Relatives Of Victims Say No Amnesty

[rixalex]

I note the double standard being applied. Surely, there must be some innocent victims here? Non implicated civilians that were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

The only people who the wrong place wrong time applies to are those who had no choice to be there, like soldiers. Most of the rest were there of their own free volition, they knew it was dangerous, the government had told them, repeatedly; the government had been pleading for weeks for them to leave for that reason. They also knew that what they were doing, by being there, was illegal.

That is a facile argument and an example of the double standard being applied. Here are some examples of undisputed incidents;

May 14, Sarayuth Ampan a medical attendant with a city ambulance team,in an officially marked emergency medical services van, emblazoned with "Ambulance" on the front and back was stationed in the parking lot of the Pinnacle Hotel while a late afternoon battle raged near the Bon Kai market. Rescue team leader Theerapat Klomkleng was standing outside the van as soldiers approached. As Theerapat e opened a door to allow an inspection of the ambulance, one soldier shot through the windshield hitting Sarayuth and showering a female medic inside with glass fragments.. Mr. Ampan was not charged with any crimes and was taken to a Thai army hospital where he was cared for and then released. Was this the result of an overzealous soldier that had a lapse in discipline? Only an official inquiry can determine that.

A scene shown on CNN several times is that of singer Krichana Panichpong who you may know as Kampan Bazoo, being shot in the chest. He had gone out on the balcony his 27th floor condominium to try and rescue a friend that had been shot. Krichana resided at the condominium and was basically trapped in the area. His friend died. Neither he nor his friend were combatants. CNN showed the footage along with soldiers that were firing in the direction of the residential condominium. One doesn't know how these two non combatants were shot. Only an official inquiry can determine that.

Canadian cameraman Nelson Rand was shot and wounded. Other journalists were roughed up by what they believed were military personnel. The reports of fellow journalists at the time were that they were being targeted by the military despite wearing journalist identification. Only an official inquiry can determine if journalists were indeed targeted.

The thai military claims that there were terrorists hidden in the unarmed civilians at the protest site. The protestors claim that the military used plainclothes special forces to incite trouble and to target non combatants. Only an official inquiry can determine if the allegations are true.

As such, I believe your argument glosses over some serious events that do indeed merit a proper investigation and an open hearing.

You seemed to miss the part where i said "Most of the rest ..."

Yes there were a few outside of those there because they had to be ( ie soldiers, medics etc), who were simply very unfortunate in being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but the remainder and the overwhelming majority were there because they decided to be. Nobody forced them. They knew the danger they were putting themselves in. They accepted that and stayed.

Trouble these days is there's a trend for people to never accept personal responsibility. Always some else's fault. Usually the state. Spill a hot cup of coffee over your trousers and it must be the seller's fault for selling it to you hot. Or the person who invented the kettle. Or the electricity board for powering the kettle. Somebody must be at fault and it can't be me attitude. Now give me money so i can feel better.

[OzMick]

I note the double standard being applied. Surely, there must be some innocent victims here? Non implicated civilians that were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

The only people who the wrong place wrong time applies to are those who had no choice to be there, like soldiers. Most of the rest were there of their own free volition, they knew it was dangerous, the government had told them, repeatedly; the government had been pleading for weeks for them to leave for that reason. They also knew that what they were doing, by being there, was illegal.

That is a facile argument and an example of the double standard being applied. Here are some examples of undisputed incidents;

May 14, Sarayuth Ampan a medical attendant with a city ambulance team,in an officially marked emergency medical services van, emblazoned with "Ambulance" on the front and back was stationed in the parking lot of the Pinnacle Hotel while a late afternoon battle raged near the Bon Kai market. Rescue team leader Theerapat Klomkleng was standing outside the van as soldiers approached. As Theerapat e opened a door to allow an inspection of the ambulance, one soldier shot through the windshield hitting Sarayuth and showering a female medic inside with glass fragments.. Mr. Ampan was not charged with any crimes and was taken to a Thai army hospital where he was cared for and then released. Was this the result of an overzealous soldier that had a lapse in discipline? Only an official inquiry can determine that.

A scene shown on CNN several times is that of singer Krichana Panichpong who you may know as Kampan Bazoo, being shot in the chest. He had gone out on the balcony his 27th floor condominium to try and rescue a friend that had been shot. Krichana resided at the condominium and was basically trapped in the area. His friend died. Neither he nor his friend were combatants. CNN showed the footage along with soldiers that were firing in the direction of the residential condominium. One doesn't know how these two non combatants were shot. Only an official inquiry can determine that.

Canadian cameraman Nelson Rand was shot and wounded. Other journalists were roughed up by what they believed were military personnel. The reports of fellow journalists at the time were that they were being targeted by the military despite wearing journalist identification. Only an official inquiry can determine if journalists were indeed targeted.

The thai military claims that there were terrorists hidden in the unarmed civilians at the protest site. The protestors claim that the military used plainclothes special forces to incite trouble and to target non combatants. Only an official inquiry can determine if the allegations are true.

As such, I believe your argument glosses over some serious events that do indeed merit a proper investigation and an open hearing.

4 incidents, with your personal slant.

1/ sounds very much like an accidental discharge.

2/ why would soldiers be firing towards a residential condo? Obvious answer is that they were receiving fire from the building. "Somethings happening, let's go out for a look -see! Great idea, Bozo!"

3/ "Other journalists were roughed up by what they believed were military personnel." Others claimed rough treatment by red guards, and these guys can't be sure. Military uniforms have unit patches, name strips and rank designation - fashion cams don't (usually). Who covered all the security cameras in the area? Wouldn't it defeat the purpose if they then allowed cameramen in?

4/ Black shirts were observed passing through red checkpoints, and being escorted by red guards. What's the easiest way to deny their presence/actions?

Edited June 26, 2011 by OzMick

[Scott]

Two posts deleted; one with unsubstantiated information and a response to it.

[monkfish]

First question to ask:

1. If there were an investigation, is there any chance that the Military could be held accountable?

[cup-O-coffee]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

In my opinion, this is a politically motivated response. This is what keeps walls up and solutions stuck in the mud.

This is not a humane response. It is political.

If you want to follow along in these lines of thinking then it means there is no compassion or forgiveness in your mind.

That is how these people think as well.

A lot of these other posts that are similar in view to yours fail to address a broader range of greed that no one mentions. These people were paid to be there is a lot of what I read. We so what? These people do just about anything for money, and I guaran-dam_n-tee you that they do not have being shot dead in mind. Prostitutes, voters, touts, and just about anything else you can think of that does not have a tax ID number attached to it. These people do things for money that your average foreigner would never do. So using that point is quite ludicrous when one implies that these people "did it for the money" and they deserve to be shot dead, and the families "should not get one satang"; or more stupid yet using the broad brush that "they all were there for the money".

Brilliant thinking!

Thinking along those line, the USA should never have compensated the Japanese (soldiers and concentration camp prisoners), Germans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc etc. because they all fought without money being the issue.

This political bias is sick when one considers the reasons to support it. I hope I never piss you people off, regardless of my motives and intentions.

Until Thailand puts its politics and religions behind and begins to see the human beings standing in front of them, then the body count will continue to increase in proportion to the population growth. Cannon fodder to make a political / religious point.

[hellodolly]

"People's Centre for Fact and Justice" - catchy name, I wonder who that's funded by? Quite possibly a private organisation in Dubai.

The road to reconciliation will be long and rocky as long as the main offenders fail to realise that the Abhisit govt had the right to order them to move their protest from it's site which was disrupting the lives and businesses of Bangkok residents, that the use of lethal weapons (and I include slingshots and petrol bombs) negated their claim to "peaceful protest", and that quite a few of those killed were at the hand of the people they support.

They claim to want punishment for the offenders, in a week they will vote for them to give them immunity from prosecution. That alone makes the event more farce than tragedy.

Right on

I got part way through the article and realized they wanted to blame it all on the government. Their relatives were lily white. Then to top it all off they want the government to give them more money.

It was just another thinly veiled red shirt attempt to wash it's hands of any part in the event and put it all on a legally elected government doing what it is supposed to do.

To all red shirt lovers. I will gladly join in your ranks if you can give me a morally rite decision why it was OK for you to seize property in private and public domain invade hospitals and try to burn it down. If you were peaceful and legally rite what were the guns for. What were the baricades for the fire works the grenade launchers?

You will note that the army came to you with out hiding behind there kid.

I am not expecting you to reply because you have no answer other than that is what Thaksin paid for.

Flame away

[aaacorp]

"People's Centre for Fact and Justice" - catchy name, I wonder who that's funded by? Quite possibly a private organisation in Dubai.

The road to reconciliation will be long and rocky as long as the main offenders fail to realise that the Abhisit govt had the right to order them to move their protest from it's site which was disrupting the lives and businesses of Bangkok residents, that the use of lethal weapons (and I include slingshots and petrol bombs) negated their claim to "peaceful protest", and that quite a few of those killed were at the hand of the people they support.

They claim to want punishment for the offenders, in a week they will vote for them to give them immunity from prosecution. That alone makes the event more farce than tragedy.

Right on

I got part way through the article and realized they wanted to blame it all on the government. Their relatives were lily white. Then to top it all off they want the government to give them more money.

It was just another thinly veiled red shirt attempt to wash it's hands of any part in the event and put it all on a legally elected government doing what it is supposed to do.

To all red shirt lovers. I will gladly join in your ranks if you can give me a morally rite decision why it was OK for you to seize property in private and public domain invade hospitals and try to burn it down. If you were peaceful and legally rite what were the guns for. What were the baricades for the fire works the grenade launchers?

You will note that the army came to you with out hiding behind there kid.

I am not expecting you to reply because you have no answer other than that is what Thaksin paid for.

Flame away

You should become pro red because democrats created Thaksin...

[timekeeper]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

In my opinion, this is a politically motivated response. This is what keeps walls up and solutions stuck in the mud.

This is not a humane response. It is political.

If you want to follow along in these lines of thinking then it means there is no compassion or forgiveness in your mind.

That is how these people think as well.

A lot of these other posts that are similar in view to yours fail to address a broader range of greed that no one mentions. These people were paid to be there is a lot of what I read. We so what? These people do just about anything for money, and I guaran-dam_n-tee you that they do not have being shot dead in mind. Prostitutes, voters, touts, and just about anything else you can think of that does not have a tax ID number attached to it. These people do things for money that your average foreigner would never do. So using that point is quite ludicrous when one implies that these people "did it for the money" and they deserve to be shot dead, and the families "should not get one satang"; or more stupid yet using the broad brush that "they all were there for the money".

Brilliant thinking!

Thinking along those line, the USA should never have compensated the Japanese (soldiers and concentration camp prisoners), Germans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc etc. because they all fought without money being the issue.

This political bias is sick when one considers the reasons to support it. I hope I never piss you people off, regardless of my motives and intentions.

Until Thailand puts its politics and religions behind and begins to see the human beings standing in front of them, then the body count will continue to increase in proportion to the population growth. Cannon fodder to make a political / religious point.

In my opinion, this is a politically motivated response.

no its not, its my motivated response

This is not a humane response.

i do not claim to be a humane thinker hence its my response and reflects how i feel

It is political.

no its not, its my motivated response

If you want to follow along in these lines of thinking then it means there is no compassion or forgiveness in your mind.

you are correct, there is no compassion or forgiveness in my mind

A lot of these other posts that are similar in view to yours fail to address a broader range of greed that no one mentions.

my opinion is not greed related

These people were paid to be there is a lot of what I read. We so what?

they were paid to protest and act illegally by Thaksin

These people do just about anything for money, and I guaran-dam_n-tee you that they do not have being shot dead in mind.

au contraire, many said they were willing to die for the cause and presumably the wages, so they got what they wanted

These people do things for money that your average foreigner would never do.

a generalisation that is unsound, its likely foreigners do far worse for less money

So using that point is quite ludicrous when one implies that these people "did it for the money" and they deserve to be shot dead

i did not say that they deserved to be shot dead, do not twist my words

and the families "should not get one satang";

i did say that and why should they be compensated becasue a memeber of the family did a stupid thing, acted illegally and got shot in the process

if they had robbed a jewellers and were shot and killed in the process, should they be compensated for it?

many reds did in fact rob jewellers and loot shops before they left and then they burned down the shops to conceal the fact

or more stupid yet using the broad brush that "they all were there for the money".

i did not say that although for the red leaders it was a very profitable enterprise

many millions of baht was found in their bank accounts that could not be accounted for

Brilliant thinking!

thank you!

Thinking along those line, the USA should never have compensated the Japanese (soldiers and concentration camp prisoners), Germans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc etc. because they all fought without money being the issue.

i agree,

This political bias is sick when one considers the reasons to support it. I hope I never piss you people off, regardless of my motives and intentions.

so any individual who does not agree with your soft hearted PC attitude is sick?

you are far too sensitive for the rough and tumble of forums

Until Thailand puts its politics and religions behind and begins to see the human beings standing in front of them, then the body count will continue to increase in proportion to the population growth. Cannon fodder to make a political / religious point.

som non na!

Edited June 26, 2011 by timekeeper

[hellodolly]

"People's Centre for Fact and Justice" - catchy name, I wonder who that's funded by? Quite possibly a private organisation in Dubai.

The road to reconciliation will be long and rocky as long as the main offenders fail to realise that the Abhisit govt had the right to order them to move their protest from it's site which was disrupting the lives and businesses of Bangkok residents, that the use of lethal weapons (and I include slingshots and petrol bombs) negated their claim to "peaceful protest", and that quite a few of those killed were at the hand of the people they support.

They claim to want punishment for the offenders, in a week they will vote for them to give them immunity from prosecution. That alone makes the event more farce than tragedy.

Right on

I got part way through the article and realized they wanted to blame it all on the government. Their relatives were lily white. Then to top it all off they want the government to give them more money.

It was just another thinly veiled red shirt attempt to wash it's hands of any part in the event and put it all on a legally elected government doing what it is supposed to do.

To all red shirt lovers. I will gladly join in your ranks if you can give me a morally rite decision why it was OK for you to seize property in private and public domain invade hospitals and try to burn it down. If you were peaceful and legally rite what were the guns for. What were the baricades for the fire works the grenade launchers?

You will note that the army came to you with out hiding behind there kid.

I am not expecting you to reply because you have no answer other than that is what Thaksin paid for.

Flame away

You should become pro red because democrats created Thaksin...

Funny you should mention that. I was pro red until after ten days of protesting in Bangkok it became obvious they were not interested in Democracy they had a private agenda being manned by paid protestors. When they set up barricades that was the last straw. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer in fact I am not but I am way ahead of most of them. I admitted I was wrong and moved on.

[aaacorp]

In my opinion, this is a politically motivated response.

no its not, its my motivated response

based on convictions you received via political informations and politically financed media or state media which made you take a side, so yes it s YOUR political opinion

If you want to follow along in these lines of thinking then it means there is no compassion or forgiveness in your mind.

you are correct, there is no compassion or forgiveness in my mind

So if there is no compassion or forgiveness you re on the villain side, because good guys always forgive, essentialy tyo have a better futur, whil villains try to reproduce the same scheme

These people were paid to be there is a lot of what I read. We so what?

they were paid to protest and act illegally by Thaksin

Thaksin who is a bad guy but was created by people like you who are selfish and do not pretend to care about people. Thaksin just used what you left behind to access power : poor people, who where left behind...Thaksin made it for himself, but...hey...this is politic...you convince people who are deceived by political parties in place....if the politics tried to do something earlier and educate them (instead of just say : they don t understand politic, they are not educated) maybe know they would understand that Thaksin is populist right?

These people do just about anything for money, and I guaran-dam_n-tee you that they do not have being shot dead in mind.

au contraire, many said they were willing to die for the cause and presumably the wages, so they got what they wanted

It's well known that thai people are the one who inspired the kamikaze fashion

and the families "should not get one satang";

i did say that and why should they be compensated becasue a memeber of the family did a stupid thing, acted illegally and got shot in the process

if they had robbed a jewellers and were shot and killed in the process, should they be compensated for it?

many reds did in fact rob jewellers and loot shops before they left and then they burned down the shops to conceal the fact

In fact in many countries if you shoot an unarmed burglar in your house you face jail, and will have to pay compensation for the wounds

or more stupid yet using the broad brush that "they all were there for the money".

i did not say that although for the red leaders it was a very profitable enterprise

many millions of baht was found in their bank accounts that could not be accounted for

You mean the thai farmers have millions of baht in their account?

Thinking along those line, the USA should never have compensated the Japanese (soldiers and concentration camp prisoners), Germans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc etc. because they all fought without money being the issue.

i agree,

Let me guess...you re a proud republican right?

[aaacorp]

"People's Centre for Fact and Justice" - catchy name, I wonder who that's funded by? Quite possibly a private organisation in Dubai.

The road to reconciliation will be long and rocky as long as the main offenders fail to realise that the Abhisit govt had the right to order them to move their protest from it's site which was disrupting the lives and businesses of Bangkok residents, that the use of lethal weapons (and I include slingshots and petrol bombs) negated their claim to "peaceful protest", and that quite a few of those killed were at the hand of the people they support.

They claim to want punishment for the offenders, in a week they will vote for them to give them immunity from prosecution. That alone makes the event more farce than tragedy.

Right on

I got part way through the article and realized they wanted to blame it all on the government. Their relatives were lily white. Then to top it all off they want the government to give them more money.

It was just another thinly veiled red shirt attempt to wash it's hands of any part in the event and put it all on a legally elected government doing what it is supposed to do.

To all red shirt lovers. I will gladly join in your ranks if you can give me a morally rite decision why it was OK for you to seize property in private and public domain invade hospitals and try to burn it down. If you were peaceful and legally rite what were the guns for. What were the baricades for the fire works the grenade launchers?

You will note that the army came to you with out hiding behind there kid.

I am not expecting you to reply because you have no answer other than that is what Thaksin paid for.

Flame away

You should become pro red because democrats created Thaksin...

Funny you should mention that. I was pro red until after ten days of protesting in Bangkok it became obvious they were not interested in Democracy they had a private agenda being manned by paid protestors. When they set up barricades that was the last straw. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer in fact I am not but I am way ahead of most of them. I admitted I was wrong and moved on.

this sentence was not meant to tell Thaksin or the red are the good ones and the democrats the bad ones...but it s how Thaksin emerged and how he rised...and felt

[hanuman1]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

In my opinion, this is a politically motivated response. This is what keeps walls up and solutions stuck in the mud.

This is not a humane response. It is political.

If you want to follow along in these lines of thinking then it means there is no compassion or forgiveness in your mind.

That is how these people think as well.

A lot of these other posts that are similar in view to yours fail to address a broader range of greed that no one mentions. These people were paid to be there is a lot of what I read. We so what? These people do just about anything for money, and I guaran-dam_n-tee you that they do not have being shot dead in mind. Prostitutes, voters, touts, and just about anything else you can think of that does not have a tax ID number attached to it. These people do things for money that your average foreigner would never do. So using that point is quite ludicrous when one implies that these people "did it for the money" and they deserve to be shot dead, and the families "should not get one satang"; or more stupid yet using the broad brush that "they all were there for the money".

Brilliant thinking!

Thinking along those line, the USA should never have compensated the Japanese (soldiers and concentration camp prisoners), Germans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc etc. because they all fought without money being the issue.

This political bias is sick when one considers the reasons to support it. I hope I never piss you people off, regardless of my motives and intentions.

Until Thailand puts its politics and religions behind and begins to see the human beings standing in front of them, then the body count will continue to increase in proportion to the population growth. Cannon fodder to make a political / religious point.

His family got bullied by red shirts and now he's got a lot of steam to let off. Most of the - shall we say - more 'outspoken' anti-red posters here have incurred some kind of loss either directly or indirectly because of red shirts, apparently.

Whilst their rants are understandable, it doesn't exactly make for a fully reasoned discussed as they are clearly still feeling rather emotional about their subject.

[jdinasia]

[

You should become pro red because democrats created Thaksin...

Huh?

Thaksin created Thaksin. He lied cheated and stole ... nobody made him do any of that. He did it because he was greedy far beyond the pale of normal greed.

I still agree with the families even though they will never get satisfactory answers in most cases. No Amnesty.

Hanuman1 --- most anti-Thaksin (and thus anti-red, due to them being a tool of Thaksin) posters have incurred some kind of ......?????? All of Thailand has suffered loss due to him, but to characterize the folks against the reds/Thaksin the way you do is simply trolling imho.

Cup-o-coffee ... Thailand is an aging society (not a growing one) in terms of population. Your suggestions regarding religion? ... I just don't know what to say!

[timekeeper]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

In my opinion, this is a politically motivated response. This is what keeps walls up and solutions stuck in the mud.

This is not a humane response. It is political.

If you want to follow along in these lines of thinking then it means there is no compassion or forgiveness in your mind.

That is how these people think as well.

A lot of these other posts that are similar in view to yours fail to address a broader range of greed that no one mentions. These people were paid to be there is a lot of what I read. We so what? These people do just about anything for money, and I guaran-dam_n-tee you that they do not have being shot dead in mind. Prostitutes, voters, touts, and just about anything else you can think of that does not have a tax ID number attached to it. These people do things for money that your average foreigner would never do. So using that point is quite ludicrous when one implies that these people "did it for the money" and they deserve to be shot dead, and the families "should not get one satang"; or more stupid yet using the broad brush that "they all were there for the money".

Brilliant thinking!

Thinking along those line, the USA should never have compensated the Japanese (soldiers and concentration camp prisoners), Germans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc etc. because they all fought without money being the issue.

This political bias is sick when one considers the reasons to support it. I hope I never piss you people off, regardless of my motives and intentions.

Until Thailand puts its politics and religions behind and begins to see the human beings standing in front of them, then the body count will continue to increase in proportion to the population growth. Cannon fodder to make a political / religious point.

His family got bullied by red shirts and now he's got a lot of steam to let off. Most of the - shall we say - more 'outspoken' anti-red posters here have incurred some kind of loss either directly or indirectly because of red shirts, apparently.

Whilst their rants are understandable, it doesn't exactly make for a fully reasoned discussed as they are clearly still feeling rather emotional about their subject.

i do not need you to pop up and explain my motives every time i make a statement that offends some people

don't you just get sick of political correctness ..........??

i hate reds, i hate thaksin, no excuses or justification as to why, i just do

get it???

[timekeeper]

In my opinion, this is a politically motivated response.

no its not, its my motivated response

based on convictions you received via political informations and politically financed media or state media which made you take a side, so yes it s YOUR political opinion

If you want to follow along in these lines of thinking then it means there is no compassion or forgiveness in your mind.

you are correct, there is no compassion or forgiveness in my mind

So if there is no compassion or forgiveness you re on the villain side, because good guys always forgive, essentialy tyo have a better futur, whil villains try to reproduce the same scheme

These people were paid to be there is a lot of what I read. We so what?

they were paid to protest and act illegally by Thaksin

Thaksin who is a bad guy but was created by people like you who are selfish and do not pretend to care about people.

Thaksin just used what you left behind to access power : poor people, who where left behind...Thaksin made it for himself, but...hey...this is politic...you convince people who are deceived by political parties in place....if the politics tried to do something earlier and educate them (instead of just say : they don t understand politic, they are not educated) maybe know they would understand that Thaksin is populist right?

These people do just about anything for money, and I guaran-dam_n-tee you that they do not have being shot dead in mind.

au contraire, many said they were willing to die for the cause and presumably the wages, so they got what they wanted

It's well known that thai people are the one who inspired the kamikaze fashion

and the families "should not get one satang";

i did say that and why should they be compensated becasue a memeber of the family did a stupid thing, acted illegally and got shot in the process

if they had robbed a jewellers and were shot and killed in the process, should they be compensated for it?

many reds did in fact rob jewellers and loot shops before they left and then they burned down the shops to conceal the fact

In fact in many countries if you shoot an unarmed burglar in your house you face jail, and will have to pay compensation for the wounds

or more stupid yet using the broad brush that "they all were there for the money".

i did not say that although for the red leaders it was a very profitable enterprise

many millions of baht was found in their bank accounts that could not be accounted for

You mean the thai farmers have millions of baht in their account?

Thinking along those line, the USA should never have compensated the Japanese (soldiers and concentration camp prisoners), Germans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc etc. because they all fought without money being the issue.

i agree,

Let me guess...you re a proud republican right?

i was going to reply to you but your are so far wide of the mark even in understanding my post and heavily tainted with red tinted glasses i really can't be bothered wasting my time

you are simply another red i cannot abide

republican? bad guess! i am not even an american!

[rubl]

His family got bullied by red shirts and now he's got a lot of steam to let off. Most of the - shall we say - more 'outspoken' anti-red posters here have incurred some kind of loss either directly or indirectly because of red shirts, apparently.

Whilst their rants are understandable, it doesn't exactly make for a fully reasoned discussed as they are clearly still feeling rather emotional about their subject.

i do not need you to pop up and explain my motives every time i make a statement that offends some people

don't you just get sick of political correctness ..........??

i hate reds, i hate thaksin, no excuses or justification as to why, i just doget it???

Translation: no discussion possible.

[timekeeper]

His family got bullied by red shirts and now he's got a lot of steam to let off. Most of the - shall we say - more 'outspoken' anti-red posters here have incurred some kind of loss either directly or indirectly because of red shirts, apparently.

Whilst their rants are understandable, it doesn't exactly make for a fully reasoned discussed as they are clearly still feeling rather emotional about their subject

.

i do not need you to pop up and explain my motives every time i make a statement that offends some people

don't you just get sick of political correctness ..........??

i hate reds, i hate thaksin, no excuses or justification as to why, i just do

get it???

/quote]

Translation: no discussion possible.

or required ..........

thanks Rubl

[cdnvic]

Two people who keep fighting have just been silenced until after the election, as previously promised.

[Credo]

Until there is an inquiry into this situation, no lessons will be learned. Many people are jumping to the conclusion of guilt or innocence and the impartiality of an inquiry. First, it is possible to set up a committee of professionals to review the forensic evidence, to interview and to determine what happened. In many cases they may not be able to determine what happened.

The government ultimately will have to be decide to charge or not charge any particular person. But that can only be done after an inquiry.

Citizens were killed by the military. This is not a good thing for the country.

[rixalex]

Until there is an inquiry into this situation, no lessons will be learned. Many people are jumping to the conclusion of guilt or innocence and the impartiality of an inquiry. First, it is possible to set up a committee of professionals to review the forensic evidence, to interview and to determine what happened. In many cases they may not be able to determine what happened.

The government ultimately will have to be decide to charge or not charge any particular person. But that can only be done after an inquiry.

Citizens were killed by the military. This is not a good thing for the country.

All very well but you don't address the problem of how the government can put together a committee whose findings will be respected, when a lot of those involved have already decided who was at fault. Take the relatives of those killed in the article. They have already come to the conclusion that their loved ones who died were innocent martyrs. Anybody who tells them different will be labelled as being biased - i can guarantee you that.

This is the challenge, and i don't see any obvious solutions. Do you?

[animatic]

Until there is an inquiry into this situation, no lessons will be learned. Many people are jumping to the conclusion of guilt or innocence and the impartiality of an inquiry. First, it is possible to set up a committee of professionals to review the forensic evidence, to interview and to determine what happened. In many cases they may not be able to determine what happened.

The government ultimately will have to be decide to charge or not charge any particular person. But that can only be done after an inquiry.

Citizens were killed by the military. This is not a good thing for the country.

It's nice to think ANOTHER full inquiry will do this,

but I very much doubt anything will be gained.

One side will not believe anything the other announces;

real truth or not.

Besides what several people mean by a Full Inquiry is

'those they not like being blamed" and removed from society.

That is not reconciliation but retaliation, or just a win for their aims,

nothing so societally beneficial, just a win.

What was the root cause for citizens being killed by the military?

Who forced the military to act against civilians?

Why was there a need for any kind of armed military intervention?

If one mus apportion blame for global acts ,

as well as individual actions,

society must look at the root cause.

Who set the actions in motion

and kept applying energy actively

to reach the end we arrived at?

It all points one way,

and last year the army is not necessarily that way.

If we look at the coup there are clear reasons for that earlier intervention,

and well wonders of wonders we see a similar root cause.

Where there's fire.

Edited June 26, 2011 by animatic

[whybother]

Until there is an inquiry into this situation, no lessons will be learned. Many people are jumping to the conclusion of guilt or innocence and the impartiality of an inquiry. First, it is possible to set up a committee of professionals to review the forensic evidence, to interview and to determine what happened. In many cases they may not be able to determine what happened.

The government ultimately will have to be decide to charge or not charge any particular person. But that can only be done after an inquiry.

Citizens were killed by the military. This is not a good thing for the country.

An independent inquiry would probably find that of the 92 people killed:

- army personnel were killed by red/black shirt grenades.

- a number of protesters were killed by either the army or by red/black shirts on April 10. Given the way April 10 unfolded, these were probably innocent protesters, in that they didn't expect the protest to turn deadly. Unfortunately, they got caught in the middle of a gun fight between the army and black shirts.

- a journalist was killed by either the army or by red/black shirts on April 10.

- 1 soldier was killed by friendly fire.

- 1 renegade soldier was killed by an unknown sniper.

- a number of protesters were killed when attacking the army outside of the barricaded protest zone. There may have been a couple of "innocents" in this lot, but given the red/black shirts were firing a number of weapons (including guns) from behind tyre barricades, most of these were not innocent.

- a number of protesters were killed when the army stormed through the protesters barricades. These were most likely not "innocents" given that the army came under fire when going through the barricades.

- a number of "innocents" were killed in the wat. From reports, some of these appear to have been killed by the army. Given the fire fights going on at the time, maybe not all of them were.

I would doubt that any inquiry could identify any specific person (army or black shirts) that killed someone, particularly on April 10.

[scorecard]

So the pt/red shirts/udd/thaksin won't agree to amnesty for the people involved in the deaths of the red shirts (or whatever way you label them, and may they rest in peace).

So I guess that means that pt/red shirts/udd/thaksin would be totally consistent and also agree that any red shirts who were responisble for the deaths of army personnel, civilans or whatever should also not be allowed to have amnesty.

And with their claims of no double standards then I have every confidence that they will be consistent.

I also believe that pigs can fly.

[Mrjlh]

Many people are jumping to the conclusion of guilt or innocence and the impartiality of an inquiry.

Citizens were killed by the military. This is not a good thing for the country.

Boy look who's jumping to conclusions! Guilty without a trial!!

Don't even answer....this was your quote!

[philw]

Until there is an inquiry into this situation, no lessons will be learned. Many people are jumping to the conclusion of guilt or innocence and the impartiality of an inquiry. First, it is possible to set up a committee of professionals to review the forensic evidence, to interview and to determine what happened. In many cases they may not be able to determine what happened.

The government ultimately will have to be decide to charge or not charge any particular person. But that can only be done after an inquiry.

Citizens were killed by the military. This is not a good thing for the country.

Simply and intelligently put, thank you.

[jdinasia]

Many people are jumping to the conclusion of guilt or innocence and the impartiality of an inquiry.

Citizens were killed by the military. This is not a good thing for the country.

Boy look who's jumping to conclusions! Guilty without a trial!!

Don't even answer....this was your quote!

I don't think that some being killed by the military is in question, is it?

(I don't question it ... but I suspect that the number that can be traced to the military with any certainty will be quite small and that it may be possible that they were operating inside the RoE thus "killed' would be accurate and "murdered" would not be.)

WB lays it out pretty clearly above ...

I would also like to see a new (and full) inquiry into the 2500+ extrajudicial murders in 2003 ... I probably won't get what I want there either!

[Siripon]

If Pheua Thai are able to form the next government, they will buy off the relatives of dead red shirts by offering compensation using tax payers money.

[Buchholz]

If Pheua Thai are able to form the next government, they will buy off the relatives of dead red shirts by offering compensation using tax payers money.

Apparently the taxpayers money used to secure their bail by the current government, as ironic as that is, isn't enough.

[Credo]

Putting together a commission to do a full inquiry will not be an easy task, but if you balance the varying sides and remove those with an obvious agenda, you have a start. In an inquiry such as this, not everyone will need to or will have to agree. The available information needs to be presented and documented.

You may not get resolution with the information, but you certainly won't get it without information. The anti-Thaksin brigade will continue to blame Thaksin and the anti-government brigade will blame the Democratic-led government. The rest would like to know what happened and why in this very unfortunate situation.

What you do with the information is a secondary consideration. An inquiry is a starting point; it is fact-finding. It documents eye-witness accounts, which may or may not be accurate. An inquiry doesn't need to decide on legal action.

I firmly believe there are lessons to be learned from an full-inquiry. It's about openness and transparency.

[aaacorp]

removed

Edited June 26, 2011 by aaacorp