blue eyes Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) We have a piece of land with a red chanot in my wifes name next to the main road thru the village.There is a peice of property behind ours that the owner does not have direct access to from the main road.There is nothing in the chanot that grants them access across our proerty to theirs.They do have a signed letter from the previous owner to allow them access across our land to get to theirs from the main road.They can access their land by a round about way from the main road along a clong to their land without crossing ours. So the question is.Do we have to allow them to cross our land or not? They wanted to sell their land to us,at an inflated price,after they found out we had bought the land next to the main road.So now they come up with this letter.The letter is real because the previous owner is my wifes sister and forgot to tell us about the letter.The letter is about 30 years old.It was not noterized or recorded with the chanot. We are thinking about letting them have a small area 2 meters wide at the edge of our property to use as a road to access their land.It seems to me to be the best way to save face for everyone.But then again it will allow them direct access to the main road.Which will make their property worth more to a buyer.The buyer could be the local bus repair guy or pig farmer who knows. What do you think? Edited April 25, 2011 by blue eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawtier Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Do not do it....if the situation was reversed...what would they do for you ?? My guess would be they would allow you to buy that 2m wide access route for 10x the going price of the land. If it does not bother you that they access it as is via your land, allow them, but do not put it in writing and by no means do not allow it to be registered on the title as right of way. Also tell them that the access is for them and if they allow anyone else onto it, or they allow the bus company to set up shop...access will be denied. We have 8rai and the lady next door gets access to water for irrigation from our land, we have a small irrigation channel that runs from the access point to her land. She asked us to put this access right on the title deed.....no way jose. Lucky we did not too....cos some time after she told us we were not allowed to use a road that ran alongside our place, but was on her land.....not at all......so she might get a shock one day when her water gets turned off.....short term ignorant thinking is prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumball Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Normally , permission to access across your property becomes a right to access after a certain period of time making it almost a public fairway , I do not know if that applies in Thailand , make sure they access along the edge of your property just in case or you could finish up with a divided property .Not sure about this but posted anyway , do a diligent check . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Do what a Thai would do, build a wall or sell them the land at an inflated price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Do not do it....if the situation was reversed...what would they do for you ?? My guess would be they would allow you to buy that 2m wide access route for 10x the going price of the land. If it does not bother you that they access it as is via your land, allow them, but do not put it in writing and by no means do not allow it to be registered on the title as right of way. Also tell them that the access is for them and if they allow anyone else onto it, or they allow the bus company to set up shop...access will be denied. We have 8rai and the lady next door gets access to water for irrigation from our land, we have a small irrigation channel that runs from the access point to her land. She asked us to put this access right on the title deed.....no way jose. Lucky we did not too....cos some time after she told us we were not allowed to use a road that ran alongside our place, but was on her land.....not at all......so she might get a shock one day when her water gets turned off.....short term ignorant thinking is prevalent. You're very social, Nawtier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 See a lawyer right away There is a legal concept called "adverse possession " and may be applicable in this case, so for your own piece of mind find out what are your legal rights, better now than later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue eyes Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 After a little more investigation it seems that there is no letter.It also is found that the "old"woman that wishes to sell the land is not selling it but transfering title to a 30 yr old relitive girl.So it now looks like they know that the land will be worth more with the direct access to the main road.The wife now understands what is going on.No way no how will we now allow them to use our land as access!!!!!!!!!!!!!The life and times of living in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljones Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Expect them to get very nasty. Court, police, rumors, violence. Be prepared. Thais can go off their rocker, especially if a "lowlife farang" is causing them grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Normally , permission to access across your property becomes a right to access after a certain period of time making it almost a public fairway , I do not know if that applies in Thailand , make sure they access along the edge of your property just in case or you could finish up with a divided property .Not sure about this but posted anyway , do a diligent check . The OP could charge a nominal 'fee' for the right to cross his land and that should take care of public ROW issues, but make it only applicable to the current houseowner and not transferrable as a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawtier Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Told youse so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESB7 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Do what a Thai would do, build a wall or sell them the land at an inflated price. Thats the way to go!!!............if situation was reversed, this would be their actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaibruce Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 A friend of mine was in a similar position. He bought some land and before they built the house they had it surveyed. They found that what was thought to be a public road allowing vehicle access to several houses behind them was in fact mostly on his (wife's) land. If they built the wall where it should be then only foot access would be possible to those houses. I think he did what he thought was the noble thing (and perhaps to curry favour as a new resident in the village) and they donated the land to the amphur to become public road. I am sure he thought there would be some gratitude shown and subsequent good relations with the neighbours ... but oh no. What followed instead was ongoing grief due to the same neighbours burning rubbish, building too close to his fence, starting a small karaoke bar beside their block, etc. So OP (and others in this position) be a nice guy if you like but don't do it on the expectation that there will necessarily be lots of good things coming back to you in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESB7 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 A friend of mine was in a similar position. He bought some land and before they built the house they had it surveyed. They found that what was thought to be a public road allowing vehicle access to several houses behind them was in fact mostly on his (wife's) land. If they built the wall where it should be then only foot access would be possible to those houses. I think he did what he thought was the noble thing (and perhaps to curry favour as a new resident in the village) and they donated the land to the amphur to become public road. I am sure he thought there would be some gratitude shown and subsequent good relations with the neighbours ... but oh no. What followed instead was ongoing grief due to the same neighbours burning rubbish, building too close to his fence, starting a small karaoke bar beside their block, etc. So OP (and others in this position) be a nice guy if you like but don't do it on the expectation that there will necessarily be lots of good things coming back to you in return. Classic example........bet your bottom $ if it had been the other way round..NO WAY would they have donated the land...your friend basically could have held them to ransom, either by charging for access or selling the land to them...kollocks to currying favour with anyone..its a shame but thats the way it is in a country where money is numero uno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaadmutha Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Please tell me a place on earth where money isnt "numero uno" All the stuff mentioned above happens to one degree or another everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Dew Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Hi, "Eaten bread is soon forgotten" in most places in the world and in Thailand this is certainly true. Offer the whole plot for sale or rent them a strip of land on a short term basis for access, but do not give it away. Regards Foggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekingfriends Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 hi guys. great answers to the land access question . it think all bases were covered .dont give them access . they will only use it to make money .and who knows what they will do to the land then behind your home. offer to bye it and then let them stew on it . james hat yai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue eyes Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 A little up date.The old woman that owns the land behind us is an aunt on my wifes side.The property that we bouhgt was owned by my wifes sister.The land was "sold" to her sister by the aunt a long time ago.The aunt found out that we are thinking about putting a wall around the area of our land that is next to her's.That is why this is all comeing about now.Since we would not buy her land at the inflated price she is giveing it or sellling not sure which to the girl.It also seems that my wife is getting pressure to allow the crossing of same,from some family members.It looks like I am now the BAD guy in all of this."you bad,bad farang you" She has never asked to cross our land before.In fact my wife has saidin the past she would have to sell the land for cheap because she not have direct access to it.Like I said before they can acess their land with a vehical just in a round about way. Best course of action....We will allow crossing of land to only her until we build the wall but not after.Sorry the wall is in your way sweety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonsalviz Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Please tell me a place on earth where money isnt "numero uno" All the stuff mentioned above happens to one degree or another everywhere. I fail to understand why so many farang find so much fault from Thais and fail to see he inadequacies of their own country(ies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriouseats Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Dog eat Dog.. Would you let a trained dog do something he's been trained to not do? No because then he'll do it very often and won't believe you anymore when you deny him the right. Dogs do not have egos so at some point they might be trainable to go back to their old ways, thais are not. Put that wall asap, the day i have my rai's in the north, im building a huge wall, a ditch with water and piranas and putting an armed guard 24/7. If they want to make me smell burned garbage they can buy a plane, fly over and dump it by air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavefloater Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Please tell me a place on earth where money isnt "numero uno" All the stuff mentioned above happens to one degree or another everywhere. I fail to understand why so many farang find so much fault from Thais and fail to see he inadequacies of their own country(ies). I'm sure people are aware of most of the inadequacies of their own countries, and perhaps that's why they've decided to give Thailand a try, but the last time I checked the name of this forum it was called THAIvisa. As a matter of fact, the moderators even have a policy about all topics being Thailand related. It's human nature to express complaint more-so than express contentment, so that's why people use this forum to let off some steam and perhaps get a bit of sympathy (which isn't likely to happen here). Hope that helps you. I generally enjoy Thailand and Thai people, but even after several years living here off and on, the lack of consideration that Thai people show is amazing. They have faults and we have faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) See a lawyer right away There is a legal concept called "adverse possession " and may be applicable in this case, so for your own piece of mind find out what are your legal rights, better now than later You may not adversely posess land in Thailand unless you are paying the taxes and the true owner is not. Additionally, there is no such thing in Thailand as a prescriptive easement. If you give permission to someone to cross your land today you may withdraw that permission tomorrow. That is unless the 30 year old signed document grants such access in perpetuity. Because of the existance of that document I believe it is worth the time and expense to consult an attorney on the matter. edit: Reading further, I see there is no such document. Ok, good luck to the OP. Edited April 29, 2011 by lannarebirth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haveaniceday Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I was on the understanding that, if land A has permission form Land B and it is on the Land B's chanote, then it is as good as gov owned road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) I was on the understanding that, if land A has permission form Land B and it is on the Land B's chanote, then it is as good as gov owned road? I believe not. Depends on the specifics agreed. Non-use of 10 years can extinguish it. In any event should the path be blocked etc its a civil matter which may take some time and money to resolve during which landlocked. Edited May 4, 2011 by thaiwanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 They can access their land by a round about way from the main road along a clong to their land without crossing ours. You have to leave space clear each side of a klong (lam-muang....small one?) for maintenance, but it is possible to get permission to build a drive alongside or even above one incorporating piping. If this seems like an equitable scenario the grom thaa (water board) should strictly be consulted by them for permission as they may take precedence over the or bor tor. As it sounds like it's in the sticks this formality probably doesn't matter. So there is a solution if it's easy enough, but if that route is very difficult or very expensive for them I'd say it's not very friendly to deny access, at least informally (You could lease to them for a pound of rice a year). You may even offer to help them financially with the alternative route then everyone will be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 They can access their land by a round about way from the main road along a clong to their land without crossing ours. You have to leave space clear each side of a klong (lam-muang....small one?) for maintenance, but it is possible to get permission to build a drive alongside or even above one incorporating piping. If this seems like an equitable scenario the grom thaa (water board) should strictly be consulted by them for permission as they may take precedence over the or bor tor. As it sounds like it's in the sticks this formality probably doesn't matter. So there is a solution if it's easy enough, but if that route is very difficult or very expensive for them I'd say it's not very friendly to deny access, at least informally (You could lease to them for a pound of rice a year). You may even offer to help them financially with the alternative route then everyone will be OK. I take it you are Thai, or have been living here for so long you are starting to think like one. Please re read what the op says, "There is nothing in the chanot that grants them access across our proerty to theirs" "They wanted to sell their land to us,at an inflated price,after they found out we had bought the land next to the main road" Perhaps he should just hand them a tube of KY jelly, drops his pants and bend over. Why should he "offer to help them financially with the alternative route then everyone will be OK". Sounds as if he is dealing with a bunch of pikeys. An alternative solution if he really wants to piss them off is to put a spirit house slap bang in the middle of the access route, a bit like the guy in Samut Prakarn did with the 3 headed elephant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Sounds as if he is dealing with a bunch of pikeys. An alternative solution if he really wants to piss them off is to put a spirit house slap bang in the middle of the access route, a bit like the guy in Samut Prakarn did with the 3 headed elephant. I have come across basic animalistic greed in the form of honourless price-gazumping a couple of times when Thai villagers are dealing with farang. That's not always the case and it's not the case here. Although the poster thinks they asked a high price, that's his opinion and they have every right to ask what they choose. What's more whether it was fully legitimised or not they were given an easement to cross his land and the poster knows it. To follow your advice would be to bring oneself to the level of those you despise which presumably would make one equally despicable. I would favour just a little sensible generosity in a village where I chose to live my life, and I suggested helping with any alternative route along the lam-muang satarana because it might be very much preferable to them crossing one's own land. I'll stick with the advice. I've never had any dealings with pikeys. What are they like? Are you in the British National Party? Edited May 6, 2011 by cheeryble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Do what a Thai would do, build a wall or sell them the land at an inflated price. Ah I see it's not just pikeys who all act the same as each other..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogy Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Hi Dumball, Interested in your comment about the land area becoming a right of access property and understanding if this actually does apply in Thailand or not ? I don't see any answers in this thread about this. We have a similar situation where our sub-plot is not fenced off and there are 2 houses using it as a short cut access route to their house - instead of going around the full perimeter of the overall plot.. If anyone knows if right of access can become an issue in Thailand I'd appreciate any input. Thanks Normally , permission to access across your property becomes a right to access after a certain period of time making it almost a public fairway , I do not know if that applies in Thailand , make sure they access along the edge of your property just in case or you could finish up with a divided property .Not sure about this but posted anyway , do a diligent check . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 The simple answer is NO. If the land is yours then ether sell them some land for easy access, at your price if thats what you want. But DON'T go down the road of free use, it will grow into a monster of a problem. Start as you intend to go on, remember, he first asked you to buy his land at an inflated price, sounds like he needs a lesson. If it was me I would of already have built a nice wall or ditch and installed gates, that would of sent the message that you have no interest in being bullied into submission, he has another way in, you are not stoping him going to his land. You could also put in an offer for his land as it is hard to get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Do what a Thai would do, build a wall or sell them the land at an inflated price." Ah I see it's not just pikeys who all act the same as each other..... For someone who claims not to know what a pikey is you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about them. You may well know them as, trailer (single or double wide) trash, bogan, or in Thailand as ban nok. The following links may aid you, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bogan http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pikey http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Pikey Some of the more recent land grabs in Thailand, Phuket, Krabi and Khao Yai spring to mind would indicate the practice cuts all across all social barriers, as you say, '' its not just pikeys who all act the same'' , it almost seems to be a national pass time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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