Loners and Family Values​​.

[Fookhaht]

Agree. My ex was a hi-so, never again. There were no problems with monetary nonsense, but the lifestyle and behavior sucks,

Thai soap opera at high-level

Wow, that Thai soap opera stuff really goes on in real life? Bad actors and all?

[lovelomsak]

Since you brought it up I will reply. Different families different values. Everyone deals with the same family problem different and every family develops different ways of dealing with problems and helping.

I am a loner and proud of it. My family values were such that a man must first and formost be able to take care of himself and not be a burden to others. First you take care of yourself. Second you take care of those close to you( immediate family) Third you take care of extented family. Fourth you assist the community. It is like oxygen masks in an airplane put yours on first before assisting others.

If a person cannot take care of themselves how the heck can they assist others. They themselves are in need if unable to care for themselves. The theory is simple. If everyone worked at taking care of themselves,few people would need help.

People donot like loners like myself because I say what I think is right and live by it. I am in my 60's. I make no demands on others for help but give assistance to a degree to others. I am a strong believer in many cases that the best thing you can do for a person is nothing. Too much help defeats the purpose. People need to work their own way out of their own problems that builds character and selfworth.Take a look at socialist countries and tell me what good it has done them. Conquering adversity gives a person strengh. Helping them too much makes them dependent.

Look at Thaialnd, family is everything. Do you see behaved youth, low crime,a strong middle class,good community values,low domestic violence and I could go on but will stop there. You donot see any of this. Do you ask why? Well because the family assists no matter how terrible the person is or what they have done. No accountability.The family protects and nurtures to a point of complete failure.

All that said I should mention helping someone who is already helping them selves and speeding up the process is a very good investment of time and energy.Giving support to an person making the effort is the way to go. You will see reward for your effort in the way of helping a person willing to do their part in bettering themselves and others they are close to.

I too am a loner, but what does that have to do with helping others. IT is because I'm a loner and didn't throw money away that I am fortunate enough to have some to help. You use the example of the oxygen masks where you put yours on and THEN ASSIST OTHERS. Which is it assist if you can afford it or not assist under any circumstances?

It is true that people have to learn to live on their own two feet. My wife's grandparents took her in when she was 4 months old. Poor rice farmers they did not hesitate to care for her and raise her to be a Honorable woman. They were poor, but they shared what they had. When we met she was supporting them from her earnings and I agreed that WE should continue to support them. They are in their 80's, are you suggesting that they should continue to farm rice? We discussed all of these support issues and agreed to our present arrangement upfront. She is my wife not an employee, she is entitled to share the lifestyle that WE are capable of sustaining. I see some guys looking to have a Thai wife on the cheap and refuse to recognize that even the law says that she has a right to share in the benefits of the relationship.

I don't know where you grew up but your so called socialist countries are home to the happiest most productive people in the world. I'm talking functional countries like Finland, Sweden, Norway and some other European countries that actuall seem to care about their citizens. Please explain to me how the current adversity of unemployment and war and unequal opportunity builds character? More US veterans in have committed suicide than have died in the wars they fought since Vietnam. There are many young ambitious people graduating from universities who will not have a job because the rich have wrecked the US economy. I suppose that will just make them stronger. To starve and live on the street with little opportunity.

I've made interest free loans to my wifes family and been repaid in every case. I did the same for my own kids. I'm not suggesting that anyone throw away money on people who are not willing to work hard for themselves. That is the point. When I get to know these people and their character I am comfortable helping and my wife who is half of this relationship and has her own priorities. I have several friends who buy a new car when they want or new TV's etc but refuse to give their wives anything beyond a meager allowance. They are more slave than wife.

As for your assessment of Thailand being riddled with crime I suggest you visit the average US city these days or read about the crime. This is a country that has the highest number of police per capita in the world. I'll take Thai community any day. Maybe you should jump down off your bar stool and meet some hardworking Thais and get a more accurate picture. If all you know is bar girls it's no wonder you think the way that you do.

Wow talk about failure to communicate. Was my post that confusing to you that you got this out of it?

Your first paragraph you appear to read a lot more into it than is there. I simply state before you can help others you must be able to take care of yourself.You seem to be looking for a hidden meaning cannot understand why.

Then you attack with helpng the old in the family. In my family in Canada we are one of the few left that keep our old at home and take care of them rather than send them to old folks homes.That is simply respecting those before you who gave you the tools to survive and be who you are . It has nothing to do with assisting capable people make their way in life.

Now the socialism issue. I am Canadain and know of what I speak here i watched socialism erode my country. I also talk to Swedes and Norwegians and they say the same I do. You can quote what ever you like but if people feel it I then feel it is real.

Interest free loans is commendable but like I said help those who are willing to help themsleves and it sounds like this was simply a case of that why use that against me?You lent they paid it back you how does that vary from what I said about getting rewards for your time and effort. You helped them they appreciated it paid you back and moved forward.

As to being riddled with crime where did I say that.?I ask do you see low crime, big difference. Do you have problem understanding the written word?

And the final part about getting off my bar stool and meeting good middle class people you are so way off. I donot drink,smoke or do drugs. And because of my outlook on things all my friends in Thailand are respected Thais. I dotnot know a bargirl except when I meet a foreigner and he has one with him.

I used to like your posts I felt you made some sense sometimes but this one was so out in leftfield it makes me wonder if you have a chemical balance issue you should get checked.

Edited June 11, 2011 by lovelomsak

[kdc1899]

OP, thread title and initial post you talk about "family" then you changed it to FIL and MIL excluding siblings and relatives. Next you mentioned that in the last 22 years you have married 3 times! Am i reading your posts wrong or are you insinuating something else?

As for family values, it's normal in Asia to give back a % of their monthly income to their parents or for emergencies BUT, when it comes to handouts, it's a BIG no no. If told otherwise, you're being skimmed.

My Thai wife asks me why I don't give her mother money every month or buy her land or do all those other things falangs do for their thai wives and girlfriends.

" First of all, wife, I don't even give MY mother money every month, but, I'll make a deal with you. You have 3 sisters and two brothers. I'll match whatever the highest amount any of them give to your mom every month ". " They not give her any baht ".

Nuff said.................

[trisailer]

Since you brought it up I will reply. Different families different values. Everyone deals with the same family problem different and every family develops different ways of dealing with problems and helping.

I am a loner and proud of it. My family values were such that a man must first and formost be able to take care of himself and not be a burden to others. First you take care of yourself. Second you take care of those close to you( immediate family) Third you take care of extented family. Fourth you assist the community. It is like oxygen masks in an airplane put yours on first before assisting others.

If a person cannot take care of themselves how the heck can they assist others. They themselves are in need if unable to care for themselves. The theory is simple. If everyone worked at taking care of themselves,few people would need help.

People donot like loners like myself because I say what I think is right and live by it. I am in my 60's. I make no demands on others for help but give assistance to a degree to others. I am a strong believer in many cases that the best thing you can do for a person is nothing. Too much help defeats the purpose. People need to work their own way out of their own problems that builds character and selfworth.Take a look at socialist countries and tell me what good it has done them. Conquering adversity gives a person strengh. Helping them too much makes them dependent.

Look at Thaialnd, family is everything. Do you see behaved youth, low crime,a strong middle class,good community values,low domestic violence and I could go on but will stop there. You donot see any of this. Do you ask why? Well because the family assists no matter how terrible the person is or what they have done. No accountability.The family protects and nurtures to a point of complete failure.

All that said I should mention helping someone who is already helping them selves and speeding up the process is a very good investment of time and energy.Giving support to an person making the effort is the way to go. You will see reward for your effort in the way of helping a person willing to do their part in bettering themselves and others they are close to.

I too am a loner, but what does that have to do with helping others. IT is because I'm a loner and didn't throw money away that I am fortunate enough to have some to help. You use the example of the oxygen masks where you put yours on and THEN ASSIST OTHERS. Which is it assist if you can afford it or not assist under any circumstances?

It is true that people have to learn to live on their own two feet. My wife's grandparents took her in when she was 4 months old. Poor rice farmers they did not hesitate to care for her and raise her to be a Honorable woman. They were poor, but they shared what they had. When we met she was supporting them from her earnings and I agreed that WE should continue to support them. They are in their 80's, are you suggesting that they should continue to farm rice? We discussed all of these support issues and agreed to our present arrangement upfront. She is my wife not an employee, she is entitled to share the lifestyle that WE are capable of sustaining. I see some guys looking to have a Thai wife on the cheap and refuse to recognize that even the law says that she has a right to share in the benefits of the relationship.

I don't know where you grew up but your so called socialist countries are home to the happiest most productive people in the world. I'm talking functional countries like Finland, Sweden, Norway and some other European countries that actuall seem to care about their citizens. Please explain to me how the current adversity of unemployment and war and unequal opportunity builds character? More US veterans in have committed suicide than have died in the wars they fought since Vietnam. There are many young ambitious people graduating from universities who will not have a job because the rich have wrecked the US economy. I suppose that will just make them stronger. To starve and live on the street with little opportunity.

I've made interest free loans to my wifes family and been repaid in every case. I did the same for my own kids. I'm not suggesting that anyone throw away money on people who are not willing to work hard for themselves. That is the point. When I get to know these people and their character I am comfortable helping and my wife who is half of this relationship and has her own priorities. I have several friends who buy a new car when they want or new TV's etc but refuse to give their wives anything beyond a meager allowance. They are more slave than wife.

As for your assessment of Thailand being riddled with crime I suggest you visit the average US city these days or read about the crime. This is a country that has the highest number of police per capita in the world. I'll take Thai community any day. Maybe you should jump down off your bar stool and meet some hardworking Thais and get a more accurate picture. If all you know is bar girls it's no wonder you think the way that you do.

Wow talk about failure to communicate. Was my post that confusing to you that you got this out of it?

Your first paragraph you appear to read a lot more into it than is there. I simply state before you can help others you must be able to take care of yourself.You seem to be looking for a hidden meaning cannot understand why.

Then you attack with helpng the old in the family. In my family in Canada we are one of the few left that keep our old at home and take care of them rather than send them to old folks homes.That is simply respecting those before you who gave you the tools to survive and be who you are . It has nothing to do with assisting capable people make their way in life.

Now the socialism issue. I am Canadain and know of what I speak here i watched socialism erode my country. I also talk to Swedes and Norwegians and they say the same I do. You can quote what ever you like but if people feel it I then feel it is real.

Interest free loans is commendable but like I said help those who are willing to help themsleves and it sounds like this was simply a case of that why use that against me?You lent they paid it back you how does that vary from what I said about getting rewards for your time and effort. You helped them they appreciated it paid you back and moved forward.

As to being riddled with crime where did I say that.?I ask do you see low crime, big difference. Do you have problem understanding the written word?

And the final part about getting off my bar stool and meeting good middle class people you are so way off. I donot drink,smoke or do drugs. And because of my outlook on things all my friends in Thailand are respected Thais. I dotnot know a bargirl except when I meet a foreigner and he has one with him.

I used to like your posts I felt you made some sense sometimes but this one was so out in leftfield it makes me wonder if you have a chemical balance issue you should get checked.

There was nothing confusing about your post or my response. I agreed with you about using good judgement when considering helping another. You never mentioned helping your family in Canada and I am not a mind reader. You stated that the best way to help someone was to let them help themselves and I responded that it is a lot easier to do that when there is the opportunity for one to actually do that. I am 59 years old and a highly skilled paper manufacturing engineer, but I am certain that I would not be able to find a satisfactory job in the US if I needed to. That is not due to any lack of ability on my part it is because of poor management of the US economy which has ruined opportunity for everyone.

As for your rant on socialism, I gave you specific examples of countries which are considered socialistic leaning, but provide the "help" to their citizens so that they increase their chances for success.. The result of those socialistic programs is that citizens do not have to face bankruptcy if they get sick. Because there are educational opportunities citizens do not have to take on huge debt to become educated, crime is lower and the governments encourage long term sustainability of it's core industries. All of this comes at a cost of course. The cost is that CEO's do not earn 400 times more than the individual who actually makes a product. I would add that these "socialistic" countries are not risking social unrest and creating suffering due to economic mismanagement.

Apparently you don't understand your own words because what you did say about Thailand is;

" Look at Thaialnd, family is everything. Do you see behaved youth, low crime,a strong middle class,good community values,low domestic violence and I could go on but will stop there. You donot see any of this. Do you ask why? Well because the family assists no matter how terrible the person is or what they have done. No accountability.The family protects and nurtures to a point of complete failure".

Then you go on to say that all of the Thai's that YOU know are respected Thai's. So, which is it? If all of the Thai's that you know are respected Thai's than where does your low opinion of Thai culture come from? Do you have and proof to back up your any of your statements?

My experence is different. After 5 years here and being married to a Thai and having a Thai family to observe what I see is hardworking, honorable Thai's who DO teach their children to be accountable. The only ones who don't fit that model are those involved in the sex industry and the tourist scammers that I don't come in contact with. I certainly know that they are here because I read about them, but any objective view of Thailand understands that they are a very small part of the culture.

I read your words and I responded. Any confusion seems to be on your part to be clear about what you feel about Thailand.

[lovelomsak]

Since you brought it up I will reply. Different families different values. Everyone deals with the same family problem different and every family develops different ways of dealing with problems and helping.

I am a loner and proud of it. My family values were such that a man must first and formost be able to take care of himself and not be a burden to others. First you take care of yourself. Second you take care of those close to you( immediate family) Third you take care of extented family. Fourth you assist the community. It is like oxygen masks in an airplane put yours on first before assisting others.

If a person cannot take care of themselves how the heck can they assist others. They themselves are in need if unable to care for themselves. The theory is simple. If everyone worked at taking care of themselves,few people would need help.

People donot like loners like myself because I say what I think is right and live by it. I am in my 60's. I make no demands on others for help but give assistance to a degree to others. I am a strong believer in many cases that the best thing you can do for a person is nothing. Too much help defeats the purpose. People need to work their own way out of their own problems that builds character and selfworth.Take a look at socialist countries and tell me what good it has done them. Conquering adversity gives a person strengh. Helping them too much makes them dependent.

Look at Thaialnd, family is everything. Do you see behaved youth, low crime,a strong middle class,good community values,low domestic violence and I could go on but will stop there. You donot see any of this. Do you ask why? Well because the family assists no matter how terrible the person is or what they have done. No accountability.The family protects and nurtures to a point of complete failure.

All that said I should mention helping someone who is already helping them selves and speeding up the process is a very good investment of time and energy.Giving support to an person making the effort is the way to go. You will see reward for your effort in the way of helping a person willing to do their part in bettering themselves and others they are close to.

I too am a loner, but what does that have to do with helping others. IT is because I'm a loner and didn't throw money away that I am fortunate enough to have some to help. You use the example of the oxygen masks where you put yours on and THEN ASSIST OTHERS. Which is it assist if you can afford it or not assist under any circumstances?

It is true that people have to learn to live on their own two feet. My wife's grandparents took her in when she was 4 months old. Poor rice farmers they did not hesitate to care for her and raise her to be a Honorable woman. They were poor, but they shared what they had. When we met she was supporting them from her earnings and I agreed that WE should continue to support them. They are in their 80's, are you suggesting that they should continue to farm rice? We discussed all of these support issues and agreed to our present arrangement upfront. She is my wife not an employee, she is entitled to share the lifestyle that WE are capable of sustaining. I see some guys looking to have a Thai wife on the cheap and refuse to recognize that even the law says that she has a right to share in the benefits of the relationship.

I don't know where you grew up but your so called socialist countries are home to the happiest most productive people in the world. I'm talking functional countries like Finland, Sweden, Norway and some other European countries that actuall seem to care about their citizens. Please explain to me how the current adversity of unemployment and war and unequal opportunity builds character? More US veterans in have committed suicide than have died in the wars they fought since Vietnam. There are many young ambitious people graduating from universities who will not have a job because the rich have wrecked the US economy. I suppose that will just make them stronger. To starve and live on the street with little opportunity.

I've made interest free loans to my wifes family and been repaid in every case. I did the same for my own kids. I'm not suggesting that anyone throw away money on people who are not willing to work hard for themselves. That is the point. When I get to know these people and their character I am comfortable helping and my wife who is half of this relationship and has her own priorities. I have several friends who buy a new car when they want or new TV's etc but refuse to give their wives anything beyond a meager allowance. They are more slave than wife.

As for your assessment of Thailand being riddled with crime I suggest you visit the average US city these days or read about the crime. This is a country that has the highest number of police per capita in the world. I'll take Thai community any day. Maybe you should jump down off your bar stool and meet some hardworking Thais and get a more accurate picture. If all you know is bar girls it's no wonder you think the way that you do.

Wow talk about failure to communicate. Was my post that confusing to you that you got this out of it?

Your first paragraph you appear to read a lot more into it than is there. I simply state before you can help others you must be able to take care of yourself.You seem to be looking for a hidden meaning cannot understand why.

Then you attack with helpng the old in the family. In my family in Canada we are one of the few left that keep our old at home and take care of them rather than send them to old folks homes.That is simply respecting those before you who gave you the tools to survive and be who you are . It has nothing to do with assisting capable people make their way in life.

Now the socialism issue. I am Canadain and know of what I speak here i watched socialism erode my country. I also talk to Swedes and Norwegians and they say the same I do. You can quote what ever you like but if people feel it I then feel it is real.

Interest free loans is commendable but like I said help those who are willing to help themsleves and it sounds like this was simply a case of that why use that against me?You lent they paid it back you how does that vary from what I said about getting rewards for your time and effort. You helped them they appreciated it paid you back and moved forward.

As to being riddled with crime where did I say that.?I ask do you see low crime, big difference. Do you have problem understanding the written word?

And the final part about getting off my bar stool and meeting good middle class people you are so way off. I donot drink,smoke or do drugs. And because of my outlook on things all my friends in Thailand are respected Thais. I dotnot know a bargirl except when I meet a foreigner and he has one with him.

I used to like your posts I felt you made some sense sometimes but this one was so out in leftfield it makes me wonder if you have a chemical balance issue you should get checked.

There was nothing confusing about your post or my response. I agreed with you about using good judgement when considering helping another. You never mentioned helping your family in Canada and I am not a mind reader. You stated that the best way to help someone was to let them help themselves and I responded that it is a lot easier to do that when there is the opportunity for one to actually do that. I am 59 years old and a highly skilled paper manufacturing engineer, but I am certain that I would not be able to find a satisfactory job in the US if I needed to. That is not due to any lack of ability on my part it is because of poor management of the US economy which has ruined opportunity for everyone.

As for your rant on socialism, I gave you specific examples of countries which are considered socialistic leaning, but provide the "help" to their citizens so that they increase their chances for success.. The result of those socialistic programs is that citizens do not have to face bankruptcy if they get sick. Because there are educational opportunities citizens do not have to take on huge debt to become educated, crime is lower and the governments encourage long term sustainability of it's core industries. All of this comes at a cost of course. The cost is that CEO's do not earn 400 times more than the individual who actually makes a product. I would add that these "socialistic" countries are not risking social unrest and creating suffering due to economic mismanagement.

Apparently you don't understand your own words because what you did say about Thailand is;

" Look at Thaialnd, family is everything. Do you see behaved youth, low crime,a strong middle class,good community values,low domestic violence and I could go on but will stop there. You donot see any of this. Do you ask why? Well because the family assists no matter how terrible the person is or what they have done. No accountability.The family protects and nurtures to a point of complete failure".

Then you go on to say that all of the Thai's that YOU know are respected Thai's. So, which is it? If all of the Thai's that you know are respected Thai's than where does your low opinion of Thai culture come from? Do you have and proof to back up your any of your statements?

My experence is different. After 5 years here and being married to a Thai and having a Thai family to observe what I see is hardworking, honorable Thai's who DO teach their children to be accountable. The only ones who don't fit that model are those involved in the sex industry and the tourist scammers that I don't come in contact with. I certainly know that they are here because I read about them, but any objective view of Thailand understands that they are a very small part of the culture.

I read your words and I responded. Any confusion seems to be on your part to be clear about what you feel about Thailand.

TRisailor You creat arquements that hold little validity. It looks to me like you just like to arque.

I was using my parents being taken care of same as you were stating you take care of your wifes grandparents. When i answer try to relate what you wrote to best understand what I am sayin To just attack what is an answer to your statements is just aggression with out value.This is what I hate about forums constantly having to go back and clean up garbage debates, because people donot have the ability or donot wish to really discuss but control.

If you follow my last post I answer each one of your statements paragraph by paragraph in order. Read your paragraphs one at a timeand then mine you will see I am replying to you.

As far as socialism goes you have no concept of what life is in a socialist country but feel you know so much about it. Mine wasnot a rant either. It is reality socialism is a failed way.

You really do have a conceptual problem I believe . You state I have said all the Thais I know are respected Thais. I said my friends are respected Thais. I know many Thais.Besides this isnot about Thais and to develop that area of the thread to any extent is avoiding the real thread and diverting the topic to add confusion, and distract from the real topic.

I feel I am clear ,but feel you have poor comprehension of written word. I am not prone to low attacks such as yourself to be in control but cannot turn down this opportunity to defend myself at the low level you have brought part of this too. You called me a drunk barstool ,bargirl man without any evidence , just to attack and belittle me.So I shall call you a Redneck American who got lucky and thinks he knows it all, Life blessed you in some areas but you have many short comings in understanding real discussion.

Edited June 12, 2011 by lovelomsak

[honkytonklagoon]

Nice post Lovelomsak.

I am a loner too, and i'm half your age. I got bored of hanging out in my group and just prefer to be alone.

THREE CHEERS FOR THE LONERS, HIP HIP etc etc LONERS ROCK BABY, YEAH! Being a loner is a bit strange for the Thais to comprehend though, I try explaing I like/want/need to be alone and they dont get it.

[Forethat]

It seems that many here on TV have not received the upbringing in how to treat family members. I was raised to take care of my family, the core family is the most important thing you can have in your life. When I read all the posts about the farang who refuse to take care of the in-laws, so I wonder what kind of family relationship they come from. Have you never experienced a family relationship where you come from, you do not help each other in your family back home.

If my Mom had problems at home and my wife had refused to help, so I had separated myself from her.

So what is your philosophy of life when it`s not taking care of the family you marry into? And I 'feel that many saves money to a divorce, your just sitting and waiting for the big bang.

Keep your in-laws happy, so you get much better life with your wife.

As many have already pointed out (so I hope!), your opinion is as good as anyone else's. It should be pointed out that a multicultural marriage is exactly that - multicultural - and that many westerners oppose expectations that one party alone shall adjust to whatever the culture is, or at least reserve the right not to fulfill every wish the other can come up with – whatever they may be.

In a majority of third world countries it is customary to breed as many children as you can and use that offspring as a source of income. To make things worse, a lot of the revenue generated by named offspring is habitually wasted on cigarettes, whisky and gambling - you don't have to travel far in LOS before you'll realise the amount of money spent on useless crap like this far exceeds the amount spent on education for the children. To be honest, I have travelled extensively in LOS and in a scary number of cases the idea of school is non-existent. Most families can't wait to send their children away to work somewhere so they can start send money back home.

This is the culture to which many farangs marries a young girl, many times they originate from remote villages in Isaan, and your concern is that these farangs hasn't "received the upbringing in how to treat family members"?

Personally, I can't decide who to feel most sorry for – the poor family in Isaan or the stupid farang who doesn't realize that HE is partly responsible for many of the Isaan children who will never get an education, who's only hope is that they one day can breed a couple of children and send them away to work in a factory or why not in a massage parlor somewhere in the big city. If they're real lucky they'll score the big prize, the daughter marries a stupid farang who will pretty much guarantee they will not be short of whisky- and cigarettes the upcoming years. And if they are REAL lucky, they can start thinking about that new pickup-truck, and why not a new motosai? Good thing they didn't wasted this opportunity by sending their daughter to school, that would have been a stupid investment!

Good Luck to ya, Eirik!!

[wannascuba]

The Topic should be "Loners and Family Values​​."

I am a Loner and also take care of my Family when able....But, the Topic should be Mr. Eirk Joannesen is superior to everyone else because he is not a loner and has better family values. Although I ponder if his financial situation were to change for the worse, his wife and in-laws may not be so accommodating if they had to support him.

[trisailer]

So far your response has been to complain about my misunderstanding of your post, but you still have not backed up anything you've claimed with facts.

I don't have to live in a socialist country to understand what socialism is. That's what education is for. Last I knew Canada was not considered a socialist country and if your talking about health care you should say so. If you have a specific complaint with the way your government manages things than you should say it. If you say it back it up with objective facts.

By over a ten to one margin, Canadians prefer their own health care system over (US) ours (82%-8%). 70% of them are either fairly satisfied, or very satisfied with the system.

These are the results of a Harris/Decima poll published on July 5.

These are facts, feel free to discuss the facts because what you think or what I think matters little. Your entire post is complaining about my inability to understand you and that is not the case. I understand perfectly what your saying, I just disagree with it. You made statements which I think are inaccurate and insulting about the Thai people. Would you make these same statements to your "respectable Thai friends?" You may get support of your disrespectful comments from the TV crowd, but not from me.

You haven't responded to my comment asking you if you know so many respectable Thai's than where do you get the idea that "Thai's do not teach their children accountability?" Where do you get the idea that crime is worse here? Domestic Violence is worse here? Youth are poorly behaved here? No community values here? You said that you don't "see any of this" You said that you see "no accountability" I'm just asking how you see all of that when all you know are respectable Thai's. I only see the kinds of issues that you claimed among low class Thai's. All of the Thai's that I know are honorable, hardworking people. Why don't you back up your claims?

Your the one who made the claims. I don't think that your claims are objective or representative of the real Thailand, but they do sound suspiciously like the claims of a farang who only knows low class bar girl types. Call me a redneck if you like but you are not making a very convincing, objective, educated argument. Feel free to start making one anytime.

[trisailer]

When my wife and I decided to explore a permanent relationship we had long conversations about what my expectations would be and what hers were. We made agreements based upon those conversations. We were together for a year before we were married and so I was able to establish her character to determine that she was in fact capable of keeping the agreements that she made.

What is surprising to me is how little effort that most men put into determining what the woman that they are going to marry expect from them. What little effort goes into determining what her character is, weather she is a honorable person who values her integrity. Later in the relationship when she is demanding money and investment in houses and sick buffalo's they seem to be completely blindsided. Then they only want to blame all the Thai people for their own incompetence.

We do what we do because it is the right thing to do. I like to think that if I were ever in need that my wifes family would welcome assisting me, but my decision to help them is not based on expecting anything in return. The assets that we are fortunate to have are our assets and if we do not manage them well than she will not have them after I'm gone. Any intelligent person can see that.

[kerryk]

When my wife and I decided to explore a permanent relationship we had long conversations about what my expectations would be and what hers were. We made agreements based upon those conversations. We were together for a year before we were married and so I was able to establish her character to determine that she was in fact capable of keeping the agreements that she made.

What is surprising to me is how little effort that most men put into determining what the woman that they are going to marry expect from them. What little effort goes into determining what her character is, weather she is a honorable person who values her integrity. Later in the relationship when she is demanding money and investment in houses and sick buffalo's they seem to be completely blindsided. Then they only want to blame all the Thai people for their own incompetence.

We do what we do because it is the right thing to do. I like to think that if I were ever in need that my wifes family would welcome assisting me, but my decision to help them is not based on expecting anything in return. The assets that we are fortunate to have are our assets and if we do not manage them well than she will not have them after I'm gone. Any intelligent person can see that.

My wife was an absolute gem of a woman till I moved her off the farm to the city and educated her.

Then after five years of marriage she turned into a hellion.

Don't know whether it was the five years of marriage to me or education or city life that changed her or a combination of all three.

Although I agree with the logic of a long courtship I would point out arranged marriages have just as high a success rate as love matches.

Any way you look at it it's a coin toss. 50% is going to be heads and 50% tails.

I wonder at the intelligence of a man who enters into a proposition with only 50/50 odds of success.

[EirikJohannesen]

It seems that many here on TV have not received the upbringing in how to treat family members. I was raised to take care of my family, the core family is the most important thing you can have in your life. When I read all the posts about the farang who refuse to take care of the in-laws, so I wonder what kind of family relationship they come from. Have you never experienced a family relationship where you come from, you do not help each other in your family back home.

If my Mom had problems at home and my wife had refused to help, so I had separated myself from her.

So what is your philosophy of life when it`s not taking care of the family you marry into? And I 'feel that many saves money to a divorce, your just sitting and waiting for the big bang.

Keep your in-laws happy, so you get much better life with your wife.

As many have already pointed out (so I hope!), your opinion is as good as anyone else's. It should be pointed out that a multicultural marriage is exactly that - multicultural - and that many westerners oppose expectations that one party alone shall adjust to whatever the culture is, or at least reserve the right not to fulfill every wish the other can come up with – whatever they may be.

In a majority of third world countries it is customary to breed as many children as you can and use that offspring as a source of income. To make things worse, a lot of the revenue generated by named offspring is habitually wasted on cigarettes, whisky and gambling - you don't have to travel far in LOS before you'll realise the amount of money spent on useless crap like this far exceeds the amount spent on education for the children. To be honest, I have travelled extensively in LOS and in a scary number of cases the idea of school is non-existent. Most families can't wait to send their children away to work somewhere so they can start send money back home.

This is the culture to which many farangs marries a young girl, many times they originate from remote villages in Isaan, and your concern is that these farangs hasn't "received the upbringing in how to treat family members"?

Personally, I can't decide who to feel most sorry for – the poor family in Isaan or the stupid farang who doesn't realize that HE is partly responsible for many of the Isaan children who will never get an education, who's only hope is that they one day can breed a couple of children and send them away to work in a factory or why not in a massage parlor somewhere in the big city. If they're real lucky they'll score the big prize, the daughter marries a stupid farang who will pretty much guarantee they will not be short of whisky- and cigarettes the upcoming years. And if they are REAL lucky, they can start thinking about that new pickup-truck, and why not a new motosai? Good thing they didn't wasted this opportunity by sending their daughter to school, that would have been a stupid investment!

Good Luck to ya, Eirik!!

There is nothing called the third world, it's called developing countries and Thailand is not a developing countries. the rest of what you write is also partly just nonsense.

[EirikJohannesen]

When my wife and I decided to explore a permanent relationship we had long conversations about what my expectations would be and what hers were. We made agreements based upon those conversations. We were together for a year before we were married and so I was able to establish her character to determine that she was in fact capable of keeping the agreements that she made.

What is surprising to me is how little effort that most men put into determining what the woman that they are going to marry expect from them. What little effort goes into determining what her character is, weather she is a honorable person who values her integrity. Later in the relationship when she is demanding money and investment in houses and sick buffalo's they seem to be completely blindsided. Then they only want to blame all the Thai people for their own incompetence.

We do what we do because it is the right thing to do. I like to think that if I were ever in need that my wifes family would welcome assisting me, but my decision to help them is not based on expecting anything in return. The assets that we are fortunate to have are our assets and if we do not manage them well than she will not have them after I'm gone. Any intelligent person can see that.

Yes it is amazing to see how many is uncritical in the choice of. life partner. first and best girl in the bar and then they go to get married. But it gives us an indication of the intelligence level of many farang here.

[lovelomsak]

So far your response has been to complain about my misunderstanding of your post, but you still have not backed up anything you've claimed with facts.

I don't have to live in a socialist country to understand what socialism is. That's what education is for. Last I knew Canada was not considered a socialist country and if your talking about health care you should say so. If you have a specific complaint with the way your government manages things than you should say it. If you say it back it up with objective facts.

By over a ten to one margin, Canadians prefer their own health care system over (US) ours (82%-8%). 70% of them are either fairly satisfied, or very satisfied with the system.

These are the results of a Harris/Decima poll published on July 5.

These are facts, feel free to discuss the facts because what you think or what I think matters little. Your entire post is complaining about my inability to understand you and that is not the case. I understand perfectly what your saying, I just disagree with it. You made statements which I think are inaccurate and insulting about the Thai people. Would you make these same statements to your "respectable Thai friends?" You may get support of your disrespectful comments from the TV crowd, but not from me.

You haven't responded to my comment asking you if you know so many respectable Thai's than where do you get the idea that "Thai's do not teach their children accountability?" Where do you get the idea that crime is worse here? Domestic Violence is worse here? Youth are poorly behaved here? No community values here? You said that you don't "see any of this" You said that you see "no accountability" I'm just asking how you see all of that when all you know are respectable Thai's. I only see the kinds of issues that you claimed among low class Thai's. All of the Thai's that I know are honorable, hardworking people. Why don't you back up your claims?

Your the one who made the claims. I don't think that your claims are objective or representative of the real Thailand, but they do sound suspiciously like the claims of a farang who only knows low class bar girl types. Call me a redneck if you like but you are not making a very convincing, objective, educated argument. Feel free to start making one anytime.

Ok I wil try again to bring reality home to you.

I shall reply to each paragraph of yours in the same order try to match them up please. If you cannot do that I will understand.

I amnot complaining about misunderstanding I am pointing them out quite a difference.

We Canadians like to think of ourrselves living in a socialist country. I didnot know we had to check with others to see if we meet the criteria.

Medicare- It has its good and its bad .Over time it has become more bad than good. I am for medicare but not the direction it is taking in Canada.BC one of our most socialist provinces medicare is failing its people. I used to date the woman who ran Fraser Valley medical services. So I had everyday knowedge of what was taking place to a certain point but not all. BC has been closing down its hospitals and services regularly for the last 10 years or so. Many people in rural areas now have to drive 200 to 300 kilometers to receive medical care because of this. If it is after 8 pm they may have to drive even further. Many medical services that used to be 24/7 are now 8 to 8 monday to friday. As my sister told me in an email from BC if you are going to be sick or injured do it between 8 in the morning and 8 at night. 6 hour waits for xrays in medical centers are common because of cutbacks. Unless you have influence or money you can wait 2 or 3 years for operations. People die waiting. Private firms are now established and the government states they are necessary because of work overload and advise people if they cannot wait to go there.. I used to yacht race against against the man who owns the largest privately owned healthcare company in North America. His company supplies all the nursing help for federal and provincial work places in Canada I am not sure about America..He has one of the most competitive boats on the water. I could go on I just want you to know you donot have the foggist idea what you are talking about here using the criteris you use. We can all research to find what we want to back up out arguements but being in the know is something else.

Now comments I have made about Thailand . I didnot say crime and domestic violence was worse where do you get this crap. You read far to much between the lines .What i mentioned in my first post are things I do discuss with my Thai friends that is how I have become aware of it, they point it out to me.So yes I would say to my friends what I say here.You are so off base I really am sure you have a chemical imbalance.

Last one your suspicions are very off base. Thanks for letting me call you Redneck because that is what you come across as. Donot read or listen well.Hear what you want to hear, read what you think is there.

Lastly this is going no where so I feel it is pretty well a waste of time to keep coming back here to clarify things when you apparently arenot open to accepting simple truths about Canada,socialism and,medicare. Things you have read about or can research (facts) for but have no real understanding of.And your mind set I learn from bargirls even after I pointed out I donot associate with them, drink,smoke or do drugs. Also those things have nothing to do with this thread and is way off topic and attacking me more than adding to this thread. And i realy donot like having to defend myself by opening up about some things.

Edited June 12, 2011 by lovelomsak

[trisailer]

I think I've made my point and you have made yours, let's leave it at that.

[uptheos]

Yes it is amazing to see how many is uncritical in the choice of. life partner. first and best girl in the bar and then they go to get married. But it gives us an indication of the intelligence level of many farang here.

Best girl in a bar??

After years of reading TV, I get the impression most guys here met their wives in church.........

...........whilst listening to the sermon in Thai.

Edited June 12, 2011 by uptheos

[tigerfish]

Yes it is amazing to see how many is uncritical in the choice of. life partner. first and best girl in the bar and then they go to get married. But it gives us an indication of the intelligence level of many farang here.

Best girl in a bar??

After years of reading TV, I get the impression most guys here met their wives in church.........

...........whilst listening to the sermon in Thai.

and the preacher wouldn't happen to have been by any chance a certain EirikJohannesen would it.

in perfect Thai of course.

Edited June 12, 2011 by tigerfish

[Forethat]

There is nothing called the third world, it's called developing countries and Thailand is not a developing countries. the rest of what you write is also partly just nonsense.

On the contrary. IMF (International Monetary Fund) is the organ responsible for evaluating and classifying countries as developed, emerging or developing countries. In case you wondered, Thailand is on the list of developing countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund

http://www.imf.org/external/country/THA/index.htm

[trisailer]

So far your response has been to complain about my misunderstanding of your post, but you still have not backed up anything you've claimed with facts.

I don't have to live in a socialist country to understand what socialism is. That's what education is for. Last I knew Canada was not considered a socialist country and if your talking about health care you should say so. If you have a specific complaint with the way your government manages things than you should say it. If you say it back it up with objective facts.

By over a ten to one margin, Canadians prefer their own health care system over (US) ours (82%-8%). 70% of them are either fairly satisfied, or very satisfied with the system.

These are the results of a Harris/Decima poll published on July 5.

These are facts, feel free to discuss the facts because what you think or what I think matters little. Your entire post is complaining about my inability to understand you and that is not the case. I understand perfectly what your saying, I just disagree with it. You made statements which I think are inaccurate and insulting about the Thai people. Would you make these same statements to your "respectable Thai friends?" You may get support of your disrespectful comments from the TV crowd, but not from me.

You haven't responded to my comment asking you if you know so many respectable Thai's than where do you get the idea that "Thai's do not teach their children accountability?" Where do you get the idea that crime is worse here? Domestic Violence is worse here? Youth are poorly behaved here? No community values here? You said that you don't "see any of this" You said that you see "no accountability" I'm just asking how you see all of that when all you know are respectable Thai's. I only see the kinds of issues that you claimed among low class Thai's. All of the Thai's that I know are honorable, hardworking people. Why don't you back up your claims?

Your the one who made the claims. I don't think that your claims are objective or representative of the real Thailand, but they do sound suspiciously like the claims of a farang who only knows low class bar girl types. Call me a redneck if you like but you are not making a very convincing, objective, educated argument. Feel free to start making one anytime.

Ok I wil try again to bring reality home to you.

I shall reply to each paragraph of yours in the same order try to match them up please. If you cannot do that I will understand.

I amnot complaining about misunderstanding I am pointing them out quite a difference.

We Canadians like to think of ourselves living in a socialist country. I didnot know we had to check with others to see if we meet the criteria.

Medicare- It has its good and its bad .Over time it has become more bad than good. I am for medicare but not the direction it is taking in Canada.BC one of our most socialist provinces medicare is failing its people. I used to date the woman who ran Fraser Valley medical services. So I had everyday knowedge of what was taking place to a certain point but not all. BC has been closing down its hospitals and services regularly for the last 10 years or so. Many people in rural areas now have to drive 200 to 300 kilometers to receive medical care because of this. If it is after 8 pm they may have to drive even further. Many medical services that used to be 24/7 are now 8 to 8 monday to friday. As my sister told me in an email from BC if you are going to be sick or injured do it between 8 in the morning and 8 at night. 6 hour waits for xrays in medical centers are common because of cutbacks. Unless you have influence or money you can wait 2 or 3 years for operations. People die waiting. Private firms are now established and the government states they are necessary because of work overload and advise people if they cannot wait to go there.. I used to yacht race against against the man who owns the largest privately owned healthcare company in North America. His company supplies all the nursing help for federal and provincial work places in Canada I am not sure about America..He has one of the most competitive boats on the water. I could go on I just want you to know you donot have the foggist idea what you are talking about here using the criteris you use. We can all research to find what we want to back up out arguements but being in the know is something else.

Now comments I have made about Thailand . I didnot say crime and domestic violence was worse where do you get this crap. You read far to much between the lines .What i mentioned in my first post are things I do discuss with my Thai friends that is how I have become aware of it, they point it out to me.So yes I would say to my friends what I say here.You are so off base I really am sure you have a chemical imbalance.

Last one your suspicions are very off base. Thanks for letting me call you Redneck because that is what you come across as. Donot read or listen well.Hear what you want to hear, read what you think is there.

Lastly this is going no where so I feel it is pretty well a waste of time to keep coming back here to clarify things when you apparently arenot open to accepting simple truths about Canada,socialism and,medicare. Things you have read about or can research (facts) for but have no real understanding of.And your mind set I learn from bargirls even after I pointed out I donot associate with them, drink,smoke or do drugs. Also those things have nothing to do with this thread and is way off topic and attacking me more than adding to this thread. And i realy donot like having to defend myself by opening up about some things.

You know, I was going to let this pass, but you are so far off base and insulting that I can't.

If there is a reality that needs to be brought home it is to you, not to me. You said; "We Cananians like to think of ourselves as living in a Socialist country" What you should have said is that YOU think of Canada as a socialist country. I pointed out to you that Canadian's (that's all Canadians) prefer their healthcare system over the US system by a factor of 10 to 1.

You are certainly intittled to have your own opinion about your system, but you don't speak for ALL CANADIANS. The fact is that Canadians do not think of themselves as socialist and any academic evaluation of the Canadian economy would not call it a socialist country. Canada is a capitalistic, market economy.

You gave some second hand examples of how a friend of a friend said this or that but it is not objective information. I can give you thousands of examples of problems with the US medical system, but the only thing that is meaning full is OBJECTIVE analysis. Maybe you should "check with others" to learn what the facts are in the country you live in.

You did say insulting things about Thailand, quote; "Conquering adversity gives a person strength. Helping them too much makes them dependent.

Look at Thailand, family is everything. Do you see behaved youth, low crime,a strong middle class,good community values,low domestic violence and I could go on but will stop there. You donot see any of this." These are your words. Any reasonable person would interpret them as meaning that Thailand claims to have family values. but YOU don't see any good results. If someone has a chemical imbalance it is not me. I understand what you said apparently your the one who doesn't have any specific facts to back up your degrading comments.

You were not clear about which of my "suspicions" are off base. Since you never responded to any of my comments except to call names and insult me. If you were capable of making a point and backing it up with objective facts than perhaps I would not be so confused. Normally when I discuss a topic with someone they are capable of making a logical point and not babbling on about my lack of understanding

Researching objective information is what gives us the ability to make intelligent choices in life. If you chose to base your life on your "loner" closed fact less world than feel free to do it, but when you make insulting comments you should be capable of defending them without all the name calling. It only makes you look foolish in spite of your name dropping "important people" I doubt that your even a sailor who races boats. My opinion that you have made assumptions about Thailand based upon your personal experiences with bar girls stands since you have failed to provide any evidence that might show that you have a balanced view.

BTW, if you want to make a intelligent case for your view, you might start by learning grammer and composition.

[lovelaos]

So far your response has been to complain about my misunderstanding of your post, but you still have not backed up anything you've claimed with facts.

I don't have to live in a socialist country to understand what socialism is. That's what education is for. Last I knew Canada was not considered a socialist country and if your talking about health care you should say so. If you have a specific complaint with the way your government manages things than you should say it. If you say it back it up with objective facts.

By over a ten to one margin, Canadians prefer their own health care system over (US) ours (82%-8%). 70% of them are either fairly satisfied, or very satisfied with the system.

These are the results of a Harris/Decima poll published on July 5.

These are facts, feel free to discuss the facts because what you think or what I think matters little. Your entire post is complaining about my inability to understand you and that is not the case. I understand perfectly what your saying, I just disagree with it. You made statements which I think are inaccurate and insulting about the Thai people. Would you make these same statements to your "respectable Thai friends?" You may get support of your disrespectful comments from the TV crowd, but not from me.

You haven't responded to my comment asking you if you know so many respectable Thai's than where do you get the idea that "Thai's do not teach their children accountability?" Where do you get the idea that crime is worse here? Domestic Violence is worse here? Youth are poorly behaved here? No community values here? You said that you don't "see any of this" You said that you see "no accountability" I'm just asking how you see all of that when all you know are respectable Thai's. I only see the kinds of issues that you claimed among low class Thai's. All of the Thai's that I know are honorable, hardworking people. Why don't you back up your claims?

Your the one who made the claims. I don't think that your claims are objective or representative of the real Thailand, but they do sound suspiciously like the claims of a farang who only knows low class bar girl types. Call me a redneck if you like but you are not making a very convincing, objective, educated argument. Feel free to start making one anytime.

Ok I wil try again to bring reality home to you.

I shall reply to each paragraph of yours in the same order try to match them up please. If you cannot do that I will understand.

I amnot complaining about misunderstanding I am pointing them out quite a difference.

We Canadians like to think of ourselves living in a socialist country. I didnot know we had to check with others to see if we meet the criteria.

Medicare- It has its good and its bad .Over time it has become more bad than good. I am for medicare but not the direction it is taking in Canada.BC one of our most socialist provinces medicare is failing its people. I used to date the woman who ran Fraser Valley medical services. So I had everyday knowedge of what was taking place to a certain point but not all. BC has been closing down its hospitals and services regularly for the last 10 years or so. Many people in rural areas now have to drive 200 to 300 kilometers to receive medical care because of this. If it is after 8 pm they may have to drive even further. Many medical services that used to be 24/7 are now 8 to 8 monday to friday. As my sister told me in an email from BC if you are going to be sick or injured do it between 8 in the morning and 8 at night. 6 hour waits for xrays in medical centers are common because of cutbacks. Unless you have influence or money you can wait 2 or 3 years for operations. People die waiting. Private firms are now established and the government states they are necessary because of work overload and advise people if they cannot wait to go there.. I used to yacht race against against the man who owns the largest privately owned healthcare company in North America. His company supplies all the nursing help for federal and provincial work places in Canada I am not sure about America..He has one of the most competitive boats on the water. I could go on I just want you to know you donot have the foggist idea what you are talking about here using the criteris you use. We can all research to find what we want to back up out arguements but being in the know is something else.

Now comments I have made about Thailand . I didnot say crime and domestic violence was worse where do you get this crap. You read far to much between the lines .What i mentioned in my first post are things I do discuss with my Thai friends that is how I have become aware of it, they point it out to me.So yes I would say to my friends what I say here.You are so off base I really am sure you have a chemical imbalance.

Last one your suspicions are very off base. Thanks for letting me call you Redneck because that is what you come across as. Donot read or listen well.Hear what you want to hear, read what you think is there.

Lastly this is going no where so I feel it is pretty well a waste of time to keep coming back here to clarify things when you apparently arenot open to accepting simple truths about Canada,socialism and,medicare. Things you have read about or can research (facts) for but have no real understanding of.And your mind set I learn from bargirls even after I pointed out I donot associate with them, drink,smoke or do drugs. Also those things have nothing to do with this thread and is way off topic and attacking me more than adding to this thread. And i realy donot like having to defend myself by opening up about some things.

You know, I was going to let this pass, but you are so far off base and insulting that I can't.

If there is a reality that needs to be brought home it is to you, not to me. You said; "We Cananians like to think of ourselves as living in a Socialist country" What you should have said is that YOU think of Canada as a socialist country. I pointed out to you that Canadian's (that's all Canadians) prefer their healthcare system over the US system by a factor of 10 to 1.

You are certainly intittled to have your own opinion about your system, but you don't speak for ALL CANADIANS. The fact is that Canadians do not think of themselves as socialist and any academic evaluation of the Canadian economy would not call it a socialist country. Canada is a capitalistic, market economy.

You gave some second hand examples of how a friend of a friend said this or that but it is not objective information. I can give you thousands of examples of problems with the US medical system, but the only thing that is meaning full is OBJECTIVE analysis. Maybe you should "check with others" to learn what the facts are in the country you live in.

You did say insulting things about Thailand, quote; "Conquering adversity gives a person strength. Helping them too much makes them dependent.

Look at Thailand, family is everything. Do you see behaved youth, low crime,a strong middle class,good community values,low domestic violence and I could go on but will stop there. You donot see any of this." These are your words. Any reasonable person would interpret them as meaning that Thailand claims to have family values. but YOU don't see any good results. If someone has a chemical imbalance it is not me. I understand what you said apparently your the one who doesn't have any specific facts to back up your degrading comments.

You were not clear about which of my "suspicions" are off base. Since you never responded to any of my comments except to call names and insult me. If you were capable of making a point and backing it up with objective facts than perhaps I would not be so confused. Normally when I discuss a topic with someone they are capable of making a logical point and not babbling on about my lack of understanding

Researching objective information is what gives us the ability to make intelligent choices in life. If you chose to base your life on your "loner" closed fact less world than feel free to do it, but when you make insulting comments you should be capable of defending them without all the name calling. It only makes you look foolish in spite of your name dropping "important people" I doubt that your even a sailor who races boats. My opinion that you have made assumptions about Thailand based upon your personal experiences with bar girls stands since you have failed to provide any evidence that might show that you have a balanced view.

BTW, if you want to make a intelligent case for your view, you might start by learning grammer and composition.

grammar