Discussion At Immigration Today

[StreetCowboy]

And don't get me started on trying to explain to bank officials about my Channel Islands bank account... which is denominated in HK dollars...

SC

[Mossfinn]

No wonder people are confused, this Province which is part of the UK, is also part of the Republic of Ireland, which is not part of the UK and when you consider that Ireland is part of the British Isles and not an integral part of Great Britain, crickey Good Luck in sorting that out.

The Republic may lay claim to Northern Ireland, but it is not part of the Republic. At the moment it is politically and legally part of the UK, and will hopefully remain so until and unless the majority of it's population wish otherwise.

Geographically, both NI and the RoI are parts of the island of Ireland; but that does not mean that NI is part of the RoI.

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

The island of Ireland and the island of Great Britain are geographically both part of the British Isles; as are the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Orkneys, the Scilly Isles etc.

Edit:-

Just read eyebee's link, which explains it in more detail and much better than I.

Articles 2 & 3 of the Irish Constitution was changed by the 19th amendment, claims to the whole of the Island of Ireland were somewhat watered down.

My poiint which you hopefully missed on purpose, is that the Province of Ulster (in part)is both part of the Republic and of the Six Counties.

You mentioned N Ireland, I didn't, Norn Iron, is not the same as the Province (which I mentioned) of Ulster, and as for laying claim to any territory, look up article 19.

[7by7]

Apols, I thought you were referring to Northern Ireland rather than Ulster. I accept that my use of the term 'province' was incorrect as 'province' refers to the whole 9 counties of Ulster, not just the six counties that form NI.

You are, of course, correct in saying that part of Ulster is in the RoI and part in the UK. The six counties that are in the UK form Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland is most definitely not part of the RoI.

Article 19?

Provision may be made by law for the direct election by any functional or vocational group or association or council of so many members of Seanad Éireann as may be fixed by such law in substitution for an equal number of the members to be elected from the corresponding panels of candidates constituted under Article 18 of this Constitution.

Sorry, I don't see the relevance.

[KeyserSoze01]

Typical British pedantic twit.

What, you've never heard of a joke. Look that up, perhaps you'll gain a sense of humor while your at it.

I don't believe a real Pikey would appreciate your sense of Humour,not that you would ever call one a Pikey to his face.

BTW I'm English!

Much as you would not call a spade a spade. Just how many derogatory names do the Brits have for each other, eh?

More pedantry. No, you're British. At least that's what your passport says, right? Why does a country which is smaller than the state of Oregon have so many separate cultures that refuse to respect each other? In my experience, the favorite pass time for everyone from the UK is to take the piss out of each other.

[Moonrakers]

Typical British pedantic twit.

What, you've never heard of a joke. Look that up, perhaps you'll gain a sense of humor while your at it.

I don't believe a real Pikey would appreciate your sense of Humour,not that you would ever call one a Pikey to his face.

BTW I'm English!

Much as you would not call a spade a spade. Just how many derogatory names do the Brits have for each other, eh?

More pedantry. No, you're British. At least that's what your passport says, right? Why does a country which is smaller than the state of Oregon have so many separate cultures that refuse to respect each other? In my experience, the favorite pass time for everyone from the UK is to take the piss out of each other.

It's banter. Nothing to do with respect

The Ozzies and Kiwis are known for it as well.

[WarpSpeed]

OP. you were in an Immigration Office. That's where a legalistic view is taken of such matters as nationality, and your nationality is what it says in your passport - British - the same as all the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish presenting themselves for the same process (assuming the latter haven't exercised their right to present an Irish passport instead). It's fine to be proud of your heritage and identity, but no IO gives a flying fart about anything like that, and you're wasting your time trying to make such facile points to them.

When I worked on the desk at Heathrow I used to smile at the American tourists who, against the 'Nationality' line on the landing card would put their genealogy - wonderful concoctions like Irish/Jewish/Polish, and so on. And then there were the ones that used to put 'Caucasian', and would get horribly confused when you asked them "What's the weather like in Caucasia at the moment?"

Ah, but putting "American" could get confused with those folks from the northern cold counties, or even those from the southern locals. Better to just state "USA."

Reckon about everything north of Panama might be considered "American" by some people.

Mac

Only un-enlightened people would consider it that as only "Americans" from the USA are referred to as Americans all others are referred to by their country's national identity I.E. Brazil= Brazilians, Canada= Canadians, Mexico= Mexicans and so on...

My last cruise in the US Navy we went to Chile and Peru we where told if asked where you are from do not say America as these people are also Americans

Whomever told you that was quite ill informed as they're Peruvians and Chileans by any official definition and are a part of the south American continent, but not "Americans" as we're not referred to as USAcans are we? ....

[WarpSpeed]

OP. you were in an Immigration Office. That's where a legalistic view is taken of such matters as nationality, and your nationality is what it says in your passport - British - the same as all the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish presenting themselves for the same process (assuming the latter haven't exercised their right to present an Irish passport instead). It's fine to be proud of your heritage and identity, but no IO gives a flying fart about anything like that, and you're wasting your time trying to make such facile points to them.

When I worked on the desk at Heathrow I used to smile at the American tourists who, against the 'Nationality' line on the landing card would put their genealogy - wonderful concoctions like Irish/Jewish/Polish, and so on. And then there were the ones that used to put 'Caucasian', and would get horribly confused when you asked them "What's the weather like in Caucasia at the moment?"

Ah, but putting "American" could get confused with those folks from the northern cold counties, or even those from the southern locals. Better to just state "USA."

Reckon about everything north of Panama might be considered "American" by some people.

Mac

Only un-enlightened people would consider it that as only "Americans" from the USA are referred to as Americans all others are referred to by their country's national identity I.E. Brazil= Brazilians, Canada= Canadians, Mexico= Mexicans and so on...

Actually, "Mexicans" refer to their country as El País or la República not Mexico, except when talking internationally or in newspapers. At home, when they say Mexico, they are referring to Mexico City, and they DO refer to themselves as Americans. (Ha, ha, yes, even the illegals).

Complicated can of worms, isn't it?

They must have taken that from the British doctrine of country reference (or is it the UK)? ..

JFYI I went to school in San Diego and also lived a stint in Tucson Arizona and Texas and there they all referred to themselves the way we referred to them which was as Mexicans..

[jombom]

No wonder people are confused, this Province which is part of the UK, is also part of the Republic of Ireland, which is not part of the UK and when you consider that Ireland is part of the British Isles and not an integral part of Great Britain, crickey Good Luck in sorting that out.

The Republic may lay claim to Northern Ireland, but it is not part of the Republic. At the moment it is politically and legally part of the UK, and will hopefully remain so until and unless the majority of it's population wish otherwise.

Geographically, both NI and the RoI are parts of the island of Ireland; but that does not mean that NI is part of the RoI.

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

The island of Ireland and the island of Great Britain are geographically both part of the British Isles; as are the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Orkneys, the Scilly Isles etc.

Edit:-

Just read eyebee's link, which explains it in more detail and much better than I.

Actually Scotland and Northern Ireland are much more closely related than many people realise. People have been crossing the short stretch of sea for more than 1000 years.

In fact NI is probably where modern Scotland grew it's roots. The expression ''Slan go var'' is not understood by many Scots. It is actually a corruption from Celtic ''Slainte mhaith'' meaning ''Good health''.

The French '' a votre sante'' and the English words sane, sanitation, and sanitary having the same roots.

[Thongkorn]

I would think that England is one of the most racist Country's in the world, against its own people , cannot say Christmas because it upsets some of the other religions, we have to say holiday now, we do not celebrate our St George because it offends people, the list goes on , OH and if you have a Thai wife that lives with you in England you have probably had to to pay for Visas , Go through English tests, Jump through all the hoops, then when she is here she registers for a national Insurance number, gets a Job and pays taxes, and still is entitled to very little if anything , but if you are from eastern Europe you can get every thing for free without paying one penny into the British coffers, go on the dole claim family credit housing benefits ex ex. Again forced on us by the EEC,

PS thanks for posting endure , Lark ascending beautifully

Edited July 30, 2011 by Thongkorn

[geriatrickid]

Scottish by birth and proud of it. And anyone who asks will be answered with "Scottish" - except;

A British national by politicisation , carry a British passport , and have no problem with immigration forms by writing British.

Learned a long time ago that creating a "storm in a teacup" with immigration officers (anywhere) normally is not wise.

This sums it up quite nicely. Takes out the Scots and the English in one brilliant scene

[Mossfinn]

The Republic may lay claim to Northern Ireland,

Apols, I thought you were referring to Northern Ireland rather than Ulster. I accept that my use of the term 'province' was incorrect as 'province' refers to the whole 9 counties of Ulster, not just the six counties that form NI.

You are, of course, correct in saying that part of Ulster is in the RoI and part in the UK. The six counties that are in the UK form Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland is most definitely not part of the RoI.

Article 19?

Provision may be made by law for the direct election by any functional or vocational group or association or council of so many members of Seanad Éireann as may be fixed by such law in substitution for an equal number of the members to be elected from the corresponding panels of candidates constituted under Article 18 of this Constitution.

Sorry, I don't see the relevance.

Apology accepted, but I cannot understand why you thought I was referring to N. Ireland, when I never even mentioned the place in my post you quoted.

You are, of course, correct in saying that part of Ulster is in the RoI and part in the UK. The six counties that are in the UK form Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland is most definitely not part of the RoI.

Who says Thai Visa is not a vehicle of learning

As for Aricle 19 and the little bit you quoted, it is always best to know the subject, instead of being derailed by a small part of a very detailed and complex political situation.

However, it is my turn to apologise, but I meant the 19th amendment, but it shouldn't of taken too much google work, as I am sure you googled Article 19.

A further however, your quote that the Republic lays claim to N Ireland, this is where the 19 Amendment comes in, where it states it is an 'asperation' for a United Ireland and no longer ' part of a single entity of the Island of Ireland' and to seek so by peaceful means and so changing the original wording of Articles 2 & 3.

I have written this from memory, so the exact wording may not be correct, but the gist is correct nonetheless.

[saraburioz]

Tell all the tuk tuk drivers in Bangkok who have the Union Jack flag on the bak with England written underneath,

[saraburioz]

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

[IMA_FARANG]

Isn't this a silly topic?

I am from the United States of America, just like many of you postimg here are from The United Kingdom.

I was born in the state of Massachusetts, but that does not make me a Masachusettsian (to coin a term).

That is in the area of the U.S.A. called New England, but I don't have New Englander on my passport.

It's on the east coast of the U.S.A. but it doesn't say East Coaster on my passport either.

My family came to the U.S.A. from Canada about 1850...but my passport doesnt say ex-Canadian either.

Before that my French ancestors came to Canada and specifically Montreal to sttle about 1700.

But my passport says nothing about any of that. For Nationality it simply says United States of America.

[Eff1n2ret]

Isn't this a silly topic?

It certainly is.

[92302]

I am from the United States of America, just like many of you postimg here are from The United Kingdom.

I was born in the state of Massachusetts, but that does not make me a Masachusettsian

England is not a state it's a country. The only "state" are your National Curriculum subjects IE lack of geography and a sorry state it is at that.

[Arkady]

This was a huge problem for me when I applied for Thai nationality (still waiting). Thai government departments always used to translate British as "angrit" which meant that I was English in my tabien baan, residence book, alien book and work permit. Then the Foreign Ministry issued a directive about 5 years ago to the effect that the country must always be referred to as the United Kingdom and the nationality as British in Thai official documents, since England and English have no legal significance overseas. This was not made retroactive and Immigration and Labour Ministry seem happy to renew documents with English nationality inscribed in them. The exception is the district office network which is now fully computerised and has a code for each foreign nationality. Sad to say that England and English are not in their system. That meant that in order to get a small change (my parents had been listed as "stateless") made in my tabien baan at the district office, I had to change my nationality from English to British. This meant getting declarationa from the British Embassy that I and my parents were all British and certified translations legalised by the Foreign Ministry. Then I had to go the district office I had first registered a tabien baan in 1997 to get notarised copies of the application form and of all the personal details of the owner of the building. Having jumped through the district office hoops, I was told by the police that it wouldn't do to have different nationalities in my Thai documents. Thus they would have accepted me as English in all of them but now that I was British in my tabien baan I was going to have to change to British nationality in all of them. This was easy to fix in my work permit and only took two days. However, getting my nationality changed in my alien book and residence book was a nightmare that took over three months and required numerous trips and calls to Immigration and my local police station and the filling in of forms, plus a one and a half hour interview at Immigration to verify the change and re-verify all my other details and those of my wife. At one point the Immigration officer said knowingly that all this was caused by a recent change in my country. I laughingly agreed but added that the recent change took place in, I think, 1714, the date of the official union of the crowns of England and Scotland.

Anyway, count yourself lucky, if you have been classified as British by Thai government officials. It may save you a lot of trouble. In any case, they use the word "angrit" as a incorrect translation of British. Thus they used to classify Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish as English, despite no doubt many protests from Celts. If the SNP eventually secede from the UK, I hope I will not be forced to do the whole thing again in reverse. For now they seem happy to milk the English taxpayers for huge subsidies.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Arkady

[prodriver]

Scottish by birth and proud of it.

This business of "pride" when it comes to nationality has always been somewhat of a mystery to me. I fail to see how one can be proud of something that one had no control or influence over.

For instance, I happened to be born in Wales - whether I liked it or not. If I'd have had any say in the matter I might have opted to be born somewhere else in the world so I'm not proud to be British....I just am British!

However, I will say that I feel that I was somewhat fortunate to have been born where I was as I was lucky enough to have had a British education and that consequently my mother tongue is english which I consider has been an asset in my life.

Now donning kevlar jacket in anticipation of the replies!

[anon7867763]

Like it or not English carry a British passport therefore in the eyes of the rest of the world you are British

Can't beleive someone can be SO dum as to argue with immigration on that point.

[Moonrakers]

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

No, it isn't.

Great Britain is the name given to the largest of the islands.

[saraburioz]

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

No, it isn't.

Great Britain is the name given to the largest of the islands.

Ok so Shetland and Mull aren't great Britain?

[Moonrakers]

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

No, it isn't.

Great Britain is the name given to the largest of the islands.

Ok so Shetland and Mull aren't great Britain?

No, they are not Great Britain.

They are part of Britain, or the British Isles, or Scotland, or the United Kingdom. But they are not part of Great Britain.

Politically though, they are. It depends in what context you are asking.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Moonrakers

[smokie36]

No, they are not Great Britain.

They are part of Britain, or the British Isles, or Scotland, or the United Kingdom. But they are not part of Great Britain.

Politically though, they are. It depends in what context you are asking.

You're correct to mention the political aspect. I guess Jersey or the Isle of Man fall into a different category.

[7by7]

You're correct to mention the political aspect. I guess Jersey or the Isle of Man fall into a different category.

Indeed they do; they are Crown Dependencies, as is Guernsey.

Which means that none of them are actually part of the UK; or the EU!

Then there's Sark; which is a Royal Fief.

[Atmos]

while we're talking island . . . The Falklands! - as British as people who live in Land's End

complete with British passports

[StreetCowboy]

QUOTES

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

No, it isn't. _{^{(SC: I can't believe you didn't come over all Monty Python when you wrote this!)}}

Great Britain is the name given to the largest of the islands.

Ok so Shetland and Mull aren't great Britain?

No, they are not Great Britain.

They are part of Britain, or the British Isles, or Scotland, or the United Kingdom. But they are not part of Great Britain.

Politically though, they are. It depends in what context you are asking.

ENDQUOTES

My apologies - I thought I had posted this yesterday, but apparently not...

A list of the inhabited British Isles:

http://en.wikipedia....e_British_Isles

Rockall, the most remote of the British Isles, lies some 300 km West of the farthest of the inhabited islands - an occasional military base in the St Kilda group.

SC

[electau]

Your nationality is what is stated in your passport. You are a British Citizen. However the country you were born in is England. Racially you would be Anglo-Saxon. Race is always difficult to define.

[rott]

hey mate. i from the republic of ireland and i hava a irish passport.we have no conection to great britan at all and and northen ireland residence are also entitled to apply for a irish passport since about 2000 which i believe most are doing..some people need to cop on

Ken is that why you didn't bother to learn the English language? And I do not believe that most Northern Ireland ''residence'' (sic) are applying for Irish passports, in fact there were reports in the press recently that your mate McGuinness was advising all Irish people to apply for British passports. Unfortunately I did not read the full story.

Edited August 1, 2011 by rott

[rott]

No wonder people are confused, this Province which is part of the UK, is also part of the Republic of Ireland, which is not part of the UK and when you consider that Ireland is part of the British Isles and not an integral part of Great Britain, crickey Good Luck in sorting that out.

The Republic may lay claim to Northern Ireland, but it is not part of the Republic. At the moment it is politically and legally part of the UK, and will hopefully remain so until and unless the majority of it's population wish otherwise.

Geographically, both NI and the RoI are parts of the island of Ireland; but that does not mean that NI is part of the RoI.

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

The island of Ireland and the island of Great Britain are geographically both part of the British Isles; as are the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Orkneys, the Scilly Isles etc.

Edit:-

Just read eyebee's link, which explains it in more detail and much better than I.

Articles 2 & 3 of the Irish Constitution was changed by the 19th amendment, claims to the whole of the Island of Ireland were somewhat watered down.

My poiint which you hopefully missed on purpose, is that the Province of Ulster (in part)is both part of the Republic and of the Six Counties.

You mentioned N Ireland, I didn't, Norn Iron, is not the same as the Province (which I mentioned) of Ulster, and as for laying claim to any territory, look up article 19.

No Mossfinn he did not miss your point on purpose, I think your point was written in a (deliberately?) misleading manner, you have to read it very carefully not to read ''Ulster is part of the Republic.'' 7by7 was actually spot on.

[7by7]

if you are from eastern Europe you can get every thing for free without paying one penny into the British coffers, go on the dole claim family credit housing benefits ex ex. Again forced on us by the EEC,

Completely, utterly and totally untrue.

Those exercising an economic treaty right to live and work in an EEA state other than their own are not entitled to receive state benefits; except those for which they have previously paid contributions; contribution based jobseekers allowance, for example.

Remember, too, that you have exactly the same right to live in another EEA state; as the many British pensioners who have retired to Spain can testify.