'Low-Blow' For Thai Airways

[beano2274]

October is the suggested time for the inquiry to come to a conclusion according to reports.

[clinique]

If any fine ofcourse Thai and Thai authorities will dispute it !! Maybe the Australian authorities will impound all Thai aircraft in Australia - and cause another incident like the one in Germany..!! And the Thais will try to avaoid that payment for 20 years as well !!

Some people neer think / admit they are in the wrong !

[JohnAllan]

2,000 ft for Thai, 2,500 for Tiger?

[JohnAllan]

If any fine ofcourse Thai and Thai authorities will dispute it !! Maybe the Australian authorities will impound all Thai aircraft in Australia - and cause another incident like the one in Germany..!! And the Thais will try to avaoid that payment for 20 years as well !!

Some people neer think / admit they are in the wrong !

Of course not. We ARE in Asia, where 'face' trumps all else - from ethics to logic.

Edited July 27, 2011 by JohnAllan

[PlastikbinLina]

blah, blah, blah... "the ATSB said in a part-summary of its investigation so far.

It called it a "serious incident"

"The plane landed safely without incident."

@ ASTB.... get a life!

Incident have to be considered. Not respecting the Safety Altitudes is something serious even if there is no accident.

In Civil Aviation, Cow boys behaviors have been at the origin of numerous accidents, this is no more acceptable by Civil Aviation standards

Quite right it was a serious incident but shouldn't we wait for the resuts of the Civil Aviation investigaton? I don't know of any or have ever heard of criticism re Thai Airways like other Asian airlines get. I wouldn't travel with any other airline but Thai unless there's no choice in the matter. Getting on a Thai plane in Melbourne is like getting into Thailand before we get there.

[chooka]

I am waiting for microburst made me do it, to avoid a flock of birds, and we lost power @ the same time. Invistigation to take place. Expect results (if found) in 8-24 months.

The good thing is that the investigation will be conducted by Australian Authorities and not the BIB who would write it off as pure coincidence. Thai airways will not be able to buy a positive investigation in Australia.

[chooka]

2,000 ft for Thai, 2,500 for Tiger?

2 different airports

[DonGato]

I wonder what the pilots have to say here... any news of this -IMPORTANT- part of the story???

[doughpat]

Is anyone a pilot here, or have other ideas about WHY these planes descended too low? Curious if this was an "accident" (i.e. instrument failure, pilot error, etc.) or an intentional decisions (perhaps saving fuel or or avoiding unfavorable weather?). Inquiring minds want to know....

Juliar probably won't be welcome in Thailand if this goes much further.

Well if Tiger get grounded and still not flying, for decending to 2,000 ft one could asume that Thai will be grounded for decending to 1,000 ft.

[chooka]

I wonder what the pilots have to say here... any news of this -IMPORTANT- part of the story???

It was Somchai, he normally serve coffee and not have licence yet. Coincidence

[Bkkorupcountry]

Are there any fuel savings to be achieved by flying lower? If not, I can't fathom why the pilot would want to do so.

[harrycallahan]

In Australia the state of Victoria is nanny-state central. I wonder how common such an incident is and would we have heard anything about it if Tiger didn't have their recent troubles? Also you have the entrenched player Qantas pulling all the strings they can to hurt the competition.

[Orac]

I am waiting for microburst made me do it, to avoid a flock of birds, and we lost power @ the same time. Invistigation to take place. Expect results (if found) in 8-24 months.

The good thing is that the investigation will be conducted by Australian Authorities and not the BIB who would write it off as pure coincidence. Thai airways will not be able to buy a positive investigation in Australia.

How can it be a coincidence. Since this happenned in Australia it is crystal clear what happenned - the ground was obviously too high.

[snarky66]

I think a million USD ought to make it right. Which will be passed on to the flying public.

That's about 900,000 AUD not much really

So let's go for US 100 million.

[tigermonkey]

The yet might have been serviced by army personnel and it might therefore have been a precaution....

"yet" --- Are you Swedish? It's been a long time since I heard about 'yumbo yets' . Sorry I could not resist -- no offense intended to !

[techboy]

I think a million USD ought to make it right. Which will be passed on to the flying public.

There you go! I would have been disappointed if there was a Thaivisa article was posted without some "know it all" jumping in and suggesting corruption.

[bkkjames]

I think a million USD ought to make it right. Which will be passed on to the flying public.

There you go! I would have been disappointed if there was a Thaivisa article was posted without some "know it all" jumping in and suggesting corruption.

You are the one jumping to conclusions: I am sure the poster you quoted referred to a million dollar fine

[sjjmmi]

I think a million USD ought to make it right. Which will be passed on to the flying public.

There you go! I would have been disappointed if there was a Thaivisa article was posted without some "know it all" jumping in and suggesting corruption.

[ToffeEFCpower]

Put it down to "Wind Shear"

[bkkjames]

Put it down to "Wind Shear"

That's how it will play out - no loss of face. OZ did their Job in reporting it - airline saves face.

[Moza]

I don"t no why the aircraft came down so low as there is Nothing to see in North Sunshine.And one would think that there was some type of Warning buzzer going off at the time they came down that low.???????????????????????????????????

It is understood the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over the suburb of Sunshine North, when the permitted height was just under 2000 feet.

Edited July 27, 2011 by metisdead
Font reset and bold removed.

[notime]

Permitted height? Regulations?? But they were Thai so what would they know about that? Don't the aircraft fly the way they want in Thailand? .. and I'm sure never twice the same .. stupid Farang don't understand it's up to them

[diehard60]

It is understood the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over the suburb of Sunshine North, when the permitted height was just under 2000 feet.

An earlier investigation into a Tiger Airways aircraft landing at Melbourne Airport on June 7 found the flight approached at 2000 feet, instead of the minimum 2500 feet.

Permitted height = 2000ft.

Minimum height = 2500ft.

Iam not surprised the pilots are getting confused.

Don't you think 1,000 is just a little different then 2,000??????????????

[thaihome]

I don"t no why the aircraft came down so low as there is Nothing to see in North Sunshine.

It was on final approach to land. That requires it to get very low. At a certain point, it actually touches the ground when it lands.

TH

[AdmiralKen]

Come on people ... it's NORTH SUNSHINE <deleted>.. Nothing up there anyway apart from dole *&%(%s and *(*)&% addicts - and the occasional decent person trying to survive between them.

It's the "self proclaimed birthplace of the 'Ashes'" no less

... and has anyone forgotten that the Tiger aircraft had incorrect data in their OBCs? Maybe Thai has the same data? errr pilot flyig too low because computer says so.

Typical crap from Oz news agencies (where it no doubt originated)

Cheers, Ken

[webfact]

Australia probes low-flying Thai plane

SYDNEY, July 27, 2011 (AFP) - Australian authorities said Wednesday they have opened an investigation into a "serious incident" that saw a Thai Airways passenger flight flying too low as it approached Melbourne.

The Boeing 777 from Bangkok landed without incident after being detected flying under the permitted range 11 kilometres (7 miles) south of Melbourne Airport late on Sunday.

"During the approach, the aircraft descended below minimum altitude," the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said in a short statement, describing it as a "serious incident".

"The investigation is continuing," the statement added.

The bureau said it would gather information from Thai Airways and Australian air traffic controllers before making its final assessment.

It is the third time a passenger plane has been detected flying too low over Melbourne in recent weeks.

Two incidents involving Tiger Airways jets over Melbourne and Avalon airports which occurred in June are also being investigated. The incidents led to the budget carrier being grounded in Australia until August 1.

The offshoot of Singapore's Tiger Airways was banned from flying from July 1 after the safety breaches which followed an official warning on pilot proficiency and training, fatigue management and other issues.

Tiger on Wednesday refused to confirm media reports that it would resume domestic services on August 6, saying only it was working constructively with Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to return to service.

"There is no information available yet as to when Tiger Airways Australia may resume services, but it is committed to do so as soon as possible," the carrier said in a statement.

CASA said through a spokesman it was attempting to finalise the matter on or before August 1 but no decision had yet been taken.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-07-27

[Puccini]

2,000 ft for Thai, 2,500 for Tiger?

2 different airports

...and, as another member posted:

The permitted height and minimum height will vary due to the distance from the airport.

You can watch the declining height of aircraft landing at Melbourne airport here: http://webtrak.bksv.com/mel. The next TG flight scheduled to land is TG 461 at 2000 hours local time, 1000 hours UTC, Thai time 1700 hours, ie in about an hour, if I got these time calculations correct.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Puccini

[lomatopo]

I just reviewed the chart for YMML (MEL) and there are nine (9) different arrivals! Very confusing. Plus it looks like there is a small airport nearby (Essendon?) and on some of the 34 arrivals you overfly the smaller airports' main runway (SHEDD at 2500 feet), then turn right for runway 34 at YMML.

The VOR 34 approach (which is the one this TG flight was using as far as I can tell) calls for a turn to heading 346 at TONAR at ~ 3,000 feet. The chart is pretty clear, FL 1985 feet at DME 6.5 (miles out) and 1950 feet at 5 miles. So at first blush it looks like the flight deck was confused, or mis-positioned. Typically ATC calls out changes in heading, flight level, airspeed so not sure what happened here?

I assume it was dark (20:15)? How was the weather?

Anyway, I think we should wait for the results of the ATSB report, due in October.

I think all TG flight officers are professionals, and hopefully the investigation will identify the causes of this incident. Then I am certain TG will take corrective action if called for.

[JimSiam]

At least it didnt end up like this http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/qf1/15.shtml

[whybother]

Come on people ... it's NORTH SUNSHINE <deleted>.. Nothing up there anyway apart from dole *&%(%s and *(*)&% addicts - and the occasional decent person trying to survive between them.

It's the "self proclaimed birthplace of the 'Ashes'" no less

... and has anyone forgotten that the Tiger aircraft had incorrect data in their OBCs? Maybe Thai has the same data? errr pilot flyig too low because computer says so.

Typical crap from Oz news agencies (where it no doubt originated)

Cheers, Ken

Birthplace of "The Ashes" is Sunbury (just north of the airport), not Sunshine.

I think the "crap" originated with the ATSB. Given Tiger's grounding after a couple of low fly incidents (among other things), there is no surprise that this has been reported.