Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[george]

Thai Immigration tightens requirements for retirement visa extensions

Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

BANGKOK: The Immigration Bureau has tightened the requirements for retirement extensions.

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

It has always been the case that Immigration can ask to see supporting evidence behind the income letter issued by an embassy, but previously has rarely been enforced. That position now seems to have changed. For some nationals it won't make any real difference, as they already have to provide supporting evidence to their embassies to obtain the income letter. Notable exception are citizens of US, Canada and Australia where no evidence of income is required for issue of embassy income letter, just sworn declaration of income required. It looks like The Immigration Bureau has closed the loophole on citizens providing false (unsupported) declarations to obtain income letter.

The financial requirement for obtaining an extension of stay based on retirement is 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank for qualifying period, or an income of not less than 65,000 Baht per month, or a combination of bank balance and monthly income to arrive at 800,000 baht.

-- 2011-06-06

[theoldgit]

Maybe they will do away with the expensive and meaningless letter for those that use the monthly method and just go for the actual proof.

I'm assuming that bank statements indicating receipt of pension are now required, certainly more meaningful than a letter from the embassy.

Maybe Thai Immigration will update their website to show the "new rule".

[harrry]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

[exbelg]

the 800.000 baht is as old as i can remember, nothing new, right?

[Svante]

the 800.000 baht is as old as i can remember, nothing new, right?

The "new" is that those who do not qualify with the 800.000 baht in the bank, now have to show proof that they actually get a pension of at least 65.000 per month. Understand that a letter from the embassy stating the monthly pension was what was needed previously.

[maswov]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

It doesn't matter how often you wire the money here, what matters is how much you earn each month on your pension.

[anselpixel]

This certainly makes it more complicated.

My plan fo convert based on the embassy statement led me to not transfer all the money into a Thai bank.

Now there isn't time.

[khaowong1]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

[sotsira]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

[theoldgit]

It's hardly a "tightening of the rules", it's a "moving of the goal posts".

Will some one in authority actually make an announcement?

[Capealava]

This is only Bangkok immigration?? I assume the marriage extension of 40,000 a month pension is not under scrutiny ???

[Dah fahrang]

This will be interesting.

The 'front of house' staff at the immigration office I am required to attend for my annual visa extension based on retirement (Nakhon Pathom) struggle to understand my (British) embassy letter, then to do check my arithmetic on the conversion of UK Pounds to Thai Baht. To expect them to decipher a British Inland Revenue P60 should really throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

To top it all, more than half of my annual income comes from sources other than my UK pension.

Proof readily available(as provided to the British Embassy) in the form of fixed deposit contracts and interest statements, but again, not the easiest of documents to understand if English skills of the reader aren't up to it.

Because of the inevitable variations in English language ability amongst the immigration bureau staff, and the differences in 'supporting documents' supplied by different countries, I'm afraid that I can 'smell' the approaching requirement for all documents to be translated into Thai, and notarised by the Department of Consular Affairs before presenting to Immigration.

Oh dear......

[sirchai]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

And I thought it would be so easy to understand................:jap:

[true blue]

hope photo stat copies of the internet suffice,as obtaining all relevant docs of different pension companys,is not as easy as it sounds.

[lanna2011]

Can't see the problem if you have the proof - which you would have in getting an Embassy letter? unless you 'swore' that you had it - but didn't? then it could be tricky.

[Dante99]

"the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income."

So what does that mean?

two months pension income received somewhere?

two months pension income transferred into a Thai bank?

transferred in within what time period?

What if income is not pension income but investment income? To be treated the same way?

pension income or at least 65.000 Baht per month?

[sirchai]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

It's easy to understand. They know that so many farlangs are losing all there money by spending it in bars and cars and motorbikes for the wife and the whole family.

They think for their own people............:jap:

[redsquare]

Breaking News . . . Thai Immigration cracking down on people trying to cheat the system.

What awful people they are. Let's hear from the apologists who feel that farang retirees should be allowed to claim whatever monthly pension they like with no checks at all by Immigration.

[flyfrog]

Maybe they will do away with the expensive and meaningless letter for those that use the monthly method and just go for the actual proof.

I'm assuming that bank statements indicating receipt of pension are now required, certainly more meaningful than a letter from the embassy.

Maybe Thai Immigration will update their website to show the "new rule".

Wouldn't it be nice to use the same rules in Europe, don't think we gonna have more illegal aliens coming over to benefit from our poor working class

[Penkoprod]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Private pension?

Ocupational pension?

Pension annuity?

Aren't those "pensions" just like the State Pension that you seem to be refering to?

Those are just 3 that spring to mind that qualify as pensions in the true sense

Penkoprod

[grahamhc]

This certainly makes it more complicated.

My plan fo convert based on the embassy statement led me to not transfer all the money into a Thai bank.

Now there isn't time.

The Letter from the British Consulate confirms the amount RECEIVED monthly in my Bank Statement, which I then transfer over several times a year in larger amounts, and not on a monthly basis. The letter confirms my income, which is a combination of Pension and monthly investment income, and show the total.

With most ex-pats on Internet banking, and there are 1,000s of banks out there. Your Embassy will have a list, as they have to be licences for financial transaction. Immigration will not know if a genuine letter or cleaver bit of work on the applicant's computer.

Yest again, it is not the pensioner who can prove genuine income, but the ones who are massaging their figures, that make the rest of us jump though hoops to prove that we can support ourselves.

I used to always have my full money over here, but now spread it between an Embassy Letter and cash in the bank.

[Svante]

I don't understand what the commotion is all about. From now on immigration wants, once a year, to have proof that the stated pension of 65.000 baht/month is actually brought in to Thailand. Apparently there are people that show statements from the embassies of the required minimum income, whether pension or other and then do not bring in the money but most likely do work of some sort illegally in Thailand. I think this is not at all a strange request. For those that do not have an income or pension, the requirement to show proof of 800.000 baht in a Thai bank 3 months prior to the request for extension has been in force for many years. They have become more strict regarding the copy of the bank book. You must now have an entry in the book the same day as you ask for extension, meaning a small transaction must be done that same day.

[swerver]

Maybe they will do away with the expensive and meaningless letter for those that use the monthly method and just go for the actual proof.

I'm assuming that bank statements indicating receipt of pension are now required, certainly more meaningful than a letter from the embassy.

Maybe Thai Immigration will update their website to show the "new rule".

the expensive and meaningless letter

How right you are. I told Thai Immigration years ago that this Embassy letter was a farce. A person could tell the embassy any amount - even under oat – which absolute doesn’t mean a thing because a person is allowed to change its mind. Under oat doesn’t mean it is poured in concrete. Then when I told them that the letter in question cost a person Fifty Dollar ($50.00) the immigration officer nearly fell of its chair. My suggestion at that time was to have the account statement of the pension being deposited in the bank. A person could bring in several account statements as proof to show it was on a perpetual basis.

If you wait long enough things finally dawn on the Thais. But don’t hold your breath while waiting because you will turn blue around the gills.

[Suradit]

Unless your lieing to your embassy its a non issue ??

All thats happening here is they want to see that what you claim is reality.. If no ones telling porkies then I see no issue.

Apparently, once again, people from Immigrations have been reading ThaiVisa message boards to find out which loopholes are being exploited. Many times when someone has posed a question on this board about proof of income or meeting the minimums, someone has responded that if you're an American (or someone else whose embassy uses sworn statements) that you can just say anything you want.

Same was true back when people were shifting bank balances around and Immigrations then decided to require money to be in your account for several months. The geniuses posting on TV would brag about how clever they were and that loophole was closed.

Anyway, as someone else said, the financial requirements remain the same, but because of a few dishonest people we will all have to provide more documentation that we meet those requirements.

I don't see the relevance of the comparison of a supposed average Thai salary of Baht 8000 to the Baht 65,000 requirement for retired farang. It may hurt your feelings to face the fact that Thailand is not providing a refugee camp for impoverished farang. We're welcomed here if we are going to spend money to boost the economy. Very sensible. Not sure what other countries are laying out a big welcome for foreign welfare cases.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Suradit

[moskito]

Guess thats bad news for all the Visa and Accounting offices sale Retirement Visa under the table for 20.000 to 25.000 Baht...... But I am very sure they will find a way

Bad luck for the honest people living in LoS and just having an income of less than 65k a month.....thats an rediculous amount....compared to a THAI citizen....guess just

Abhisit makes that much money a month (over the table)

[sotsira]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Private pension?

Ocupational pension?

Pension annuity?

Aren't those "pensions" just like the State Pension that you seem to be refering to?

Those are just 3 that spring to mind that qualify as pensions in the true sense

Penkoprod

Yes but what about those that have an income other than a pension ie. Rental Income as a landlord.

Would they still qualify on proof of income? with no proof of pension as such.

[jfchandler]

I think this part of the headline is misleading:

Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required

Unless something has changed beyond what's mentioned in the OP, retirees are not required to bring their income INTO Thailand.... That's only a requirement when using the 800,000 baht Thai bank deposits method to satisfy the income test. It's NOT a requirement if one is using the 65,000 baht per month of income to satisfy the income test.

So what the post is saying is, Thai immigration will ask for documents showing proof of your monthly income as stated in the consulate letter... proof that you really have that income.... not proof that you've somehow transferred it into Thailand.

And, when they talk about pension amounts as part of the retirement extensions issue, it's pension or other income of all the various sources.... There never has been a rule that says all of the 65,000 baht per month to meet the income test must come from pension sources... It can come from any sources... But now, apparently, you'll have to show evidence that the income is real.

Edited June 6, 2011 by jfchandler

[Felt 35]

It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income.

So two monthly transfers to Bangkok Bank with 65K and an atm slip is proof enough but a verification from my Embassy where I have to show a original standard National pension slip which state the pension income, tax paid, my name, dob and National id number, and my address in Thailand is also printed on the pension slip is no good…... but a transfer from whatever income is proof of pension or a loan….

[lucjoker]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

I think it is totally fair, this thai is pays 1500 bht rent a month,never drinks beer that cost more

than 30 bht,pays his mianoy only 100 bht .........does not own a car ,motorcycle..........

and if he does ...he doesn't pay tax nor insurance........so his live is 10 times chaeper than ours,

so normaly we should earn 80 000 bht/month and not 65000 !!!!!!!lol !

[swerver]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

Yes you can bring it in batches of $10,000.00

These SWIFT transfers cost $40.00 each transfer so doing it monthly makes it expensive.

When doing it this way make sure you top up 3-months before going for the retirement extension and that at time of extension there is the minimum 800,000 Baht requirement in the bank in Thailand. Of course you need a letter from the bank in Thailand were you have the account stating that you have an account with the bank. Whatever it says in Thai in that letter, I have no idea what it says.