Boggles The Mind

[BngkkB]

A few weeks ago I bought a Two line telephone in Paragon Department store. When I plugged the second line into the phone both lines had a Buzz sound on them. The next day I took the phone back to Paragon and explained the problem. They offered to credit my local ATM card, but it would take 3-4 weeks for the credit to go through. I asked about a Cash refund? "NO" was their answer. I wasn't worried about the money as it was only 900 Baht, but I was shocked at their policy.

The manager came over and told me that there was absolutly no way to credit my ATM card as it took 3 weeks for the transaction to go through their bank. I told him that I didn't think that it really took 3 weeks for the funds to transfer as they were deducted from my account with in seconds at time of purchase. He went into a very long explination telling me that he worked at a Bank before he became a manager at Paragon and that was the way it worked in Thailand.

Yesterday I purchased an electric shaver from Tesco Lotus. Again I used my local ATM card to make the purchase. Tried the shaver this morning and it did not give a very good shave at all. Went back to Tesco Lotus today to see if I could return it? Not really expecting them to take it back but I thought why not try? Five minutes after walking in the door I was walking out with 2,690.00 Baht in Cash. Yep they refunded my ATM purchase with cold hard cash.

Amazing Thailand

[ukrules]

I bet they put that used shaver straight back onto the shelf as well.

[NancyL]

In the U.S. we ran a business that accepted credit cards. It was fairly easy to "reverse" a transaction the same day as the original purchase. It was much more difficult to "reverse" a transaction once the credit card machine had "closed" for the day. In our case, the machine had to be hooked up to a phone line every day at midnight because it phoned in the day's purchases. That's when the day's batch "released". Maybe that explains some of the difference in the how fast you can get a refund.

That being said, when I had to do a refund after the day of the sale, it could input it into our little credit card machine and have it show up on the customer's account within a few days, not a few weeks.

[DP25]

That doesn't boggle the mind at all, I'd expect better service at Tesco

[BngkkB]

NancyL,

Yes I would understand a few days for the Bank to get the funds back into my account. But the manager, that use to work in a bank before being a manager at Paragon, insisted that it took Three weeks for Paragon to get the funds into their bank, which of course is not correct.

The point I was trying to make is that you would think that a store like Paragon would be more customer service oriented. The sales clerk didn't want to take the phone back at all in the beginning. Then they inspected it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that I didn't gut it out or something. After they agreed to refund my money the paper work started, which took another 20 minutes. The whole thing was absurd. But at Tesco they didn't even open the box. I just signed a my name to a refund slip and they handed me the CASH, no fuss no muss.

If only Paragon would adopt Tesco's customer service policy it would be a much nicer place to shop.

[daveh]

NancyL,

Yes I would understand a few days for the Bank to get the funds back into my account. But the manager, that use to work in a bank before being a manager at Paragon, insisted that it took Three weeks for Paragon to get the funds into their bank, which of course is not correct.

The point I was trying to make is that you would think that a store like Paragon would be more customer service oriented. The sales clerk didn't want to take the phone back at all in the beginning. Then they inspected it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that I didn't gut it out or something. After they agreed to refund my money the paper work started, which took another 20 minutes. The whole thing was absurd. But at Tesco they didn't even open the box. I just signed a my name to a refund slip and they handed me the CASH, no fuss no muss.

If only Paragon would adopt Tesco's customer service policy it would be a much nicer place to shop.

You see, three weeks is the amount of time they figure the customer would have forgotten about the credit to their account. Basically, it is an instantaneous transaction, but they didn't actually run the transaction yet. They do that after you call them after three weeks when you see that the credit didn't show up.

[jdinasia]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

[Semper]

NancyL,

Yes I would understand a few days for the Bank to get the funds back into my account. But the manager, that use to work in a bank before being a manager at Paragon, insisted that it took Three weeks for Paragon to get the funds into their bank, which of course is not correct.

The point I was trying to make is that you would think that a store like Paragon would be more customer service oriented. The sales clerk didn't want to take the phone back at all in the beginning. Then they inspected it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that I didn't gut it out or something. After they agreed to refund my money the paper work started, which took another 20 minutes. The whole thing was absurd. But at Tesco they didn't even open the box. I just signed a my name to a refund slip and they handed me the CASH, no fuss no muss.

If only Paragon would adopt Tesco's customer service policy it would be a much nicer place to shop.

You see, three weeks is the amount of time they figure the customer would have forgotten about the credit to their account. Basically, it is an instantaneous transaction, but they didn't actually run the transaction yet. They do that after you call them after three weeks when you see that the credit didn't show up.

[Kilgore Trout]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

Perhaps Steve should be asked to show some ID when paying with a credit card, at least that's what a responsible establishment would do; especially if the purchaser is clearly a foreigner.

[DMC1]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

Perhaps Steve should be asked to show some ID when paying with a credit card, at least that's what a responsible establishment would do; especially if the purchaser is clearly a foreigner.

And if you get a credit/ATM card from Kasikorn you can have your face on the front of the card

[scorecard]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

I certainly agree about CC fraud, in fact I've had my card number stolen three times, and every time a nightmare to get it sorted out.

On the other hand I was with a friend a few months back when he went into B Quik to get new tyres fitted to his car. Rightly or wrongly he paid (using his credit card) before the work was even started. Bottom line, they didn't have the tyres he wanted in stock and he refused to take another brand. His CC transaction was reversed instantly, no hassle whatever. He walked away with a credit slip. He has also had his numbers stolen before and he regularly checks the balance / entries on line. The credit was in fact processed instantly to his account.

Edited April 21, 2011 by scorecard

[zzaa09]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

Perhaps Steve should be asked to show some ID when paying with a credit card, at least that's what a responsible establishment would do; especially if the purchaser is clearly a foreigner.

And if you get a credit/ATM card from Kasikorn you can have your face on the front of the card

That would indicate that credit cards {with photo} act as "official" ID? This is troubling.

[GM1955]

The service I get in Thailand is exceptional, only Japan can beat it.

Then again, I don't act like I'm a superior being doing Thailand people a favor by living here.

Edited April 21, 2011 by GM1955

[WebBangkok]

I have never been asked anywhere in the WORLD for ID for my credit card purchase, well actually I have but 95% of the time I haven't.

Maybe they thought you looked dodgey and want to do a check on you. Who knows....

[GM1955]

I have never been asked anywhere in the WORLD for ID for my credit card purchase, well actually I have but 95% of the time I haven't.

Maybe they thought you looked dodgey and want to do a check on you. Who knows....

Like I would with 95% of Farangs in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

Perhaps Steve should be asked to show some ID when paying with a credit card, at least that's what a responsible establishment would do; especially if the purchaser is clearly a foreigner.

Since many banks issue "hip cards" at the time you open the account and they don't have your name on them ............ that would be not so very useful. I actually paid Kasikorn extra to make my cards all embossed with my name on them

Scorecard --- I would have no issue at all about refunding a CC purchase to the same CC it was purchased on. The time thing just simply is not the retailer's issue.

[ClockworkOranges]

NancyL,

Yes I would understand a few days for the Bank to get the funds back into my account. But the manager, that use to work in a bank before being a manager at Paragon, insisted that it took Three weeks for Paragon to get the funds into their bank, which of course is not correct.

The point I was trying to make is that you would think that a store like Paragon would be more customer service oriented. The sales clerk didn't want to take the phone back at all in the beginning. Then they inspected it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that I didn't gut it out or something. After they agreed to refund my money the paper work started, which took another 20 minutes. The whole thing was absurd. But at Tesco they didn't even open the box. I just signed a my name to a refund slip and they handed me the CASH, no fuss no muss.

If only Paragon would adopt Tesco's customer service policy it would be a much nicer place to shop.

Tesco Lotus is (at least partly) English owned with an English CEO driving home policy

Paragon is (im assuming) Thai owned driving home Thai policy.

Nuff said.

[powderpuff]

Not to mention that Tesco ate the 3% transaction fee yet refunded the customer full price. Well done Tesco.

[DMC1]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

Perhaps Steve should be asked to show some ID when paying with a credit card, at least that's what a responsible establishment would do; especially if the purchaser is clearly a foreigner.

And if you get a credit/ATM card from Kasikorn you can have your face on the front of the card

That would indicate that credit cards {with photo} act as "official" ID? This is troubling.

They had a special machine in the Carrefour/Pattaya Branch and my friend had one made with his face on the front. I haven't seen this card making/photo machine in another branch as yet.

[gregb]

The manager came over and told me that there was absolutly no way to credit my ATM card as it took 3 weeks for the transaction to go through their bank.

OK, I guess I'm confused. Did you walk away with a credit slip showing the charge reversed that day? If so, then I would accept the store is correct, and that the refund will show up on your account whenever it shows up.

If they are saying they can't give you a refund at all, then that is where I will say, "No problem. I can initiate a chargeback to your merchant account right now by filing a complaint with my credit card call center. Which would you prefer?" Only a very, very stupid merchant would prefer getting a chargeback against their account vs. issuing you the credit themselves. They need to keep their chargeback rate under 1%. I would have called the credit card company right there in the store if someone tried that with me.

Please clarify what you are saying. Did you in fact leave the defective merchandise with the store without a receipt showing the refund had been credited to your account? Or did the store give you a credit refund receipt immediately and simply try to help by warning you it could take a few weeks for the charge to work its way through the system and reappear in your account? One is a problem of the store, and the other is a problem of the credit card processor.

[Kilgore Trout]

With the sheer amount of cc fraud here, I am not surprised about a "no cash back" policy on a cc purchase. I wouldn't refund cash on a cc purchase, ever. The delay would be an issue for you to take up with your bank.

Example ... "Bob" gets his ATM card lifted by Steve. Steve doesn't know the PIN. Steve runs over to Paragon and uses Bob's card to buy something then returns it for cash. Steve now has some cash and bob contests the charge on his card and wins. The bank is now out of the cash and the store has the inconvenience of dealing with a product that Steve was "unhappy" with.

Perhaps Steve should be asked to show some ID when paying with a credit card, at least that's what a responsible establishment would do; especially if the purchaser is clearly a foreigner.

Since many banks issue "hip cards" at the time you open the account and they don't have your name on them ............ that would be not so very useful. I actually paid Kasikorn extra to make my cards all embossed with my name on them

Scorecard --- I would have no issue at all about refunding a CC purchase to the same CC it was purchased on. The time thing just simply is not the retailer's issue.

IMHO, if the bank can't be bothered to even put the card holders name on the card then any issues that result in fraud should be their problem.

[pluto_manibo]

I would have asked for 900 baht credit for any other purchase in their store...

[soundman]

The manager came over and told me that there was absolutely no way to credit my ATM card as it took 3 weeks for the transaction to go through their bank. I told him that I didn't think that it really took 3 weeks for the funds to transfer as they were deducted from my account with in seconds at time of purchase. He went into a very long explination telling me that he worked at a Bank before he became a manager at Paragon and that was the way it worked in Thailand.

What was he working as? The cleaner or the car park attendant???

Manager is taking the piss at your expense.

I have one of those machines. All (even international) CC and DC transactions enter my account the next day, & some "fuel card" such as "KTB Fleet card" & "TMB Synergy Card" accounts take two days.

And to add:

A refund to a card, within the same day of purchase, is in most cases instantaneous.