Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[billyfix]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

[longway]

They just transfer themselves to another party if need be. The games have just begun.

In fact its the duty of the opposition to keep an oversight of the government, if you complain about this case then you are just budding fascists.

Edited July 9, 2011 by longway

[animatic]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

So you are in favour of any wrong-doing by the winning party being overlooked because they won?

Personally my hope is that laws are not thrown out the window, but abided by, and that it can be shown that Puea Thai did. If they didn't, well then they get what's coming.

Disenfranchising the voters choice will only lead to one big sh*t fight. Sore losers always lose anyway. It 's just a matter of time.

But this is not disenfranchising the voters. Not at all. It is about removing an illegal presence in a party by removing the illegal control mechanism from the party leadership.

If people voted for an MP the greatest chance is that their MP will still be their MP unless they committed a bannable infraction. In which case there will be a by election in the one constituency. But if the party itself is using illegal means to get elected, then the party is culpable. That doesn't mean every MP from that party loses their position. They may have to move to another party, but retain their seats, only the party leadership that broke laws is culpable.

And is EXACTLY the same thing the PTP tried to do to Abhisit 2.5 years ago.

Fair play. Good for the goose, good for the gander.

Except in this case there is clearly seen Thaksin controlling PTP and before it was Abhisit allegedly dealing with banned party backers. One picture of Abhisit with Newin doesn't prove anything, they needed someone at the alleged meetings to testify a deal was struck, between them, and not between the legal heads of their factions. That witness never materialized.

The EC on the other hand has a wealth of publiclly available sources to show Thaksin having his hands deep into the control of PTP during this election cycle.

Will this be enough... who knows, but it's so blatant and obvious it would be a disservice to the nation to to pretend this 800lb gorilla is not sitting in the room.

Edited July 9, 2011 by animatic

[rixalex]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

Doesn't matter whether or not the Dems are hypocrites. It matters whether PTP have broken electoral laws. If they haven't, what do they (or you) have to fear? Nothing. If they have, well then they can cry all they like about it not being fair, or about the Dems being hypocrites, but they'll still only have themselves to blame.

[animatic]

The Reds will not accept this objection on the grounds that whatever laws were put into effect by those who put Abhisit into power are null, and for the very same reasons. They never considered Abhisit to have come into a position of power by legitimate means. Thaksin was ousted by a military coup, and after Samak, who came into power via democratic process, was declared to have conflicting interests (the prime minister had his own TV show), Abhisit was appointed -- by the same political regime that came into power through military force. Therefore, any laws passed during that time by that regime would be considered undemocratic and thus, illegitimate.

By the same token, if Thaksin controlled PTP with the help of other banned politicians, then it can equally be argued that PTP won the election by fraud and it is also invalid. Similar to the 2006 cockup. Q. Did the EC screw up not calling Thaksin's control out of order during the election cycle? So the EC made an insurmountable mistake again? So a new election without Thaksins influence could be called for. An expensive solution.

This is one possible EC / Court interpretation.

Th less expensive and less disruptive is to dissolve PTP and the MPs just join a new umbrella party. This has the effect of forcing yet again a clean up of TRT/PPP/TRT/ new party leadership. The point being if they have not learned from history to NOT get caught, then how can they govern effectively. New leadership over their MPs is called for.

The other possibility is of course they beat the charges and all goes on as it is.

Edited July 9, 2011 by animatic

[noahvail]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

Doesn't matter whether or not the Dems are hypocrites. It matters whether PTP have broken electoral laws. If they haven't, what do they (or you) have to fear? Nothing. If they have, well then they can cry all they like about it not being fair, or about the Dems being hypocrites, but they'll still only have themselves to blame.

+1

[animatic]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

Doesn't matter whether or not the Dems are hypocrites. It matters whether PTP have broken electoral laws. If they haven't, what do they (or you) have to fear? Nothing. If they have, well then they can cry all they like about it not being fair, or about the Dems being hypocrites, but they'll still only have themselves to blame.

Besides PTP tried EXACTLY this same tactic themselves, and lost the case...

Oh boo hoo they are using our tactics against us... that is sooooo unfair!!!

NOT!

Edited July 9, 2011 by animatic

[Thaddeus]

What a farce.. for a country that puts so much on not loosing face they're doing a pretty good job of it at the moment..

Yep...... next campaign promise will be free Botox injections.

Forgot to add.

Free Kleenex for all, a universal panacea for cry babies and tossers alike.

[ryladie99]

Here we go again

In 1980 President Reagan said " here we go again " we the American were laughing. Now you say here we go again in Bangkok I can not laugh because, it is going to be political conflict and turmoil. Frankly I am not affiliate with any Thai political group. I can predict and give my 90% accurate feedback because, I have no interest in Thailand except come and go as a tourist for a week. My take and opinion.

[ballpoint]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

Yes, it is "common knowledge" that Newin is heavily involved with the BJT. If proof of that can be found then he should be judged under the same rule. However, I'd imagine he took pains to keep any outright signs of his involvement out of the public eye. Unlike Thaksin, who for whatever reason, (arrogance, ego, stupidity...), very publically broadcast the proof of his control over the PTP.

[geriatrickid]

...

Is thedistribution of a few bahts worth of noodles really a serious election act violation?

...

It was the local branch of the EC that included the "noodles incident" in their election report. The Democrats have nothing to do with that.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that just, before the election, Pheu Thai asked the EC to disband the Democrats ... because they "criticised it's candidates".

Lets not let a small local incident about noodles distract from the real issues.

I would view dissolution for criticizing candidates as a ridiculous charge.

But letting banned, self exiled and convicted Thaksin control, finance and,

dictate positions and membership positions to the party is an extremely serious charge,

Ok, so we will put the noodle dish aside. How about you take a stab at answering the question; What is the motive for bringing a "complaint" against the PTP?

Do the people defending the activity honestly believe that the motive is based solely on the accusers' love of Thailand and respect for the electoral process?

[animatic]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

hy·po

¹   [/url][hahy-poh] noun, plural -pos, verb Informal .–noun 1. a hypodermic syringe or injection. 2. a stimulus or boost.–verb (used with object)

3.to administer a hypodermic injection to.4.to stimulate by or as if by administering a hypodermic injection.5.to increase, boost, or augment: to hypo the car's power byinstalling a bigger engine.

-crat

 a combining form meaning “ruler,” “member of a ruling body,”“advocate of a particular form of rule,” used in the formation of compound words: autocrat; technocrat.

Stimulating Ruling Body They might actual like that.

[animatic]

...

Is thedistribution of a few bahts worth of noodles really a serious election act violation?

...

It was the local branch of the EC that included the "noodles incident" in their election report. The Democrats have nothing to do with that.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that just, before the election, Pheu Thai asked the EC to disband the Democrats ... because they "criticised it's candidates".

Lets not let a small local incident about noodles distract from the real issues.

I would view dissolution for criticizing candidates as a ridiculous charge.

But letting banned, self exiled and convicted Thaksin control, finance and,

dictate positions and membership positions to the party is an extremely serious charge,

Ok, so we will put the noodle dish aside. How about you take a stab at answering the question; What is the motive for bringing a "complaint" against the PTP?

Do the people defending the activity honestly believe that the motive is based solely on the accusers' love of Thailand and respect for the electoral process?

The motive as you have ignored in repeated statements is obviously

to remove Thaksins illegal control over PTP.

And yes, a love of Thailand would be a valid reason for wanting to do this.

Edited July 9, 2011 by animatic

[OzMick]

And who does the disqualifying? The FIFA? euhhhhhh

Are soccer players tested for steroids? there a few other sports you know.

BTW I admit that I had to google Kropotkin - had him confused with Potemkin, or at least his name-sake ship. russian history not my strong suit!

[noahvail]

...

Is thedistribution of a few bahts worth of noodles really a serious election act violation?

...

It was the local branch of the EC that included the "noodles incident" in their election report. The Democrats have nothing to do with that.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that just, before the election, Pheu Thai asked the EC to disband the Democrats ... because they "criticised it's candidates".

Lets not let a small local incident about noodles distract from the real issues.

I would view dissolution for criticizing candidates as a ridiculous charge.

But letting banned, self exiled and convicted Thaksin control, finance and,

dictate positions and membership positions to the party is an extremely serious charge,

Ok, so we will put the noodle dish aside. How about you take a stab at answering the question; What is the motive for bringing a "complaint" against the PTP?

Do the people defending the activity honestly believe that the motive is based solely on the accusers' love of Thailand and respect for the electoral process?

Rarely in life is an undertaking begun with only a "sole" motive. Certainly, the legal team that put forward the complaint did so to remove people who are leaders of the PTP and get them banned for 5 years; and they did this with the knowledge that, according to Thai law, the successor to PTP will control the government next time around. Their motive is NOT to bring down the newly-elected government, but to send a message to the Thai people that the PTP broke election laws. And that can be construed as being a motive based on their love of Thailand, its people, and the electoral proces..

But to attempt to couch that in such a simplistic manner as you have done, does a disservice to your question.

[animatic]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

Yes, it is "common knowledge" that Newin is heavily involved with the BJT. If proof of that can be found then he should be judged under the same rule. However, I'd imagine he took pains to keep any outright signs of his involvement out of the public eye. Unlike Thaksin, who for whatever reason, (arrogance, ego, stupidity...), very publically broadcast the proof of his control over the PTP.

"Unlike Thaksin, who for whatever reason, (arrogance, ego, stupidity...), very publically broadcast the proof of his control over the PTP."

Which is why this case MUST be filed.

[wolf5370]

Here we go again

In 1980 President Reagan said " here we go again " we the American were laughing. Now you say here we go again in Bangkok I can not laugh because, it is going to be political conflict and turmoil. Frankly I am not affiliate with any Thai political group. I can predict and give my 90% accurate feedback because, I have no interest in Thailand except come and go as a tourist for a week. My take and opinion.

If you have no interest in Thailand, why are you member of a Thai forum? and why are you reading the news forum, and in particular a political thread? Very confusing.

[animatic]

To clarify there is NOT YET a newly elected government.

There IS a newly elected Parliament,

subject to review of complaints by the EC for another few weeks.

But it is not installed yet, and has not convienned yet

Edited July 9, 2011 by animatic

[hammered]

Totally stupid move by the Democrats. They need to learn that all these attacks make them more unpopular and less likely to lead any government. It is time to accept the defeat and for the Dem party to take a long hard look at its own failures and unpopularity and work on these so that Thailand can have a viable alternative for government in the not so distant future.

To just blame others continually for your defeat is to never move forward.

Initially Abhisit did the right thing in congratulating and stating he wouldnt stand against Yingluck etc. Now we are back to the Dems just seeming like bad losers and driving people further into PTP support.

[wolf5370]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

hy·po

¹    [hahy-poh] Show IPA noun, plural -pos, verb Informal .–noun 1. a hypodermic syringe or injection. 2. a stimulus or boost.–verb (used with object)

3.to administer a hypodermic injection to.4.to stimulate by or as if by administering a hypodermic injection.5.to increase, boost, or augment: to hypo the car's power byinstalling a bigger engine.

-crat

 a combining form meaning "ruler," "member of a ruling body,""advocate of a particular form of rule," used in the formation of compound words: autocrat; technocrat. Stimulating Ruling Body They might actual like that.

Yes, must admit I did snigger at the typo too - my thinking was: Autocrat = Single entity having absolute rule - hence crat = Ruling enitity. Hypo (as a prefix) - means deficient. So, a deficient ruling body. Which I took as a better insult than the (presumed) one he meant "hypocrite".

[OzMick]

advanced member we all can see which side your coming from , why di you really wont to give the party another go , they lost no matter what , and having people like you on yr soap box don't help Thailand unless you are one of the rich !

"advanced member" is not a poster's title, it is a descriptor used by many. Your use of pronouns is also confusing, though I'm sure you know what it is that you are attempting to express. The little red line under a word means that you have mis-spelt it.

Better luck next time.

[wolf5370]

advanced member we all can see which side your coming from , why di you really wont to give the party another go , they lost no matter what , and having people like you on yr soap box don't help Thailand unless you are one of the rich !

"advanced member" is not a poster's title, it is a descriptor used by many. Your use of pronouns is also confusing, though I'm sure you know what it is that you are attempting to express. The little red line under a word means that you have mis-spelt it.

Better luck next time.

The little red line depends on what browser, OS and add-ons you are using - not everyone gets spell check.

[Ricardo]

Abhisit is a "little man" who speaks with a twisted tongue.. first he conceded defeat in the election and wows to be a constructive opposition....now he is trying to create mayhem and chaos or even civil war just to satisfies his selfish ends...

why can't the Democrats accept that they had lost the peoples' mandate..a very very sour loser....

Surely former-PM Abhisit has resigned the leadership of the Dems, and I can't see any of the news-reports on this thread quoting his support (or otherwise) for this peaceful legal move, so why do you accuse him of speaking "with a twisted tongue" ? What is your source for this claim ?

[hyperdimension]

the head of the Army in Thailand is a sworn Democrat and even urged the People to "do the right thing" and not vote Pheu Thai.

Your statement is false. Prayuth said to vote for "good people". He never said "don't vote for Pheu Thai". It was up to each individual voter to decide who good people are.

[OzMick]

I just love all those that screem for democracy, but complain, screem and have tantrums when it goes against them

Hipocracey you must all eat it for breakfast

I have noodles - I also have a spell-checker.

By your post, I take it that you support the Democrat's actions? the first line is almost a definition of a red-shirt.

[hyperdimension]

I, like others, wonder why this stuff wasn't being brought forward before the election.

Maybe they wanted to continue gathering valuable evidence. The more evidence there is, the stronger their case.

[hyperdimension]

I just love all those that screem for democracy, but complain, screem and have tantrums when it goes against them

That describes the UDD and their supporters over the past 2 years.

[scorecard]

Totally stupid move by the Democrats. They need to learn that all these attacks make them more unpopular and less likely to lead any government. It is time to accept the defeat and for the Dem party to take a long hard look at its own failures and unpopularity and work on these so that Thailand can have a viable alternative for government in the not so distant future.

To just blame others continually for your defeat is to never move forward.

Initially Abhisit did the right thing in congratulating and stating he wouldnt stand against Yingluck etc. Now we are back to the Dems just seeming like bad losers and driving people further into PTP support.

The 'leaders' of the other 'sore losers' tried to get all their supporters to run to the city with a litre of gasoline to burn Bangkok down.

The dems actions somehow pales in comparison.

[jdinasia]

Democrats = hypocrats.

No problem with Newin Chidchob or Banharn Silapa-Archa (veteran politics already banned 5 years too, de facto party leaders) when they are was supporter of Democrat-lead coalitions. Double standard, well.

You do understand that the banned Newin was in the past working with one of the Thaksin parties (PPP) whilst banned and that PTP took this exact same action against the Dems when Newin switched sides in late 2008, right? The difference is that Newin never controlled the Dem party and the charge that PTP filed didn't have any weight. (They should have filed because of Newin's involvement with BJT, but they knew that he controlled the "friends of Newin faction" of PPP -- so they didn't because THAT would have been hypocrisy!) To not go after Thaksin for the same thing that PTP tried against the Dems would be "double standards".

The difference is while Newin and Barnharn may control parties they limited their exposure and Thaksin used his name, image, voice, etc etc etc to continuously show that he is the controlling force behind PTP. I still think that PTP may skate by on this charge and that new criminal charges may be laid against Thaksin instead.

[hammered]

Totally stupid move by the Democrats. They need to learn that all these attacks make them more unpopular and less likely to lead any government. It is time to accept the defeat and for the Dem party to take a long hard look at its own failures and unpopularity and work on these so that Thailand can have a viable alternative for government in the not so distant future.

To just blame others continually for your defeat is to never move forward.

Initially Abhisit did the right thing in congratulating and stating he wouldnt stand against Yingluck etc. Now we are back to the Dems just seeming like bad losers and driving people further into PTP support.

The 'leaders' of the other 'sore losers' tried to get all their supporters to run to the city with a litre of gasoline to burn Bangkok down.

The dems actions somehow pales in comparison.

They have lost the election and they have even managed to lose the arguement on what happened in May which links to they lost the election. This action just makes them more unpopular. Still they and their decreasing numbers of supporters dont get it, which is very bad for the country unless you want to see single party PTP government for aeons, or a blood bath followed by single party PTP government for aeons.