Banking For Americans In Thailand 101

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks Captain...

AFAIK, in my experience, having a U.S. IP turned on hasn't changed my log-in process with BKKB.

As for Fidelity and the brokerages, I have accounts with two other brokerages where they offer -- and I've accepted -- using one of those little keychain devices that generates a unique, one-time 6-digit add-on to your regular password. I guess that's their form of second factor authentication, although use of the tokens at present is strictly voluntary, not required. But ever since I started using them (along with a U.S. IP), I've never had any log-in problems or freezes with either of those two companies.

[Pib]

AFAIK, in my experience, having a U.S. IP turned on hasn't changed my log-in process with BKKB.

Ditto for me. Sometimes I logged onto my Bangkok Bank ibanking account intentionally with a U.S. IP address via VPN...other times I just forget I still have a VPN connection giving me a U.S. IP address. Makes no difference credentials-wise whether I'm logging on from my Bangkok home to Bangkok Bank with a Thailand or U.S. IP address. The only difference I notice is the logon via U.S. IP address is slower/less responsive since my VPN/U.S. IP address connection is going all the way from Bangkok to San Francisco where the VPN server located and then back to Bangkok...... versus just a Bangkok to Bangkok connection.

To confirm nothing has changed I logged onto my Bangkok Bank ibaning via VPN/U.S. IP address just a minute ago....no problem...just less responsive ibanking screens since my connection is going the Bangkok-SF-Bangkok l.....o......n......g way versus just Bangkok-Bangkok.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Blog item into my email box today:

Global Enforcement of Cross-Border Financial Laws Ensnares U.S. Expats

Since the key provisions of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) took effect in July, more and more U.S. expats are finding themselves locked out by foreign banks, brokerages, and other financial institutions. Worse, some expats are even running into difficulty working with U.S.-based institutions, as U.S. financial firms begin to comply with a variety of previously unenforced cross-border financial laws. Recently, we spoke with the Wall Street Journal about some of the steps banks and brokerages are taking to make sure that they don't run afoul of all the cross-border regulations. This includes checking to see if their customers are regularly logging into their accounts from a location outside of the U.S.

Enforcement of many cross-border financial laws is still relatively new, so these zealous actions may taper off as more institutions come up with solutions that allow them to serve U.S. customers without taking on undue burden or risk. In the meantime, American expats will have to be prepared for the possibility that their bank or brokerage may eventually tell them to take their business elsewhere.

As I've advised before, it probably is a good practice to consistently do one's U.S. banking log-ins using a U.S. IP address.

I don't see the email text above on their website, but this is where the email came from.

http://www.crevelingandcreveling.com/blog.html

http://online.wsj.com/articles/expats-left-frustrated-as-banks-cut-services-abroad-1410465182

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And a major reported data breach involving Chase banking customers:

JPMorgan Chase (JPM) Reports Data Breach Affects 76M Households, 7M Small Businesses

On October 2, 2014, JPMorgan Chase & Co. (NYSE: JPM) updated information for its customers, on its Chase.com and JPMorganOnline websites and on the Chase and J.P. Morgan mobile applications, about the previously disclosed cyberattack against the Firm. The Firm disclosed that:

• User contact information – name, address, phone number and email address – and internal JPMorgan Chase information relating to such users have been compromised.

• The compromised data impacts approximately 76 million households and 7 million small businesses.

• However, there is no evidence that account information for such affected customers – account numbers, passwords, user IDs, dates of birth or Social Security numbers – was compromised during this attack.

http://www.streetinsider.com/Corporate+News/JPMorgan+Chase+%28JPM%29+Reports+Data+Breach+Affects+76M+Households%2c+7M+Small+Businesses/9882704.html

As of right now, curiously, there's absolutely no mention of this breach on the Chase.com homepage, or even on their Security page that links off the home page.

But the same report is in the news elsewhere:

JP Morgan Chase Warns Customers About Massive Data Breach

Updated 1:35 AM (ET) October 3rd

JP Morgan Chase is notifying customers that their contact information, “specifically name, address, phone number and email address,” was compromised in a data breach that has affected Chase customers who have used Chase’s “web or mobile services: Chase.com, JPMorganOnline, Chase Mobile or JPMorgan Mobile,” according to a post on the company’s web site.

In a filing to the Securities and Exchange Commission, the company said that the compromise impacts approximately 76 million households and 7 million small businesses. The intrusions reportedly took place during June and July.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrymagid/2014/10/02/jp-morgan-chase-warns-customers-about-massive-data-breach/

Here's the very vague Chase statement that the Forbes column above links to -- one that makes no mention of the huge number of customers who have been affected.

https://www.chase.com/services/customer-notice?jp_aid_a=62378416&jp_aid_p=col_biz_home/trip3

Edited October 3, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pentagon Federal CU has just almost doubled their rates for their 5 and 7 year CDs. Although once a rate leader, PFCU had fallen well down in the pack over the last year or so. But now with the new increases, they're back to being quite competitive again, 2.12% for their 5 year CD and 2.32% for their 7 year CD. There also were smaller increases for their shorter term CDs.

I'm not sure I would take out these longer-term CDs right now at these rates. But, what the latest changes probably reflect, more than anything else, is a growing trend of rising interest rates, particularly for longer term CD deposits, that's been slowly emerging in recent months. And probably, a sign that even higher deposit rates -- no way of knowing how much or how fast -- are finally coming in the future.

https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2014/10/penfed-credit-union-raises-rates-cds-1year-cd-competitive.html

[Pib]

. And probably, a sign that even higher deposit rates -- no way of knowing how much or how fast -- are finally coming in the future.

Yeap, interest rates are on their way up in the U.S....the Fed is doing its best to prepare everyone. And with U.S. interest rates getting ready to trend higher it just may cause the USD to appreciate against the baht which has apparently been happening for the last month or so. The next few years may be good for the USD.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Right now, I've got older 5% and better CDs and 3% checking accounts. No way to replace those CDs right now at anywhere near similar rates.

But hopefully, by the time they come up for renewal, there at least will be some U.S. CD rates available somewhere in the 3-5% range. Not quite there yet, but slowly moving in that direction.

Although, last time I looked, Fidelity alone was offering FDIC insured brokered, 10-year CDs for a bit over 3%. But that's an awful long time to lock up money at that level in a rising interest rates environment.

[Pib]

Yea, exactly when and how fast U.S. interests rates will rise is unknown, but the great majority of economists now seem to be estimating mid 2015 for the Fed to begin raising rates...once the Feb makes that first rate increase additional rate increases will become easier and frequent....then savings and loan rates will begin a faster march upwards. While higher rates has its good side for savers and probably appreciation of the USD, it also has its downside in terms of higher mortgages/loan rates...but for me, mortgages/loans are behind me and higher rates should just benefit me in terms of savings and exchange rates.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, it recently has gotten a bit more expensive to withdraw funds from some Thai bank ATMs using U.S. bank cards -- unless of course, your home country bank is reimbursing you for Thai ATM withdrawal fees.

This past week, when I was out and around, I did a tour of the four Thai bank ATMs that are known to dispense 30,000 baht per withdrawal -- TMB, Ayudhya, CIMB and CitiBank, instead of the lesser amounts available through other Thai banks' ATMs.

And regretfully, ALL of them are now charging the higher 180 baht fee per withdrawal for VISA logo cards (and presumably are continuing to charge the same 180 baht fee against MasterCards). Tested each of them with one of my U.S. VISA-logo debit cards, and got the 180 baht fee notice from each.

So, AFAIK, there is no longer any ATM option I'm aware of for pulling both 30,000 baht and paying (or getting charged) only the prior 150 baht fee for VISA cards that ATMs such as those at TMB had offered at least through the end of October.

All the more reason to (for those who earn their money outside Thailand and need to move it here):

a] only do foreign card ATM withdrawals with cards that fully reimburse the Thai bank ATM fees and charge no foreign currency fee.

b] do bank counter withdrawals with your passport using your debit card or no-cash advance fee credit card that don't charge foreign currency fees -- for the debit cards, if you can find a bank branch that will do them; for the credit cards, if you can find the rare credit card that doesn't charge a cash advance fee.

c] Consider the AMEX Bluebird prepaid card-- if you can get by within their ATM withdrawal limits of $750 per day and $2000 per month, and are willing in Thailand to:

--only use BKK Bank ATMs, since they appear to be the only ones compatible with AMEX cards here.

--pay BKK Bank's 50 baht per ATM withdrawal fee for AMEX cards

--pay Bluebird's own $2.50 out-of-network ATM fee.

Altogether, that still comes out to almost $1.50 less per withdrawal than the regular Thai banks' 180 baht ATM fee (which now is about $5.50 per, due to the improving U.S.-THB exchange rate). Of course, AMEX doesn't reimburse their own or the Thai banks' ATM withdrawal fees, so it's not as good an offer as fully fee-reimbursing cards.

d] Reconsider BKK Bank's New York to Thailand ACH transfer system, which has lower fees than most traditional wire transfers, and can be financially competitive with no-fee ATM card withdrawals, especially if you're transferring larger amounts per transfer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Speaking of credit cards that have no foreign currency fee and no cash advance fee for bank counter withdrawals....

Pentagon Federal Credit Union -- one of the largest credit unions in the U.S. that also has its membership open to the general public -- has just launched a new credit card with both of those features AND a 1.5% cash back feature on all purchases.

It's called the PenFed Defender Visa Signature card, but there is one catch. Unlike PFCU membership and PFCU's other credit cards, this new credit card is ONLY available to active military members (including the National Guard and the Reserves) or those honorably discharged from the military, according to PFCU's web site. Apart from that limitation, it looks like quite a good offering, with a good 8.9% APR rate as well.

The details are here on the PFCU website:

https://penfed.org/visadefender/

And here's the terms document with all the additional details:

PFCU Defender-Visa Terms.pdf

Edited November 14, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

PFCU also has a promotion going for their Visa Promise and Visa Gold credit cards when you get a $100 credit if signing up by the end of Nov 14 and then charging at least $1500 over the next 3 months. Maybe some of their other cards have the same $100 promotion also...I didn't look at all of their cards.

The Promise and Gold cards are also no foreign transaction fee and no cash advance fee just like all of PFCU credit cards. Most are no annual fee cards also. They also have a card that gives you 5% cash back on pay-at-pump fuel transactions. Getting hard to find cards that don't charge a foreign transaction fee and it's very, very, very hard to find credit cards that don't charge a "cash advance" fee which are typically 3%.

For folks thinking about possibly using a PFCU credit card for cash advances counter withdrawals, here are the daily cash advance transaction limits; however, your total credit line could be and probably will be much higher depending on your credit rating. Basically you can get $2,000 per day in a counter withdrawal and then come back the next day and get another $2,000 until you reach your credit line limit whatever that may be.

Members are allowed a total of 3 cash advance authorizations per day, not to exceed each method's daily limit. The maximum cash advance amount per day for all methods combined is $5,000.

Members may advance up to $5,000 into a checking, share, or Money Market Savings Account.

A member may do a cash advance withdraw up to $1,000 per day from a ATM.

A member may withdraw up to $2,000 per day from a financial institution.

[JimGant]

d] Reconsider BKK Bank's New York to Thailand ACH transfer system, which has lower fees than most traditional wire transfers, and can be financially competitive with no-fee ATM card withdrawals, especially if you're transferring larger amounts per transfer.

Amen. This discussion has taken place over a zillion threads, and probably can be found in earlier postings on this thread.....

But, for pure convenience for the US expat, doing an ACH to your Bangkok Bank account, then drawing on it with you secure Be1st smart ATM card, seems to dampen out most inconveniences -- like having your non-EMV US ATM/Debit card cloned; or having it suddenly inactivated for use in Thailand; or reaching your daily ceiling before you've drawn out what you need; or finding out you can't renew it 'cause you now live in Thailand. But, yeah, if you can live with these inconveniences, you'll save a few satang using your completely fee free Schwab card, with ATM fee reimbursement.

But how much satang for these inconveniences? Well, if your US bank, like many, doesn't charge for an ACH transfer, it will cost you 8 satang off the buying TT rate to send $10,000 to Bangkok Bank via ACH (or 15 satang to send $5000). But most cards out there charge at least the card network's 1% fee (and many add 2% to that). So, for an ATM/Debit card like USAA, who only charges the 1%, how does that compare? Using todays TT rate of 32.72, and using that as an indicator of the Visa/MC rate, after the 1% network fee, you'd realize 32.39 baht. But ACHing $10,000, you'd realize 32.64 ($5000, you'd realize 32.57). And USAA is one of the better cards -- not adding an additional 2% and reimbursing the ATM owner's fee. Most other cards (again, Schwab and Statefarm the huge exceptions) would gouge you considerably more. So, for Yanks anyway, the ACH route is a big winner for most of you reading this, when you consider "what's in your wallet?"

Anyway, not to further belabor all of this even more.......but unless you're only a tourist, why wouldn't you have an ACH avenue, at least as a back up to when your Schwab card is cancelled....or when the stop reimbursing the ATM fee (which would definitely then make ACH more cost effective).

Edited November 14, 2014 by JimGant

[Pib]

And USAA is one of the better cards -- not adding an additional 2% and reimbursing the ATM owner's fee. Most other cards (again, Schwab and Statefarm the huge exceptions) would gouge you considerably more. So, for Yanks anyway, the ACH route is a big winner for most of you reading this, when you consider "what's in your wallet?"

Amen Brother! Get a Bangkok Bank account so you can use ACH as Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

But, for pure convenience for the US expat, doing an ACH to your Bangkok Bank account, then drawing on it with you secure Be1st smart ATM card, seems to dampen out most inconveniences -- like having your non-EMV US ATM/Debit card cloned; or having it suddenly inactivated for use in Thailand; or reaching your daily ceiling before you've drawn out what you need; or finding out you can't renew it 'cause you now live in Thailand. But, yeah, if you can live with these inconveniences, you'll save a few satang using your completely fee free Schwab card, with ATM fee reimbursement.

Well, in all fairness, in my years of living in Thailand:

--I haven't had one of my magnetic debit cards cloned, and soon, the U.S. banks will be switching to chip and PIN versions anyway.

--I've never had a debit card inactivated for use in Thailand.

--I've never reached my daily ceiling before getting what I need.

--I've never had a card non-renewed because of my residence.

And more importantly, I've never had any of my debit cards that had no foreign currency fee and also reimbursed Thai ATM fees suddenly drop/reverse either of those perks. So at least thus far, the debit cards are working out pretty nicely for me!

[JDGRUEN]

So much of the talk on this thread amazes me ... I suspect that much of the posting about trendy opportunities in banking, International transfers - rates for this and that - and discounts - are being done by guys who are indulging in fanciful daydreams rather than what they are really doing with very modest incomes ...

[JimGant]

But, for pure convenience for the US expat, doing an ACH to your Bangkok Bank account, then drawing on it with you secure Be1st smart ATM card, seems to dampen out most inconveniences -- like having your non-EMV US ATM/Debit card cloned; or having it suddenly inactivated for use in Thailand; or reaching your daily ceiling before you've drawn out what you need; or finding out you can't renew it 'cause you now live in Thailand. But, yeah, if you can live with these inconveniences, you'll save a few satang using your completely fee free Schwab card, with ATM fee reimbursement.

Well, in all fairness, in my years of living in Thailand:

--I haven't had one of my magnetic debit cards cloned, and soon, the U.S. banks will be switching to chip and PIN versions anyway.

--I've never had a debit card inactivated for use in Thailand.

--I've never reached my daily ceiling before getting what I need.

--I've never had a card non-renewed because of my residence.

And more importantly, I've never had any of my debit cards that had no foreign currency fee and also reimbursed Thai ATM fees suddenly drop/reverse either of those perks. So at least thus far, the debit cards are working out pretty nicely for me!

Lucky you. But each of those pitfalls has been reported on this forum by at least one victim -- except for the cancellation of ATM reimbursement.

But, heck, carry on, as you've been lucky so far. Out of curiosity -- do you have and ACH avenue to a Bangkok Bank account -- just in case?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Of course... USA to BKKB works nicely...when I have used it.

I always believe in having a range of different financial tools in my toolbox, so I can choose and use the ones that make the most sense for the particular need.

As for the potential pitfalls you listed above, yes, there have been those kinds of reports by individual posters from time to time. But I do think a lot of potential banking problems can be avoided, as I have noted here before, if U.S. expats do two things apart from the normal card and account security measures:

--keep and use their U.S. address for all U.S. banking activities.

--keep and use a U.S. IP address for all their U.S. banking activities.

Following those two expat golden rules will go a long way toward avoiding potential problems.

Edited November 15, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[CaptHaddock]

But, for pure convenience for the US expat, doing an ACH to your Bangkok Bank account, then drawing on it with you secure Be1st smart ATM card, seems to dampen out most inconveniences -- like having your non-EMV US ATM/Debit card cloned; or having it suddenly inactivated for use in Thailand; or reaching your daily ceiling before you've drawn out what you need; or finding out you can't renew it 'cause you now live in Thailand. But, yeah, if you can live with these inconveniences, you'll save a few satang using your completely fee free Schwab card, with ATM fee reimbursement.

Well, in all fairness, in my years of living in Thailand:

--I haven't had one of my magnetic debit cards cloned, and soon, the U.S. banks will be switching to chip and PIN versions anyway.

--I've never had a debit card inactivated for use in Thailand.

--I've never reached my daily ceiling before getting what I need.

--I've never had a card non-renewed because of my residence.

And more importantly, I've never had any of my debit cards that had no foreign currency fee and also reimbursed Thai ATM fees suddenly drop/reverse either of those perks. So at least thus far, the debit cards are working out pretty nicely for me!

Lucky you. But each of those pitfalls has been reported on this forum by at least one victim -- except for the cancellation of ATM reimbursement.

But, heck, carry on, as you've been lucky so far. Out of curiosity -- do you have and ACH avenue to a Bangkok Bank account -- just in case?

Although all those pitfalls have indeed been reported here it would be a mistake to assume that they therefore occur at a high frequency. I don't believe they do occur frequently or we would be reading a much higher volume of complaints about them. Like TallGuy I have had zero problems using my various cards here in Thailand probably because I take the same precautions he does.

[Pib]

Although all those pitfalls have indeed been reported here it would be a mistake to assume that they therefore occur at a high frequency. I don't believe they do occur frequently or we would be reading a much higher volume of complaints about them.

Totally agree. People will post "complaints" in a heartbeat but few will post "everything is going fine, having no problems, etc." And many of the complaints regarding problems with their U.S.-Thailand banking problems is just their not knowing or misunderstanding banking policies and fees (I see this in many posts), lax personal banking security, etc. But I'm not arguing that maintaining a home country address doesn't ease many banking problems, because it definitely does.

And something Americans should consider is "getting bank & credit card accounts which provide no foreign transaction fees products/services and appear to be expat friendly" before, repeat, before they make the move to Thailand. Because after you make that move it can get harder to open new accounts especially if you don't have a home country address you can use.

I have also sensed that some people could change to less fee-hungry banks and credit card accounts but feel it would be too hard, they don't want to change from a bank they have been with forever and worked just fine when living only in the U.S. and only doing domestic transactions, or they are afraid they will be disapproved.

I know when I arrived Thailand I thought I was setup pretty good banking-wise but I got tied of paying even low cost ACH fees since I didn't want to send to or keep large amounts of money in Thailand. So I would just send enough to get by for say two months or so. And all of my credit/debit cards I had charged a foreign transaction fee which was never a problem when living in the U.S. so I just wouldn't use them in Thailand. But at least for me, I didn't like paying those frequent ACH fees (even if low cost) and as mentioned was not about to pay card foreign transaction fees. Then over about a 4 month period I decided I was going to open new bank and credit card accounts which would lower my ACH fees a little more, provide me with no foreign transaction fee debit and credit cards, and appear to be more expat-friendly. All account openings were approved, got the new accounts setup like I wanted, transferred some money around to fund the new bank accounts, and then I was good to go--it wasn't hard...it just took some effort and a little time...and I still kept most of my old accounts.

In closing, a great way to reduce a person's need to transfer money to Thailand is to get a no foreign transaction fee "credit card." I have several such cards and use them all the time and whenever I can here in Thailand...pay them off in full each month....never had any problems...greatly reduced my need to get money transferred over/pulled out of an ATM. And I even earn cash-back on every purchase...heck, I lose money by paying in cash versus using my credit cards. Use of the credit cards also helps to maintain my U.S. credit rating.

Preaching to the choir I know, but hopefully others who read recommendations in this thread will implement some of them, preferably before they move to Thailand...don't make the same mistakes I did. And the recommendations will change over time because banks/cards change their policies & fees, both in the U.S. and Thailand. When the banksters make a move, you need to make a counter move.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Pib

[JimGant]

John, I've always conceded that you can't beat a fee free ATM card that also reimburses the ATM owner's fee. At least for getting your walking around money. I know Schwab is at the head of the line for such cards (and which I have).

But what are the others? I'm sure buried in the previous 24 pages can be found the answers. But please spare me the time -- what are the other ATM/Debit cards that trump going the ACH route?

As Pib says, using the fee free credit cards, which also give cash back (like Capital One Quicksilver), is a smart way to do most of your shopping here. And fortunately, there are many varieties of such cards, at least issued by US financial institutions. It's the fee free ATM/Debit cards that seem to be in short supply.

And without one of these cards, the ACH route is cheaper, not to mention more convenient and (for now) secure.

Anyway, we've beaten this subject to death over the years. Just need a list of "those" special cards. Thanx.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

John, I've always conceded that you can't beat a fee free ATM card that also reimburses the ATM owner's fee. At least for getting your walking around money. I know Schwab is at the head of the line for such cards (and which I have).

But what are the others? I'm sure buried in the previous 24 pages can be found the answers. But please spare me the time -- what are the other ATM/Debit cards that trump going the ACH route?

.......

Anyway, we've beaten this subject to death over the years. Just need a list of "those" special cards. Thanx.

Jim, it looks like the last time I updated my list of U.S. debit cards with no FCF and reimbursing other banks' ATM fees was over a year ago...

Posted the recap in the following thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/654140-best-no-fee-low-fee-bank-cards-for-americans-2013/?p=6696904

Some things have changed since then, such as the reference at the bottom of that post to AEON ATMs (which now charge the Thai ATM withdrawal fee). But I suspect most of the U.S. debit card info is still pretty much on target.

PS - If anyone is aware of any changes to the debit cards listed in the abovementioned post, please do let me know and/post an update here, so I can reflect any changes.

Edited November 19, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

Thanks, John.

[Pib]

Speaking of credit cards that have no foreign currency fee and no cash advance fee for bank counter withdrawals....

Pentagon Federal Credit Union -- one of the largest credit unions in the U.S. that also has its membership open to the general public -- has just launched a new credit card with both of those features AND a 1.5% cash back feature on all purchases.

It's called the PenFed Defender Visa Signature card, but there is one catch. Unlike PFCU membership and PFCU's other credit cards, this new credit card is ONLY available to active military members (including the National Guard and the Reserves) or those honorably discharged from the military, according to PFCU's web site. Apart from that limitation, it looks like quite a good offering, with a good 8.9% APR rate as well.

The details are here on the PFCU website:

https://penfed.org/visadefender/

And here's the terms document with all the additional details:

PFCU Defender-Visa Terms.pdf

TallGuy,

Well, my Defender card is in the mail. This week I called PFCU regarding a question I had about my other PFCU credit card (just an issue regarding something being reflected on my PFCU ibanking), got that question quickly answered, and then the PFCU rep asked if I was interesting in switching my current card to the Defender card or just get the Defender card also.

I said I wanted to keep my other card since it gave 5% cash back on pay-at-the-pump fuel purchases which I will also hopefully get to start using regularly in Thailand some day (i.e., self service and slide your card into the pump to pay). The rep then starting pointing the good stuff about the Defender card like 1.5% cash back on any purchase, no foreign transaction fee, no cash advance fee, etc....basically all the "no fees" like my other PFCU has. So, I thought to myself I already have a couple of CapOne credit cards that I use all the time and they pay 1.5% cash back, but having another 1.5% cash back card from another company would serve as a backup in case CapOne every changes some of their policies/fees...plus, I may decide to just start using the PFCU Defender card regularly.

Additonally, I thought since I've been using my current PFCU credit card to do counter withdrawals up to $2,000 per day with absolutely no fees if I had a another PFCU credit card I could just flip both of them out during a counter withdrawal, get $4,000 (approx Bt130K) fee-free (Thai bank end and PFCU end), and cut my counter withdrawal trips to the bank in half...only do it every 2 or 3 months or so. And I know this will impress 55Jay. Cash advance counter withdrawal limit per day is $2,000 or if via ATM $1,000 per day when using a PFCU credit card.

Anyway, I applied over the phone for the Defender while talking to the rep, the rep only asked me about my current income level, confirmed my current address (I use my APO mailing address here in Thailand), took a little info on my wife since I wanted a supplemental card for her also, the rep ran the online credit check which took about 15 seconds and resulted in approval of the Defender card.....then the rep said there is one more step to finalize the process which is asking me 3 questions to confirm my identity. These three questions were all from public data records like which of the following addresses have you lived at before, etc....challenge questions that some banks like St Farm Bank use occasionally when logging onto their ibanking system. Passed the questions....the card info is now reflecting on my PFCU ibanking, cards in the mail. Too easy.

PFCU has both a Visa and American Express Defender credit card....I took the Visa card. A few hours later I thought to myself maybe I should have gotten the AmEx version since it had all the same benefits and fee structure as that would have allowed me to do a cash advance up to $1,000 per day at a Bangkok Bank ATM and get charged only a local ATM fee of Bt50 (fifty) vs the typical Bt150-180 foreign card fee for Visa/Matercard. But i rationalized that away by telling myself I still have a couple of no foreign transaction fee debit cards that reimburse those fees...plus, AmEx is not as widely accepted in Thailand as Visa/Mastercard. And I no longer have a concern about the American Express exchange rate since a recent thread on the American Express Bluebird card flushed that out for me...appears the AmEx "card" exchange rate is basically equal to or possibly a little better than Visa's rate...and Visa's rate is usually a hair better than Matercard's. Note: AmEx card exchange rate not to be confused with their exchange rate for their other currency products/services which is several percent lower.

Anyway, I got the Defender card although I was not planning to when making my call to PFCU.

[ThaiBob]

Being lazy and not wanting to read all these thread pages, what exchange rate will I get when using my Charles Schwab atm card today? I use this link that gets me close but not exactly the rate. I have asked Schwab but their rep couldn't help. Does Schwab charge some undisclosed fee(isa fee?)?

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp

Edited December 9, 2014 by ThaiBob

[Langsuan Man]

Being lazy and not wanting to read all these thread pages, what exchange rate will I get when using my Charles Schwab atm card today? I use this link that gets me close but not exactly the rate. I have asked Schwab but their rep couldn't help. Does Schwab charge some undisclosed fee(isa fee?)?

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp

The reason Schwab can't tell you because they can't look into a crystal ball and know exactly when you use or will use your card, just like you can input your information into the "calculator" you listed above, but it will only give you an pretty close estimate because it doesn't know exactly what the rate will be when you make the transaction. It has nothing to do with any "hidden" fees but has to do with the fluctuation in exchange rates

Just look at any of the Thai bank exchange rate pages and you will see that the exchange rate can change by a few satangs up or down throughout the day

The only way to determine exactly what rate you are going to get at any given time is to do it using Dynamic Conversion, which will give you the exact rate while you are doing the transaction but at a very high cost since the exchange takes place using the on shore rate, not the better, off shore rate

The only sure way is after the transaction has been made and you check your home bank after the debit has been "posted" to your account, not in process, but when only when posted

[JimGant]

I use this link that gets me close but not exactly the rate. I have asked Schwab but their rep couldn't help. Does Schwab charge some undisclosed fee(isa fee?)?

You should get the rate advertised on the Visa link that you reference -- exactly to the third decimal point (my experience with the Schwab card, and several other Visa ATM cards). And there's only one rate per day -- it doesn't fluctuate. Just when the new rate takes effect is questionable -- it used to be midnight New York time (12 noon Thailand, EST), and maybe still is. However, the Visa site you mention had already switched to the 12/9/2014 rate as of at least 10:30AM, Thai time, so maybe that's now when the crossover occurs..... Dunno. Anyway, if at noon today you swiped your Schwab Visa Debit/ATM card, you'd get the advertised 32.973 Visa rate. Don't forget to add the ATM fee (150/180) to the baht amount requested before you divide by the dollar cost -- or you'll not arrive at the 32.973 FX rate. Or, if you're looking at a previous day's swipe, and it was before noon Thai time, check the previous day's Visa rate -- if your math figures aren't what you'd expect.

Schwab's ATM reimbursement occurs at the end of the month, at least for me. And, they use that day's Visa FX rate, not the date of the ATM transaction. So if you're a purest on FX rates, remember there are two Visa rates involved for Schwab ATM transactions -- at least those that don't occur on the last day of the month.

[Pib]

Being lazy and not wanting to read all these thread pages, what exchange rate will I get when using my Charles Schwab atm card today? I use this link that gets me close but not exactly the rate. I have asked Schwab but their rep couldn't help. Does Schwab charge some undisclosed fee(isa fee?)?

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-benefits/travel/exchange-rate-calculator.jsp

That's the correct link to use for lazy or not lazy folks. The rate changes every 24 hours at midnight eastern time which is 12 or 13 hours behind Thai depending on whether daylight savings time is in effect..right now daylight savings time is not in effect so Visa updates its rate at high noon Thailand time. The charge hitting your Schwab account will match the Visa exchange rate to the third or fourth decimal point. Schwab does not charge a foreign transaction fee. A Schwab rep wouldn't know what the next Visa rate is going to be because I expect Visa don't make that decision until the last minute based on Forex markets. Schwab reimburses ATM fees at the end of the month.

When using your card in an ATM if it asks do you want to accomplish a DCC transaction or whatever warm & fuzzy sounding name they may give it like Bank Rate, Home Rate, etc., say no and continue on to get the Visa rate...the ATM's DCC rate will be several percent lower than the Visa/Mastercard/AmEx rate.

[ThaiBob]

Thank you gentlemen, I used the linked calculator and got the same rate this afternoon (two the third decimal point) at two different ATM's, BB charged 150 baht and K-Bank charged 180 baht.

[Pib]

So, that means you got a Bt32.97/USD rate from Visa which today beats the TT Buying Rate used for in coming wire transfers of all Thai banks which ranged from 32.81 to 32.78 today....and you got that better rate with absolutely zero fees since Schwab will reimburse your local ATM fees at the end of the month (just don't overdue it and help kill the Golden Reimbursement Goose) and you got the money immediately in-hand...no waiting for a wire transfer to arrive. It's a great way to get money, but a person needs a backup method in case the card get lost, damaged, stolen, just stops working for some reason. Preaching to the choir I know.

[ThaiBob]

So, that means you got a Bt32.97/USD rate from Visa which today beats the TT Buying Rate used for in coming wire transfers of all Thai banks which ranged from 32.81 to 32.78 today....and you got that better rate with absolutely zero fees since Schwab will reimburse your local ATM fees at the end of the month (just don't overdue it and help kill the Golden Reimbursement Goose) and you got the money immediately in-hand...no waiting for a wire transfer to arrive. It's a great way to get money, but a person needs a backup method in case the card get lost, damaged, stolen, just stops working for some reason. Preaching to the choir I know.

I alternate between my 2 Schwab ATM's and a credit union atm, and I also occasionally use ACH transfers to BB via NYC.