More Syrian refugees reach Turkey; 2,392 overall

[News_Editor]

More Syrian refugees reach Turkey; 2,392 overall

2011-06-10 05:59:07 GMT+7 (ICT)

ANKARA, TURKEY (BNO NEWS) -- Turkish authorities on Thursday announced that more Syrian refugees reached Turkey in order to escape from the escalating violence in the Middle Eastern country, the state-run Anatolia news agency reported.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahemt Davutoglu said that according to figures from Turkey's border officials, 295 people entered Turkey through Altinozu town in the southern province of Hatay.

The total number of Syrian asylum seekers reached 2,392; most of them fleeing from the northwestern town of Jisr Al-Shughour. Most of them are being sheltered at a refugee camp in the border town of Yayladagi in Hatay province which was set up in late April.

On Wednesday, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan assured shelter for asylum seekers and vowed to keep the border crossing with Syria open. In addition, the government expressed their concern over the situation in the neighboring country.

"What's going on in Syria is saddening. Our concern has risen. I hope the Syrian government changes its stance against civilians and carries out reforms to pave the way for a change and transformation in Syria," said Erdogan, a close ally of Syrian President al-Assad.

The town of Jisr al-Shughour has been the stage of violent crackdown on protesters. Amnesty International said that at least 120 people were killed since Friday in what was labeled as "one of the bloodiest weekends in months of pro-reform demonstrations."

In mid-March, pro-democracy demonstrations began in Syria and have continued across the country, which has been ruled by the Baath Party since 1963. Protesters are demanding the ouster of President Bashar al-Assad, who took over his father in 2000.

According to Amnesty International 986 people has been killed by security forces during the last 11 weeks. In addition, thousands more have been arrested. The number, however, does not include security personnel, many of whom have been killed in attacks by armed groups, according to the Syrian government.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2011-06-10

[Steely Dan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13723810

The Syrian army has begun operations to "restore security" to the town of Jisr al-Shughour and the surrounding area, state TV says.

Earlier in the week, the Syrian government said 120 security personnel were killed in the north-western town.

The announcement, and the positioning of troops in the area, has prompted a flow of refugees to nearby Turkey.

Of course Russia, that world champion of human rights ( ) opposes any meaningful sanctions against Syria whilst the body count transitions from the hundreds to the thousands.

[Steely Dan]

Good news! No thanks to Russia and China's petty politicing but at least Turkey seem prepared to intervene in reigning Syria in.

http://www.debka.com/article/21015/

A new and dramatic turn in the Syrian crisis;: Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan Friday night, June 10, ordered his army to move into northern Syria where battles were blazing in Idlib, Maarat al-Numaan and Jisr al-Shuhour. debkafile's exclusive sources report that the prime minister's office and high command in Ankara are still working out how to define the Turkish military mission in Syria. One proposal is to evoke UN Security Council's 1973 resolution which mandated the NATO operation in Libya to protect civilian lives against Col. Qaddafi.

No need to bother about defining the mission here except to kick their murderous <deleted>. P.S When the smoke clears I suspect Turkey is trying to prevent the formation of a kurdish state in North Syria which may impact on them at a later date.

[kuffki]

Have you noticed Dan, that the usual "lovers" of the middle eastern topics have been rather silent about the issue?!

No comments, no condemnation, not even a half tried defense-just plain silence, yet 3000 and growing number of people have been misplaced and their homes gone, not to mention over 1000 already killed.

Mean time, should there be 1 kill or 1 misplaced person in the neighboring country, even words like "apartheid" are thrown around like a beach ball, not to mention words like terrorists, oppression, etc etc etc

[kuffki]

Turkey says 4,000 flee Syria, thousands more at border

http://www.jpost.com/VideoArticles/Video/Article.aspx?id=224535

[JUDAS]

Have you noticed Dan, that the usual "lovers" of the middle eastern topics have been rather silent about the issue?!

No comments, no condemnation, not even a half tried defense-just plain silence, yet 3000 and growing number of people have been misplaced and their homes gone, not to mention over 1000 already killed.

Mean time, should there be 1 kill or 1 misplaced person in the neighboring country, even words like "apartheid" are thrown around like a beach ball, not to mention words like terrorists, oppression, etc etc etc

Which neighbouring country are you referring to, I believe there are 4 to choose from?

[kuffki]

Have you noticed Dan, that the usual "lovers" of the middle eastern topics have been rather silent about the issue?!

No comments, no condemnation, not even a half tried defense-just plain silence, yet 3000 and growing number of people have been misplaced and their homes gone, not to mention over 1000 already killed.

Mean time, should there be 1 kill or 1 misplaced person in the neighboring country, even words like "apartheid" are thrown around like a beach ball, not to mention words like terrorists, oppression, etc etc etc

Which neighbouring country are you referring to, I believe there are 4 to choose from?

Well which neighboring country always gets attacked for flashing the toilet wrong way? or gets labelled the bigest world rule breaker for having a car run the red light?

[geriatrickid]

Maybe the "Freedom Flotillas" being organized this summer can be diverted to assist these people in need? Will the Turks be sending their nationals to render assistance to the brutalized Syrians? It's rather revealing that Turkey has forbidden any journalists from talking to the refugees or from entering the detention centers. And yes the Syrians are being detained. They are kept behind fences with armed guards and not allowed to circulate. Quite different from the image Turkey usually presents.

[kuffki]

Maybe the "Freedom Flotillas" being organized this summer can be diverted to assist these people in need? Will the Turks be sending their nationals to render assistance to the brutalized Syrians? It's rather revealing that Turkey has forbidden any journalists from talking to the refugees or from entering the detention centers. And yes the Syrians are being detained. They are kept behind fences with armed guards and not allowed to circulate. Quite different from the image Turkey usually presents.

Must be run by the "wrong" owned media

[Scott]

It's not uncommon for countries to restrict the movements of people fleeing problems in their home country. First, the host country has to determine who the displaced people are and why they have fled. Among these people there can be some undesirable characters whose motives may have nothing to do with the unrest in the country. Second, they have not passed through immigration with a passport and finally, any adverse attention could further endanger them as well as being seen as a provocation by Syria.

Some years back, Syria and Turkey had a stretch of land that was disputed by both countries, not unlike Thailand and Cambodia. It might not be a good time to have that dispute heat up.

Turkey is to be commended for allowing them to enter and providing aid. During the Saddam era in Iraq, Ankara (or the Turkish military, which is very powerful in politics, not unlike Thailand), they did not allow the Kurds to escape and this caused a great deal of international condemnation.

Is Turkey allowing the UN to have access to the displaced people?

[Scott]

One post deleted. Stay on topic. This thread is NOT about Israel.

If need be, re-read the OP before posting.

Thanks.

[geriatrickid]

It's not uncommon for countries to restrict the movements of people fleeing problems in their home country. First, the host country has to determine who the displaced people are and why they have fled. Among these people there can be some undesirable characters whose motives may have nothing to do with the unrest in the country. Second, they have not passed through immigration with a passport and finally, any adverse attention could further endanger them as well as being seen as a provocation by Syria.

Some years back, Syria and Turkey had a stretch of land that was disputed by both countries, not unlike Thailand and Cambodia. It might not be a good time to have that dispute heat up.

Turkey is to be commended for allowing them to enter and providing aid. During the Saddam era in Iraq, Ankara (or the Turkish military, which is very powerful in politics, not unlike Thailand), they did not allow the Kurds to escape and this caused a great deal of international condemnation.

Is Turkey allowing the UN to have access to the displaced people?

I appreciate the honourable intent of your statement, but Turkey is not playing by the rules. These people are considered to be refugees, yet Turkey refuses to accord them that treatment. It is strictly for selfish reasons. I draw your attention to public statements by Turkish leaders;The number of Syrians fleeing bloodshed and crossing into Turkey had exceeded 3,000 by Friday night. Turkish officials said they are seen as "guests" by Ankara and not identified as "refugees" or "asylum-seekers" so as not to incur future obligations. "Turkey identifies Syrians [who are sheltered in Hatay province] as guests. We are providing shelter out of humanitarian considerations. We can't perceive them as refugees or asylum-seekers. We hope they will be able to return to their homes," a Turkish official told reporters Friday. Source: Friday, June 10, 2011, SEVİL KÜÇÜKKOŞUM, ANKARA - Hürriyet Daily News

Turkey is being hypocritical. It expects the west to accomodate its emigrants, yet it doesn't even follow the current procedures on refugees. I do understand the Turkish position as it doesn't want more Syrians taking refuge. It's expensive. However, if Australia did this to its economic migrants, or Canada with Tamil terrorists posing as refugees, we'd be treated to all sorts of people bleating on about the cruelty of the westerners.

Yes, Turkey has a problem with its subjugation of the Kurds. One of the reasons for Turkey having cosied up to the Syrians and the Iranians was so that it could crack down on the Kurds. I don't think the Turks gave a hoot about the use of poisonous gas by the Iraqis on the Kurds, because they view the Kurds as an enemy group. Turkey's motives with the Kurds were completely different than with the Syrians. To a certain extent, Turkey had been propping up the Syrian regime over the years and support for Assad grew under the Erdogan government. The murder of Syrian civilians undermines Turkey's foreign affairs policy. After all, it was based upon closer relationships with its arab neighbors and a curtailment with those of the west.

Edited June 12, 2011 by geriatrickid

[Scott]

I am not going to argue about how this or other groups of people should be treated. Under international rules you are correct. However, the realities on the ground are often different and it remains to be seen whether or not they ultimately abide by international guidelines on the treatment of these people.

I spent considerable time in Turkey working with refugees. The country accommodated large numbers of asylum seekers from the former Yugoslavia. They were not interred in camps, they were registered and allowed freedom of movement.

There were Iraqi Kurds in Turkey and they were held in encampments, primarily near Diyabakir, near Iraq. There were also Turkish Kurds held at a refugee camp near Dohuk, northern Iraq. The Turks occasionally bombed that camp because it was seen as a recruiting ground for the PKK.

Turkey is far from what I would call a compassionate country, however, given their spotty track record with some groups of people, I am glad that they have allowed Syrians in danger to cross the border.

As long as the situation in Syria remains fluid, these people would not usually be considered ready for screening as refugees. Should Assad's crackdown succeed, then these people may face persecution. Right now, the majority are likely fleeing fighting in Syria. If Assad is deposed, then it may be possible for them to return safely.

My question about the UN being present was to precisely address the issue of compliance with rules. If Turkey does not permit a UN presence then, indeed they are not playing by the rules.

[Steely Dan]

There are many factors at work here, including the Turkish general election. The paralysis and inaction by Nato is there for all to see though in the light of similar events in Libya.

http://www.debka.com/article/21019/

[geriatrickid]

Well, Scott, your (constructive) criticism is fair enough and there is no doubt that Turkey is extending assistance to the displaced Syrians. I also note that PM Erdogan has leveled some criticism at the Assad regime. The motive might be due to the political embarrassment the Syrian crisis created (As per Dan's comments.)

Unfortunately, to Syrian situation was to a certain extent made possible by the support of Turkey. Syria had used Turkey to counter the isolation from the west. and Turkey was delighted to take advantage of the economic and political opportunities, even if it meant helping to support a regime that oppressed Syrians. It was PM Erdogan that made the grandiose statement that Turkey would strive to reassume a leadership role in the region as Turkey distanced itself from the west and Israel.

On the surface, it was seemed a reasonable strategy. However, now that there are problems in Syria with Syrians seeking refuge it exposes the flawed Turkish position. Turkey didn't forsee what would eventually happen, much as the west was blind to the situation in Tunisia and Egypt. Turkey did what it felt was in its best interests. Other countries do the same when they support despotic regimes, The difference though is that Turkey was one of the countries very quick to point an accusatory finger at some of the western countries for similar behaviour. As they say down at the pub, it's not so easy now that the shoe is on the other foot is it? The Syrian "guests" have to be shut off from public view and discouraged from crossing into Turkey because it is an absolute embarrassment for the Erdogan government. That is the difference between this crisis and other refugee crises. The end result is that Turkey is reluctant to have the situation publicized which means that the refugees will be shoved into a bureaucratic no man's land for a bit.

[Scott]

Your knowledge of the political situation in Turkey is much more extensive than mine. Thanks for the information.

[johna]

If Turkey intervenes in Syria for whatever reasons, Iran may also step in, and that will trigger intervention by other middle east countries,

There is no credible opposition to the government in Syria. (no Karzai on Chalabi on the horizon)

I suspect the West is secretly happy with Russia, and China's sanction's veto

[kuffki]

Why would the west be secretly happy?

And

When did turkey plan to intervene?

And

Any decent reason why Iran has not done it yet?

And what other neighboring countries would help Syrian regime?

If Turkey intervenes in Syria for whatever reasons, Iran may also step in, and that will trigger intervention by other middle east countries,

There is no credible opposition to the government in Syria. (no Karzai on Chalabi on the horizon)

I suspect the West is secretly happy with Russia, and China's sanction's veto

[Pakboong]

It's not uncommon for countries to restrict the movements of people fleeing problems in their home country. First, the host country has to determine who the displaced people are and why they have fled. Among these people there can be some undesirable characters whose motives may have nothing to do with the unrest in the country. Second, they have not passed through immigration with a passport and finally, any adverse attention could further endanger them as well as being seen as a provocation by Syria.

Some years back, Syria and Turkey had a stretch of land that was disputed by both countries, not unlike Thailand and Cambodia. It might not be a good time to have that dispute heat up.

Turkey is to be commended for allowing them to enter and providing aid. During the Saddam era in Iraq, Ankara (or the Turkish military, which is very powerful in politics, not unlike Thailand), they did not allow the Kurds to escape and this caused a great deal of international condemnation.

Is Turkey allowing the UN to have access to the displaced people?

I appreciate the honourable intent of your statement, but Turkey is not playing by the rules. These people are considered to be refugees, yet Turkey refuses to accord them that treatment. It is strictly for selfish reasons. I draw your attention to public statements by Turkish leaders;The number of Syrians fleeing bloodshed and crossing into Turkey had exceeded 3,000 by Friday night. Turkish officials said they are seen as "guests" by Ankara and not identified as "refugees" or "asylum-seekers" so as not to incur future obligations. "Turkey identifies Syrians [who are sheltered in Hatay province] as guests. We are providing shelter out of humanitarian considerations. We can't perceive them as refugees or asylum-seekers. We hope they will be able to return to their homes," a Turkish official told reporters Friday. Source: Friday, June 10, 2011, SEVİL KÜÇÜKKOŞUM, ANKARA - Hürriyet Daily News

Turkey is being hypocritical. It expects the west to accomodate its emigrants, yet it doesn't even follow the current procedures on refugees. I do understand the Turkish position as it doesn't want more Syrians taking refuge. It's expensive. However, if Australia did this to its economic migrants, or Canada with Tamil terrorists posing as refugees, we'd be treated to all sorts of people bleating on about the cruelty of the westerners.

Yes, Turkey has a problem with its subjugation of the Kurds. One of the reasons for Turkey having cosied up to the Syrians and the Iranians was so that it could crack down on the Kurds. I don't think the Turks gave a hoot about the use of poisonous gas by the Iraqis on the Kurds, because they view the Kurds as an enemy group. Turkey's motives with the Kurds were completely different than with the Syrians. To a certain extent, Turkey had been propping up the Syrian regime over the years and support for Assad grew under the Erdogan government. The murder of Syrian civilians undermines Turkey's foreign affairs policy. After all, it was based upon closer relationships with its arab neighbors and a curtailment with those of the west.

Excellent post GK.

[geriatrickid]

Why would the west be secretly happy?

And

When did turkey plan to intervene?

And

Any decent reason why Iran has not done it yet?

And what other neighboring countries would help Syrian regime?

If Turkey intervenes in Syria for whatever reasons, Iran may also step in, and that will trigger intervention by other middle east countries,

There is no credible opposition to the government in Syria. (no Karzai on Chalabi on the horizon)

I suspect the West is secretly happy with Russia, and China's sanction's veto

Although I agree that Turkey will not intervene for now, I'm certain that there are elements of Turkish pride at work. Turkey invested alot into its revitalization of a relationship with Syria. IMO the Turkish public sentiment is more sympathetic to Syria than with other neighboring countries. Turkey would intervene if there was a large scale exodus of Syrians that presented a national security risk. Another wild card is if the Kurds will attempt to exploit the situation. As you may recall, the Turks were apoplectic when the Kurds were gaining power in their Iraqi territory and nearly invaded that part of Iraq as a result. it took the US turning cartwheels to prevent it. I think the Turkish intervention is occurring now, but is by way of tough political talk behind closed doors. Assad has no other nation he can flee to.

Look at how Saudi Arabia dealt with the Yemen crisis. It begged Saleh to resign, it used some tough tactics. Then when he was burnt in a missile attack he ended up in Yemen. I think the Saudis will be "forceful" in extending their hospitality. The same may happen with Assad. By adopting a friendly yet non commital public position on the refugees, Turkey is providing a way out to Assad without upsetting the Syrian protestors. And only Turkey has the regional credibility that would allow an intervention. If it bolsters Turkey's attempt to gain prestige in the region Turkey will do it, but I don't see Erdogan risking it with an election looming.

I think there is real concern in Turkey that this doesn't become a full blown civil war with an accompanying refugee crisis and regional instability. Look at Turkey's borders: Georgia - unstable; Iran - 'nuff said, Iraq - Kurds and feuding factions galore, Greece-hardly bosom buddies and public insurrection nrewing that could give rise to right wing coalition which has traditionally been hostile to Turkey, Armenia - gulp and Bulgaria- historic animosity. Sure, I'm being tough on Turkey, but I also have to recognize that they are surrounded by less than ideal neighbors and must be sh*tting bricks right about now worrying about refugees and regional stability.

Edited June 13, 2011 by geriatrickid

[Scott]

I thought I heard that the election is over. CNN was reporting something, but I wasn't paying close attention.

At any rate, the military is very strong in Turkey and without their consent, I very much doubt that the Syrians would get across the border.

My concern for the displaced Syrians at this point in time is that some of the areas where they are detained are dangerously close to the Syrian border. I hope that no fighting spills over.

[koheesti]

If Turkey intervenes in Syria for whatever reasons, Iran may also step in, and that will trigger intervention by other middle east countries,

If Turkey ends up being attacked, then as a NATO member that will be considered an attack on all members.

[Scott]

I very much doubt that Syria would attack Turkey. Turkey has a very powerful military--and yes, they are a member of NATO. One of the reasons the displaced Syrians should not be kept so close to the border is that the possibility exists of the fighting spilling over the border. It's also too easy for ill-intentioned people to seek cover when it is easy and convenient to get back across the border.

This scenario doesn't appear to be the case at this point in time, but better to keep everyone a safe distance from the trouble, especially if they are vulnerable and non-combatants.

[Steely Dan]

The latest update estimates as many as 10,000 refugees heading for Turkish and Lebanon borders. The Syrians have apparently sealed their border with Turkey in order to better facilitate murdering their own people and making it harder for Turkey to intervene.

[maidu]

The major news venues should be renamed something like, "Troubles in the Middle East and Other News."

Every day, the leading stories are of multiple killings which happen there.. You see footage, and it's a surprise to see one tree. Most of the footage from the Middle East shows no foliage at all. The place has been a dust bowl since before Babylon. The only place that competes with the Middle east for multitudes of carnage and rapes is the central African region, but at least they still have trees and greenery there - and Africa doesn't have the scourge of suicide bombers which are endemic to the Middle East.

For at least 3,000 years, the ME has had too many people for its carrying capacity - and it's getting worse week by week. Palestinian women average 9 kids each. The best thing the world community can do for the Middle East is ship in truckloads of birth control. The next best thing is to try and show Middle Easterners how to tolerate one another, and try to let go of grudges sparked by events that happened centuries ago. Talk about holding grudges, jeeeeeez Louise. .If someone could show them the troubles that stem from religious thinking, then half their troubles would flit away - but that's impossible. It would be easier to teach a lizard to sing opera while ice skating.

[Steely Dan]

The major news venues should be renamed something like, "Troubles in the Middle East and Other News."

Every day, the leading stories are of multiple killings which happen there.. You see footage, and it's a surprise to see one tree. Most of the footage from the Middle East shows no foliage at all. The place has been a dust bowl since before Babylon. The only place that competes with the Middle east for multitudes of carnage and rapes is the central African region, but at least they still have trees and greenery there - and Africa doesn't have the scourge of suicide bombers which are endemic to the Middle East.

For at least 3,000 years, the ME has had too many people for its carrying capacity - and it's getting worse week by week. Palestinian women average 9 kids each. The best thing the world community can do for the Middle East is ship in truckloads of birth control. The next best thing is to try and show Middle Easterners how to tolerate one another, and try to let go of grudges sparked by events that happened centuries ago. Talk about holding grudges, jeeeeeez Louise. .If someone could show them the troubles that stem from religious thinking, then half their troubles would flit away - but that's impossible. It would be easier to teach a lizard to sing opera while ice skating.

What a lovely thought, trees being the only distinction between sub-Saharan rape and murder and that found in the middle east, where there's not so much as a baobab tree to hang a body from. Actually Israel is the odd one out here being one of the few Countries on earth who plant more trees than they chop down. You are right too about adherence to cave dweller theocracy has a lot to answer for. The trouble is how to break out of the cycle. Tyranical despots at least keep their populace in check whereas the theocratic model is one of racism and supremacism which causes infinitely more trouble for the rest of the world either through jihaddist terrorism or through the slow jihad of a sky high birth rate.