Chiang Mai'S Expats

[Drew Aitch]

Beware the Friends at First Sight!

Make no bones about it, there are indeed some odd characters in Thailand, me being one of them, but hey, at least I'm harmless, whereas many others are not. I would say make new friends by all means, but build those friendships up over time and with caution.

Anyone who's worked anywhere in the Kingdom, or run a business here will know what I'm talking about. You get to meet some pretty unsavoury foreigners here if you've ever been, or continue to be, running a company of any description. For some reason, Thailand seems to attract many undesirable types, crooks in disguise some of them!

I have a small circle of nice friends in CM, and a few more over in Bangers, but whenever I meet anyone new, I always view them as c*nts until they can prove themselves otherwise. After some of the god-awful encounters I've had here over the years with various expats, not Thais, this mindset keeps me safe

As a final tip, if you come across anyone who's still of working age, and when asked what they do to make a crust they come back with something like; "Oh, you know, a bit of this and a bit of that", my advice would be to avoid them like the frigging plague, no matter how charming they may seem!

Aitch

[Tywais]

One post removed for the following rule violation.

3) Not to post in a manner that is vulgar, obscene or profane .

[NancyL]

I understand how the OP has formulated his opinion on making decent friends here. I somewhat agree with him as I have experienced a number of one sided, self centered, shallow friendships here. One has to account for this by looking at the stereo type of male that has made Thailand his home--they were probably alone without friends back home--broken families--and didn't integrate well socially as well. On the other hand there are people who have social etiquette and would welcome you into their circle of friendship.One has to search for, and weed out those that are not "friends" material just like one would do in their native country. The problem is that there is less to choose from, and one has to search a little deeper to find individuals that one can call more than a casual friend. There are quite a number of well rounded, educated, social beings in this city--one just has to take a little initiative to find people that can sustain as a friend.What I have noticed here is that many expats really don't have the initiative to reciprocate when invited for a social event at another's home. Either they live in conditions that are not suitable for entertaining in groups, or that they are too lax in sponsoring a home social event, but they are delighted to participate when someone else organizes it.

Oh dear, now I feel guilty. I've been to a couple of your parties and just loved 'em, but I'm not certain we've invited you to our house. I've noticed we haven't been invited back to yours recently. Oops! We last had a party here in December 2009. You would have been invited, but I can't remember if you came. (My mother would be appalled; she kept logs about things like how many attended a party, what she served, etc) Our 35th wedding anniversary is coming at the end of the year and I'd like to do something nice and invite all our CM friends. There's no way they'd fit into our rental condo. It was very crowded in December 2009 and that was just a house-warming/Christmas party. That's part of the problem with home entertaining in CM. Whatever we do for our 35th will be done inside a commercial establishment. We just don't have the space.

Can't you just consider throwing fabulous home parties to be your hobby and not something where you expect others to reciprocate? True friends will help you in other ways.

[ARISTIDE]

wrong with them?

Nothing, just British

[Raindancer]

wrong with them?

Nothing, just British

Perhaps you would be so good to enlighten us on that comment.......Little puzzled by your remark.

Regards

[ikis]

nothing.

in over three years i've met mostly nice expats and have had nice time and conversations.

only couple of who i haven't liked very much, still harmless.

expats in chiang mai seem to be very relaxed and laid back, not crazy lunatics and weirdos you'll find from pattaya, bangkok, phuket etc.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I wish more people would enjoy a drink or two, and be able to have an informed conversation about football. I'd have a much better social life.

With people from so many different backgrounds and ages, there's really no single source of information or entertainment that people you come in contact with are likely to share. For example I know nothing about cricket or golf.

Edited August 3, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[millwall_fan]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Orita,

Sorry to hear you've not been able to meet your social and intellectual needs here, in this lovely city that we have experienced both as a single human being, and, thanks to a fortuitous singularity in a Bangkok subway under construction as our human life ebbed away, as a, mirabile dictu, resurrected human body containing both the formerly singular human's mind and soul, and the mind and soul of the dying Orangutan, Ur-Orang MDCMXLVII, whose physical body, sadly did not survive our transubstantiation.

In both forms we have found wonderful people, some of whom were farang, here who nourished us on every level except paying their fair share for meals in which we went-dutch, ranging from casual acquaintances with whom we could indulge in jawboning and slangwhanging, to life-long friends ... for this life.

We think Chiang Mai's expats are a vibrant community of mid-life-road-kill, professional pilgrims, bar-hounds, artists, humanitarians-with-a-purpose, creative maniacs, idle-rich, pursuers of ersatz nirvanas, beautiful dreamers, do-gooders-on-a-mission, romantics, predatory relics, young optimists, bums, intellectuals, drifters, sex-fiends, esoteric-hermetics, and alcoholics. Apologies if we left you out.

We've found the social life and friendships here we've wanted, and sometimes those we've needed. But, the want, and the need, they have waxed and waned, which seems, only natural.

We wonder: what did you risk while living here ? what did you dare ? what did you offer ? what did you share ?

We wonder if wondering, like breathing, is best not stopped, perhaps makes the world fresh, and we sincerely wish that you experience fresh, and suddenly find Chiang Mai a cornucopia of social delights (or, a smorgasbord, if you like).

If you leave Chiang Mai, neither you or Chiang Mai will ever be the same; we suspect that the experience of "sameness" in living in Chiang Mai is something we construct, not something we find.

best, ~o:37;

When I was a kid they used to call kids like you 'Billy-no-mates' OP!

I run a pub and i find 95% plus of my customers to be pleasant, friendly, decent folk.

As ThaiPauly alludes to earlier, you get out of life what you put into it.

The best comment on this thread deserves repeating. K. Orang37, you do have a certain way with words " Sorry to hear we have not been able to meet your social and intellectual needs here" !!!!

And how many of us could put our hands up and describe our selves as 'mid-life road kill'!!!!!! Wonderful stuff!!

[Raindancer]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Orita,

Sorry to hear you've not been able to meet your social and intellectual needs here, in this lovely city that we have experienced both as a single human being, and, thanks to a fortuitous singularity in a Bangkok subway under construction as our human life ebbed away, as a, mirabile dictu, resurrected human body containing both the formerly singular human's mind and soul, and the mind and soul of the dying Orangutan, Ur-Orang MDCMXLVII, whose physical body, sadly did not survive our transubstantiation.

In both forms we have found wonderful people, some of whom were farang, here who nourished us on every level except paying their fair share for meals in which we went-dutch, ranging from casual acquaintances with whom we could indulge in jawboning and slangwhanging, to life-long friends ... for this life.

We think Chiang Mai's expats are a vibrant community of mid-life-road-kill, professional pilgrims, bar-hounds, artists, humanitarians-with-a-purpose, creative maniacs, idle-rich, pursuers of ersatz nirvanas, beautiful dreamers, do-gooders-on-a-mission, romantics, predatory relics, young optimists, bums, intellectuals, drifters, sex-fiends, esoteric-hermetics, and alcoholics. Apologies if we left you out.

We've found the social life and friendships here we've wanted, and sometimes those we've needed. But, the want, and the need, they have waxed and waned, which seems, only natural.

We wonder: what did you risk while living here ? what did you dare ? what did you offer ? what did you share ?

We wonder if wondering, like breathing, is best not stopped, perhaps makes the world fresh, and we sincerely wish that you experience fresh, and suddenly find Chiang Mai a cornucopia of social delights (or, a smorgasbord, if you like).

If you leave Chiang Mai, neither you or Chiang Mai will ever be the same; we suspect that the experience of "sameness" in living in Chiang Mai is something we construct, not something we find.

best, ~o:37;

When I was a kid they used to call kids like you 'Billy-no-mates' OP!

I run a pub and i find 95% plus of my customers to be pleasant, friendly, decent folk.

As ThaiPauly alludes to earlier, you get out of life what you put into it.

The best comment on this thread deserves repeating. K. Orang37, you do have a certain way with words " Sorry to hear we have not been able to meet your social and intellectual needs here" !!!!

And how many of us could put our hands up and describe our selves as 'mid-life road kill'!!!!!! Wonderful stuff!!

That is a little unfair to condemn the Op without taking a pragmatic view of his statement. C'mom ..give the guy a break....maybe he has a point away from pub life where you as a host meet so many interesting characters and they are always on tap....so to speak.

Maybe a little latitude to understand someone who does not frequent pubs, bar life and Loi Khro Road might offer a simple understanding of those who appear to be isolated and looking for something above and above the bar crowd and Farang get togethers of the usual bar speak that is encountered whilst frequenting Farang friendly bars.. At least this is what I derive from the OP's question. C"mon Pedr ...you always appear to be a fair person....

[OlafStapleton]

Maybe a little latitude to understand someone who does not frequent pubs, bar life and Loi Khro Road might offer a simple understanding of those who appear to be isolated and looking for something above and above the bar crowd and Farang get togethers of the usual bar speak that is encountered whilst frequenting Farang friendly bars.. At least this is what I derive from the OP's question. C"mon Pedr ...you always appear to be a fair person....

You connect pubs with Loi Kroh

Seem like you connect people who use pub/bar to people who use prostitute in negative way

(also not sure using prostitute in Thailand negative, almost all normal man do like that)

Life everywhere in the world centre round pub of some description

You reject pub you reject life, you unlikely to have many friend.

Not only alcohol in pub, coffee, tea, soft drink, food also sold, live music in many Thai pub on evening.

Watch football, play pool, meet people to do other thing with.

Without pub 90% of recreation activities rejected.

Edited August 3, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[Tokay]

You have to look past all the gits who spend their time propped up in a bar and three sheets to the wind. Find people with real hobbies and not those who are just pissing what's left of their life away, which I may add, is their life and they have every right to do with it as they wish. Go try new things, you'll meet new people.

I've also lived in several countries do to my profession, and agree that Thailand is the most difficult to make new friends with decent expats. With that said, it is not impossible to find really good people here, you just have to look a little harder and often in different places.

[Ricardo]

"hostile, rude and unapproachable" ?

I suspect that all the best expats are too busy, posting eruditely or amusingly or philosophically or about pizza, here on TV !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think I just realized I'm a much nicer person in person than online. Just met a guy in a bar who's about to retire and looking at options, you know, Thailand vs Philippines, Chiang Mai vs Hua Hin and all that. Pretty standard newbie comments and questions; if this was online I may have burned him to the ground for no good reason. In person though it turned into a really nice conversation that was very appreciative of Chiang Mai and all the things that make it such a great place. To his credit he had a very positive attitude to life in general.

[goldenmonkey]

I think I just realized I'm a much nicer person in person than online. Just met a guy in a bar who's about to retire and looking at options, you know, Thailand vs Philippines, Chiang Mai vs Hua Hin and all that. Pretty standard newbie comments and questions; if this was online I may have burned him to the ground for no good reason. In person though it turned into a really nice conversation that was very appreciative of Chiang Mai and all the things that make it such a great place. To his credit he had a very positive attitude to life in general.

Yeah the main reasons behind that are imo

1, he made the experience unique with his character

2, the social pressure to be nice is higher live than online

3, live u see an instant reward for being nice, maybe he even buys u a drink - though u might have to pay for it later

[Beetlejuice]

I absolutely agree with the OP.

The farangs in Chiang Mai are just plain ole nasty and I try to avoid them.

From my experience they fall into certain categories:

1. They keep in with their own clicks.

2. Extremely dodgy and prefer to lurk about in the shadows and hope nobody notices them.

3. Recluses with severe personality disorders.

4. Consider themselves too high and mighty to be associated with other farangs.

5. Old, crumpy, cranky and unsociable.

6. Prefer to be considered as the one and only King farang and worshiped by all Thais. They do not feel comfortable with other farangs treading on their turf, taking all the glory away from them.

7. The Thai wanabes, who view all other farangs as intruders that are not worthy to be living in Thailand.

Best to avoid whenever possible, because they wont like you and you wont like them. Not worth even trying to smile and say a quick hello, because it doesn`t work, I`ve tried it.

Over my many years living here, I have found that the Americans, although the loudest, are the most sociable and more inclined to welcome you into their fold.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Brits are certainly the most unsociable and rudest farangs you're meet in Thailand. More inclined to give you that you're a piece of dog <deleted> stare or the invisible treatment.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[jdinasia]

I absolutely agree with the OP.

The farangs in Chiang Mai are just plain ole nasty and I try to avoid them.

From my experience they fall into certain categories:

1. They keep in with their own clicks.

2. Extremely dodgy and prefer to lurk about in the shadows and hope nobody notices them.

3. Recluses with severe personality disorders.

4. Consider themselves too high and mighty to be associated with other farangs.

5. Old, crumpy, cranky and unsociable.

6. Prefer to be considered as the one and only King farang and worshiped by all Thais. They do not feel comfortable with other farangs treading on their turf, taking all the glory away from them.

7. The Thai wanabes, who view all other farangs as intruders that are not worthy to be living in Thailand.

Best to avoid whenever possible, because they wont like you and you wont like them. Not worth even trying to smile and say a quick hello, because it doesn`t work, I`ve tried it.

Over my many years living here, I have found that the Americans, although the loudest, are the most sociable and more inclined to welcome you into their fold.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Brits are certainly the most unsociable and rudest farangs you're meet in Thailand. More inclined to give you that you're a piece of dog <deleted> stare or the invisible treatment.

which one (or more than one) of those categories best describes you?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think I just realized I'm a much nicer person in person than online. Just met a guy in a bar who's about to retire and looking at options, you know, Thailand vs Philippines, Chiang Mai vs Hua Hin and all that. Pretty standard newbie comments and questions; if this was online I may have burned him to the ground for no good reason. In person though it turned into a really nice conversation that was very appreciative of Chiang Mai and all the things that make it such a great place. To his credit he had a very positive attitude to life in general.

Yeah the main reasons behind that are imo

1, he made the experience unique with his character

2, the social pressure to be nice is higher live than online

3, live u see an instant reward for being nice, maybe he even buys u a drink - though u might have to pay for it later

He didn't buy me a drink, but there were girls on hand to peel watermelon seeds for me; that was good, too. I like watermelon seeds but the effort required to get to them is just insane.

Edited August 3, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

> 1. They keep in with their own clicks.

Cliques? Either way, why is that a problem?

> 2. Extremely dodgy and prefer to lurk about in the shadows and hope nobody notices them.

Not me; I hope somebody notices me, but I'm too average and well behaved.

> 3. Recluses with severe personality disorders.

Suan Prung Hospital has great meds for that.

> 4. Consider themselves too high and mighty to be associated with other farangs.

Again not really a concern.

> 5. Old, crumpy, cranky and unsociable.

Agreed, I hate old people too. I mean, <deleted>, your, like, 40, and still around. Dude.

> 6. Prefer to be considered as the one and only King farang and worshiped by all Thais.

> They do not feel comfortable with other farangs treading on their turf, taking all the glory away from them.

Seems a duplicate of Type 4.

> 7. The Thai wanabes, who view all other farangs as intruders that are not worthy to be living in Thailand.

Which would be true, yes.

> Over my many years living here, I have found that the Americans, although the loudest, are the

> most sociable and more inclined to welcome you into their fold.

Yes, because the American race is genetically more inclined to be sociable, and .. wait, what?

> At the other end of the spectrum, the Brits are certainly the most unsociable and

I think you just put yourself into one of the categories above!! Well done.

[Mapguy]

What's wrong with Chiang Mai Expats? Well, what's fine about them! Plenty. As many here have already suggested, it depends on personality, background and lifestyle.

It is unfortunate that a lot of people ( perhaps many ultimately lonely people) seem to settle in Thailand, including Chiang Mai, without understanding the country's reputation for "permissiveness." Some think they will somehow make a life nursing three pints (or bottles) a day on a very modest pension and run around in a singlet, shorts and sandals! There are also those who go over the precipice and marry a young Thai woman half their age, or invest in a pub until their capital is wasted away. Truly sad. What were they thinking ??!! Finally, there is quite a large gay community, perhaps attracted to the lady boys.

There are, however, also the managers of firms who have been assigned here. There are entrepreneurs, some working by internet, who have made a home here. There are happy cross-cultural marriages, and some are making their way successfully in local business, like Petr or Dave, the local kings of meat pies and hamburgers, or those dabbling in condominium real estate.

The thoughtful and intelligent expatriates here in Chiang Mai also include some interesting women. There are a few young ones, who usually are teachers (many of whom like to go clubbing), and retired women as well as wives who have emigrated with their husbands. I think it is probably true that you don't meet too many of them nursing pints (bottles, really) at Chiang Mai locals. There is also, of course, a sizable missionary colony as a well as non-governmental organisational people doing good works.

I suppose I should apologize to the pub crowd. Certainly many a pleasant evening can be spent that way, but there are other ways as well to settle in. Chiang Mai has many émigrés who have made different and happy choices other than parking in a pub every day. I suppose you'll have to meet them shopping at Rimping Market, perhaps in church, in a social club like Expats, or in a school (if they have children) or a language school, such as the AUA or YMCA.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Mapguy

[Beetlejuice]

> 1. They keep in with their own clicks.

Cliques? Either way, why is that a problem?

> 2. Extremely dodgy and prefer to lurk about in the shadows and hope nobody notices them.

Not me; I hope somebody notices me, but I'm too average and well behaved.

> 3. Recluses with severe personality disorders.

Suan Prung Hospital has great meds for that.

> 4. Consider themselves too high and mighty to be associated with other farangs.

Again not really a concern.

> 5. Old, crumpy, cranky and unsociable.

Agreed, I hate old people too. I mean, <deleted>, your, like, 40, and still around. Dude.

> 6. Prefer to be considered as the one and only King farang and worshiped by all Thais.

> They do not feel comfortable with other farangs treading on their turf, taking all the glory away from them.

Seems a duplicate of Type 4.

> 7. The Thai wanabes, who view all other farangs as intruders that are not worthy to be living in Thailand.

Which would be true, yes.

> Over my many years living here, I have found that the Americans, although the loudest, are the

> most sociable and more inclined to welcome you into their fold.

Yes, because the American race is genetically more inclined to be sociable, and .. wait, what?

> At the other end of the spectrum, the Brits are certainly the most unsociable and

I think you just put yourself into one of the categories above!! Well done.

I`m half American and half English.

Which means I can be nice and polite one minute and then suddenly turn nasty within a moment.

[OlafStapleton]

Finally, there is quite a large gay community, perhaps attracted to the lady boys.

Just to point out, men who like ladyboy not gay.

Gay want person look like like man but ladyboy look like woman so gay man not want..

Man want ladyboy variation on heterosexual (some say deviation)

Wanting ladyboy is trait acquired after come to Thailand, not know ladyboy before come here.

[likite]

Having lived here for nearly 7 years I have to agree with most of OP.

Like everywhere you get all sorts - good and bad. Here there seems to be higher proportion of the types mentioned. Many of the expats in my experience have emotional, mental and ego problems which are of course made more pronounced when you throw alcohol into the mix. Many simply should not be here as there is nothing they like about Thailand, and consequently whine to anybody who'll listen. Some have run away from the self same problems back home they come here and then thrust their problems/sad personalities onto others here.

I have made countless acquaintances here only to find after varying lengths of time a darker unhappy persona where a Jekyll and Hyde person emerges.

Insecurity is fairly common here (imho) and manifests itself into a false arrogance and an inflated ego that you'd laugh about back home.

Having said all that there are of course quite a few pleasant expats here who are "normal" and balanced but they do take some finding, after a while though you wonder whether its worth the time and effort to get a relationship going.

There are problems to living here and some cope better than others.

[trainman34014]

Finally, there is quite a large gay community, perhaps attracted to the lady boys.

Just to point out, men who like ladyboy not gay.

Gay want person look like like man but ladyboy look like woman so gay man not want..

Man want ladyboy variation on heterosexual (some say deviation)

Wanting ladyboy is trait acquired after come to Thailand, not know ladyboy before come here.

Last six words not particularly true; there are certain London Pubs they frequent, which has always given me a reason to drink elsewhere!

[Mestizo]

I wish more people would enjoy a drink or two, and be able to have an informed conversation about football. I'd have a much better social life.

Totally agree! Unfortunately, most people here can only talk about soccer, not football

-Mestizo

[Fishenough]

The farangs in Chiang Mai are just plain ole nasty and I try to avoid them.

From my experience they fall into certain categories:

1. They keep in with their own clicks.

2. Extremely dodgy and prefer to lurk about in the shadows and hope nobody notices them.

3. Recluses with severe personality disorders.

4. Consider themselves too high and mighty to be associated with other farangs.

5. Old, crumpy, cranky and unsociable.

6. Prefer to be considered as the one and only King farang and worshiped by all Thais. They do not feel comfortable with other farangs treading on their turf, taking all the glory away from them.

7. The Thai wanabes, who view all other farangs as intruders that are not worthy to be living in Thailand.

Best to avoid whenever possible, because they wont like you and you wont like them. Not worth even trying to smile and say a quick hello, because it doesn`t work, I`ve tried it.

Over my many years living here, I have found that the Americans, although the loudest, are the most sociable and more inclined to welcome you into their fold.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Brits are certainly the most unsociable and rudest farangs you're meet in Thailand. More inclined to give you that you're a piece of dog <deleted> stare or the invisible treatment.

Must live in a different city then you, or this is the case of the stories of the travelers whom meet a monk. Don't know any that fit in your categories; maybe a couple that are in group 3 though the disorders are interesting in there own way. lol:

Maybe the moat keeps these types in, and the rest live outside the walls................ Beetlejuice, it's best if you stay safe in the inner city.

[elektrified]

Finally, there is quite a large gay community, perhaps attracted to the lady boys.

Just to point out, men who like ladyboy not gay.

Gay want person look like like man but ladyboy look like woman so gay man not want..

Man want ladyboy variation on heterosexual (some say deviation)

Wanting ladyboy is trait acquired after come to Thailand, not know ladyboy before come here.

Take what this guy has to say with a grain of salt!

[changraider]

Like the OP I'm originally from Europe, and have spent the last 30 years living and working in various countries. I think the big difference between the countries that the OP refers to (America, Japan,Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore) and Chiang Mai is that in those other countries most of the expats are working (with the exception of Malaysia), often on lucrative contracts, whereas in CM most of the expats are retired. This obviously makes for all sorts of differences in lifestyle. Personally the thing I really enjoy about travelling is the experience of the local culture, so I usually avoid the expat scene. But we're all different (hopefully): some want to recreate their homeland, some want to "go native", and everything in between. Having said all that I think CM is great town, and the few expats I've got to know here are perfectly acceptable, ahem; as for 60% of posters on TV's News forum, well that's a different story;-)

[Okertes]

Chiang Mai state of mind = Mind your own business / Take it easy / Smile / Take a trip around / Shop / Eat / Drink / Motosai / Coffee / Dont be so GDmn serious

[MangoAndCo]

chiangmai is really a very nice place be it 10 years ago or now . there had been changes , and new people come old people die off . but over all it still a nice places .

on and off there is some bump and bumper . but all i can say the ART of making friends is really not an easy task to master .

all you need is a goods smile and an open mind and you are half way to a happier lifestyle any where

Living in CM for almost 1 1/2 yrs now and slowly making friendships. It takes time esp. since I do not go to bars or am interested in solely drinking buddies as I don't drink much. I find that meeting ppl. with similar interests or back rounds have been the best bet yet. I realize that just as back where I'm from ppl. are busy with their own lives. But it does seem that many are also quite afraid or unwilling to get acquainted, but that's up to them, maybe since there are some unsavory types here or perhaps they are just solitary etc. I've also get involved in my village and local temple (for the cultural and spiritual aspects while I still participate locally in the religion I was raised with) and try to never miss an event in my hood and often get invited to house blessing parties etc.. And even though I don't speak Thai, but I try and take lessons, I know lots of the locals, by shopping in our local market and stores. I don't expect it to be as easy as in my home country for many reasons, esp. not living in a moo ban, but I have no worries of making life lasting meaningful relationships here. Oh yeah, I smile at almost everyone I see walking down the street!

Beware the Friends at First Sight!

Make no bones about it, there are indeed some odd characters in Thailand, me being one of them, but hey, at least I'm harmless, whereas many others are not. I would say make new friends by all means, but build those friendships up over time and with caution.

Anyone who's worked anywhere in the Kingdom, or run a business here will know what I'm talking about. You get to meet some pretty unsavoury foreigners here if you've ever been, or continue to be, running a company of any description. For some reason, Thailand seems to attract many undesirable types, crooks in disguise some of them!

I have a small circle of nice friends in CM, and a few more over in Bangers, but whenever I meet anyone new, I always view them as c*nts until they can prove themselves otherwise. After some of the god-awful encounters I've had here over the years with various expats, not Thais, this mindset keeps me safe

As a final tip, if you come across anyone who's still of working age, and when asked what they do to make a crust they come back with something like; "Oh, you know, a bit of this and a bit of that", my advice would be to avoid them like the frigging plague, no matter how charming they may seem!

Aitch

The OP expresses what I have been thinking quite awhile. I have been living here for 1,5 years and the expats groups are just not for me (and I'm not a barfly). They know exactly how you should live and be, they can be very judgemental. Or very arrogant.

Real, long lasting contacts are not easy to make. Why? I haven't figured out yet, but one reason is... the many part time residents living in CM, people come and go, have no real attechment to the city. And the full time residents are being 'careful'.

Unlike Aitch: when I like people I like them, until proven otherwise. But I agree with Aitch...be aware.

I have 2 steady friends, both Thai and one living in BKK, but to feed my heart I still need to see my old social circle far away from Thailand.For now I decided not to mingle with short term stayers anymore, sad but true. But to find people my age (who are not teaching English ;-) is not easy either. I'll just keep doing my thing and when things aren't balancing out, I am thinking about going back to Chiang Rai or ... ?

I like CM, but the crowd is just different.

Well hell, I'll just paint 'til I faint...

[doji]

.......Having said all that I think CM is great town, and the few expats I've got to know here are perfectly acceptable, ahem;

same here

as for 60% of posters on TV's News forum, well that's a different story;-)

For me, make that just about 10% of posters here on TV ...I would like to actually meet over a cup of coffee for a nice conversation.

As for the rest....just a bunch of ignorant, chip on shoulder, many whoremonger also...completely a turn off