Farang Couple Starting A Family In Thailand

[IrishP]

Hi All,

My fiancée and I are thinking about the possibility of having our baby in Thailand and we would love some advice from anyone who has been in the same situation. She is Swiss and I am Irish and we are due to become parents for the first time in November. We both have experience working and living in Thailand but we had to leave a couple of years ago due to visa/money issues. Now we may have an opportunity that can offer us work permits, jobs and a solid, legal income and we are trying to decide if going back to Thailand is the best for our new arrival.

As you all may know - living and working in Thailand has it's ups and downs! We have both been living our lives for ourselves up until now, but we now have to consider the future of our child when she arrives.

Although the lifestyle in Thailand is much more appealing than Europe, we are concerned that she might not have as many life opportunities as she might if we were living in, say, Switzerland. When I say life opportunities, I mean in terms of jobs, etc. I know that it might be a little premature to think about this now, but we are looking ahead to the future and would like to be as informed as we can before making another major decision and another big move.

Has anyone been through the same situation, and if so, any advice?

Many thanks!

[LivinginKata]

First of all congratulations.

I have not been in your situation, but I would say that you should take into consideration whether you will have available good private health insurance to cover your wife and new baby.

Also you should consider the costs & availability of an international education standard.

If point one is covered then you will have many years to decide on point 2.

Best of luck.

[afarang]

First of all congratulations.

I have not been in your situation, but I would say that you should take into consideration whether you will have available good private health insurance to cover your wife and new baby.

Also you should consider the costs & availability of an international education standard.

If point one is covered then you will have many years to decide on point 2.

Best of luck.

I have. No need for health insurance, my son and daughter were well taken care of through the Govt. health service including vaccinations.Your child, if born here will be entitled to Thai citizenship, will be entitled to at least dual ,maybe triple. So, no problems with health. Yes ,the Thai education system is ratshit. My children are now studying in Aust. as guests of the Govt. I am an old age pensioner ,so there secondary education is basically free. Not so tertiary .sadly. I use the Govt. hospitals ,never had private insurance, am still alive fast approaching 72

[rgs2001uk]

I have. No need for health insurance, my son and daughter were well taken care of through the Govt. health service including vaccinations.Your child, if born here will be entitled to Thai citizenship, will be entitled to at least dual ,maybe triple. So, no problems with health. Yes ,the Thai education system is ratshit. My children are now studying in Aust. as guests of the Govt. I am an old age pensioner ,so there secondary education is basically free. Not so tertiary .sadly. I use the Govt. hospitals ,never had private insurance, am still alive fast approaching 72

Is this really correct? "Your child, if born here will be entitled to Thai citizenship"

Both parents are farang.

Life opportunities, who is going to look after the child while you both are working?

Will you be able to afford the costs for a decent international school?

Is there a decent school where you will be living in Thailand?

Can you afford medical insurance fees?

Personally I would forget Thailand and think of the impending arrival.

[klongmuang]

Since this is posted in the Krabi forum, I have to caution you, Krabi has not yet any reputable international school, good education systems and decent hospitals. These are very important points to consider, especially if you come here with a new born. Don't worry if you both like to work. Lovely nannies are easy available in Thailand and inexpensive. Make sure you have a solid income above Thai common standards to support your living. I have experienced many farangs ending up in misery, as their fianances did not give them sufficient allowances.

[IrishP]

Thanks all for your advice and input! We are definitely not going to make the move unless we have solid, legal means to stay - so we are thinking long and hard about this. My fiancée and I have been through the mill for 3 years working on the dive boats from Ao Nang which is basically hand to mouth. Fine for a while but not something we could not and would not want to do forever - more so now we have a little one on the way...

Our time in Thailand has taught us the hardships of living and working there, and we are looking into things like health insurance and schools, etc now.

afarang, I think you are mistaken about our child having Thai citizenship - if we are both foreigners this will not be the case - unfortunately!

klongmuang - you make good points indeed about the lack of decent hospitals and schools in the area. We would most likely be coming back to the Krabi-Ao Nang area - possibly even Phuket if the amenities are better there....(if anyone has any thoughts or opinions on this by the way...?)We will not make the trip unless we are dead sure we have a decent salary to support us - we have learned that ourselves the hard way!

rgs2001uk - At the moment we are living in South Africa and are finding it nigh on impossible to get work - it seems even harder than in Thailand and there is a lot more cash going out than in. We have no job, are renting a house and are living on the money we have saved up until now. We obviously have to do something about this and soon - and our choices are looking to be between this opportunity in Krabi or returning to Europe - most likely Switzerland - to look for something there. We are planning on having the baby here in SA as the medical facilities are first rate, and perhaps staying here for a few months afterwards to see if things pick up. But as we stay here we realise more and more that SA is not the place for us long term, hence the feelers out to other places.Both Switzerland and Thailand have their pros and cons when it comes to the child and ourselves as a family. Although at the moment we have no job in Switzerland either, and if we did, we would have to pay for health insurance, taxes, rent, etc. there as well which would work out a lot more expensive than Thailand. Education would be free in Switzerland, granted that is true. It looks like we will have to use the one private school we know there is in Ao Nang (we know a few people who send their kids there) which will see her until she is around 10-12 years old.

[SteeleJoe]

Thanks all for your advice and input! We are definitely not going to make the move unless we have solid, legal means to stay - so we are thinking long and hard about this. My fiancée and I have been through the mill for 3 years working on the dive boats from Ao Nang which is basically hand to mouth. Fine for a while but not something we could not and would not want to do forever - more so now we have a little one on the way...

Our time in Thailand has taught us the hardships of living and working there, and we are looking into things like health insurance and schools, etc now.

afarang, I think you are mistaken about our child having Thai citizenship - if we are both foreigners this will not be the case - unfortunately!

klongmuang - you make good points indeed about the lack of decent hospitals and schools in the area. We would most likely be coming back to the Krabi-Ao Nang area - possibly even Phuket if the amenities are better there....(if anyone has any thoughts or opinions on this by the way...?)We will not make the trip unless we are dead sure we have a decent salary to support us - we have learned that ourselves the hard way!

rgs2001uk - At the moment we are living in South Africa and are finding it nigh on impossible to get work - it seems even harder than in Thailand and there is a lot more cash going out than in. We have no job, are renting a house and are living on the money we have saved up until now. We obviously have to do something about this and soon - and our choices are looking to be between this opportunity in Krabi or returning to Europe - most likely Switzerland - to look for something there. We are planning on having the baby here in SA as the medical facilities are first rate, and perhaps staying here for a few months afterwards to see if things pick up. But as we stay here we realise more and more that SA is not the place for us long term, hence the feelers out to other places.Both Switzerland and Thailand have their pros and cons when it comes to the child and ourselves as a family. Although at the moment we have no job in Switzerland either, and if we did, we would have to pay for health insurance, taxes, rent, etc. there as well which would work out a lot more expensive than Thailand. Education would be free in Switzerland, granted that is true. It looks like we will have to use the one private school we know there is in Ao Nang (we know a few people who send their kids there) which will see her until she is around 10-12 years old.

Normally I'd not opine on someone's personal choices in something so important but you have asked and I feel wrong in not saying this as I feel your decision-making may be naive or short-sighted:

I have chosen to live in Thailand and raise my 2 children here. But given the circumstances you describe, there's no way I'd choose to raise a family here if I were you. In fact, I think it would be a selfish choice to make.

There's simply no way you'll be able to afford an education anything even remotely close to the quality you can get in Switzerland -- and the education your child will get will not only be inadequate but even to an extent detrimental. Sure a child can thrive in spite of this -- and many do - but surely a parent's responsibility (and primary desire?) is to see that their child is provided with as many advantages as possible - not disadvantages from the outset.

And I question your ability to attain a life of stability and security here. Without that you have to worry not only about school but about good medical care (it is available in Thailand -- first rate -- but it's not necessarily cheap) and maybe even just putting food on the table.

Could you and your child be happy here? I've no doubt. But I simply think the minuses could so easily outweigh the pluses (of which there would admittedly, potentially be some for you and child) and very likely would.

[LivinginKata]

You must consider that there is zero safety net for a foreigner in Thailand. If you have no money then you are in a big mess (health, lifestyle, & immigration). I think you already know this as you say you have tried to live here in Thailand before.

That must be your biggest consideration. At least in Europe you would have some form of a safety net. Thailand has much to offer, but only for those with the financial means.

[klongmuang]

For me the story starts to become unbelievable and I have big doubts about IrishP's capability to raise a family as a responsible minded person. You're living in South Africa with nothing. You plan to come to Thailand with ?? Nothing ! You worked at dive centres in Ao Nang and experienced the hardship to make a living. It didn't become better, no it became worse. Renowned diver centres in Ao Nang have closed down due to profitability and the remaining centres employ farang staff on free lance basis only. Many long term dive staff you probably know have left Ao Nang to get back into real life. What else you wanna do here, unless you have sufficient funds to invest into a business or venture ? Forget about the one international school in Krabi, which is scrap ! Wake up from you dream and start a real life.

South Africa is inexpensive and to some extend even cheaper than Thailand. You cannot make a living in SA, how you wanna do it in Thailand ?

[IrishP]

klongmuang, as much as I appreciate people like yourselves taking the time to reply to posts on forums like this, you do not know me and I would appreciate you keeping comments such as my ability to raise a family to yourself.

It would save us all a lot of time if you would bother to read what I said before making your snide comments.

Like I stated right at the beginning - we have an opportunity to have our own business that will offer us work permits, visas and a steady, legal income.

I am well aware of the hardships of working as a freelancer on the dive boats in Ao Nang because, like I said, again, we both worked for 3 years doing just that and we moved away because of it. We worked at the dive centers that closed. We know the owners, we know the people who worked there and moved away. We...were...there...

You are preaching to the converted - we are WELL aware of this and we are in no way going to move back there "with nothing", as you say. To the contrary, we are only considering this move as we have an offer of employment.

South Africa is not cheaper than Thailand. We have lived in Thailand. We are living in South Africa. We do not need to be told this.......

As for "waking up from my dream and starting a real life", what would you suggest? Heading back to Europe which has even higher rents, taxes, rates and crime with no business opportunity? Sounds just peachy to me - if that's your idea of "real life" then you are welcome to it.

The financial side os not even the main issue here - I am trying to get advice from people who have raised children in Thailand on the pros and cons on doing so.

It seems that you have made your position clear on the subject, so unless you have anything constructive to say with regards to child rearing in Thailand, I suggest you read what I say first before making comments on my ability as a father.

[SteeleJoe]

IrishP: Did you read the post from me or -- even better -- LivinginKata? Not bothered if you don't respond but I do hope you read them.

I don't expect you to take a stranger's advice but please trust me on one of the relatively few things I can say about Thailand, even after 25+ years here, with certainty: virtually nothing is certain here. Offer of employment? I can't tell you how many times I and people I know have had things fall apart through no fault of our own but just because circumstances changed (ie people didn't live up to promises or changed their conditions or whatever).

I've been in this country as a young man with little or no money. It was never all that hard to find work but it was not all that easy to achieve any sort of real security or stability. Thank heavens I didn't have a kid to worry about before I had done so. For me there is absolutely NOTHING -- including my own life -- that matters more to me than ensuring that my children have the best life I can possibly provide them.

LivinginKata said it well and to the point:

You must consider that there is zero safety net for a foreigner in Thailand. If you have no money then you are in a big mess (health, lifestyle, & immigration)...That must be your biggest consideration. At least in Europe you would have some form of a safety net. Thailand has much to offer, but only for those with the financial means.

I couldn't agree more.

[LivinginKata]

LivinginKata said it well and to the point:

You must consider that there is zero safety net for a foreigner in Thailand. If you have no money then you are in a big mess (health, lifestyle, & immigration)...That must be your biggest consideration. At least in Europe you would have some form of a safety net. Thailand has much to offer, but only for those with the financial means.

I couldn't agree more.

I would expect that IrishP already knows that as he has lived in Thailand before. I made that post for any other casual readers who might have been mislead by another poster implying that education and health care are government supplied. This is only the case for Thai nationals and such gov services are very limited.

[IrishP]

Thanks for your comments LivinginKata and SteeleJoe, I do appreciate you pointing out the risks involved in a move to Thailand, and I am well aware of them.

I am more looking to get some information and advice on the trials, tribulations and benefits of raising children there - non Thai children at that. I'm not asking to be shot down in flames or denounced as a selfish father-to-be just yet. Putting the financial aspects to one side for a while, has anyone any experience on this?

Many thanks all...

[LivinginKata]

Ok, at the risk of being shot down by others who have raised kids in Thailand, I read (in forums such as this one) that parents (non Thai nationals) are quite content to have very young kids living here in Thailand, but once these kids get past first school age then it time to take them back home for a more serious education that would set them up for adult life's challenges.

[beano2274]

Do you have the money to invest in a business? You clearly state you have nothing in SA. Also you say your partner, so not married yet, so means Visas for both of you no piggy backing. Who will be the major investor (51% Thai). If you were home in Ireland you would get Child Benefit, no chance of that here. Education here is another thing, it is not that good as you well know.

[hagler]

Gawd almighty you are having difficulty making a decision on your child growing up in a country 99.999% of the worlds population would be delighted to raise a family in as opposed to a country where 95% of western non nationals go to live for retirement or because they want to "skive off".

I bet you wouldn't be living in South Africa after after having had a wondrous relaxing time working on the dive boats if you had been brought up in Thailand.

At least give your kid a fighting chance at a prosperous future and bring it up in China if you must live outside of your home country.

edit. I mean Switzerland not Ireland which is the economic Bangladesh of the future unfortunately.

[rgs2001uk]

The OP should head on over to the Family & Children forum for an insight into the costs of schooling children here.

Wont even bother recounting the tales of woe from people who have long since departed these shores, we are all aware of the many for whom the living the dream mantra turned out to be escaping a nightmare at best.

I have a Thai friend who owns a hotel in Krabi, he is only open for the high season 5 months of the year, he said last year was terrible and he may not bother to open up this year, that alone tells me all I need to know.

Another farang I know has recently departed from Krabi, he tried for 5 years to make a go of it and couldnt, the numbers just didnt add up, hope its not this business the OP intends buying.

The only ones I know who make a go of it are the ones doing it for the love of diving, to them its a hobby, these people already have pensions etc in place and arent doing it to try and scrape a living from it.

Would be interested to know what the real profession of the Op and his partner are, may well be better oportunities in their career field in Thailand which would allow them to live and work here, and dive as a hobby.

[IrishP]

LivinginKata - This is what I have started to notice as well - that some parents are raising their kids in Thailand up until just before high school age before taking them "back home" for a better quality education. This seems a good idea and one we are definitely not adverse to. We are not planning for the next 25-30 years here - we will have 4 years before she is old enough to go to school and another 5-6 years at primary school. We are of the opinion that these years could offer her an invaluable experience in growing up in a different culture, with the language and interpersonal skills that can come with it.

Perhaps the early years in Thailand coupled with a secondary education in Switzerland could be a good combination....

hagler - thanks for joining the discussion and I appreciate your input. (Economic Bangladesh a bit strong for my Irish blood though...!)I know, there are loads of people saying we're daft to even consider Thailand over Switzerland. But the fact of the matter is although Switzerland does have first class education, health, etc., we have no job prospects there at the moment. I say at the moment as we are actively looking for work there and if we do manage to secure something, we will be delighted. Not saying we would dive in, but we would be very happy to have the opportunity to consider. Switzerland is extremely expensive and even though my partner is Swiss (we are getting married next month by the way...) she and I would both still have to pay quite a lot every month for the state health insurance (which in mandatory to all Swiss nationals) as well as the rents, rates and taxes that apply.

beano2274 - yes, we do have money to invest in a business. The business is not in restaurant, bar or diving areas but in media and publishing. We are treating it extremely seriously and will not be making any moves unless the numbers add up to our liking. If they do, you are right when you say it could be a great opportunity to do something in our careers that will offer us a decent way of life instead of scraping by. And diving as a hobby is much more enjoyable than doing it for a living!

We have no such opportunity here in South Africa as it is an absolute nightmare to get any kind of employment as we are white non-residents. It's the way of the country and we are coming to accept that now. We have been trying for months to get any sort of job but are knocked back every time because of it.

Never thought I'd say it but in this case it looks like it could be easier for us to get legal, paying work and visas in Thailand then here!

[grumpyoldman]

IrishP, it's obvious to me you can write, and like to write.

Get yourself a PayPal account and hit up some computer job offer sites for copywriting positions. Even the jobs offered board here on TV's site often has copy writing jobs offered.

You are in an even more advantageous position if you can write in multiple languages.

Good luck to you and don't let negativeity get you down, it's just people warning you to be cautious with the new one. Cheers, GOM

[IrishP]

Thanks GOM! Funny you should say that as that is exactly what I do - write articles and content for the web and magazines! Thanks also for the tip on looking at the jobs board here for that kind of work. Working online with a PayPal account does offer a good amount of freedom and can be done anywhere in the world, which is great.

Thanks again for your support and thankfully I'm getting more encouraging comments now than the contrary. I realise that most people are just warning me about the risks involved and it's good to hear both sides of the discussion.

Cheers

[grumpyoldman]

Thanks GOM! Funny you should say that as that is exactly what I do - write articles and content for the web and magazines! Thanks also for the tip on looking at the jobs board here for that kind of work. Working online with a PayPal account does offer a good amount of freedom and can be done anywhere in the world, which is great.

Thanks again for your support and thankfully I'm getting more encouraging comments now than the contrary. I realise that most people are just warning me about the risks involved and it's good to hear both sides of the discussion.

Cheers

Best of luck my friend. GOM

[simon43]

The business is not in restaurant, bar or diving areas but in media and publishing

The OP is well advised to carefully check the relevant business laws, since there are restrictions on non-Thais owning media/publishing businesses in Thailand - not 100% forbidden but you need to check carefully before you fully commit yourselves

Simon

PS - I would not believe any job offer until you are actually working and have received your first salary cheque