Rubber Trees

[thoongfoned]

wifes been a tax payer for 6 years now farming the pigs. the local ampor also collects their tax once a year, invironmental stuff plus area of cover farm buildings.... also now we have to submit all wages we pay out, outside of family, to the tax office once a year. before it was only if the person got more than 120,000 ish baht per year, there is also talk about workers rights, paided holiday, maternity, sick time the list goes on, like having a business of any scale back home, but here you have many people to to one persons job so it takes even longer to get things checked out.... yes i would say that things are a changing regarding tax/workers rights..... but your money still goes further here than back at home. 

i agree my wife has alot beter understanding of how things work/what works and get done here than i...... after all it was my idea to do the rubber trees...5555

Edited November 20, 2017 by thoongfoned

[scotbeve]

wifes been a tax payer for 6 years now farming the pigs. the local ampor also collects their tax once a year, invironmental stuff plus area of cover farm buildings.... also now we have to submit all wages we pay out, outside of family, to the tax office once a year. before it was only if the person got more than 120,000 ish baht per year, there is also talk about workers rights, paided holiday, maternity, sick time the list goes on, like having a business of any scale back home, but here you have many people to to one persons job so it takes even longer to get things checked out.... yes i would say that things are a changing regarding tax/workers rights..... but your money still goes further here than back at home. 
i agree my wife has alot beter understanding of how things work/what works and get done here than i...... after all it was my idea to do the rubber trees...5555

Rubber was great when there was the consortium of 3 countries: TH, MY, and Indo. Would've been a good profit if the govt didn't "change". (really loathe dictatorships....). We are farang. No matter how many years one stays here... There will always be some aspects of Thaidom where we are not allowed to participate in. 36 years here already... I am the uncle of the district... 55555

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[cobbler]

Scot dont think any of us will ever get it. Then again i dont think most thais get it either,[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. I remember the price crashed during the financial crisis or somewhere around there. This was just after the change of government.
Ying luk borrowed 10billion bart to pay a guaranteed 100bert per kilo for yang,sheet . Not 1 person we know from our area in bangsaphan got it,and its a mainly yang area. Locals just figured it was a thing for there mates. TIT type of thing. Thinking now about wat james collister said,it was a supply and demand thing more than a government thing.. so who knows,. Big boys games we dont know.


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[IsaanAussie]

Scotbeve, you may well have a very good point here. You have at least got me thinking about the growth of ASEAN, the success of Thai Auto enterprises as opposed to their neighbours, and in particular rubber usage here against a steadily increasing Baht valuation. Government of any colour or design will listen to their major employers and exporters. Especially when the China or India cards are played.

 

[IsaanAussie]

Cobbler, Big Boys games?......abso-bloody-lutely mate. 

[IsaanAussie]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/01/southeast-asia-rubber-boom/ 

Interesting read guys.

[grollies]

Just got back from Laem Mae Phim. On the way down, cross-country, lots and lots of rubber trees being felled. Some old, quite a lot of it youngish.

[CLW]

I was told by one of my professors that there is a new research project going on about exporting wood pellets to Japan. He was talking about 500 Mio Ton total volume of the GtG contract. Center of the facility is located in south of Thailand due to the availability of cut rubber trees.

[thoongfoned]

On 19/11/2560 at 7:07 PM, grollies said:

I'm with Scot on this. Removing 250 4 y/o trees to make room for a (hopefully) more profitable project.

just my thoughts...... why not fence the 3-4 rai off and get more layers in, sort of free range, keep the weeds down and they can feed the trees-land with their poo. .. shame to take the trees out just because of the low price at the mo.

any new project will cost ie dig the trees out,re plant, find new market ect...

the land that the wife had dug out a couple of years ago 20 plus rai, to me looks like it could have done with a rest for a year or more because now its the secound season-planting of sugar cane and this lot still looks stunted-weak-small, the field next door looks about right for this area and has been managed-planted with same stock.vits ect..

still got more than 10 rai of stumps to dig out but dont think the cane farmer wants to work the land- he also has the macro,tractors and lorries to make a good job of it. 

[thaiguzzi]

21 hours ago, cobbler said:

noyce. Jack of all trades. Jasmin rice is 18,000 per ton as opposed to 7000 per ton for plain rice. Sticky rice is even better. So are the outgoings higher for the more expensive stick and jasmin rice? So at the end of the day you still have not much profit? Not talking about the price of buying the seed,as after 1st harvest,you own the seed.
I know the guys round Sukhothai get 700 kg per rai of plain rice. Is sticky rice less weight after harvest per rai or still about 700 kg per rai?
Even better,any idea on expenses?
I feel its like any type of farming. You need volume.
Open to your ideas.
Cheers cobbler

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A LOT of pissed off rice farmers around here. Getting 5000 baht per ton. 'kin ridiculous.

This country needs this current govt out - sharpish!

[scotbeve]

Scot dont think any of us will ever get it. Then again i dont think most thais get it either,[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. I remember the price crashed during the financial crisis or somewhere around there. This was just after the change of government.
Ying luk borrowed 10billion bart to pay a guaranteed 100bert per kilo for yang,sheet . Not 1 person we know from our area in bangsaphan got it,and its a mainly yang area. Locals just figured it was a thing for there mates. TIT type of thing. Thinking now about wat james collister said,it was a supply and demand thing more than a government thing.. so who knows,. Big boys games we dont know.


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Malaysia and Indo prices went up as well during the high price period. The consortium was going to grow in a OPEC-type-of-way. We fell for it... like any commodity, they all fluctuate. This downturn is a long/ going to be a long one. Teak trees: made a profit but not what I expected... too many outreached palms along the way with 12 (yes, 12!!!) Govt agencies !!! [emoji21]

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[scotbeve]

We're not removing any trees on any of our land. That's at the buyers' discretion.

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[scotbeve]

Malaysia and Indo prices went up as well during the high price period. The consortium was going to grow in a OPEC-type-of-way. We fell for it... like any commodity, they all fluctuate. This downturn is a long/ going to be a long one. Teak trees: made a profit but not what I expected... too many outreached palms along the way with 12 (yes, 12!!!) Govt agencies !!! [emoji21]

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And... No. I didn't grease any of those palms.

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[thoongfoned]

1 hour ago, scotbeve said:

Malaysia and Indo prices went up as well during the high price period. The consortium was going to grow in a OPEC-type-of-way. We fell for it... like any commodity, they all fluctuate. This downturn is a long/ going to be a long one. Teak trees: made a profit but not what I expected... too many outreached palms along the way with 12 (yes, 12!!!) Govt agencies !!!

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in indonesia the teak plantations used to all be government owned-controlled, 50 years growing times, in the last 20 or so years private peoples have moved-bought into it. the processing of the tree into this and that is where the money is, could never get a price on the trees in the ground but looking at all the lumber around the cost was low, because the end product ie table, chair, bed, was cheap. in burma the cost was even lower, and of better quality.

when i looked into exporting wood "items" from thailand i was told the box would have to be inspected before loading and a tax paid, could not get info on the amount of tax, just pot luck i guess, hence i did no business in thailand...

[thoongfoned]

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

A LOT of pissed off rice farmers around here. Getting 5000 baht per ton. 'kin ridiculous.

This country needs this current govt out - sharpish!

ahhhh, the village guy that buys alot of rice around here usually stock piles his rice until after songran, then slowly takes it into town  and sells. this year he told me he is selling it on the next day.... 6 baht a kg was what he said the other week, maybe less now then?

[grollies]

19 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/01/southeast-asia-rubber-boom/ 

Interesting read guys.

Interesting. Two years old. What would be more interesting is if the author re-visited those people today. I'll bet Somchai hasn't managed to keep up the repayments on his new truck.

[IsaanAussie]

I came here in 1999 as the Ozzie Regional Automotive Trade Commissioner in BKK at the Embassy. Sat through the FTA, Asean and Apec deals and fed info to the Trade Minister and was not listened to. Shit happens. Now many friends have dollars and years with diminishing prospects of any return. As is always the answer here "Up to you"

[thoongfoned]

17 hours ago, grollies said:

Interesting. Two years old. What would be more interesting is if the author re-visited those people today. I'll bet Somchai hasn't managed to keep up the repayments on his new truck.

i bet he taps his own trees so the returns would still be ok at the 20 ish baht kg... if not there is always the little blue pills to sell, if its like the wifes area supply can not keep up with demand....

[thaiguzzi]

We get weighed and paid out tomorrow, after delivery to the auction this morning.

Just found out the winning bid was 18.95 baht per kg for cup.

Worst price since Jan 2016.

We will be going over to a 55/45 split with the tappers tomorrow...

The only good thing is this is "prime time" for tapping up here - production figures are way up. If this was rainy season, mid July or similar, at those prices, tappers would down tools and we'd shut the plantations down. Nov-Dec-Jan we'll keep going.

Might go back to the UK in the new year and get a job....

 

[scotbeve]

scott, sounds like you have been busy..... can you give me idea on the price, say per tree ish what the teak returned for you, the trees were about 25 years old if i remember right?
with what you have learned through farming here, would you farm again if you could turn the clock back?

Nah dude, I definitely wouldn't do it again...

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[cobbler]

Scott i feel u r the really smart 1 here. Cashing almost everything in. According to my very astute wife is probably the best thing to do. The way the country is headed is not good. Look at any country run for too long by a military.
My wife has engineers with great qualifications working in high paid positions, these people havnt had a payrise in 3 years. Price of everything going up.
Be very careful and aware,things could be going to get a lot tougher. It may be wise to cash major assets in and be ready to make a nasty decision to stay or leave. Going back to the west isnt a great idea,but neither is living in a Zimbabwe style country.
The puppeteer if u know who im talking about has a house in germany,and is ready to bailout at any time. I cant say the name as ill be kicked off tv.
Im not trying to scare u guys just give an opinion based on knowledge of people i highly respect. Forewarned is forearmed.
Take care guys.

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[Mosha]

Nah dude, I definitely wouldn't do it again...

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I don't think any of us would. Oh for a crystal ball in 2003.

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[Mosha]

Scott i feel u r the really smart 1 here. Cashing almost everything in. According to my very astute wife is probably the best thing to do. The way the country is headed is not good. Look at any country run for too long by a military.
My wife has engineers with great qualifications working in high paid positions, these people havnt had a payrise in 3 years. Price of everything going up.
Be very careful and aware,things could be going to get a lot tougher. It may be wise to cash major assets in and be ready to make a nasty decision to stay or leave. Going back to the west isnt a great idea,but neither is living in a Zimbabwe style country.
The puppeteer if u know who im talking about has a house in germany,and is ready to bailout at any time. I cant say the name as ill be kicked off tv.
Im not trying to scare u guys just give an opinion based on knowledge of people i highly respect. Forewarned is forearmed.
Take care guys.

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He was there until about 6 weeks ago. Many of our friends don't know that, including my missus.

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[cobbler]

Mosha are you talking about the puppeteer? If so, Yes hes got a kid there and another mrs. Theres been many pics on thai websights. Many have been shut down due to the nature of the posts,pics ect. Deffinately not the type of pics a person in that position would be proud of. One would expect more class,but apparently not to be.
I asked my mrs if they were photo shopped but she swears they not.
Its very obvious thais have no respect for this 1. This really worries me,when it comes to security of the country.


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[scotbeve]

Scott i feel u r the really smart 1 here. Cashing almost everything in. According to my very astute wife is probably the best thing to do. The way the country is headed is not good. Look at any country run for too long by a military.
My wife has engineers with great qualifications working in high paid positions, these people havnt had a payrise in 3 years. Price of everything going up.
Be very careful and aware,things could be going to get a lot tougher. It may be wise to cash major assets in and be ready to make a nasty decision to stay or leave. Going back to the west isnt a great idea,but neither is living in a Zimbabwe style country.
The puppeteer if u know who im talking about has a house in germany,and is ready to bailout at any time. I cant say the name as ill be kicked off tv.
Im not trying to scare u guys just give an opinion based on knowledge of people i highly respect. Forewarned is forearmed.
Take care guys.

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Our property sales have been on the books for several years now. One of the plots is in the village and we sub-divided and sold a few plots.
No...The LOS is now a.... well.... country gone back to medieval days with nobody driving the runaway carriage. Economy is the worst I've ever seen it. And the health / mental state of the populace has gone to a dangerous place. No.... sell up and deal with the bucket list is the way to go methinks.

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[grollies]

On 20/11/2017 at 10:39 PM, CLW said:

I was told by one of my professors that there is a new research project going on about exporting wood pellets to Japan. He was talking about 500 Mio Ton total volume of the GtG contract. Center of the facility is located in south of Thailand due to the availability of cut rubber trees.

I can believe that. The price for eucalyptus is good at the moment. A new weigh-in collection depot just opened nearby. Everyone cutting and re-planting. Some rubber round here going down but also trees that are way too small are being tapped.

[grollies]

On 20/11/2017 at 6:59 PM, cobbler said:

Thinking now about wat james collister said,it was a supply and demand thing more than a government thing.. so who knows,. Big boys games we dont know.

And the number one top export for 2017 to Oct is..........(drum roll please)..... you guessed it...... rubber products, up 52% on last year (source: Bangkok Post).

 

I don't know what to make of the statement that rubber processors can't make a profit when automotive growth in China, Japan, US, etc is up around 5% on average.

 

The creation of the 'cartel' in June this year of the 5 biggest rubber processors was supposed to stabilize prices and that's what they've done here in Thailand...at the prices we're seeing now. Big boys influence yes, definitely.

 

When @thaiguzzi is thinking of going back to the UK to look for work, that doesn't instil confidence.

[grollies]

2 hours ago, scotbeve said:

And the health / mental state of the populace has gone to a dangerous place

You got that right, we've just bought a .38 S&W on advice of police friend. Neighbouring tapioca depot has a pump-action and Czech 9mm. To mis-quote @cobbler, fore-armed is forewarned.

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, grollies said:

I can believe that. The price for eucalyptus is good at the moment. A new weigh-in collection depot just opened nearby. Everyone cutting and re-planting. Some rubber round here going down but also trees that are way too small are being tapped.

Prices for cup are ranging from 15-18 baht depending on where and to whom you sell.

Yet still they are opening new trees here that are 5-6 y/o with a ridiculous diameter. 2 years too young and 20 cms too small....

[cobbler]

Good coments guys. Be very careful with your decisions regarding future anything in thai untill at least next 2,3 years.

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