians to purchase property and spend money on other things. The Russians with disposable money to spend have already landed. I do not think thousands more will follow. Russians are hurting for money just like the rest of us. And, for the record, rich Russians, just like rich people all over, have almost no interest in Thailand except as a short-stay vacation destination. That is one of the major flaws in the present development plan.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but it gets extremely cold in winter in S. Italy and Croatia. So cold I could not even swim in the sea! Food is expensive, lodging much more expensive than here, and of course there is the visa issue...

As you well point out, what we have here are not rich "Russians", but average to upper class citizens of former Soviet bloc countries, which are starting to become prosperous. Uzbekistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Georgia, etc. Many arriving here in Utapao via charter flights.

[guzzi850m2]

The weather is absolutely fantastic in southern Italy and southern Croatia. It never gets that cold there, even during the winter months. The climate is semi-tropical most of the year (not hot and humid like Thailand). Real estate prices in southern Italy and Croatia are not that high if you do not insist on living on a cliff overlooking the ocean. Yes, Pattaya is looking for rich Russians to purchase property and spend money on other things. The Russians with disposable money to spend have already landed. I do not think thousands more will follow. Russians are hurting for money just like the rest of us. And, for the record, rich Russians, just like rich people all over, have almost no interest in Thailand except as a short-stay vacation destination. That is one of the major flaws in the present development plan.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but it gets extremely cold in winter in S. Italy and Croatia. So cold I could not even swim in the sea! Food is expensive, lodging much more expensive than here, and of course there is the visa issue...

As you well point out, what we have here are not rich "Russians", but average to upper class citizens of former Soviet bloc countries, which are starting to become prosperous. Uzbekistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Georgia, etc. Many arriving here in Utapao via charter flights.

I agree with craigt on above.

Oh by the way, the house behind mine has just been sold to a Russian couple (in the 10 mill bath range), contract signed and all.

[LennyW]

Whilst there are some houses that are definitely overpriced in Pattaya these tend to be older houses belonging to people who have no mortgage/borrowings against these properties and consequently these people will (why wouldnt they) hold out for their requested prices.

But that said, there is a lot of new, well built houses being offered with private pools, decent gardens, etc for around 25,000 bt/sqm and i would consider that to be very reasonable, that is houses mind. I cant think of anywhere you could buy a decent house for that price apart from here.

The problem with a lot of people here is that they dont know the difference between one house and another quality/size/location/finish wise, they just look at little pictures in magazines and agents windows and convince themselves from there that houses are expensive, and make blanket statements to that effect without actually knowing all the relevant details of what they are looking at.

The local Thais are buying and selling houses on a daily basis, now a lot of them do have to get mortgages against the houses they buy, but do you really think the banks would provide them with loans if property was 50, 60 or 70 % overpriced as some dreamers suggest? Definately not!!

And contrary to what some people would have you believe, there are quite a few Thais these days buying quite high priced homes, gone are the days whereby the majority of Thai buyers limited themselves to 1.5 / 2 million baht homes, not any more, quite the norm for them to be splashing out 10m + !

So to answer the OP's question "Are houses overpriced in Pattaya" i would say NO !

[Awohalitsiktoli]

The weather is absolutely fantastic in southern Italy and southern Croatia. It never gets that cold there, even during the winter months. The climate is semi-tropical most of the year (not hot and humid like Thailand). Real estate prices in southern Italy and Croatia are not that high if you do not insist on living on a cliff overlooking the ocean. Yes, Pattaya is looking for rich Russians to purchase property and spend money on other things. The Russians with disposable money to spend have already landed. I do not think thousands more will follow. Russians are hurting for money just like the rest of us. And, for the record, rich Russians, just like rich people all over, have almost no interest in Thailand except as a short-stay vacation destination. That is one of the major flaws in the present development plan.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but it gets extremely cold in winter in S. Italy and Croatia. So cold I could not even swim in the sea! Food is expensive, lodging much more expensive than here, and of course there is the visa issue...

As you well point out, what we have here are not rich "Russians", but average to upper class citizens of former Soviet bloc countries, which are starting to become prosperous. Uzbekistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Georgia, etc. Many arriving here in Utapao via charter flights.

"Extremely cold." Yes, you are being needlessly argumentative. The winters are quite mild and for most of the year the weather is fantastic. I, for one, do not mind the changing seasons.

[Naam]

The weather is absolutely fantastic in southern Italy and southern Croatia. It never gets that cold there, even during the winter months. The climate is semi-tropical most of the year

Real estate prices in southern Italy and Croatia

when was the last time you checked the weather and real estate prices in Croatia and southern Italy? Russians from the big metropolitan areas where it is freezing cold even in april want 30ºC+ when on their short holidays and they want to swim in the sea.

Dubrovnik the most southern part of Croatia has a high forecast for today of 18ºC and the real estate prices are compared to Thailand's Eastern Seaboard skyhigh. Brindisi, southern Italy forecast 21ºC.

temperature Adriatic Sea presently ~15ºC.

and we are talking now mid/end april. what are the temperatures in Croatia and southern Italy in january / february when Russians are flooding Pattaya?

next!

[Naam]

The winters are quite mild and for most of the year the weather is fantastic. I, for one, do not mind the changing seasons.

the Russians who are vacationing in tropical countries don't care whether you mind or don't mind changing seasons. i too would prefer changing seasons in Pattaya as well as a rather cool season for some months. unfortunately that is (except for some days) not reality.

[Naam]

But that said, there is a lot of new, well built houses being offered with private pools, decent gardens, etc for around 25,000 bt/sqm and i would consider that to be very reasonable, that is houses mind. I cant think of anywhere you could buy a decent house for that price apart from here.

in quite some areas of the United States distressed property sells for that price.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

The weather is absolutely fantastic in southern Italy and southern Croatia. It never gets that cold there, even during the winter months. The climate is semi-tropical most of the year

Real estate prices in southern Italy and Croatia

when was the last time you checked the weather and real estate prices in Croatia and southern Italy? Russians from the big metropolitan areas where it is freezing cold even in april want 30ºC+ when on their short holidays and they want to swim in the sea.

Dubrovnik the most southern part of Croatia has a high forecast for today of 18ºC and the real estate prices are compared to Thailand's Eastern Seaboard skyhigh. Brindisi, southern Italy forecast 21ºC.

temperature Adriatic Sea presently ~15ºC.

and we are talking now mid/end april. what are the temperatures in Croatia and southern Italy in january / february when Russians are flooding Pattaya?

next!

OK, southern Croatia, to some, might be considered a bit cold during a few winter months, but not EXTREMELY COLD. The rest of the year the weather is fantastic. Southern Italy (e.g., Sicily) is anything but EXTREMELY COLD even during the winter. I doubt even one Russian would consider southern Italy cold. In Thailand you have 10 months of extremely uncomfortable hot weather. We are not talking about Russians who come here to escape winter for two months. At least that is not what I have been talking about. I am focusing on Russians with money who want to live in Thailand long term. If you are simply talking about escaping the Russian winter, Russians can easily do that without traveling to Thailand. Rich Russians probably don't visit Thailand. And they are not thinking like you: cost of housing in Pattaya vs. Croatia vs. Italy. They could not care less. But, one thing I really like about these posts, perhaps there will not be a huge migration of Thailand expats to southern Italy and southern Croatia and Montenegro and Greece, etc. Please stay away. The area is horrible and it is FREEZING Nobody could possibly enjoy living there

[manarak]

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

As opposed to your economic theory that prices should be dropped lower and lower irrespective of losses in a sluggish market. If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level, those are the prices, but you judge the prices by how many people are buying.

Your theories are based on how people react in the West when they have variable mortgages and fire sale because they cannot make payments.

No doubt the Thai govt. will take note of the economic reality you are discussing here and take action to correct it. The non-performing assets will eventually be taxed appropriately.

errr... I hope there won't be any real estate taxes introduced, or if there are, hopefully only for real estate companies holding the estates for profit.

A tax for private owners would just widen the gap between rich and poor.

[manarak]

The weather is absolutely fantastic in southern Italy and southern Croatia. It never gets that cold there, even during the winter months. The climate is semi-tropical most of the year

Real estate prices in southern Italy and Croatia

when was the last time you checked the weather and real estate prices in Croatia and southern Italy? Russians from the big metropolitan areas where it is freezing cold even in april want 30ºC+ when on their short holidays and they want to swim in the sea.

Dubrovnik the most southern part of Croatia has a high forecast for today of 18ºC and the real estate prices are compared to Thailand's Eastern Seaboard skyhigh. Brindisi, southern Italy forecast 21ºC.

temperature Adriatic Sea presently ~15ºC.

and we are talking now mid/end april. what are the temperatures in Croatia and southern Italy in january / february when Russians are flooding Pattaya?

next!

OK, southern Croatia, to some, might be considered a bit cold during a few winter months, but not EXTREMELY COLD. The rest of the year the weather is fantastic. Southern Italy (e.g., Sicily) is anything but EXTREMELY COLD even during the winter. I doubt even one Russian would consider southern Italy cold. In Thailand you have 10 months of extremely uncomfortable hot weather. We are not talking about Russians who come here to escape winter for two months. At least that is not what I have been talking about. I am focusing on Russians with money who want to live in Thailand long term. If you are simply talking about escaping the Russian winter, Russians can easily do that without traveling to Thailand. Rich Russians probably don't visit Thailand. And they are not thinking like you: cost of housing in Pattaya vs. Croatia vs. Italy. They could not care less. But, one thing I really like about these posts, perhaps there will not be a huge migration of Thailand expats to southern Italy and southern Croatia and Montenegro and Greece, etc. Please stay away. The area is horrible and it is FREEZING Nobody could possibly enjoy living there

The Adriatic is not very warm.

I find sea water to be enjoyable starting at 25 °C.

That temperature is reached in southern half of Greece in the summer only.

But regarding these countries, I'm sorry, but I don't enjoy the people there as much as Thais.

[manarak]

Unless of course they use Thai economic theory and increase the price every year it's not sold.

In any case it still means that NOW they are overpriced.

As opposed to your economic theory that prices should be dropped lower and lower irrespective of losses in a sluggish market. If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level, those are the prices, but you judge the prices by how many people are buying.

Your theories are based on how people react in the West when they have variable mortgages and fire sale because they cannot make payments.

The market price is determined by what people will buy at, not what sellers dream they can get.

If everyone is keeping their prices at a certain level and there are no buyers, then they are overpriced.

Actually not, the market price is determined by the point at which buyer and seller meet.

Buyer's price determines the market bid, and seller's price the ask.

Just because Rolly Royce doesn't sell a lot of cars in Burma or Bangladesh doesn't mean that RR are overpriced.

When sellers and buyers don't meet, there is a bid/ask spread.

The wider the gap, the more illiquid the market.

The "fair price" is somewhere between.