Getting A Degree In Thailand

[Berkshire]

These threads are always the same... a bunch of folks talking about how bad Thai Universities are... but coming from personal experience, I disagree...

I graduated from University here in Thailand, in fact I transferred from a US University and did not find that the level of education was lower in any way.

In fa, the Thai University I went to was ranked higher than the US University I was going to (in the world rankings) and the US University I went to, was considered one of the top universities in the state and had many companies recruiting graduating students every year.

I was originally planning on going back to the US after graduating and did not anticipate any problem with getting hired, but I guess we will never know, as I was offered a job at a Thai Company and have been here ever since.

No I am not teaching English, and I do not have any complaints about the salary... I am living just as good a lifestyle (if not better) than I would have anticipated if I had graduated and worked in the US.

Take it from some one who has actually taken the path you are talking about, Thai Universities are nowhere near as bad as many are claiming... In fact, some are actually quite good.

An individual on TV actually speaking from experience. Bravo to you and congrats. Your comments carry much more weight than some of these other schmucks who are just clearly spewing hate and discontent.

[SomTumTiger]

TV farangs tend to overlook it, because it's so "Far away" lol. But the top ranked uni in Thailand is Mahidol, and their International College is very good quality. (And the chicks are smokin' hot too).

[SteeleJoe]

... the Thai University I went to was ranked higher than the US University I was going to (in the world rankings) and the US University I went to, was considered one of the top universities in the state and had many companies recruiting graduating students every year.

I'd be very interested to know the respective universities and to see a source for those rankings. Sincere request.

[SteeleJoe]

... the top ranked uni in Thailand is Mahidol...

"Top Ranked"? What does that mean? According to whom or what?

[MrBrad]

If you have not yet earned your Bachelor Degree, another thought might be to study here in Thailand as an exchange student through a participating university in the US. I did that in the mid-90s through the University of Wisconsin. Credits earned here were applied to my transcript in the US. Doing this allowed me to spend one year studying here and learning about Thailand at the same time.

[FWIW]

I personally know more than 100 Thais who have either done a PhD abroad (starting from either a BSc degree or a MSc degree), or have competitively obtained post-Doctoral positions at overseas Universities. Off the top of my head I can think of Thais who have gone to Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Dundee, Harvard, Duke, Mayo and Yale as well as top Institutes in France and Germany.

Degrees from Thailand (BSc, MSc or Phd) are accepted with no problems in the best Institutes in the world, and the Thais who get those positions normally do very well.

For OP, a degree at Mahidol, Chula or the like will give you plenty of oportunitunities world wide.

[fairmatechemical]

Thanks for your information,

Its really very informative.....

[CWMcMurray]

... the Thai University I went to was ranked higher than the US University I was going to (in the world rankings) and the US University I went to, was considered one of the top universities in the state and had many companies recruiting graduating students every year.

I'd be very interested to know the respective universities and to see a source for those rankings. Sincere request.

Mahidol University - World Ranking 228

University at Buffalo - World Ranking 393

Also just as an fyi... Chula was ranked 180

Another Poster mentioned Western Michigan, which I am sure is a very good University, but it did not make the top 500

Western Michigan - Not in the Top 500 - Ranking N/A

Total number of Colleges & Universities in USA: 4084

The point being, there are 4,084 Universities in the USA alone, so the majority of Universities in the USA are not even in the Top 500 World Wide Rankings, let alone the Top 200.... so I would argue that it is not such a clear cut case that a degree from USA is automatically better than a degree from Thailand.

Another Fun Fact .... Total Universities in the World

According to International Journal of Scientometrics, infometrics and bibliometrics, total number of universities in the world are counted to 17,036.

So to be in the Top 500 is no mean feat...

Edited July 29, 2011 by CWMcMurray

[SteeleJoe]

... the Thai University I went to was ranked higher than the US University I was going to (in the world rankings) and the US University I went to, was considered one of the top universities in the state and had many companies recruiting graduating students every year.

I'd be very interested to know the respective universities and to see a source for those rankings. Sincere request.

Mahidol University - World Ranking 228

University at Buffalo - World Ranking 393

Also just as an fyi... Chula was ranked 180

Thank you. And I'm aware of Chula's ranking. (I'm also aware that QS is probably the best source available but is not necessarily the whole picture)

I don' t think for a second that a US university is automatically among the very best or always going to be better than any Thai university. Not by any means.

I just think you saying that 'Mahidol is ranked higher than University at Buffalo' (which frankly I've never heard of) would have been a bit more useful (if perhaps a bit less impressive!) -- that wouldn't have surprised me at all.

[keemapoot]

Honestly speaking, if you are considering an advanced degree, as mentioned earlier in this thread, you could go to any of the major Unis in Thailand that offer English programs and get your undergraduate degree. Then, assuming you score well in your GRE, LSAT, or whatever, you would not be held back by a Thai undergraduate degree. And, in fact, you may be considered to be of greater value because of your international experience and possible language experience.

If you are only looking at the undergraduate degree, that is still not so bad. Having had the guts to go abroad for your degree and gain the international experience may bode you well in many quarters, especially in International Affairs, with NGOs., UN, etc.., which you indicated was your interest.

BTW, I teach at one of the major Unis in an international program.

Edited July 29, 2011 by keemapoot

[CWMcMurray]

Thank you. And I'm aware of Chula's ranking. (I'm also aware that QS is probably the best source available but is not necessarily the whole picture)

I don' t think for a second that a US university is automatically among the very best or always going to be better than any Thai university. Not by any means.

I just think you saying that 'Mahidol is ranked higher than University at Buffalo' (which frankly I've never heard of) would have been a bit more useful (if perhaps a bit less impressive!) -- that wouldn't have surprised me at all.

Well UB is a good school, ranked 393 in the World, but I am sure they will get over the fact that you have never heard of them...

Edited July 29, 2011 by CWMcMurray

[SteeleJoe]

Well UB is a good school, ranked 393 in the World, but I am sure they will get over the fact that you have never heard of them...

I don't see why they wouldn't. I'm no expert and I what I know about them (or don't) certainly doesn't matter -- nor should it to you, though apparently it does...

I'm afraid your sarcasm is wasted.

[Niranut]

As some have already stated, where, what, and why you study will all play a role.

I have an MA in Southeast Asian Studies from Chulalongkorn (an international program). In my own experience, the international programs in Asian, Southeast Asian, and Thai studies at Chula & Thammasat are good programs and offer the unique experience of studying about Asia in Aisa from other Asians. And as international programs, they offer "alternative" views which give different perspectives of history and culture and such. So I found that in addition to receiving a good foundation in traditional views and narratives of Southeast Asia, they also provided well-rounded exposure to other perspectives. In addition, there were also several visiting scholars from around the world, who were the who's who of Asia Studies, who gave lectures and forums while I was there.

The downside in my experience was with communication and grading standards. I have heard from students who have graduated in more recent years (I graduated in 2005), that they have made good progress in addressing some of this, but I'll share just for your information. Examples that come to mind now are things like not notifying everyone when classes were cancelled or rescheduled-- so it was kind of annoying to show up for class in the morning only to find that it had been cancelled or postponed or whatever. Another issue I had was with the "Independent Study" classes, where you work one on one with your thesis advisor or another professor on a topic that is of particular interest to you. There were huge discrepancies among different professors as to how much was expected of students. Some students would read a few chapters during the week and get together with their prof. once a week to discuss it; I had to read almost 50 books, write hundreds of pages in papers, and saw my professor once... It was very independent, since I did most of it myself! But I digress. The last big issue I had was with graduation-- I almost didn't get to walk up and get my degree from HRH. Luckily I found out just in time that I had to go to this itty bitty shop by the river to get my gown, and since it was last minute I had to buy the thing as all the rentals were gone. My husband thinks it's great though, cause I can wear my Chula gown in official family photos now And then I was told that I needed to go to one of two rehearsals, when in fact I had to go to both-- after meeting with the dean, the international office, and a handful of other officials, and showing them that I was able to curtsey at the right time and go through the motions correctly, I was allowed to walk down the aisle.

Regarding cheating, while it is rampant here (and elsewhere), it was not tolerated in my program. One student was expelled during the two years I was there for extensive plagiarism (she copied her entire paper, word for word, from the internet), and a couple others were giving failing grades for plagiarism and cheating (not sure of the details of their offenses, but I do know they got F's).

So yeah, it can certainly be useful if you have some goals and objectives in mind beforehand. And also if you know what to expect as far as administration at your university and such.

[Arkady]

Before considering how a foreign employer would view a Thai degree, you should consider how Thai employers view them. Most large Thai companies have different pay scales for overseas graduates compared to local graduates. This is probably for a good reason, as they know the standards in their own universities, not to mention the endemic cheating and corruption in them. Also bear in mind that the Education Ministry accepts Btitish GSCEs, normally taken at 15 or 16 as equivalent to Thai Mor 6. Therefore a Thai student from the UK can easily enter a Thai university at 16 and he or she will have no trouble keeping up with 18 and 19 year old Mor 6 graduates. Thus a to British employer in the know a Thai degree is not worth much more than British A levels taken at 17 or 18. Looking at the materials studied by Thai 4th year bachelor degree students leads one to question whether a Thai bachelors is even really equivalent to A levels.

If you haven't already got a bachelor's degree from somewhere else, doing one in Thailand is a life style decision, not an educational decision or a career move.

[Heng]

One's mileage may vary but folks who get recruited here tend to get local packages and not expat packages anyway. If you had a handful of degrees and one happened to be Thai... and you get recruited while back home or living somewhere else.... you'd still likely get the expat deal.

[Orion76]

You may want to consider distance education, I had similar concerns and got an Australian uni degree while living in Thailand:

http://www.open.edu.au

Exams can be done at IDP on Silom road and the rest is done from home. Degrees are identical to on-campus degrees, without ever having to set foot in Australia.

[puipuitom]

If you are getting a degree in Thai Language it is a good idea. Anything else, silly idea.

Thanks for your reply! could your briefly expand on whay it's a silly idea to do anything apart from a Thai language degree.

The level of education is so dramatic low, that - seen my experience in hiring staff in TH over 18 years - the level compared with at least German is at least one step lower. So, Bachelor degree equals maximum high school here in Germany. So many Thais go to uni's abroad to have at least something on their curriculum. But mostly.. at Western Uni they followed an entering level of the language ( 1 year at a French Uni, and their French was lower as a German chiild with 3rd year High School =Realschule ) . And thanks to their parent's money, nobody ever asks for a certificate...

[Mooner]

I read that to pass mark for a Thai degree was 50% and the questions were multiple choice. This can't be true! Can it?

[jayjayjayjay]

Some good courses and quality lecturers at Payap in Chiang Mai.

[nellyp]

I would have thought that the degree courses would be in Thai. If so; wouldn't that make them difficult, except for a very good Thai speaker with a large (and specific) vocabulary? My wife went to Siam University (if I remember correctly) and the fees were high, in my opinion, for a country where so many people have a low income. Living in Thailand I hear a lot about how rubbish degrees are over here, though I have no experience to comment. I do not think that the rest of the world would be knowledgeable enough of the Thai education system to be able to pass a judgment on it.

[Tomtomtom69]

I have sat inside Thai university classrooms, mainly at the better universities (Thammasart and Kasetsart University) and I can give you two words to describe what I saw: "ROTE LEARNING". Basically the lecturer talks and talks without almost so much as taking a breath and keeps asking what are essentially rhetorical questions "chai mai?", which can be best translated (in this context) as "do you agree, or isn't that right?" but of course no student would dare answer that question or ever ask anything of the lecturers, tutors or other faculty. Basically the teacher is right and the student can not question what is right and what is wrong because the teacher must be right, that's why students are there - to learn from the teachers.

If you haven't got your Bachelor's degree yet, then I will have to agree with what most posters have said regarding Thai universities. First of all, while Chula, Thammasart, Kasetsart, Mahidol etc. are all quite good universities, I believe they are one thing for Thais and another for foreigners. Unless it's an international program we're talking about here, where the language of instruction is English, then you won't see any foreigners studying with the Thais. You'd have to be able to speak very fluent Thai to gain admission in the first place, and as mentioned, I have never seen any foreigners studying programs in the Thai language; if you did you'd definately stand out and perhaps even be quite popular! Basically you would then be left with the choice of either studying a degree majoring in Thai language, or any degree in an international program. Another option mentioned would be to study in the USA and come to Thailand on exchange (then again, for the most part, this option would restrict you to having to study in a Thai exchange program where English is the medium of instruction, but this is fine and the way it's done, since Thai is not an international language and foreigners can't be expected to learn Thai for the purpose of studying in an exchange program).

I think the international programs in Thailand are OK, though I can't evaluate them well since I don't know any people who have studied in those programs, however, what I can say is that in the case of say ABAC (Assumption University of Thailand), Thailand's first university to offer all their programs in the English language, doesn't really mean you'll end up encountering a Thai with excellent English skills that are far superior than their counterparts who studied a degree in Thai at any other Thai university. I know this because I have some friends who graduated from ABAC (all Thais) and they all have so-so English language skills that are at about the same level as their friends who studied at Thai universities in Thai. In addition, many employers will probably consider a graduate from Chula or Thammasart to be a more appropriate fit and will be more likely to hire them than if they graduated from ABAC, despite the fact that ABAC Bachelor degree graduates have studied for 4 years in English. ABAC and Thai international programs also seem to attract a large number of people from India, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, China and other regional countries rather than westerners. I have the feeling that because Thailand is still a developing country, there seems to be a perception that a westerner from a rich country in North America, Europe or Australia/NZ etc. shouldn't be studying in Thailand given that there are much better universities back home - if you're from Laos then studying in Thailand seems to be OK as all Thai universities are good compared to what's on offer in Laos.

Also, I believe that universities in western countries, many of which charge international students (the less politically correct term would be "foreign students") more than locals to study there easily accept a Thai undergraduate degree in order to be accepted into a graduate program. After all, the universities make money so it is not in their best interests to be picky about where the student studied, rather, what's more important is if they are capable by showing they have a high GPA and good English skills. On the other hand, I believe there is some naivety on the part of some universities in the west as to how capable a student who graduated from a Thai university really is given the level of cheating and corruption, etc. that is present in Thai universities. Also don't assume that just because a western university has a partnership with a university in Thailand or elsewhere that will automatically imply that the university in Thailand is of a comparable standard with the western one. Case in point: a university in Kunming, Yunnan province of China has exchange agreements with a number of universities in Thailand and the west, including Norway, however, that university has rampant cheating and poorly trained teachers in some cases. I have a local Chinese friend who graduated from there and someone in his graduating class pleaded with his teacher and head of faculty to let him graduate even though he was failing. A small bribe and the trick worked.

I also believe that a prospective Thai employer would probably still prefer to see a graduate with a western degree, however, they may be happy with a Thai degree seeing you are a foreigner, mainly because it shows them that you have commited some time and effort to the country and consequently have some level of understanding of its culture, people and ways of doing business etc. that can only be gained by living inside the country. If you have multiple degrees and one of them happens to be from Thailand, it may even work in your favor for some employers since they will see your commitment to, and understanding of this country (this would work best for NGOs, organizations such as the World Bank, etc.). On the other hand, rocking up in the USA with only a Bachelor's degree from a Thai university would probably not have a favorable impact, as your prospective employer will probably have little knowledge of the credibility of the educational system in Thailand and in any case would be much more likely to choose from the large pool of candidates with a local US degree that they can trust and verify the quality of education received.

In summary, weigh up the pros and cons of a Thai degree but it will depend on where you might want to seek future employment. If you want to return to the US, even if it's not immediately after you graduate, I would study in the USA and perhaps only then consider a graduate degree in Thailand, which should be an international program in English, definately not in Thai. If you want to stay in Thailand for a while (or even for most of your working life) then a Thai degree may be OK, though even then a US degree would most likely open more doors...this is particularly true if your recruiter is from a company that is owned and run by wealthy Thais, the so called hi-so class, nearly all of whom would send their sons and daughters to study abroad.

[Trembly]

Tomtomtom69 spells it out quite well.

[redwood13]

Tomtomtom69 spells it out quite well.

Yes, an excellent overview of the reality of education and employment in today's world.

-redwood

[scorecard]

Tomtomtom69 spells it out quite well.

Well I don't agree with many of the points in tomtom69's reply.

1. Rote learning. I have lectured for many years in several Thai university business schools, in International programs (simply means that the teaching is in English). The majority of deans will no longer accept rote learning and the Thai ajahns have been under pressure for some time to ensure there is a lot of intereaction in the class room. Plus today a very large number of students will complain quickly and loudly if the teacher simply reads from the text book.

2. Corruption. Yes it does exist, 10 years ago it was common, but nowadays it's very minimal.

3. Foreigners studying with Thais in a program presented in Thai language. Well of course you won't find this situation.

4. I have taught many international students and in the vast majority of cases the students have been very happy with the quality of teaching, etc. plus offshore universities will never agree to an exchange program unless they are well satisfied about quality.

[scorecard]

I read that to pass mark for a Thai degree was 50% and the questions were multiple choice. This can't be true! Can it?

This is generally not correct.

Thailand has excellent universities and rubbish universities, and the same banding exists in many first world countries.

50% is an oversimplification of how gradings work, and if it was expressed just as a percentage the number would be quite a bit higher, but difficult to quote an exact number.

Multiple choice, yes some lecturers include multiple choice but only perhaps for one question, and in many universities if teachers presented exam papers to the course directors with all or mostly multiple choice questions then the exam paper would very likely be rejected. Plus it's possible that the teacher would not get any further courses to teach.

Thai universities have changed a lot and quality has gone up. The old urban myths have all but gone, at least in the top unis.

In all of the exam papers I have written (in Thai unis) I have never once included a multiple choice question.

[Valjean]

As an employeer in Thailand who hires mostly recent college graduates, expat and Thai, I have a little different view point. And in my prior life working for a multi-national and interviewing and hiring MBAs from MIT, Stanford, Harvard and the rest because at that time we could get the cream of the crop.

The right degree from the right school will open doors. Especially with HR departments in big, top tier, companies. If that's your path, consider your choices. Aside form the elite I've a different view...

The critical skill for your working career won't be any subject you learned in school. It will be the ability to learn and re-learn and learn more. It's a different world and it's changing every day. For me an American who graduated from a Thai university would tell me that this is a person who took chances, who had the courage to do something different, and who was open to different experiences. It would suggest to me someone open to learning and new ideas. In other words a good hire. In a Flat World this would get my attention. "What the hell was he doing going to school in Thailand??" would make me interested to meet you.

I've hired and fired a both Harvard MBA and a hand-picked by HR Stanford undergrad superstar. Perhaps they weren't drilled in rote learning but they couldn't DO anything. They could talk a good talk, but no clue how to make things happen in the real world. That opened my eyes quite wide as to the value of an elite education.

The most important consideration is what would make you most happy. What in your heart do you really want to do? Follow your north star and don't let anyone hand you cheap advice otherwise. 30 years from now I promise you what college you went to won't turn out to be as pivotal in life as choosing to do the things you have passion for and have love in the doing.

If you nurture yourself, do things you love, and develop an ability to learn, adapt and grow that is the skill that will serve you well. When you interview with a prospective employeer it wil shine very brightly indeed. In addition to a job you'll have the pleasure of a life well lived. Follow your heart.

[craigt3365]

I just saw this:

http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/

Really interesting to see some of the schools that are in the top of the list.

[Berkshire]

I just saw this:

http://www.forbes.co...-colleges/list/

Really interesting to see some of the schools that are in the top of the list.

Interesting list. Very unconventional. Of course, any time Harvard is not number one (or even top five), it's unconventional. What really caught my eye was that 2 of the top ten are military academies. Don't see that much (ever, actually, if I recall). And I've never even heard of Williams College. Easy to disregard a list like this, except it's actually Forbes? Just goes to show you that publications can rank universities any darn way they please. Like throwing darts on a board. At least all the universities I ever attended are on the list--not that it means anything. That's what people do, don't they? Just check out the top 10, or 20. Then go and try to find their alma mater.

[Loz]

If you have a chance to go back to the US, and could attend one of the better universities, I would highly recommend that. It's an amazing experience and can set you off on a great track. Make the most out of it that you can!

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_and_university_rankings

...Yeah, it will help you snag one of them great jobs that will be floating around in 3/4 years... er...Not.

[KNJ]

Before embarking on your choice, take time out to consider where and what it is that you want to do in the long term.

If your desire is to remain in Thailand, then Thai language is a must at a very competent level.

There is it seems a mix of quality. However places like AIT I would hold in high regard, and there are others.

Cost is another consideration a degree at a top Ivy league colleague in USA will nbot be the same as a placement in Thailand. In general teh approach to completing teh degree seems more flexible in Thailand.

If at the end of your studies you have mastered Thai, obtained your qualification then the social network built over time will no doubt pay dividends.

If your desire is to just study an MBA what about remote learning?

I would urge you to think long term and then plan the steps that will take you in that general direction, then planning teh steps between including what to study and where to study will be easier to accomplish