softgeorge Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) I didn't hear anything of this incident in the Thai media......... Thai Airways is Not commenting on an incident in which one of its jets allegedly flew too low over Melbourne on Sunday night.The Boeing 777 on route from Bangkok to Tullamarine descended below the minimum permitted altitude, on Sunday night. It's believed the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over Sunshine North, about half the limit the safety bureau has declared acceptable. The plane landed safely without incident. The Air Transport Safety Bureau is investigating, describing it as a "serious incident". This comes after budget airliner Tiger Airways was sanctioned for flying too low only three weeks ago. Source Posted by: 3AW Radio | 27 July, 2011 - 1:53 PM Edited July 27, 2011 by Maestro Added quote tags and link to source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Air safety authorities launch investigation into Thai jet that flew too low over Melbourne AUTHORITIES have launched an investigation after a Thai Airways jet flew too low over central Melbourne, an action similar to the two incidents which led to Tiger Airways being grounded. The Boeing 777-3D7, carrying passengers from Bangkok, descended below the minimum permitted altitude, about 11km south of Melbourne Airport, just at 8.19pm (AEST) on July 24, according to Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) data. It is understood the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over the suburb of Sunshine North, when the permitted height was just under 2000 feet. "During the approach, the aircraft descended below minimum altitude. The investigation is continuing," the ATSB said in a part-summary of its investigation so far. It called it a "serious incident". The 777-3D7 went on to land safely at Melbourne Airport a short time later. The incident follows a decision by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to ground all Tiger Airways flights on July 1 after two of its jets breached safe altitude limits. A Tiger Airways flight flew too low without permission as it approached Avalon Airport, near Melbourne, on June 30. An earlier investigation into a Tiger Airways aircraft landing at Melbourne Airport on June 7 found the flight approached at 2000 feet, instead of the minimum 2500 feet. A directions hearing is scheduled in the Federal Court in Melbourne on Thursday regarding Tiger Airways resuming flights. Comment is being sought from Thai Airways. Source: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/air-safety-authorities-launch-investigation-into-thai-jet-that-flew-too-low-over-melbourne/story-e6frg6nf-1226102610408 -- theaustralian.com.au 2011-07-27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) This is 1,000 ft lower than what got Tiger airways grounded in Australia. (2,000) Thai Airways have a lot of explaining and back pedling to do on this one. Edited July 27, 2011 by chooka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilvingtono Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Juliar probably won't be welcome in Thailand if this goes much further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) It is understood the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over the suburb of Sunshine North, when the permitted height was just under 2000 feet. An earlier investigation into a Tiger Airways aircraft landing at Melbourne Airport on June 7 found the flight approached at 2000 feet, instead of the minimum 2500 feet. Permitted height = 2000ft. Minimum height = 2500ft. Iam not surprised the pilots are getting confused. Edited July 27, 2011 by Spoonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Juliar probably won't be welcome in Thailand if this goes much further. Well if Tiger get grounded and still not flying, for decending to 2,000 ft one could asume that Thai will be grounded for decending to 1,000 ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfie Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) blah, blah, blah... "the ATSB said in a part-summary of its investigation so far. It called it a "serious incident" "The plane landed safely without incident." @ ATSB.... get a life! Edit: typo Edited July 27, 2011 by warfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazmlb Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Juliar probably won't be welcome in Thailand if this goes much further. Well if Tiger get grounded and still not flying, for decending to 2,000 ft one could asume that Thai will be grounded for decending to 1,000 ft. Sunshine is 3-400 ft above sea level so they actually came in around 6-700 ft off the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 blah, blah, blah... "the ATSB said in a part-summary of its investigation so far. It called it a "serious incident" "The plane landed safely without incident." @ ASTB.... get a life! It is a serious incident in regards to breach of safety. Are you saying that aircraft should be allowed to fly at any hieght they want to? A serious safety breach and you say ASTB get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyjune Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) Australian ATSB initial report http://www.atsb.gov....x#tab_1_content More information http://avherald.com/...=4403e7bf&opt=0 Initial Thai Visa thread with information. http://www.thaivisa....94#entry4585194 Edited July 27, 2011 by happyjune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattel Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The permitted height and minimum height will vary due to the distance from the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrytheyoung Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 blah, blah, blah... "the ATSB said in a part-summary of its investigation so far. It called it a "serious incident" "The plane landed safely without incident." @ ASTB.... get a life! Incident have to be considered. Not respecting the Safety Altitudes is something serious even if there is no accident. In Civil Aviation, Cow boys behaviors have been at the origin of numerous accidents, this is no more acceptable by Civil Aviation standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Juliar probably won't be welcome in Thailand if this goes much further. Well if Tiger get grounded and still not flying, for decending to 2,000 ft one could asume that Thai will be grounded for decending to 1,000 ft. I thought tiger was grounded due to multiple issues, not just the low fly one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragickingdom Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The yet might have been serviced by army personnel and it might therefore have been a precaution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basinboy Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The low fly infringement by Tiger was the second to be recoreded and was only one of several incidents that led to the grounding of the airline. I think Thai will be OK, I hope so anyway, I'm booked on a flight from Melbourne to Bangkok on 20th August Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiorchidsource Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Commercial aircraft are required to fly an instrument approach on an instrument flight plan to most airports, and so follow a glide slope, with a formal proceedure under the control of Air traffic control radar would be assumed. Most airports that I am aware of have a MEA pattern altitude for heavy aircraft of 2000 feet AGL or above for a visual approaches. So how did they go below pattern altitude, if they were flying a visual approach? Something went quite wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJJ Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The low fly infringement by Tiger was the second to be recoreded and was only one of several incidents that led to the grounding of the airline. I think Thai will be OK, I hope so anyway, I'm booked on a flight from Melbourne to Bangkok on 20th August One of the major reasons Tiger was grounded and then extended was one of the pilots flying too low then refused Air Traffic Controller instructions to increase altitude. Being low will get you investigated and fined. Ignoring instructions will get you shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bapak Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I do not think Air Traffic Control would have ordered a "go around" without good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Juliar probably won't be welcome in Thailand if this goes much further. Well if Tiger get grounded and still not flying, for decending to 2,000 ft one could asume that Thai will be grounded for decending to 1,000 ft. Sunshine is 3-400 ft above sea level so they actually came in around 6-700 ft off the deck. No, approach altitudes and those in this report are expressed as "above ground level" (AGL) and not as "mean sea level" (MSL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfie Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 blah, blah, blah... "the ATSB said in a part-summary of its investigation so far. It called it a "serious incident" "The plane landed safely without incident." @ ASTB.... get a life! Incident have to be considered. Not respecting the Safety Altitudes is something serious even if there is no accident. In Civil Aviation, Cow boys behaviors have been at the origin of numerous accidents, this is no more acceptable by Civil Aviation standards Sure, I agree that the airline and more importantly the captain of the aircraft ought to be seriously reprimanded and heavily fined. But, since there was no actual incident, ie: "The plane landed safely", I regard this as a storm in a tea-cup, not a "serious incident", in fact, not even newsworthy... @Chooka No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrobert Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Maybe Seriouseats was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarky66 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I think a million USD ought to make it right. Which will be passed on to the flying public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Juliar probably won't be welcome in Thailand if this goes much further. Well if Tiger get grounded and still not flying, for decending to 2,000 ft one could asume that Thai will be grounded for decending to 1,000 ft. Sunshine is 3-400 ft above sea level so they actually came in around 6-700 ft off the deck. I would assume the regulations are to ground level, not sea level. If was sea level in many mountain city destinations all over the world 2000 feet above sea level would mean they are flying under ground on the approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorOne Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It is understood the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over the suburb of Sunshine North, when the permitted height was just under 2000 feet. An earlier investigation into a Tiger Airways aircraft landing at Melbourne Airport on June 7 found the flight approached at 2000 feet, instead of the minimum 2500 feet. Permitted height = 2000ft. Minimum height = 2500ft. Iam not surprised the pilots are getting confused. Minimum height 1,800' The TG flight in question was 800' This is serious shit and any half assed explanation by Thai will likely (or should) fall on deaf ears. All Indonesian carriers were banned from flying in the EU a couple of years back and Thai should be banned in Australia. It is not as if their safety record can stand up to close scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softgeorge Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 blah, blah, blah... "the ATSB said in a part-summary of its investigation so far. It called it a "serious incident" "The plane landed safely without incident." @ ASTB.... get a life! It is a serious incident in regards to breach of safety. Are you saying that aircraft should be allowed to fly at any hieght they want to? A serious safety breach and you say ASTB get a life. I think what warfie is implying is that, This is a Thai aircraft crewed by thais flying over farang residential area and things are done differently in Thailand. A little like the road rules in Thailand, they are there but not generally used or enforced all the same in the air or on the ground. So he is saying that Aussie farangs should just get a life and get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I think a million USD ought to make it right. Which will be passed on to the flying public. That's about 900,000 AUD not much really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x5david Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 You're the one who is confused. Your mixing the two incidents of Thai and Tiger.... It is understood the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over the suburb of Sunshine North, when the permitted height was just under 2000 feet. An earlier investigation into a Tiger Airways aircraft landing at Melbourne Airport on June 7 found the flight approached at 2000 feet, instead of the minimum 2500 feet. Permitted height = 2000ft. Minimum height = 2500ft. Iam not surprised the pilots are getting confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saroq Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 It is understood the aircraft flew at about 1000 feet over the suburb of Sunshine North, when the permitted height was just under 2000 feet. An earlier investigation into a Tiger Airways aircraft landing at Melbourne Airport on June 7 found the flight approached at 2000 feet, instead of the minimum 2500 feet. Permitted height = 2000ft. Minimum height = 2500ft. Iam not surprised the pilots are getting confused. They are height requirements for two separate events in different locations. Reread the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I am waiting for microburst made me do it, to avoid a flock of birds, and we lost power @ the same time. Invistigation to take place. Expect results (if found) in 8-24 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I do not think Air Traffic Control would have ordered a "go around" without good reason. Took me a while to find the "go round" - thought you might have been confusing the meaning of "short time'" in oz as opposed to Thailand. 18 minutes seems about right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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