Thai, Cambodian Troops In New Border Clash

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts have been removed. Please stick to the issue of the border clash. The political rhetoric and posturing on the forum can wait for a while.

[Insight]

the country is close to civil war between red and yellow.....

after the next election

there are possible outcomes...

1. Democrat join PTP

2.coup

3.Taksin is back...............

No such thing as civil war in Thailand, red vs yellow is such an over-played card. The Thais are united by a much higher authority.

Border skirmishes, for example, may be a reason for instigating a coup before an election date is announced (if the powers that be fear a defeat for the Democrats).

I'm wondering if the border skirmish is a response from the military to the (completely bases and unsubstantiated IMO) coup rumours. Diverts attention away from Thaksin's PR push, suggests a unified army fighting a known assailant while also serving to discredit anybody associated with that assailant.

Maybe my imagination doing overtime, but it certainly distracts from the almost predictable political cat fights.

[Buchholz]

Those of us in Thailand are well aware of the ongoing factors here, but how many are aware of all the ongoing factors in Cambodia? Additionally, there are more than just today's beatings of elderly women (from the posted article) as factors that can effect their actions in this incident.

To dismiss those Cambodian factors so out of hand is attempting to paint Cambodia in an unjustified positive light.

The Thais are the clear aggressors.

At this point, that's far from clear in this incident

Their failure to accept mediation and observers merely compounds their guilt. History shows they attempted to take the temple with military force in 1956.

Are you talking about the right temple? There's been no mediation or observers discussed for this area.

As for the temples involved today, it seems they are in Thailand.

21 December 2010

AsiaViews

Thailand yesterday denied a Cambodian accusation its troops had moved closer to Ta Kwai temple, saying that was unneeded as the ruins were inside Thai territory.

Bangkok also hit back at Phnom Penh, protesting through Cambodian ambassador Ung Sean that Cambodian troops had violated Thailand's sovereignty.

The Foreign Ministry said on its website that the temple, called Ta Kabey in Cambodia, is located in Phanom Dong Rak district of Surin province. It is 13km east of Ta Muen temple.

http://www.asiaviews.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21721:reportalias2896&catid=2:regional-news-a-special-reports&Itemid=9

=============================================================

September 16, 2008

Thailand Ministry of Foreign Affairs

1.1 The Temple of Ta Kwai is an archeological site situated on the Dangrek Range within Surin Province in northeastern Thailand. It is located between the Boundary Pillars No. 21 and No. 22, some 13 kilometers to the east of the Ta Muen Temple Complex and 150 kilometers to the west of Phra Viharn Temple.

1.2 The boundary in this area is in accordance with the Treaty between Siam and France dated 23 March 1907 and the Protocol concerning the delimitation of boundaries annexed to the said Treaty, which provide for the use of the watershed on the Dangrek Range as the boundary, as well as the Procès-verbal d’abornement of 1908-1909 and 1919-1920.

1.3 The area adjacent to the Temple of Ta Kwai is part of the areas to be surveyed and demarcated by the Thai-Cambodian Joint Commission on Demarcation for Land Boundary (JBC), which was set up in 2000 to be responsible for the joint survey and demarcation of the entire stretch of the land boundary between the two countries. Based on the JBC’s agreed Terms of Reference and Master Plan, its Joint Survey Team will begin work to identify the exact location of the Boundary Pillars from No. 22 to No. 1 after its current work in Trat Province is completed.

http://kluv23.wordpress.com/tag/ta-krobey-temple/

Edited April 22, 2011 by Buchholz

[DP25]

"I think Cambodia wanted to take over temples on the border," he said.

What nonsense! Really.

I wonder if the Thais used cluster munitions again against Cambodian troops?

The temple where this spat (which again resulted in Cambodians shelling Thai towns with artillery) took place isn't Preah Vihar , it 130 km away and is clearly in Thai territory. Funny how the 'battle hardened' Cambodian soldiers keep missing and end up shelling villages

Edited April 22, 2011 by DP25

[slapout]

If the Cambodians have the same sense of directions, distance, etc to any destination, as the Thai, it is anybodies guess where either side/group are physically located.

[HappyDavid]

the country is close to civil war between red and yellow.....

after the next election

there are possible outcomes...

1. Democrat join PTP

2.coup

3.Taksin is back...............

No such thing as civil war in Thailand, red vs yellow is such an over-played card. The Thais are united by a much higher authority.

Border skirmishes, for example, may be a reason for instigating a coup before an election date is announced (if the powers that be fear a defeat for the Democrats).

I was thinking that the violence in the South could be considered a civil war in the eyes of many folks.

[dunkin2012]

the country is close to civil war between red and yellow.....

after the next election

there are possible outcomes...

1. Democrat join PTP

2.coup

3.Taksin is back...............

No such thing as civil war in Thailand, red vs yellow is such an over-played card. The Thais are united by a much higher authority.

Border skirmishes, for example, may be a reason for instigating a coup before an election date is announced (if the powers that be fear a defeat for the Democrats).

does this border clash mean sth. to the army?

coup d' etat

Edited April 22, 2011 by dunkin2012

[HappyDavid]

"I think Cambodia wanted to take over temples on the border," he said.

What nonsense! Really.

I wonder if the Thais used cluster munitions again against Cambodian troops?

The temple where this spat (which again resulted in Cambodians shelling Thai towns with artillery) took place isn't Preah Vihar , it 130 km away and is clearly in Thai territory. Funny how the 'battle hardened' Cambodian soldiers keep missing and end up shelling villages

The Cambodians are clearly targeting civilians in this case. No doubt about that.

[Buchholz]

2 Thai Soldiers Killed in Clash with Cambodia

Another Thai soldier has succumbed to injuries sustained in a gunfight with Cambodia in Panomdongrak, Surin this morning. This brings the death toll for Thailand from the incident to 2. Seven other soldiers have been injured and 1 remains in critical condition.

Thai officials have closed the Chongjom border checkpoint with Cambodia in Surin province already.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-22

[sirchai]

The sound of explosions just started again.

Anybody knows if the border in Phusing is open, to make a visa run? :jap:

[BuckarooBanzai]

The Foreign Ministry said on its website that the temple, called Ta Kabey in Cambodia, is located in Phanom Dong Rak district of Surin province. It is 13km east of Ta Muen temple.

http://www.asiaviews...eports&Itemid=9

Ta Kabey, located approximately 14.354552 103.382886 makes a lot of sense. It is about 3km from my guesstimate this morning and is likely the place of the clash.

[Scott]

A few more off-topic posts have been deleted.

As the situation at the border is fluid at this point, let's stay on topic.

As a previous poster has asked about border closures, can anybody answer about the situation?

[Buchholz]

More have died...

Map showing Thailand and Cambodia where their troops clashed with gunfire and artillery shells on Friday

(AFP Graphic)

Six dead in Thai-Cambodia border clash

BANGKOK, April 22, 2011 (AFP) - Thai and Cambodian troops traded gunfire and artillery shells on Friday, leaving six dead in a new clash that shattered a two-month lull in tensions along their disputed border.

Three Cambodian and two Thai soldiers were killed in Friday's fighting

Edited April 22, 2011 by webfact
updated/linked to Thaivisa AFP source

[tomross46]

This is another example of, you can not trust the Cambodian Kamer Rouge government. All the senior politicains were Kamer Roughe killers installed by the Vietnamese. The Cambodian soldiers are what remains of the kids that killed family members,

[Buchholz]

A injured Thai soldier is transported to a hospital near the border in Surin province April 22, 2011. Thai and Cambodian soldiers fought with rocket-propelled grenades and guns on their disputed border on Friday in a dawn clash that killed two Thai soldiers and wounded seven.

Reuters

Thai villagers are evacuated from the Thai-Cambodia border area in Surin province April 22, 2011.

Reuters

A Thai soldier is rushed to a hospital in Surin in this still image taken from video April 22, 2011.

Reuters

.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Buchholz

[mania2301]

As of 09:00 hrs this morning the Chong Chom, Kap Choeng border is closed until further notice. But things are quiet here.

[Buchholz]

six dead now...

Three Cambodian and three Thai soldiers were killed in Friday's fighting near a different group of temples over 100 kilometres away. More than a dozen others were wounded, including three Thai troops who were said to be in critical condition.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/9247515/six-dead-in-thaicambodia-border-clash/

[dunkin2012]

More have died...

Map showing Thailand and Cambodia where their troops clashed with gunfire and artillery shells on Friday

(AFP Graphic)

Six dead in Thai-Cambodia border clash

BANGKOK, April 22, 2011 (AFP) - Thai and Cambodian troops traded gunfire and artillery shells on Friday, leaving six dead in a new clash that shattered a two-month lull in tensions along their disputed border.

Three Cambodian and two Thai soldiers were killed in Friday's fighting

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4372893

Buchholz 3 Cam +2 Thai = 5 killed

where is another one more poor solider? civilian?

[ib1b4]

TIT ...quiet for ten minutes now, few villagers are leaving but the ice cream man showed up ...ice cream ma leo.... the kids run out and are happy, the adults stay scared.

I love this place and I get angry when I think about the yellow/red Bangkokians who insist on more strict action at the border temples. They sit in their offices, visit the border only when it's save and give a shit for the people living here.

fatfather

Many of us share your feelings, I hope all your family and friends are not injured by yhis madness, if you have not left your home keep your ears to the ground and be very careful.

[webfact]

Thai Army Ready to Retaliate Cambodia's Attack

The supreme commander has reaffirmed that the Thai army is ready to retaliate Cambodia's attack and assured the public about the military's measures to protect Thailand's sovereignty.

Supreme Commander General Songkitti Jaggabatara commented on the fresh border clash between Thai and Cambodian troops in Surin province, saying the Suranaree Task Force is responsible for protecting the area.

Songkitti went on to say that if the Suranaree Task Force is unable to solve the problem, the army will reinforce troops with regional and main headquarters personnel to help handle the situation.

The supreme commander also confirmed that the Thai army's stand is to protect the country's sovereignty and the Thai military is ready to retaliate attacks from Cambodian troops.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-22

[dunrudin]

"The border has never been fully demarcated because of land mines...."

I would like to helpfully suggest that helicopters are now fitted with GPS. You don't actually have to get your feet dirty.

[webfact]

PM Assures Thai Soldiers Did Not Start Border Clash

The prime minister assures that the fresh clash between Thailand and Cambodia soldiers at the border in Surin province this morning was not initiated by the Thai side.

He has assigned the Foreign Ministry to clarify this issue with the international community.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he has received a report that the gunfight between Thai and Cambodian troops close to the Ta Muen Thom and Ta Kwai temples in Panom Dongrak district of Surin province, has ended after erupting at around 5 A.M. this morning and continuing for a few hours.

He said Thai officials are investigating the details of the incident and he has ordered PM's Office Minister Ong-art Klampaiboon to oversee the well-being of locals who have been evacuated out of the area for fear of stray bullets.

Abhisit believes the clash occurred because of the close proximity of the two countries' forces along the border, which most likely led to a misunderstanding with any mobilizing of troops. However, he affirmed Thai forces did not fire first.

Deputy Prime Minister on national security Suthep Thaugsuban said he has not been given the details of the fighting yet as the army chief is in Laos on a working visit.

Suthep reckoned a misunderstanding caused the armed confrontation but he will wait for confirmation on the issue from the Second Army Region chief.

Suthep admitted tensions between Thailand and Cambodia concerning the Preah Vihear Temple might have contributed to this latest incident but assured that authorities are trying to relieve the tensions and are arranging for border talks.

Acting Government Spokesman Panitan Watanayagorn said the PM has asked the foreign minister to clarify with the international community that Thai troops did not violate Cambodian territory and only opened fire on Thai soil in response to an attack from Cambodia.

Panitan said this clarification is necessary to ensure that the incident would not affect Cambodia's planned proposal of its management plan for the Preah Vihear Temple to the World Heritage Committee meeting in June.

He added that both sides' officials in the area are holding talks while assuring that the issue should not spur Indonesia, as the ASEAN chair, to speedily send in representatives to the border area to observe the situation.

Panitan said all locals have been evacuated out of the area but he was not sure if authorities have been able to access the clash site yet.

-- Tan Network 2011-04-22

[elcent]

very strange situations developing since yesterday. TV blackout, a very unusual, strong and concentrated military exercise and now the border clash ... hmm ...

[Fookhaht]

very strange situations developing since yesterday. TV blackout, a very unusual, strong and concentrated military exercise and now the border clash ... hmm ...

Strange situations always come in triplets. No worries.

[Asa]

I was having a hard time identifying the clash location from the press releases so went out and took a compass reading on the source of the explosions I heard.

Came out with this location: 14.367927 103.410703 which should be pretty close.

Interesting that this is at a point that Google shows the border cutting pretty deeply into Thailand.

It is pretty close to the border line, 50 meters into Thailand by Google Earth. Possible an accidental case. However, heavy bombardment should not be an option in the first place, cluster bombs very bad..

[jayboy]

Abhisit's assurances would be rather more believable on the latest Cambodian border problem if the army didn't have such a terrible record of lying through its teeth, refusing international monitoring and most recently having told the Thai Foreign Minister to get lost.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts have been removed.

[Buchholz]

Thai soldiers help carry their comrade injured in a fighting with Cambodia onto a pickup truck at a village in Phnom Dongrak district of Surin province, northeastern Thailand, Friday.

AP

[happyjune]

I can't find Lat Long of Phra Viharn Temple. Can some one here supply please?

[BuckarooBanzai]

This morning I was having a hard time identifying the clash location from the press releases after hearing so many explosions to the south. I came up with a compass bearing but was a little bit off, about 3 clicks. Here is the location, as best I can derive from government sources, where the clashes took place.

Buchholz, on 2011-04-22 13:01:21, said: The Foreign Ministry said on its website that the temple, called Ta Kabey in Cambodia, is located in Phanom Dong Rak district of Surin province. It is 13km east of Ta Muen temple.

http://www.asiaviews...eports&Itemid=9