Agent Orange / Dioxins In Thailand, Laos Or Cambodia?

[Thongkorn]

Look up Hells gate on you tube , a secret war was going on along side the vietnam war,

Uhmmm...why are you telling me? I'm the one who was pointing out -- in the very senetnce you qoute -- that Laos was part of the conflict. And trust me, I don't need Youtube to tell me that a war was fought in Laos, I've studied this history for far longer than Youtube (or the internet) has existed.

Maybe other readers of this post do not know,

My friends wife fought against the Americans in the Khmer Rouge,

[SteeleJoe]

Maybe other readers of this post do not know,

Oh, sorry. Since you quoted me, I thought the post was directed to me.

[SteeleJoe]

My friends wife fought against the Americans in the Khmer Rouge,

Seems a bit unlikely. Which "Americans"? Because the Khmer Rouge didn't fight the Americans much at all, relatively speaking. They fought fellow Cambodians and they fought Vietnamese (and perhaps the occasional Nung mercenary et al and a US Special Forces advisor or MIKE here and there...).

In any case, I'd personally be ashamed to have been a part of the KR no matter how pure my revolutionary motives might have been.

(I'm sorry,I have to ask since you followed a reference to the war in Laos with a mention of a woman who was in the KR: you do know that the Khmer Rouge was in Cambodia, right? Hence the the name Red Khmer?)

[kerryk]

My friends wife fought against the Americans in the Khmer Rouge,

Seems a bit unlikely. Which "Americans"? Because the Khmer Rouge didn't fight the Americans much at all, relatively speaking. They fought fellow Cambodians and they fought Vietnamese (and perhaps the occasional Nung mercenary et al and a US Special Forces advisor or MIKE here and there...).

In any case, I'd personally be ashamed to have been a part of the KR no matter how pure my revolutionary motives might have been.

(I'm sorry,I have to ask since you followed a reference to the war in Laos with a mention of a woman who was in the KR: you do know that the Khmer Rouge was in Cambodia, right? Hence the the name Red Khmer?)

The Americans invaded Cambodia in 1970. They were after the North Vietnamese but I guess they could have run into some Cambodians. I seem to remember everyone bringing back temple rubbings and piles of North Vietnamese cash as they knocked over a NVA cash stronghold as well as weapons depots. 50,000 Americans invaded and 300 were KIA. Anyone who fought there would probably be in their 60's now.

[SteeleJoe]

The Americans invaded Cambodia in 1970. They were after the North Vietnamese but I guess they could have run into some Cambodians. I seem to remember everyone bringing back temple rubbings and piles of North Vietnamese cash as they knocked over a NVA cash stronghold as well as weapons depots. 50,000 Americans invaded and 300 were KIA. Anyone who fought there would probably be in their 60's now.

I'm well aware of that invasion. Anyone with anything but an extremely limited knowledge of the era/conflict(s) would be. (In fact I mentioned in a post a couple days ago). Which is one reason why i didn't say the KR never fought Americans. But,as your Wiki search told you , that opertion was against Vietnamese and I'm not aware of any KR fighters involved

[Mrjlh]

In regards to A.O. usage in Thailand, there are several websites dedicated to the issue, so I'll leave that research up to you. As was previously posted, US has finally acknowledged the use around strategic base perimeters in Thailand. To make claims with the US VA one has to meet very strict requirements and most are denied at present, but that is slowly changing.

As far as the Thai government making admissions you are getting into very sensitive political issue which will probably never be told and is best to steer clear. You're probably barking up a tree with nothing there. Even today access to Thai military bases are closed to the public except under certain events.

Yes, there are people quietly investigating this issue today. But with the secrecy and denials it is doubtful any hard evidence will be found 40 years later. However there is always hope.

Whether or not you agree or disagree with the Vietnam war is a mute point because it over. However many have no idea of the importance of the Thai government's contribution in fighting hard along side with the US, UK, Australia, and a few other countries attempting to stop the expansion of Communism at the time. I have great respect for them. What the general public also does not know or are not taught is the Thais had an internal war against the Thai Communist Peoples Army back in the late 60's which carried over until the 80's. And actually started back in the 50's but that's another thing. That was one reason to use A.O, or its commercial equivalent, for clearing agitation around base perimeters to prevent attacks from internally. Did we pollute? Sure the hell did. Can we prove it? Who knows?

Someone made a comment about dropped bombs. All target runs at that time had primary and secondary targets. No mystery here basic combat rule. If Laos was the prime, there was always a secondary in Laos. Same with Vietnam. Many tactical aircraft not able to hit any targets (for which there were few) came back with their full load. Not the best choice but they did contrary to popular myth. Raised a lot of concerns, trust me. We had several drop zones mainly for hung or malfunctioning ordnance where aircraft could unload in Thailand. For some very obvious reasons that information is still unpublished. Two of which wouldn't matter anyway because today they are under tons of water after being cleared. They became reservoirs.

So in a nut shell all your questions are answered. How do I know? Along with several of my fellow board members, I too was here at the time. I was a Tactical Controller. I still remember quite well what every one was doing at the time, where they went and how they got there. I saw these guys go out and come back. And lament about the ones that didn't come back.

OP, good luck in your research. If you find anything PM me and I'll pass it along to researchers.

[SteeleJoe]

It's been pointed out to me that I was gratuitously unpleasant in my last post (no doubt not the first or last time) -- and maybe some others for that matter, so ...mea culpa.

Sorry bout that.

[candoman89]

Back to the original post/question...........around 2000 we were contracted to design a secure landfill and the Hua Hin Airport to dispose of agent orange contaminated soils/drums that were uncovered during the expansion there.

[Mrjlh]

Back to the original post/question...........around 2000 we were contracted to design a secure landfill and the Hua Hin Airport to dispose of agent orange contaminated soils/drums that were uncovered during the expansion there.

I find that fact both interesting and disturbing at the same time. Even though we know they had a test site there in the 60's, it amazing to hear they waited as long as they did to provide cleanup. Would you happen to have any pictures or documentation to share? Either privately or publicly.

[WeeGB]

Are you only interested in Agent Orange use in the three countries in the topic title ? Because according to the BBC, South Korea are currently investigating US dumping of Agent Orange at various sites there. Ref: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13598247 However, as it is a joint US / Korean investigation, no doubt it will be covered up, or deemed "classified" to protect the guilty. Amazingly, the US can dump between 11 and 12 million gallons of Agent Orange on Vietnam, causing all kinds of cancer, fatal illnesses and birth deformities, and no one has ever been accused of committing war crimes, much less accepted any responsibilty for the devastating consequences of these actions on the Vietnameses people.

[Nignoy]

There is so much secrecy surrounding this issue, that I doubt we will ever get to the truth. I can find no evidence that says A.O. was used in Thailand. But that could be the secrecy involved. I do not understand why A.O. was found at Hua Hin. I don't think that H.H. was used , by the Americans , to fly raids over Vietnam.Too far away. My understanding is that the main air base was Udon Thani. Definitely ,most heavy bombing raids emanated from there,as the runway was built specifically for that purpose. Was A.O. stored or flown from there? I don't know. Would dearly love to.But I have my doubts. The other air base of interest was at Ubon Ratchathani. I believe it was a smaller base ,and the planes required to dump A.O. would not have required such runway lengths as U.T..and so, may have used U.R.,as their A.O. base. But I have no proof. The other really nasty thing about U.T, was that any bombs still in the bomb bay, meant the plane could not land, so they very kindly dumped them on Laos. Until the bomb bay was empty. Then they were allowed to land.

I can't think of any reason not to drop bombs over a target as the plane was lighter without the bombs and flew faster to get out of a combat area. Go in drop the bombs and go home to Thai gf at base and have a beer.

Laos was not a target .Vietnam was.So you think that killing ,maiming , wounding countless thousands of Laotians is or was acceptable behaviour?

Your statement is completely in error.

Laos was the key to the Vietnam war and was certainly a target. The majority of the Ho Chi Minh trail, the route that supplies were moved from North to South Vietnam was in Laos. The Americans bombed Laos daily for years to prevent supplies from reaching the North Vietnamese Army fighting in South Vietnam.

Thailand was also very concerned with Laos and US troops were first deployed to Thailand in 1962 as a result of the Laotian civil war. Check your history of the SEATO treaty. Britain even deployed combat units to Thailand during that period.

For some interesting reading check out Thai troops and the Plain of Jars in Laos.

The only british troops stationed in Thailand from 1963 t0 1968 were Royal Engineers, and their support corps(RCT, RAOC,ACC,RAMC, etc)on Operation CRE Crown, building an airfield 100 kms northeast of Ubon, there were no infantry units or regiments of the line on active duties at any time in that period, there was however a badged officer on the permanent staff , and the occasional grey ghost passed through on their way northeast, my avatar is a photo of RSM yacker yates of Operation Crown,There is an australian officer conducting an investigation into the affects of AO on british and commonwealth troops stationed on the thai and laos borders,

[surayu]

OP i understand your concern about your healt, somebody already pointed out that there are many more "dangerous" substances around, just to name one, asbesto is still in production/use here, it's also massively imported from other western countries (what a disgrace!).

Asbesto kill about 5.000 people in Italy alone every year and roughly 120.000 in the whole planet yearly too....

[kerryk]

Your statement is completely in error.

Laos was the key to the Vietnam war and was certainly a target. The majority of the Ho Chi Minh trail, the route that supplies were moved from North to South Vietnam was in Laos. The Americans bombed Laos daily for years to prevent supplies from reaching the North Vietnamese Army fighting in South Vietnam.

Thailand was also very concerned with Laos and US troops were first deployed to Thailand in 1962 as a result of the Laotian civil war. Check your history of the SEATO treaty. Britain even deployed combat units to Thailand during that period.

For some interesting reading check out Thai troops and the Plain of Jars in Laos.

The only british troops stationed in Thailand from 1963 t0 1968 were Royal Engineers, and their support corps(RCT, RAOC,ACC,RAMC, etc)on Operation CRE Crown, building an airfield 100 kms northeast of Ubon, there were no infantry units or regiments of the line on active duties at any time in that period, there was however a badged officer on the permanent staff , and the occasional grey ghost passed through on their way northeast, my avatar is a photo of RSM yacker yates of Operation Crown,There is an australian officer conducting an investigation into the affects of AO on british and commonwealth troops stationed on the thai and laos borders,

Following a Pathet Lao offensive in Laos during early 1962, the South East Asia Treaty Organisation establishes a multinational Joint Task Force, JTF 116, to defend Thailand against any potential Pathet Lao or North Vietnamese incursion. The RAF element of this force (Operation Bibber) comprised an initial detachment of 6 Hawker Hunter FGA9s, which was later increased to 10, drawn from No.20 Squadron, which deployed from Tengah to Don Maung in Bangkok, from this date. Subsequently, the detachment transferred to Chieng Mai in northern Thailand between 5 June and 15 November 1962. Despite an invasion scare in June, no incursions across the Thai border took place. Info from RAF museum.