Obama Announces Deal To Raise Debt Limit, Cut Spending

[chuckd]

Scott's on top of things today!

Anyway, here is another rational voice about how the right wing fanatic tea people have DESTROYED the fragile recovery. Nihilists, UNAMERICAN, terrorists, hostage takers, traitors, simply ignorant, whatever you call them, the blame is on THEIR HEADS.

The Great Recession of 2008 has morphed into the North Atlantic Recession: It is mainly Europe and the United States, not the major emerging markets, that have become mired in slow growth and high unemployment. And it is Europe and America that are marching, alone and together, to the denouement of a grand debacle. A busted bubble led to a massive Keynesian stimulus that averted a much deeper recession but that also fueled substantial budget deficits. The response—massive spending cuts—ensures that unacceptably high levels of unemployment (a vast waste of resources and an oversupply of suffering) will continue, possibly for years.

Continued here:

http://www.slate.com/id/2301013/

Just another DNC opinion piece.

You really should change your attacks on the TP. Your verbiage is becoming stale.

[Jingthing]

Not really!

Stiglitz has advised American President Barack Obama, but has also been sharply critical of the Obama Administration's financial-industry rescue plan. Stiglitz said that whoever designed the Obama administration's bank rescue plan is "either in the pocket of the banks or they’re incompetent."

wiki

[koheesti]

Talk about too much power in the hands of a few - and these guys were never elected to anything.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/sandp-considering-first-downgrade-of-us-credit-rating/2011/08/05/gIQAqKeIxI_print.html

S&P's downgrade served as an indictment of the gridlock that sent the nation to the edge of defaulting on its debt obligations. It is also striking in part because it reflects the tremendous power of a small group of financial analysts employed by a New York company — part of McGraw-Hill. Credit-rating companies' reputations were sullied during the financial crisis.

Edited August 6, 2011 by koheesti

[flying]

[endure]

You wouldn't recognise a real socialist if one crept up behind you and bit you on the arse

I would. My mother grew up in an AMERICAN school which sung The Internationale every morning.

So your Mom grew up in a school that sings songs? Singing songs doesn't make you a Socialist (or anything else). Claiming so may make you a hyperbolista but it doesn't make you a socialist.

I never said that I am a socialist and I don't appreciate your twisty games here.

Neither did I. I was using the generic "you" but if you choose to take it personally then 'up to you'.

You said that your Mom went to a school where they sang a song and sort of implied that singing a song meant that she'd signed up to some sort of political philosophy.

My 'twisty games' seem to exist solely in your head.

[endure]

Talk about too much power in the hands of a few - and these guys were never elected to anything.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/sandp-considering-first-downgrade-of-us-credit-rating/2011/08/05/gIQAqKeIxI_print.html

S&P's downgrade served as an indictment of the gridlock that sent the nation to the edge of defaulting on its debt obligations. It is also striking in part because it reflects the tremendous power of a small group of financial analysts employed by a New York company — part of McGraw-Hill. Credit-rating companies' reputations were sullied during the financial crisis.

I didn't see you complaining when S&P were downgrading the credit ratings of countries other than the USA.

[snarky66]

Might be useful to examine how we got into this mess. Because some claim Obama inherited this massive economic & fiscal problem.

Alan Greenspan was incredibly good at creating bubbles. By massively increasing the money supply & keeping interest rates way too low for way too long. So 1999-2000 we had the internet stock bubble.

From the instant that bubble was pricked & property bubble began.

House prices were going up 30-40 % per year & in some cases doubling in one year.

I remember President Bush giving a speech in which he stated it was the right of every American to own their own home. So NINJA loans 100% finance - zero down became the norm. People who should never have been qualified for a loan got them. Then the bright boys over at Golden Slacks decided they could bundle these loans & sell them off as securities (all the while THEY were shorting the securities.) But it was the policies of Barney Frank Ed Markey Maxine Waters Shelia Jackson Lee that really made things bad.

So House run by Dems since 2006. Comrade Pelosi in charge.

OK Barack inherited a mess. Created by mostly Dems in the House & Senate,

We are just now seeing MAYBE the unwinding of the commodities bubble. Wheat corn coffee soybeans stuff people use every day. Since the fifties people have been told they can buy whatever they want & just "charge it". Very destructive. Thailand is at the early stages of this right now as plastic becomes more available.

[midas]

Can anyone give a definitive answer?

Why are there troops in Afghanistan and what are they hoping to achieve?

This is off topic but nevertheless a dam_n good question

I keep wondering how can there possibly be so many young soldiers risking their lives

who don't seem to be questioning why they are there and seeing through all the b*llshit ?

[midas]

Since the fifties people have been told they can buy whatever they want & just "charge it". Very destructive. Thailand is at the early stages of this right now as plastic becomes more available.

addiction to entitlements has negatively affected our society.

What Entitlement Spending Has Spawned

http://leftfieldperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/08/what-entitlement-spending-has-spawned.html

[snarky66]

Of course.FDR's policies & Lyndon Johnson polices were totally socialistic. Yet no one rang the alarm bells.

[koheesti]

Talk about too much power in the hands of a few - and these guys were never elected to anything.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/sandp-considering-first-downgrade-of-us-credit-rating/2011/08/05/gIQAqKeIxI_print.html

S&P's downgrade served as an indictment of the gridlock that sent the nation to the edge of defaulting on its debt obligations. It is also striking in part because it reflects the tremendous power of a small group of financial analysts employed by a New York company — part of McGraw-Hill. Credit-rating companies' reputations were sullied during the financial crisis.

I didn't see you complaining when S&P were downgrading the credit ratings of countries other than the USA.

Actually, I'm not complaining at all about the downgrade. If it wakes people up back in Washington (although I doubt it) maybe it'll be a good thing. It would be nice if they could try to fix the problem instead of worrying about getting re-elected.

Those who have been reading this thread since the beginning might remember several anti-Tea Party posts declaring it anti-democratic to have 70 or so duly elected Tea Party "members" in Congress determine whether or not the bill gets passed or not. I wonder how that poster feels about the control this small group of investors has?

BTW - I wonder why this historical news of the US being downgraded didn't rate its own thread in the World News forum? That seems odd.

Edited August 7, 2011 by koheesti

[uptheos]

Can anyone give a definitive answer?

Why are there troops in Afghanistan and what are they hoping to achieve?

This is off topic but nevertheless a dam_n good question

I keep wondering how can there possibly be so many young soldiers risking their lives

who don't seem to be questioning why they are there and seeing through all the b*llshit ?

Sorry it seemed off topic, but It was also meant to refer to the amount of finances that are being wasted and bringing all the troops home from wherever, will certainly cut spending. The USA surely must know it's time to put their own house in order now.

[snarky66]

Can anyone give a definitive answer?

Why are there troops in Afghanistan and what are they hoping to achieve?

This is off topic but nevertheless a dam_n good question

I keep wondering how can there possibly be so many young soldiers risking their lives

who don't seem to be questioning why they are there and seeing through all the b*llshit ?

Sorry it seemed off topic, but It was also meant to refer to the amount of finances that are being wasted and bringing all the troops home from wherever, will certainly cut spending. The USA surely must know it's time to put their own house in order now.

Have you thought about the effect bringing all those troops would have on unemployment?

By the way 9.1% unemployed......... the only way that's possible is if millions of jobs have been destroyed under mister obama & thus are no longer counted.....

The U6 unemployment rate is about 20% - the same as the great depression.

I also would like to wind up all the military adventures abroad. ALL. Korea. Japan. Germany. Iraq Afghanistan We can no longer afford it. No longer need the trip wire.

[koheesti]

Here's a good read - and it isn't even from a wingnut blog or tabloid! It goes into detail but fair-use means you have to read more yourselves.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100099762/america%E2%80%99s-debt-downgrade-is-a-damning-indictment-of-president-obama%E2%80%99s-big-government-disaster/

The decision by credit agency Standard and Poor's to downgrade America's AAA credit rating for the first time in 70 years is a massive blow to the credibility of the Obama administration, and a damning indictment of its handling of the economy. No doubt the White House will pathetically try to blame the Bush Administration, Republicans in Congress, and of course its favourite target, the Tea Party, for the move by S&P. But without a shadow of a doubt, responsibility for the country's financial mess and staggering levels of debt lie with the current US president and his administration. They have been in charge of running the economy for over 30 months, during which time the United States has witnessed an unprecedented increase in government spending and borrowing.

Edited August 7, 2011 by koheesti

[snarky66]

Well the Obama administration had no credibility with me from day one so this is not really news. But maybe after 2 years the shine is off the "historic" president.

[Jingthing]

Now back to the tea-free world of REALITY! --

Almost all of the blame goes to Bush, and the tea party nihilist radicals are making it much worse. Revenues! Need more revenues. The tea party has it completely wrong.

Read the link please. It pretty much voids ALL of the tea party propaganda posted here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/running-in-the-red-how-the-us-on-the-road-to-surplus-detoured-to-massive-debt/2011/04/28/AFFU7rNF_story.html

...

The biggest culprit, by far, has been an erosion of tax revenue triggered largely by two recessions and multiple rounds of tax cuts. Together, the economy and the tax bills enacted under former president George W. Bush, and to a lesser extent by President Obama, wiped out $6.3 trillion in anticipated revenue. That’s nearly half of the $12.7 trillion swing from projected surpluses to real debt. Federal tax collections now stand at their lowest level as a percentage of the economy in 60 years.

[koheesti]

Now back to the tea-free world of REALITY! --

Almost all of the blame goes to Bush, and the tea party nihilist radicals are making it much worse. Revenues! Need more revenues.

I'll ask for a third time - HOW will any additional revenues be used?

Edited August 7, 2011 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

Now back to the tea-free world of REALITY! --

Almost all of the blame goes to Bush, and the tea party nihilist radicals are making it much worse. Revenues! Need more revenues.

I'll ask for a third time - HOW will any additional revenues be used?

That's a baiting question. Do you imagine I am accountant and can give you precise percentages? Tea party are like children, many of them say nix all taxes. The point of the article is that this large problem would have not ever happened if Bush hadn't been so reckless with his crazy tax cuts. Now we are in a fix. Obviously spending needs to be limited and entitlements could be tweaked as well. Social security is a quick fix, simply raise the income cap on social security payroll tax up to 200K income. Defense needs cuts as well. In this critical economy, we do need more stimulus, intelligent stimulus, yes extended unemployment to relieve the suffering, I would suggest tax breaks for hiring ANYONE and even more for hiring those out of work for over one year (as they don't even get interviews now, and many will simply die if they don't get help soon). Plus invest in infrastructure as hard times are a smart time to do that, and it is badly needed. Then of course a significant portion to attack the debt. I can't say the exact percentage. Obviously the debt would be a priority, but as we might be slippping into a depression, there are other priorities as well. No I don't believe in supply side, that isn't taken seriously be mainstream economists. Keynesian economics is. I also think a crafty radical simplification of the tax code and brackets could be designed to increase revenues in such a way that the tax increase could go down easier, taxpayers would get a benefit of increased simplicity anyway, which is something.

Yes I understand there will always be a discussion about the level of the role of government that is needed, and in American politics democrats favor a larger role than republicans. That is normal and has often been beneficial. But now it has turned toxic and dysfunctional as these nihilistic right wing radicals favor destructive policies (and they REFUSE to compromise) that ultimately will kill millions of fellow Americans before their time, and they absurdly label Obama a socialist, when he is actually just moderate left with similar views to Robert Dole! You guys have gone so far right, you probably couldn't nominate Reagan these days, some of you would call HIM a socialist if you examined what he actually did.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[snarky66]

2 recessions. Someones reading comprehension is very very poor. FAIL.

[Jingthing]

2 recessions. Someones reading comprehension is very very poor. FAIL.

Both of those started under Bush. I see you didn't bother reading the linked article from that response.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

2 recessions. Someones reading comprehension is very very poor. FAIL.

Both of those started under Bush. I see you didn't bother reading the linked article from that response.

Two? Dates?

[Ulysses G.]

Now back to the tea-free world of REALITY! --

Almost all of the blame goes to Bush, and the tea party nihilist radicals are making it much worse.

Wrong. Barry has been in office for almost three years. He OWNS the economy and HE has made it much worse. Maybe Jimmy Carter was not so bad after all.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[craigt3365]

One "interesting" post has been removed.

[venturalaw]

That's a baiting question. Do you imagine I am accountant and can give you precise percentages? Tea party are like children, many of them say nix all taxes. The point of the article is that this large problem would have not ever happened if Bush hadn't been so reckless with his crazy tax cuts. Now we are in a fix.

Do you believe that the S&P downgrading of America's credit rating is also the result of Bush being "so reckless with his crazy tax cuts"? Well, you certainly are correct when you reject the concept of you being an accountant.

Edited August 8, 2011 by venturalaw

[Scott]

And I have noticed that for a thread so replete with political analysts, there is a shortage of economists to add to the mix.

Let's stay on topic and don't get personal with other posters.

[Steely Dan]

So let's get this right. The downgrade was caused by the Tea party refusing to rubber stamp Obama's never ending magical check book? What a crock! The ratings agencies are in the pockets of big government, if it wasn't so the U.S would be in far worse shape than AA+, that's for sure. And then we have an enormous $1 billion bet taken out before the downgrade that the downgrade would happen. Well how very convenient, especially considering Timmy Geithner used to work for Goldman Sachs, one of the companies large enough to put on such a bet. The wording of the downgrade was irrelevant, except for the purpose of letting the democrats throw mud at their opponents.

http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2011/08/out_of_curiosity_does_anyone_a.php

I believe what happened is a debt-ceiling deal was done in Washington and leaked to a major proprietary trader. Everyone knows the debt negotiations in Washington have been an extreme game of brinksmanship between political parties, but now someone knows how that game played out.

I'm sure the Romans would have approved of such deceit and decadence.

[hammered]

The US government has to find a way of increasing revenue. The harsh reality is that tax increases are the only likely way of achieving that, but that is politically difficult after the irresponsible years of propaganda that tax cuts were great. On the other hand to tell the public the truth, that the lifestyles they are accustomed to living are coming to an end is also difficult. Production and many services are exiting the western world. The western worlds own companies are investing outside the west (those nice corporate tax breaks help this). There are few states left that want to fund western governments excesses anymore. That all leaves a choice of pay more tax, cut the ridiculously high amounts spent on obsolescent (by the standards of modern warfare) military equipment and adventurism or see lifestyle plummet and social disharmony rise.

[snarky66]

Of course any politician would say "I'll fix this mess" when running for office. Sadly Barry's "fixes" have made the problem much much worse than it needed to be.

I wonder if the American people are fed up with "bail-outs" yet? $86 billion to A.I.G.? I wonder if that could happen again? Or would they let GM go through an orderly bankruptcy? Or say a firm that is not as heavily union as GM?

Both parties are to blame for TARP "too big to fail" etc.

[snarky66]

The US government has to find a way of increasing revenue. The harsh reality is that tax increases are the only likely way of achieving that, but that is politically difficult after the irresponsible years of propaganda that tax cuts were great. On the other hand to tell the public the truth, that the lifestyles they are accustomed to living are coming to an end is also difficult. Production and many services are exiting the western world. The western worlds own companies are investing outside the west (those nice corporate tax breaks help this). There are few states left that want to fund western governments excesses anymore. That all leaves a choice of pay more tax, cut the ridiculously high amounts spent on obsolescent (by the standards of modern warfare) military equipment and adventurism or see lifestyle plummet and social disharmony rise.

No there is a third path.

I'll bet we can find 500 billion to a trillion is waste fraud abuse & overlap.

We should close down many many federal agencies that do the same work as each other. We should stop funding pork barrel military weapons systems that the Joint Chiefs say "we don't want" but some Senator wants the contracts for his district. "REFORM" an overused word that rarely happens.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

It gets tiring hearing it was Bush , Obama did nothing wrong, or Bush did nothing wrong it's the other guys. It's not the republicans it the Democrats, It's not the democrats it the Republicans. no it's the Tea Party.

In my opinion they are all to blame and should be replaced, preferable with people with MBA's not lawyers. The sooner the better.