'Invisible Hand' Throttles Our Democracy; Thai Opinion

[rammis35]

It is poetic (& very timely) justice that the forces that installed Abhisit & the Democrats to power are playing the most crucial role in their spectacular downfall. It's only the ThaksinVengeance.com red bashers that are refusing to admit the truth at this stage. Never elected, never respected.

Wrong again. The invisible hand is the Global movement that people deny exist in world politics. There is no doubt that Thaksin, Amsterdam et al are connected to events in the Arab Spring, and Thailand is just another country standing in the way of world domination for some of the world's wealthier people. There was an interesting programme on TV the other night about how the banks manipulated and controlled economies but fell at the hands of politicians as their scams were revealed (sorry a short hand way of describing these events). One academic had been commissioned to write a favourable report on Iceland two months before its collapse, a month later his CV revealed that he had changed the title of the report to mean the opposite. Those who are writing reports for Freedom House about Thailand are also being paid large amounts to distort the facts. I suggest everyone should read the LandDestroyer reports before commenting here.

You forgot to mention that the world is in fact being controlled by a race of giant lizards.

I thought it was white mice.

No it is aliens and they are being controlled by Elvis. Everyone knows that, I seen it on a TV show so it has to be true....

[tombkk]

You forgot to mention that the world is in fact being controlled by a race of giant lizards.

I thought it was white mice.

No it is aliens and they are being controlled by Elvis. Everyone knows that, I seen it on a TV show so it has to be true....

The TV show might not have gone to the bottom of it, i.e. the Flying Spaghetti Monster: http://www.venganza.org/about/

[animatic]

Mr. Pravit has got this completely wrong.

When someone has to go to the bathroom to relieve their bowels, it is not a pretty thing. It is something that needs to be done for sure, but it is not something that any of us enjoy seeing, and it isn't something we would particularly brag about to our friends. Worse, if someone has to put toilets out in the open, you get a whole bunch of newspaper editorial writers complaining about the sight and smell. Sadly, fecal matter is an inescapable part of life, and the fact that it is unpleasant does not mean you can remove it.

The invisible hand is a very necessary part of the Thai political scene right now. Without it, the tyranny Thaksin stands for and the evil he espouses will be allowed to thrive. Nobody like the reality of the invisible hand, but it would be a death sentence for the country to do away with it at this stage. Yes, just like your last trip to the john, the invisible hand stinks. It is also a life giving process that clears the body of toxins and allows it to thrive. The best way to get rid of the invisible hand is to let it do its job and clear this country of the poison Thaksin has deposited.

Once that is done, the invisible hand will disappear and Thailand might once again be free to try and reestablish the fledgling democracy Thaksin destroyed.

Good analogy.

[p_brownstone]

The "invisible hand" pre-dates Thaksin by several decades, Thaksin is just the most recent incarnation of forces opposed to the "invisible hand".

Both however are totally self-serving and amoral - and both have substantial assets safely stored outside Thailand in anticipation of the coming firestorm.

"When elephants fight, only the grass is damaged."

Patrick

[Ulysses G.]

Substitute "Thaksin" for "invisible hand" and the article is quite credible.

Either Thaksin or the army - anybody's guess which one.

[moe666]

It cannot be the Hand that show was cancelled years ago.(Munsters if you donot know). It has to be the Pee.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Substitute "Thaksin" for "invisible hand" and the article is quite credible.

Either Thaksin or the army - anybody's guess which one.

I think you're far less naive than that.

Anyway, GREAT article. Kept a link for reference. And always nice to see what happens when an article gets posted that doesn't just tout the anti-Thaksin line; all kinds of juvenile crap about aliens and lizards gets posted to derail the topic. Very mature.

Edited June 18, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[roamer]

Substitute "Thaksin" for "invisible hand" and the article is quite credible.

Either Thaksin or the army - anybody's guess which one.

I think you're far less naive than that.

Anyway, GREAT article. Kept a link for reference. And always nice to see what happens when an article gets posted that doesn't just tout the anti-Thaksin line; all kinds of juvenile crap about aliens and lizards gets posted to derail the topic. Very mature.

I guess its easy to miss the point that a respected journalist has no option other than to resign his post and quit the country if he wants to write openly.Its easier to report openly from Tripoli.

[hanuman1]

Still can't find this new article on his blog. Is it available anywhere yet?

Maybe Mr Marshall is considering if he wants to come back to Thailand anytime soon before publishing...

[NanLaew]

^ yeah, I hear his Thai GF is upset that he is placing his journalistic career ahead of her beauty salon.

[NanLaew]

I guess its easy to miss the point that a respected journalist has no option other than to resign his post and quit the country if he wants to write openly. Its easier to report openly from Tripoli.

Au contraire, Paul Handley is quite happy to be on the outside looking in.

Oh... who's this Marshall punter then?

[NanLaew]

As far as this writer is aware, Reuters' Bangkok Bureau is bracing for a visit from the Thai authorities as Marshall, who is not in Thailand, begins uploading his 40,000 to 50,000 words story today.

Does not appear Marshall meet his deadline, unless he waiting for prime time in the US and Europe to upload this story.

TH

Yep, he's still not finished. Should be before the end of the week though.

I hope nobody is silly enough to hold their breath on this one.

[roamer]

Mr. Pravit has got this completely wrong.

When someone has to go to the bathroom to relieve their bowels, it is not a pretty thing. It is something that needs to be done for sure, but it is not something that any of us enjoy seeing, and it isn't something we would particularly brag about to our friends. Worse, if someone has to put toilets out in the open, you get a whole bunch of newspaper editorial writers complaining about the sight and smell. Sadly, fecal matter is an inescapable part of life, and the fact that it is unpleasant does not mean you can remove it.

The invisible hand is a very necessary part of the Thai political scene right now. Without it, the tyranny Thaksin stands for and the evil he espouses will be allowed to thrive. Nobody like the reality of the invisible hand, but it would be a death sentence for the country to do away with it at this stage. Yes, just like your last trip to the john, the invisible hand stinks. It is also a life giving process that clears the body of toxins and allows it to thrive. The best way to get rid of the invisible hand is to let it do its job and clear this country of the poison Thaksin has deposited.

Once that is done, the invisible hand will disappear and Thailand might once again be free to try and reestablish the fledgling democracy Thaksin destroyed.

Got it. So the best way to establish democracy is to use an "invisible hand" to cleanse said democracy so it is more to your liking.

Personally I always thought democracy was born of struggle and not a designer birth.

[SteeleJoe]

The invisible hand is a very necessary part of the Thai political scene right now.

And has been for several decades. The invisible hand has been active for a long time, this isn't a recent development. If you think it is then do some background reading.

Yes.

Both of above.

[SteeleJoe]

There's no empirical/historical evidence to suggest the hand will 'disappear'. Your hypothesis seems to be based merely on blind trust. ...When in fact, the fleeing students gave the insurgency a new impetus. Blowing the communist threat out of all proportion was a bad idea in many ways since it became a self-fulfilling prophecy (the threat really did eventually become significant but only after state crackdowns on moderate leftists and even propagandizing for communism at times - putting out false publications promoting Marxism to justify more US funding and in order to make citizens fearful and supportive of the state).

Quite factual. Not as sure about this:

You can see this in a similar way. Of course, we'll never know for sure. But I'd bet that Thaksin would be gone from the scene now in a 'natural' way if it weren't for the 2006 coup and the continuing interventions...

[roamer]

I guess its easy to miss the point that a respected journalist has no option other than to resign his post and quit the country if he wants to write openly. Its easier to report openly from Tripoli.

Au contraire, Paul Handley is quite happy to be on the outside looking in.

Oh... who's this Marshall punter then?

Not sure Paul Handley would describe himself as "happy" to be outside looking in, it is however the reality that he is unlikely to be welcome in Thailand any time soon.

Andrew Marshall is a respected and experienced journalist, headed up Reuters in Baghdad. That particular organisation is no longer regarded as the most impartial of media sources since its takeover by Thomson Corporation and there are more than a few rumblings of internal dissent. If the leaked cables from the US Embassy in Bangkok are indeed what they are suspected to be then there is no way that Reuters would have published.

Andrew Marshall

Might just turn out to be a damp squid in the sense that there are a lot of Reuters staff unhappy with its present ownership and that he would have jumped ship anyway.

[Roadman]

Mr. Pravit has got this completely wrong.

When someone has to go to the bathroom to relieve their bowels, it is not a pretty thing. It is something that needs to be done for sure, but it is not something that any of us enjoy seeing, and it isn't something we would particularly brag about to our friends. Worse, if someone has to put toilets out in the open, you get a whole bunch of newspaper editorial writers complaining about the sight and smell. Sadly, fecal matter is an inescapable part of life, and the fact that it is unpleasant does not mean you can remove it.

The invisible hand is a very necessary part of the Thai political scene right now. Without it, the tyranny Thaksin stands for and the evil he espouses will be allowed to thrive. Nobody like the reality of the invisible hand, but it would be a death sentence for the country to do away with it at this stage. Yes, just like your last trip to the john, the invisible hand stinks. It is also a life giving process that clears the body of toxins and allows it to thrive. The best way to get rid of the invisible hand is to let it do its job and clear this country of the poison Thaksin has deposited.

Once that is done, the invisible hand will disappear and Thailand might once again be free to try and reestablish the fledgling democracy Thaksin destroyed.

When I read these threads on Thai politics and attempts at installing democracy into this country and come to your posts, I give up reading the rest of the way as there is little more to be gained as you understand and describe the situation as it is. Your descriptive above is again spot on and reference to a toilet visit fits Thailand to the T, as that is where it sits, until such time as Isaan's latest piece of garbage that poses as a political party actually steps up as a political party with democratic intent for the people first and foremost.

It is not difficult to understand who pulls the power in this country and it is not the Army. Those who consider it is the Army on the back of cash flow for the generals latest toys and life long luxury and political control are wide of the mark. The Army (and they are far from perfect) is there as the one major force in this country that has some sort of decency and honour to the greater good of keeping the political path in the democratic direction. Sadly the same cannot be said for other major forces being the police, political parties and most other elected or power holding individuals. The whole of Thailand just like that that squat toilet with no flush stinks of corruption, bribery and greed. And there is no difference between an elected offical screwing the country coffers as they take their cut in the latest major project or the side walk stall operator screwing the individual over with over reading scales when buying weighted goods.

Sadly with Pheu Thai's latest carry on's leading into this election they are showing that they are no different to their past offerings. Unless there is major changes in their current policy and intent if they fortunate enough to have power after the election, then it is going to be bussiness as usual with the Army stepping in again in the near future.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Roadman

[roamer]

Mr. Pravit has got this completely wrong.

When someone has to go to the bathroom to relieve their bowels, it is not a pretty thing. It is something that needs to be done for sure, but it is not something that any of us enjoy seeing, and it isn't something we would particularly brag about to our friends. Worse, if someone has to put toilets out in the open, you get a whole bunch of newspaper editorial writers complaining about the sight and smell. Sadly, fecal matter is an inescapable part of life, and the fact that it is unpleasant does not mean you can remove it.

The invisible hand is a very necessary part of the Thai political scene right now. Without it, the tyranny Thaksin stands for and the evil he espouses will be allowed to thrive. Nobody like the reality of the invisible hand, but it would be a death sentence for the country to do away with it at this stage. Yes, just like your last trip to the john, the invisible hand stinks. It is also a life giving process that clears the body of toxins and allows it to thrive. The best way to get rid of the invisible hand is to let it do its job and clear this country of the poison Thaksin has deposited.

Once that is done, the invisible hand will disappear and Thailand might once again be free to try and reestablish the fledgling democracy Thaksin destroyed.

When I read these threads on Thai politics and attempts at installing democracy into this country and come to your posts, I give up reading the rest of the way as there is little more to be gained as you understand and describe the situation as it is. Your descriptive above is again spot on and reference to a toilet visit fits Thailand to the T, as that is where it sits, until such time as Isaan's latest piece of garbage that poses as a political party actually steps up as a political party with democratic intent for the people first and foremost.

It is not difficult to understand who pulls the power in this country and it is not the Army. Those who consider it is the Army on the back of cash flow for the generals latest toys and life long luxury and political control are wide of the mark. The Army (and they are far from perfect) is there as the one major force in this country that has some sort of decency and honour to the greater good of keeping the political path in the democratic direction. Sadly the same cannot be said for other major forces being the police, political parties and most other elected or power holding individuals. The whole of Thailand just like that that squat toilet with no flush stinks of corruption, bribery and greed. And there is no difference between an elected offical screwing the country coffers as they take their cut in the latest major project or the side walk stall operator screwing the individual over with over reading scales when buying weighted goods.

Sadly with Pheu Thai's latest carry on's leading into this election they are showing that they are no different to their past offerings. Unless there is major changes in their current policy and intent if they fortunate enough to have power after the election, then it is going to be bussiness as usual with the Army stepping in again in the near future.

Well of course the Army will step in. They have done on every occasion when they disliked the hue of any particular government, why on earth should this time be any different ? How on earth you and others reconcile military coups with keeping " the political path in the democratic direction " demonstrates how fragile your grasp of the concept of democracy is.

[rogercw]

It is poetic (& very timely) justice that the forces that installed Abhisit & the Democrats to power are playing the most crucial role in their spectacular downfall. It's only the ThaksinVengeance.com red bashers that are refusing to admit the truth at this stage. Never elected, never respected.

What?

[sbk]

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[roamer]

Given the title of this topic and the posts that have been removed, one has to give a wry smile, the invisible hand is indeed at work even here. Understandable, I guess but nevertheless sad. Oh well the truth is out there.

[LivinLOS]

It is poetic (& very timely) justice that the forces that installed Abhisit & the Democrats to power are playing the most crucial role in their spectacular downfall. It's only the ThaksinVengeance.com red bashers that are refusing to admit the truth at this stage. Never elected, never respected.

Wrong again. The invisible hand is the Global movement that people deny exist in world politics. There is no doubt that Thaksin, Amsterdam et al are connected to events in the Arab Spring, and Thailand is just another country standing in the way of world domination for some of the world's wealthier people. There was an interesting programme on TV the other night about how the banks manipulated and controlled economies but fell at the hands of politicians as their scams were revealed (sorry a short hand way of describing these events). One academic had been commissioned to write a favourable report on Iceland two months before its collapse, a month later his CV revealed that he had changed the title of the report to mean the opposite. Those who are writing reports for Freedom House about Thailand are also being paid large amounts to distort the facts. I suggest everyone should read the LandDestroyer reports before commenting here.

You forgot to mention that the world is in fact being controlled by a race of giant lizards.

Well I for one would like to take this moment to welcome our new lizard overlords.

[Samuian]

Reading the article over on the other side, I feel it would of been much more astute of Pryuth reminded people of the real arson attacks conducted by the red shirts all over Bangkok and North Thailand, rather than cite suspected attacks on the usual target. While doing the latter may have a greater short term effect (or will it?) it will only serve to undermine whatever democratic process there is here in the long term.

As long as thee are several opposing powers wrestling for rule and suppress anything against their interest, there can't be any "democratic process"!

[roamer]

Reading the article over on the other side, I feel it would of been much more astute of Pryuth reminded people of the real arson attacks conducted by the red shirts all over Bangkok and North Thailand, rather than cite suspected attacks on the usual target. While doing the latter may have a greater short term effect (or will it?) it will only serve to undermine whatever democratic process there is here in the long term.

As long as thee are several opposing powers wrestling for rule and suppress anything against their interest, there can't be any "democratic process"!

Out of interest, how many other "nominal" democracies are there in the world ? By nominal I mean the right to vote, indeed the compulsory requirement to vote, but to do so in the worlds most heavily censored democracy. For how much longer can such a system operate ?

The Thai proverb "one can't cover up a dead elephant with a lotus leaf" has never seemed more appropriate.

[hyperdimension]

Andrew Marshall's 108 page first draft of his story is missing a lot of detail from the events of April and May 2010 and onwards. This is probably because the cables that he acquired and worked with only went up to early 2010. Plenty has happened between early 2010 up to now.

Edited July 1, 2011 by hyperdimension

[rubl]

Andrew Marshall's 108 page first draft of his story is missing a lot of detail from the events of April and May 2010 and onwards. This is probably because the cables that he acquired and worked with only went up to early 2010. Plenty has happened between early 2010 up to now.

Are we talking about the same book ?

2011-06-21 "Crazed, Unshaven Andrew Marshall Publishes Incomprehensible 10,000-Word Rant About Aliens, Jews, Nanobots, Prem"

http://notthenation.com/2011/06/crazed-unshaven-andrew-marshall-publishes-incomprehensible-10000-word-rant-about-aliens-jews-nanobots-prem-3/

[baboon]

Reading the article over on the other side, I feel it would of been much more astute of Pryuth reminded people of the real arson attacks conducted by the red shirts all over Bangkok and North Thailand, rather than cite suspected attacks on the usual target. While doing the latter may have a greater short term effect (or will it?) it will only serve to undermine whatever democratic process there is here in the long term.

As long as thee are several opposing powers wrestling for rule and suppress anything against their interest, there can't be any "democratic process"!

Indeed.

What power do you have?

How did you get it?

In whose interest do you excercise it?

How do we get rid of you if we don`t like you?

Kudos to the Mods for keeping this thread open.

[hyperdimension]

Andrew Marshall's 108 page first draft of his story is missing a lot of detail from the events of April and May 2010 and onwards. This is probably because the cables that he acquired and worked with only went up to early 2010. Plenty has happened between early 2010 up to now.

Are we talking about the same book ?

2011-06-21 "Crazed, Unshaven Andrew Marshall Publishes Incomprehensible 10,000-Word Rant About Aliens, Jews, Nanobots, Prem"

http://notthenation.com/2011/06/crazed-unshaven-andrew-marshall-publishes-incomprehensible-10000-word-rant-about-aliens-jews-nanobots-prem-3/

I was referring to the one on the Council on Foreign Relations web site, "Asia Unbound" section.

Based on the chart below, it is definitely a different document!

[roamer]

Andrew Marshall's 108 page first draft of his story is missing a lot of detail from the events of April and May 2010 and onwards. This is probably because the cables that he acquired and worked with only went up to early 2010. Plenty has happened between early 2010 up to now.

Are we talking about the same book ?

2011-06-21 "Crazed, Unshaven Andrew Marshall Publishes Incomprehensible 10,000-Word Rant About Aliens, Jews, Nanobots, Prem"

http://notthenation.com/2011/06/crazed-unshaven-andrew-marshall-publishes-incomprehensible-10000-word-rant-about-aliens-jews-nanobots-prem-3/

I was referring to the one on the Council on Foreign Relations web site, "Asia Unbound" section.

Based on the chart below, it is definitely a different document!

Actually he ended up with far more than he bargained for trying to put it all together and he says the mindmap is pretty much how he felt about it ! Even provided the link to the mindmap on Mandala as I recall. Also this is not dealt with in strict chronological order so you will find that Part 2 references the events you mentioned.

[hyperdimension]

you will find that Part 2 references the events you mentioned.

But the cables that he acquired only went up to early 2010, so whatever he has written regarding events from April 2010 up to now are based on cables prior to early 2010. It would have been good if he also had cables from early 2010 onwards.