Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[moe666]

The last sentence of the OP states, or a combination of monthly income and bank balance......

I thought this option was discontinued and it was either 65,000/month OR 800,000 baht in the bank??????

Anyone have the answer to this question? I thought the combination option was no more??

Why did you think it had ended, talk to someone in a bar?

[kdc1899]

The last sentence of the OP states, or a combination of monthly income and bank balance......

I thought this option was discontinued and it was either 65,000/month OR 800,000 baht in the bank??????

Anyone have the answer to this question? I thought the combination option was no more??

The answer is that no official announcement has been made related to changes or enforcement of rules already in place. This whole thing is speculation from some visa company that wants you to retain their services.

Lots of good info though.

[Jingthing]

The last sentence of the OP states, or a combination of monthly income and bank balance......

I thought this option was discontinued and it was either 65,000/month OR 800,000 baht in the bank??????

Anyone have the answer to this question? I thought the combination option was no more??

Yet again. The combo option remains a valid option.

The "news" such as it is in the OP has absolutely nothing to do with any change in the validity of the combo option. If its related at all, one might wonder if the targeted for attention nationalities like Americans who do use the combo option will also be subject to the same requirement (IMPORTATION of two months claimed pension INTO Thailand) as supposedly income only qualifiers with the special nationalities might be. Saying again, rumors, gossip and misinformation from this one thread are bound to be generated for YEARS.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[IMA_FARANG]

If that is in fact true it is a signifigant change for many U.S. citizens hoping to retire in Thailand.

And not a change for the better.

For one thing, in the U.S. you do not usually qualify for a Social Security (pension) until you are 65 years old. Since it is possible to retire here in Bangkok at age 50...U.S. citizens between the ages of 50 and 65 will often have no Social Security pension income. Therefore they can not show any "evidence" of a monthly 65,000 Baht income UNLESS they have some other source of income from the U.S. (i.e. from a investment fund, an IRA, or such).

Additionally many U.S. citizens establsh an IRA (Individual Retirement Account) for the purpose of giving themselves an income when they retire. Since the U.S. retirement age is normally 65 years old, many IRA funds actually charge a penalty fee for early withdrawal (before age 65) of funds from that IRA account.

So if this new requirement is true, it will be much more difficlt for a U.S. citizen between the age of 50 and 65 to retire in Thailand...unless he or she has the 400 K (marriage to Thai extension) or the 800K (retirement extension) funds to deposit in a Thai bank account.

Since I went for the 800K retirement extension and I will be over 65 in October...I don't see this new requirement hurting me anyhow.

But as I said above, it could make a signifigant difference to some U.S. citizens seeking to retire in Thailand or even already retired here and using the 65K Baht monthly income method.

Edited June 7, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[granuaile]

It disappointing when people have access to the internet but don't take a few minutes to get correct information. The Aussie pension for a single person would be equivalent to around 43,000 bht/mth (not 25,000) and around 66,000 bht/mth for a couple. On top of this there are many additional supplements and concessions (eg. rent, electricity, telephone, travel, children, etc) and of course free health services. And not forgetting that many businesses give discounts for 'seniors'. I imagine this is similar to other 'farang/western' countries. You won't live the high life on a pension but you can live comfortably enough if you manage your money carefully.

...

But 43,000 baht would still be insufficient.

That said, a Thai friend of mine once told me "G. there have always been foreigners in Thailand, there will always be a way."

[Jingthing]

Regarding US social security, for my age group, it can be started at age 62, not 65, if chosen.

IRA early withdrawal penalties are in effect for Americans under age 59 1/2, not age 65.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[moe666]

You must really feel wanted here... :lol:

On this page alone we had more hurdles to jump over, whine-whine they donot want us here, what is considered ok a pension or income. Donot any of you people read the post already submitted. Please quit using the they donot want us here number this is one whine that has never been proven.hehehehe another day at TV yjr best free enertainment on the web.

This is the only life I have, I feel like such a failure that I spend so much time here. NOT. I enjoy reading most of the post many are informative, some are boring, others are just stupid. I have learned alot about Thailand here as well as the people who come to this website most are good people but there are a large number who complain about Thailand with out any evidence to back up their charge. Enough said

[kdc1899]

If that is in fact true it is a signifigant change for many U.S. citizens hoping to retire in Thailand.

And not a change for the better.

For one thing, in the U.S. you do not usually qualify for a Social Security (pension) until you are 65 years old. Since it is possible to retire here in Bangkok at age 50...U.S. citizens between the ages of 50 and 65 will have no Social Security pension income. Therefore they can not show any "evidence" of a monthly 65,000 Baht income UNLESS they have some other source of income from the U.S. (i.e. from a investment fund, an IRA, or such).

Additionally many U.S. citizens establsh an IRA (Individual Retirement Account) for the purpose of givig them an income when they retire. Since the U.S. retirement age is normally 65 years old, many IRA funds actually charge a penalty fee for early withdrawal (before age 65) of funds from that IRA account.

So if this new requirement is true, it will be much more difficlt for a U.S. citizen between the age of 50 and 65 to retire in Thailand...unless he or she has the 400 K (marriage to Thai extension) or the 800K (retirement extension) funds to deposit in a Thai bank account.

Since i went for the 800K retirement extension and I will be over 65 in October...I don't see this requirement hurting me anyhow.

But as I said above, it could make a signifigant difference to some U.S. citizens seeking to retire in Thailand or even already retired here and using the 65K Baht monthly method.

It really is no issue. If you're a 50 year old American and Thailand is making it difficult for you to come here and play with their 20 year old gals then just go to the philipines, cambodia, Goa India, Panama, etc, etc.

The gals are the only reason to be here. The beaches suck (outside of the Adaman beaches), the locals are not nice, the new crop (infestation) of expats from developing economy locales are not very nice.

[blabla1]

C'mon mate,wake up and evidence will hit you in all direction,especially on Thai visa, i'm sure most live here by choice, it's just like today,there is always something prickling us and keeping us on our toes, if you are over 65,and scraping through with just enough pension, i am sure, this story causes concern and poses the question ,'what is it this time"?

You must really feel wanted here... :lol:

On this page alone we had more hurdles to jump over, whine-whine they donot want us here, what is considered ok a pension or income. Donot any of you people read the post already submitted. Please quit using the they donot want us here number this is one whine that has never been proven.hehehehe another day at TV yjr best free enertainment on the web.

This is the only life I have, I feel like such a failure that I spend so much time here. NOT. I enjoy reading most of the post many are informative, some are boring, others are just stupid. I have learned alot about Thailand here as well as the people who come to this website most are good people but there are a large number who complain about Thailand with out any evidence to back up their charge. Enough said

[InterestedObserver]

Additionally many U.S. citizens establsh an IRA (Individual Retirement Account) for the purpose of givig them an income when they retire. Since the U.S. retirement age is normally 65 years old, many IRA funds actually charge a penalty fee for early withdrawal (before age 65) of funds from that IRA account.

It's the IRS that charges the 10% penalty for IRA distributions prior to age 59¹/₂, although there are a couple of exceptions.

[Arkady]

"It has always been the case that Immigration can ask to see supporting evidence behind the income letter issued by an embassy, but previously has rarely been enforced. That position now seems to have changed. For some nationals it won't make any real difference, as they already have to provide supporting evidence to their embassies to obtain the income letter. Notable exception are citizens of US, Canada and Australia where no evidence of income is required for issue of embassy income letter, just sworn declaration of income required. It looks like The Immigration Bureau has closed the loophole on citizens providing false (unsupported) declarations to obtain income letter."

If Immigration has now figured out that declarations of retirement income verified by the embassies of three major farang countries simply confirm the identity and signature of the declarer without verifying the information contained in the declaration (as required by those countries' privacy laws), it is quite reasonable that they should require documentation to support these declarations that they now realise are absolutely meaningless. Apart from the fact those countries have caused problems for retirees of other nationalities, what's the problem? They haven't increased the financial barriers or introduced sensible requirements for medical insurance or clean criminal records or increased the bargain basement cost of a retirement extension which is significantly less than permanent residents have to pay for their annual resident book endorsements. Retirees who meet the criteria on income or local bank balance should still no problem getting their annual extensions. Why should Thailand keep those who don't meet the criteria?

[Gary A]

Using the income statement while living in Jomtien was never a problem. When I moved upcountry, the immigration official did NOT like the income statement. He looked me right in the face and told me that some people lie. I had to return to Bangkok and get a new statement. After I did that and returned upcountry he demanded that I go back to Bangkok to have the statement legalized at an office in Laksi.

I was then told that if I didn't like the hassle, that I should just put 800,000 baht in my Thai bank account. I really didn't like that but that's what I ended up doing. It was only a matter of time until immigration moved the goal posts.

[softgeorge]

If that is in fact true it is a signifigant change for many U.S. citizens hoping to retire in Thailand.

And not a change for the better.

For one thing, in the U.S. you do not usually qualify for a Social Security (pension) until you are 65 years old. Since it is possible to retire here in Bangkok at age 50...U.S. citizens between the ages of 50 and 65 will have no Social Security pension income. Therefore they can not show any "evidence" of a monthly 65,000 Baht income UNLESS they have some other source of income from the U.S. (i.e. from a investment fund, an IRA, or such).

Additionally many U.S. citizens establsh an IRA (Individual Retirement Account) for the purpose of givig them an income when they retire. Since the U.S. retirement age is normally 65 years old, many IRA funds actually charge a penalty fee for early withdrawal (before age 65) of funds from that IRA account.

So if this new requirement is true, it will be much more difficlt for a U.S. citizen between the age of 50 and 65 to retire in Thailand...unless he or she has the 400 K (marriage to Thai extension) or the 800K (retirement extension) funds to deposit in a Thai bank account.

Since i went for the 800K retirement extension and I will be over 65 in October...I don't see this requirement hurting me anyhow.

But as I said above, it could make a signifigant difference to some U.S. citizens seeking to retire in Thailand or even already retired here and using the 65K Baht monthly method.

It really is no issue. If you're a 50 year old American and Thailand is making it difficult for you to come here and play with their 20 year old gals then just go to the philipines, cambodia, Goa India, Panama, etc, etc.

The gals are the only reason to be here. The beaches suck (outside of the Adaman beaches), the locals are not nice, the new crop (infestation) of expats from developing economy locales are not very nice.

I think that you have only spent time in the wrong areas of Thailand. I don't hang around the sleazy areas like the beach towns which are full of farangs looking for a good time. All the Thais that I know are very very nice people and I actually find the country wonderful. My wife is 3 yrs younger than I also. Pls try seeing other parts of Thailand you will be quite supprised.

[route8]

Slightly o/t,but also relevant I think,can anyone confirm that when it comes to renewal of a Thai Wife Visa,it is acceptable to Immigration to show 400000 Baht in a TIME DEPOSIT ACCOUNT, rather than a SAVINGS ACCOUNT?..both of which I hold with Kasikorn Bank.

Thanks.

[kdc1899]

If that is in fact true it is a signifigant change for many U.S. citizens hoping to retire in Thailand.

And not a change for the better.

For one thing, in the U.S. you do not usually qualify for a Social Security (pension) until you are 65 years old. Since it is possible to retire here in Bangkok at age 50...U.S. citizens between the ages of 50 and 65 will have no Social Security pension income. Therefore they can not show any "evidence" of a monthly 65,000 Baht income UNLESS they have some other source of income from the U.S. (i.e. from a investment fund, an IRA, or such).

Additionally many U.S. citizens establsh an IRA (Individual Retirement Account) for the purpose of givig them an income when they retire. Since the U.S. retirement age is normally 65 years old, many IRA funds actually charge a penalty fee for early withdrawal (before age 65) of funds from that IRA account.

So if this new requirement is true, it will be much more difficlt for a U.S. citizen between the age of 50 and 65 to retire in Thailand...unless he or she has the 400 K (marriage to Thai extension) or the 800K (retirement extension) funds to deposit in a Thai bank account.

Since i went for the 800K retirement extension and I will be over 65 in October...I don't see this requirement hurting me anyhow.

But as I said above, it could make a signifigant difference to some U.S. citizens seeking to retire in Thailand or even already retired here and using the 65K Baht monthly method.

It really is no issue. If you're a 50 year old American and Thailand is making it difficult for you to come here and play with their 20 year old gals then just go to the philipines, cambodia, Goa India, Panama, etc, etc.

The gals are the only reason to be here. The beaches suck (outside of the Adaman beaches), the locals are not nice, the new crop (infestation) of expats from developing economy locales are not very nice.

I think that you have only spent time in the wrong areas of Thailand. I don't hang around the sleazy areas like the beach towns which are full of farangs looking for a good time. All the Thais that I know are very very nice people and I actually find the country wonderful. My wife is 3 yrs younger than I also. Pls try seeing other parts of Thailand you will be quite supprised.

You and I are not affected by the rumours in this thread. We have Thai wives. Retirement issues are not relevant to us.

If these rumours (put forth by a visa company fishing for clients) are true then I see no reason for an under 65 American to go through all the trouble to stay here or get here. There are cheaper places to retire to; that have currincies pegged to the American dollar, better beaches, better climate, less pollution, less crime, etc, etc.

These places don't have Thai girls though.

That's the deal breaker for me. Been lots of places. Never met gals like they got here.

[stanley2550]

I wouldn't worry about it too much...Someone in the Government is always willing to take money under the table...and that ain't going to change no matter what laws they have on their books. Thats the Bottom Line. Besides there are other great places in this world to retire; this isn't the only show in the world. Anyone who has traveled extensively already knows that.

[Estrada]

I hope someone will clarify this. I do not bring money from my pension in each month, I bring it in a few times a year in $10000 lots. Gets expensive if I have to do it each month.

Yes you can bring it in batches of $10,000.00

These SWIFT transfers cost $40.00 each transfer so doing it monthly makes it expensive.

When doing it this way make sure you top up 3-months before going for the retirement extension and that at time of extension there is the minimum 800,000 Baht requirement in the bank in Thailand. Of course you need a letter from the bank in Thailand were you have the account stating that you have an account with the bank. Whatever it says in Thai in that letter, I have no idea what it says.

Costs me only B100 at HSBC Bank. I have a private pension from AVIVA who use CitiBank to transfer the money instantaneously in Thai Baht on the due date, as Aviva have monies invested in multiple currencies. There is no currency conversion loss or additional fee, AVIVA pay the CitiBank Charge. The normal HSBC fee of B250/transaction is also reduced to B100 only/transaction. As long as you maintain a balance of B500,000 in the account there are no other charges except for the ATM card. I keep B800,000 in this account and use an HSBC statement of 3 months account at immigration, so that I do not have to show proof of income from the Embassy. I have the pension paid every 6 months, as in past history when the pension was paid by cheque, it cost B500 each month and took 45 days (BBL) or 19 days (HSBC) to clear the cheques.

B1200/transfer is very steep. I assume you are having your pension first paid into an account in the UK and that is why you are getting ripped off. Try getting your pension paid direct to Thailand. If you want to keep it in the original currency you can deposit it into a number of Foreign currency accounts, Sterling, Dollars etc, and transfer it if and when the exchange rate improves.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Estrada

[moe666]

C'mon mate,wake up and evidence will hit you in all direction,especially on Thai visa, i'm sure most live here by choice, it's just like today,there is always something prickling us and keeping us on our toes, if you are over 65,and scraping through with just enough pension, i am sure, this story causes concern and poses the question ,'what is it this time"?

You must really feel wanted here... :lol:

On this page alone we had more hurdles to jump over, whine-whine they donot want us here, what is considered ok a pension or income. Donot any of you people read the post already submitted. Please quit using the they donot want us here number this is one whine that has never been proven.hehehehe another day at TV yjr best free enertainment on the web.

This is the only life I have, I feel like such a failure that I spend so much time here. NOT. I enjoy reading most of the post many are informative, some are boring, others are just stupid. I have learned alot about Thailand here as well as the people who come to this website most are good people but there are a large number who complain about Thailand with out any evidence to back up their charge. Enough said

Not really, if one has read the thread its all speculation and now out of control speculation. Yes people run into out of control immigration officers and there isn't much you can do about that. The rules as far as obtaining a retirement extension of stay haven't changed in several years and when they did information was forth coming from immigration about the rule changes.

Yes I am over 65 but in my years I have learned not to sweat the things I have no control over, immigration rules I have no control over, all I can do is comply and since I meet all of the requirements thats no sweat. I believe very little here on Thaivisa since it is mostly personal opinion, except for the info from the moderators in the visa forum.

[elektrified]

Regarding US social security, for my age group, it can be started at age 62, not 65, if chosen.

But if you choose that route, you get the least amount of money per month. In fact if you wait until past age 65, you will get even more per month. True?

That is of course if the fund will still be in existence when many people born in the late 1950's-early 1960's apply for Social Security.

[Lost in LOS]

I do the 800k way, and they have checked in the past that it was brought into Thailand. Although a rip off from the banks, it is a far easier way, you must have the 800k for 3 months and then you can spend it as you like for the next 9 months, until 3 months before your renewal when you need to top up to 800k again.

As for saying why should a farang have to show 65k income when a Thai makes much less, why should they want us here unless it is to help their economy. We don't pay any taxes but use all the roads, lighting, structure etc [yes you pay vat but only on your purchaces]. i think they are being pretty fair about it since they don't check what you spend just what you have available to spend. They need us only for our money, they are not interested in our culture or complaining, life is not always fair. It is their country to do with as they please and I think they are being fair, how often do you complain about the immigrants in your country not respecting the rules. Same Same.

In America, we have countess imigrants staying there, on the dole, using the facilitates, hospitals, schools etc {that is why California is going broke].

[Pattaya46]

// its all speculation and now out of control speculation.

I agree.

Someone yesterday asked why "famous" members leave ThaiVisa forum;

this kind of rumor that we periodically find here could be a reason...

The very sad thing is that this rumor come from a sponsor and was written by a upper group member.

No other message since yesterday to confirm this speculation

Not good for the already poor credibility of ThaiVisa...

[kurtgruen]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Private pension?

Ocupational pension?

Pension annuity?

Aren't those "pensions" just like the State Pension that you seem to be refering to?

Those are just 3 that spring to mind that qualify as pensions in the true sense

Penkoprod

What about investment income? I am not 65, so get no pension, but receive more than the required money, in (documented) investment income. I wonder if that qualifies, has anybody gotten retirement visa with same?

[Mario2008]

Income is income and investment is normally regarded as such. In the end it is your embassy that decides if they accept it as income and will issue a letter.

[moe666]

Whats confusing is that some individuals have an income but not a pension as yet.

So do they now want to see pension proof or income proof?

As many i know that are over 50 but under 65yrs don't qualify for their pensions in their home countries.

Private pension?

Ocupational pension?

Pension annuity?

Aren't those "pensions" just like the State Pension that you seem to be refering to?

Those are just 3 that spring to mind that qualify as pensions in the true sense

Penkoprod

What about investment income? I am not 65, so get no pension, but receive more than the required money, in (documented) investment income. I wonder if that qualifies, has anybody gotten retirement visa with same?

yes it is fine

[moobaan]

I believe income - from any place - is fine

[ianh68]

They have become more strict regarding the copy of the bank book. You must now have an entry in the book the same day as you ask for extension, meaning a small transaction must be done that same day.

Can anyone verify this statement? For logistical reasons I have always got my bank letter the day before visiting Immigration.

[Mario2008]

I believe income - from any place - is fine

Not sure if it also can be from Thailand, as than it would be an investment and one could be expected to follow the rules for an extension of stay based on investment.

[maidu]

It's totally crazy that the average Thai earns about 8000 baht a month, but they expect farangs to have pension incomes of 65,000 baht a month to live there.

Bureaudracy feeds on itself. Thai bureaucracy thinks that the more paper and the more computer files it has on someone (or their personal business) the better the system works. The opposite is true. I've got Electricity accounts and car registrations in names of Thai people who have died years ago. If I go to a Thai gov't office to try to appoint new names to reflect current reality, I'm compounded with piles of paperwork and glitches and furrowed brows from people who can't think clearly.

I can picture Thai bureaucrats trying to decipher official papers from any of 50 different countries, and in their thinly disguised frustration, will demand yet more and more paper - in order to complicate the process. Larry Niven, the great science fiction writer, had a story about hell. In his description of hell, there were nine rings one had to go through to exit. One of those rings was endless bureaucracy, endless loops of Catch 22. To me, that would me more hellish than grappling with bulls and tigers.

[Estrada]

................Incidentally my deposit account here is earning three times the interest it would in England at the moment.

Bit of a side issue, but to correct any false impressions your post might leave, it is possible to get about 3%pa on deposit accounts in the UK (even with instant access - eg Tesco at 2.9%). You are probably getting no better than that in Thailand.

Possibly your post is factually correct because your money was previously languishing in a UK deposit account at 0.01% to 0.25% (the ones that banks use to catch out the unwary and the ones similar to those also operated by many Thai banks) and now you have shopped around in Thailand and got much better.

Either way rates available on deposited savings do not compensate for inflation in the UK, Thailand or most other countries of the world. We savers are required to pay the price of the borrowing majorities' avarice and greed over the last 20 years and bale out the economies by allowing low interest strategies to continue.

You can get 3% here also.

You forget that the British Pound was B35 to 1GBP before the 1997 crash and the US$1 = B25. For sure if you are keeping the money in the UK for a mere 3% you are going to lose more than this as the Baht strengthens. Currently the best rate in Thailand is 3% in an Aussie Dollar account. Personally I put my money in the Thai Stock Exchange and made 400% in 2 years(however I know the market). Bualuang Securities made 47% in a year which is more secure. There are plenty of investments offered by the Thai Banks which offer quite safe returns. If you live here it makes no sense to keep your money in your Country of origin especially when the Baht is going up and the US, UK currencies Etc are going down the tubes.

Incidently, Thai Immigration will not consider even BAHT 30 million in the stock exchange as proof of income or lieu of the B800,000 on deposit! (TIT)

[Briggsy]

Guess thats bad news for all the Visa and Accounting offices sale Retirement Visa under the table for 20.000 to 25.000 Baht......

I think you'll find just the opposite. A greater proportion of retirement visas will be applied for using "Twisty's Bend-the-rules Visa Service" of one sort or another and that's just what immigration like.