Rubber Trees

[VNRubber]

We live half way between bangkok and phuket , at bangsaphan . 2 , 3 year old trees go for about 110k bart per rai . 6 year old trees up to about 12 year old trees r about 120k to 150 k bart per rai . Thailand has different land registration papers . So this varies the price also . Also if its mountain land its cheaper , by about 20 % . This is ball park figures . Just to give you an idea . If close to town it will be deerer than further away . Same maybe in vn . Really want to go to vn 1 day . Wat the gov like to deal with there?

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Thanks Cobbler for sharing, so the land prices are similar between the countries. 150k baht/Rai= US$4687 x 6.25 = US$29293 per hectare (1ha=6.25rai) Government here is shit to deal with, paperwork are ridiculous, especially for foreigners...I'm a Vietnamese national so a tad easier. My area is more expensive because of the new damp, so better access to water, but no electricity though. Come Cobbler, I'll show you around.

Edited August 4, 2014 by VNRubber

[cobbler]

Fezzy If u r asking if somebody from our area wants to buy yang in issan area. Straight answer is . Impossible .

I gave the best answer i could , but ok .Ball park figure is 180k per rai , give or take 100 to 120k per rai . There u go . Cant nail it down more than that without a full page explanation .if you r looking to buy yang down here , tell me exactly what you want and I can answer better .

Cheers Cobbler

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Edited August 4, 2014 by cobbler

[cobbler]

Fezzy if I was in your area id farm a mix of bananas namwa , frogs do well there dont need much land , grow a good strain of mangoe easy to sell to china only harvest 1 time 1 year . Mixed farming is deffinately the way to go .1 thing collapses u still have 2 more ,

Number 1 rule is , only grow wat grows in your area

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Edited August 4, 2014 by cobbler

[fezzy]

Hey Cobbler mate , dont know how i tie into this conversation , i think you've replying to the wrong person mate all good ,

my lands already full up of yang, yam and sometimes corn . Not a spare sqm anywhere.

Cheers

Fezzy

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[cobbler]

Too many leos while reading thai visa . Igleow 555

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[fezzy]

Too many leos while reading thai visa . Igleow 555

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Love your work champ . My favorite beer up here too .Still raining down your way .

[cobbler]

Yes mate off and on . Still averaging 17 taps per month , for wat its worth . Your name fezzy , my brain fuzzy .

We were sitting in this spot 1km from our house haveing a nice cool leo this afternoon . Its kinda gone on from there . Burrrrrrrrp

Cheers Cobbler

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[fezzy]

Yes mate off and on . Still averaging 17 taps per month , for wat its worth . Your name fezzy , my brain fuzzy .

We were sitting in this spot 1km from our house haveing a nice cool leo this afternoon . Its kinda gone on from there . Burrrrrrrrp

Cheers Cobbler

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Looks very inviting and no one can blame you for sucking back on a nice cool Leo or three, I would of been floating out there wiyyth my esky full of Leos and numkang . Bahaha . Cobbler you an Aussie ?

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[cobbler]

Shit no mate im <deleted>€in thai thai mate

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[cobbler]

U must be rich fezzy u can afford an eski. Shit mate we can only afford watever amount of beens we sell in the morning . But still beets living with all those man hating ozy women bra burning lezos . Um is this off topic? 55555 burrrrrrrp

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[kolohe]

Sounds like it's Leo night for everyone! LOL

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[cobbler]

Ok come on bring your eski , u rich people 555

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[cobbler]

My name at the local shop 2km away from the house is mr leo . Very polite these southern folk here . 555 I guess they can pronounce it better .

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[thaiguzzi]

Sounds like it's Leo night for everyone! LOL

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No. Odd one out. I drink Chang. With lots of ice. In a glass.

[VNRubber]

Fezzy if I was in your area id farm a mix of bananas namwa , frogs do well there dont need much land , grow a good strain of mangoe easy to sell to china only harvest 1 time 1 year . Mixed farming is deffinately the way to go .1 thing collapses u still have 2 more ,

Number 1 rule is , only grow wat grows in your area

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Love the idea...but other than rubber there is nothing else but tapioca, peppers and cashews in my areas. No monarchy in VN, any new fruit crops or veggies would be new ventures...I have now excess of 3.5 ha bare land under the power lines (500kv), I'm looking around for ways to grow banana on it. I may try 1000 sq metres first, see how it turns out?

[missjacqui]

Hi all,

New to this forum and happy to know all of you.

Will be planting 2000 trees within 1 week, I still have to confirm the order.

Property is located at Nongbualumphu.

Specie 408 was offered to me at 40THB per tree

Specie 251 was offered at 20THB per tree.

I also heard about the specie 3001 and specie 2025

Any advise which specie to plant and why?

What about production/productivity?

I heard that some specie could grow quicker and means can be tapped quicker (5years?)

Really appreciate your advise.

Jacquie

Edited August 4, 2014 by missjacqui

[cobbler]

Mate . Dont start . U will b sorry . Grow bananas . Or sugar cane . Go to your kings project in your area and ask them , wat grows best in your area . If u go ahead and plant rubber now , remember me in 6 or 7 years from now . Because thats when you will know u madd a mistake , but by then you will have allready lost alll that money . Believe me .I kno what im talking about

Thaiguzzi is your man for information on strains of rubber trees . I know nothing of this .

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Edited August 4, 2014 by cobbler

[cobbler]

Fezzy if I was in your area id farm a mix of bananas namwa , frogs do well there dont need much land , grow a good strain of mangoe easy to sell to china only harvest 1 time 1 year . Mixed farming is deffinately the way to go .1 thing collapses u still have 2 more ,

Number 1 rule is , only grow wat grows in your area

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Love the idea...but other than rubber there is nothing else but tapioca, peppers and cashews in my areas. No monarchy in VN, any new fruit crops or veggies would be new ventures...I have now excess of 3.5 ha bare land under the power lines (500kv), I'm looking around for ways to grow banana on it. I may try 1000 sq metres first, see how it turns out?

only advise I can think to give you is to be sure youf area doesnt have any seed bananas within 300 meters of your bananas. If there are seed bananas within 350 meters of your bananas you need to put bags on your flowers to avoid your bananas being infected . Those big black seeds inside your bananas will break your teeth and prevent you being able to sell your bananas .

Good luck . Cheers Cobbler

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[missjacqui]

Thanks Cobbler for the quick reply.

Really nice of you.

So far, advantage with rubber plantations is that your property value also increases.

With yearly planted crops like cassava sugar etc... I believe that the property could not be sold later at higher price because your land is sold as an empty land.

I checked selling price of properties with rubber and other crops and difference between the selling price is clearly different.

Moreover to which low rubber price can go? I believe not indefinitively because tappers will stop to tap and go working elsewhere.

From my belief, we are arriving nearby a bottom price.

We had the opposite 4-5 years ago (at 150THB) when everyone actually wanted to plant rubber.

Do not hesitate to let me know if you do not think so!

Last year every one was planted sugar!!!

Thaiguzzi, reading some of your past posts, it seems indeed interesting to know your opinion on my 2 posts (*2596 and this one) if you have some time.

Is it also possible to speak by phone or to meet for a coffee? I am currently and for the next 2 days at Udonthani where you seem to be as well.

Thank you!

Jacquie

[thaiguzzi]

Pretty much all the trees up here in Northern Isaan are Rimm 600 or RIT 251. The numbers are correct, maybe i got the letters arse about tit (wrong way round). Do not believe all the stuff you here about these new strains. I personally do not believe you will get a good tree of any variety that can be tapped at 5 years old, and will have good output and a long life. 251 has a greater output/production than 600, but they grow less straight and are more susceptible to falling over/being snapped in half in high winds. 251 is a Malaysian variety ideally suited to the south, although there is a fair amount up here, and they do yield very well. Just fall over easy in storms.

Regarding land, i agree with Cobbler, and i would not plant rubber now. As previous posts, you're too late, missed the boat etc. Rubber land is only more expensive than sugar/tapioca, because it's either earning/will earn, or people can chop mature trees down for lumber/timber at a better price than Eucalyptus. 3-4 years ago, when prices were high, we had a bunch of Southerners come up here and they were buying ready to go plantations at 200k per rai. That is now over. 125-150k being the norm. I hear in Bung Khan, as much as 175-185k per rai. If you read previous posts, even if demand picks up, there is a hell of a lot of new rubber coming on tap in the next 3 years all over SE Asia and Africa. Oversupply is the key word.

Mike.

[thaiguzzi]

Re rubber plantations; yeah, 3 years ago people were falling over themselves to buy a ready to go 6-7 year old plantation. Now you (me) will not find a buyer for the price you (i) want. If somebody came tomorrow to buy my main plot (4 seasons tapped) for 160-165k per rai i'd take it, even though i'd really want 185-190k per rai. Normal land here ie sugar/tapioca goes for up to 100k. Don't forget 10 years of blood, sweat, tears and lots of money in that price difference.

[missjacqui]

Pretty much all the trees up here in Northern Isaan are Rimm 600 or RIT 251. The numbers are correct, maybe i got the letters arse about tit (wrong way round). Do not believe all the stuff you here about these new strains. I personally do not believe you will get a good tree of any variety that can be tapped at 5 years old, and will have good output and a long life. 251 has a greater output/production than 600, but they grow less straight and are more susceptible to falling over/being snapped in half in high winds. 251 is a Malaysian variety ideally suited to the south, although there is a fair amount up here, and they do yield very well. Just fall over easy in storms.

Regarding land, i agree with Cobbler, and i would not plant rubber now. As previous posts, you're too late, missed the boat etc. Rubber land is only more expensive than sugar/tapioca, because it's either earning/will earn, or people can chop mature trees down for lumber/timber at a better price than Eucalyptus. 3-4 years ago, when prices were high, we had a bunch of Southerners come up here and they were buying ready to go plantations at 200k per rai. That is now over. 125-150k being the norm. I hear in Bung Khan, as much as 175-185k per rai. If you read previous posts, even if demand picks up, there is a hell of a lot of new rubber coming on tap in the next 3 years all over SE Asia and Africa. Oversupply is the key word.

Mike.

Hi Mike,

Agreed about "missing the boat".

Agreed also about lots of supply coming in.

So far at 125-150k per rai, you still make small profit on the land after planting and taking good care of it.

And you will earn revenue, waiting for "the new boat".

IMHO, I believe that you should do same as in the South, it means planting few different crops (they do it with palm oil for other reasons), so you share the risk.

But real business is rubber. You capitalize on your investment.

As you could see a few years ago, the rubber price did not go up because of supply and demand, it just went up because of....market inefficiencies. so it will happen again on up and down sides. Maybe it is the right time to buy on the down side, as I noted more and more sellers in the market. Just wait for the good time! Look at the Nasdaq or S&P between year 2000 and now.

If land price goes up (which I believe is the case here), all properties will go up.

You get a leverage if rubber price also goes up, not true for other short term crops.

I suggest to divide your property into few crops : rubber (long term => "blue chips"), sugar, cassava (current revenue => "bonds") and an other speculative one (high revenue or nothing => "small caps"). This analysis is purely financial and that is what we are talking about by guessing future assets commodities pricing (that is my background in Europe and also a few years ago I used to work for Thai banks).

Your opinion is welcome.

Hope that we can meet later. Can you text me your mobile number?

Jacquie

[missjacqui]

Re rubber plantations; yeah, 3 years ago people were falling over themselves to buy a ready to go 6-7 year old plantation. Now you (me) will not find a buyer for the price you (i) want. If somebody came tomorrow to buy my main plot (4 seasons tapped) for 160-165k per rai i'd take it, even though i'd really want 185-190k per rai. Normal land here ie sugar/tapioca goes for up to 100k. Don't forget 10 years of blood, sweat, tears and lots of money in that price difference.

After some investigations, empty lands (or with sugar or cassava) are selling at 70k per rai.

Rubber plantations being tapped are selling at 120k per rai.

Chanote of course.

J.

[missjacqui]

Pretty much all the trees up here in Northern Isaan are Rimm 600 or RIT 251. The numbers are correct, maybe i got the letters arse about tit (wrong way round). Do not believe all the stuff you here about these new strains. I personally do not believe you will get a good tree of any variety that can be tapped at 5 years old, and will have good output and a long life. 251 has a greater output/production than 600, but they grow less straight and are more susceptible to falling over/being snapped in half in high winds. 251 is a Malaysian variety ideally suited to the south, although there is a fair amount up here, and they do yield very well. Just fall over easy in storms.

Regarding land, i agree with Cobbler, and i would not plant rubber now. As previous posts, you're too late, missed the boat etc. Rubber land is only more expensive than sugar/tapioca, because it's either earning/will earn, or people can chop mature trees down for lumber/timber at a better price than Eucalyptus. 3-4 years ago, when prices were high, we had a bunch of Southerners come up here and they were buying ready to go plantations at 200k per rai. That is now over. 125-150k being the norm. I hear in Bung Khan, as much as 175-185k per rai. If you read previous posts, even if demand picks up, there is a hell of a lot of new rubber coming on tap in the next 3 years all over SE Asia and Africa. Oversupply is the key word.

Mike.

Thank you Mike,

Some new plantings go for specie408.

Price per tree is 40THB per tree instead of 20 THB for specie251.

The specie 408 is a new clone.

Any opinion?

J.

[cobbler]

O well , just remember this day ,.

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[kolohe]

I've never heard of 408. The latest one I know of are 2025 and 3001.

Theoretically they are supposed to mature for cutting faster. Their output seems like it's supposed to be higher than 251 but not by very much. Additionally, their rubber producing lives seem to be much shorter than 251/600. However, I don't think anyone knows for sure.

We decided to try some 3001 in a small patch next to the house just to see. They are just barely over two years old so still a ways to go before the truth is known.

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[missjacqui]

I've never heard of 408. The latest one I know of are 2025 and 3001.

Theoretically they are supposed to mature for cutting faster. Their output seems like it's supposed to be higher than 251 but not by very much. Additionally, their rubber producing lives seem to be much shorter than 251/600. However, I don't think anyone knows for sure.

We decided to try some 3001 in a small patch next to the house just to see. They are just barely over two years old so still a ways to go before the truth is known.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Thanks a lot Kolohe.

Regarding your specie2025, can you confirm that after 2years, they grew quicker than other species, which actually means that you will tap them within a shorter period of time?

For your information also, specie2025 has no legacy in Thailand.

On the opposite, specie3001 and specie408 have that legacy.

Could you confirm that specie3001 is growing faster after 2 years?

Can you also send some pics by email?

J.

[kolohe]

We only put in some 3001. No 2025.

The 3001 are supposed to grow slow in the first 1-2 years and then pick up on growth rate after that. They are supposed to keep a good rate even after the 600 are supposed start to slow down (years 4/5?).

All I can confirm right now is that they have been slow as advertised in the beginning. They seem to have just started to speed up lately but we'll see. I'm not ready to rule on the play yet... LOL.

I'll get some pics for you, probably tomorrow though.

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Edited August 5, 2014 by kolohe

[thaiguzzi]

Re rubber plantations; yeah, 3 years ago people were falling over themselves to buy a ready to go 6-7 year old plantation. Now you (me) will not find a buyer for the price you (i) want. If somebody came tomorrow to buy my main plot (4 seasons tapped) for 160-165k per rai i'd take it, even though i'd really want 185-190k per rai. Normal land here ie sugar/tapioca goes for up to 100k. Don't forget 10 years of blood, sweat, tears and lots of money in that price difference.

After some investigations, empty lands (or with sugar or cassava) are selling at 70k per rai.

Rubber plantations being tapped are selling at 120k per rai.

Chanote of course.

J.

Depends where you are. Round here somebody selling good agri land for sugar/tapioca/rubber would have their hand bitten off for 70k. Add tarmac road or electric cable running past it and your on to 100k prices. And NO chanot. 95% of agri land and outskirts of villages up here is NOT chanot. Does'nt stop people buying or selling it either.

[thaiguzzi]

Pretty much all the trees up here in Northern Isaan are Rimm 600 or RIT 251. The numbers are correct, maybe i got the letters arse about tit (wrong way round). Do not believe all the stuff you here about these new strains. I personally do not believe you will get a good tree of any variety that can be tapped at 5 years old, and will have good output and a long life. 251 has a greater output/production than 600, but they grow less straight and are more susceptible to falling over/being snapped in half in high winds. 251 is a Malaysian variety ideally suited to the south, although there is a fair amount up here, and they do yield very well. Just fall over easy in storms.

Regarding land, i agree with Cobbler, and i would not plant rubber now. As previous posts, you're too late, missed the boat etc. Rubber land is only more expensive than sugar/tapioca, because it's either earning/will earn, or people can chop mature trees down for lumber/timber at a better price than Eucalyptus. 3-4 years ago, when prices were high, we had a bunch of Southerners come up here and they were buying ready to go plantations at 200k per rai. That is now over. 125-150k being the norm. I hear in Bung Khan, as much as 175-185k per rai. If you read previous posts, even if demand picks up, there is a hell of a lot of new rubber coming on tap in the next 3 years all over SE Asia and Africa. Oversupply is the key word.

Mike.

Hi Mike,

Agreed about "missing the boat".

Agreed also about lots of supply coming in.

So far at 125-150k per rai, you still make small profit on the land after planting and taking good care of it.

And you will earn revenue, waiting for "the new boat".

IMHO, I believe that you should do same as in the South, it means planting few different crops (they do it with palm oil for other reasons), so you share the risk.

But real business is rubber. You capitalize on your investment.

As you could see a few years ago, the rubber price did not go up because of supply and demand, it just went up because of....market inefficiencies. so it will happen again on up and down sides. Maybe it is the right time to buy on the down side, as I noted more and more sellers in the market. Just wait for the good time! Look at the Nasdaq or S&P between year 2000 and now.

If land price goes up (which I believe is the case here), all properties will go up.

You get a leverage if rubber price also goes up, not true for other short term crops.

I suggest to divide your property into few crops : rubber (long term => "blue chips"), sugar, cassava (current revenue => "bonds") and an other speculative one (high revenue or nothing => "small caps"). This analysis is purely financial and that is what we are talking about by guessing future assets commodities pricing (that is my background in Europe and also a few years ago I used to work for Thai banks).

Your opinion is welcome.

Hope that we can meet later. Can you text me your mobile number?

Jacquie

My mum always said "don't put all your eggs in one basket son" as i bought more land and put more rubber in. She was right. But what did i know, being a dirty filthy tattooed outlaw biker with a penchant for machining and machine tools. Farming - wassat?

However, i have 64 rai of rubber in total;

1st plot of 23 rai purchased for 9k per rai.

2nd plot of 5 rai purchased adjacent same year for 11k per rai.

3rd plot of 10 rai purchased around my house for 20k per rai the following year.

4th plot of 26 rai purchased the next year adjacent to the above land (ie 36 rai together around my house) from the same owner (!!) for 40k per rai. And at that time, people were saying "40k - are you mad?".

The 36 rai plot is now worth 100k a rai with nothing on it, the 28 rai plot probably 80-90k. Add 7-10 year old rubber into it and add 50-70%.

Unfortunately, i do not have further finances (proper wording for pi#ss broke) for investing in alternatives. The truck and house are paid for, the kids go to decent schools, and there is beer and food in the fridge. Oh, and i have enough money to pay my electric bills which means i get to play in my machine shop every day. Rainy season; 4-5 hours everyday on my lathe and mill and i'm as happy as a proverbial pig in the sh#it.

So yeah, if i sold up tomorrow inc the house, it was a damn good investment.

Regards,

Mike.