Chiang Mai'S Expats

[pete66]

Of course, a lot of "drunks on a budget" retire here because its cheaper than elsewhere in Thailand. I certainly noticed this was an "OAP haven" when I arrived. But just ignore them if they clearly don't want a conversation. They are pretty easy to spot, they are the smelly unshaven males carrying a bottle of Singha beer round at 10 am ..........

But its certainly not the "heat", "pollution", "traffic jams", "big-city stress". Its just people that for whatever reason, don't want to strike up a conversation. Let's face it, if you went back home, you wouldn't make eye contact with almost any of the people you are attempting to do so here. In any big city you expect to be "ignored" and "keep to yourself".

I'm always intrigued when farangs feel the need to reach out to other farangs here ..... I always put it down with them not being able to speak Thai, but I may be wrong.

Maybe we feel the need to reach out to other farangs because it's interesting to meet other people who made the jump and moved halfway across the world? Perhaps these people have fun stories, much like myself? I don't find it strange to want a little connection with a similar person. I think it's silly to think that's wrong.

Also, back home in America: yes, I do make eye contact and attempt to talk to people. I've spent years in San Francisco and a bit of time in New York and I could say people in those places struck me as friendlier than here in Chiang Mai. Just an observation.

I guess it could be blamed on the hangovers, then.

I understand, and back home, of course you want to talk to *some* people. But you have a great big choice right? You would choose people that you thought would have some kind of rapport with you. You would end up in places where you would meet people with similar interests. Over here, you have so much less choice, so you end up trying to strike up a conversation with serially drunk farang males.

Nothing wrong with that, just the chances of a "meeting of minds" are so much less. Welcome to Thailand

[Ulysses G.]

I've spent years in San Francisco and a bit of time in New York and I could say people in those places struck me as friendlier than here in Chiang Mai.

Most people in San Francisco avoid conversations with strangers on the street as they are usually either asking for money or crazy. I have a feeling that New York is the same, but, I would not say the same about Chiang Mai. In general, I have found people to be much friendlier here than most big cities in the West.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[dickyknee]

Maybe since the GFC the OP has witnessed the economic sieve go through the expat community. The young funloving outgoing ones have left, and the more mature exhibiting ongoing symptoms you would normally see about Christmas or tax-time back home.

[chaoyang]

Of course, a lot of "drunks on a budget" retire here because its cheaper than elsewhere in Thailand. I certainly noticed this was an "OAP haven" when I arrived. But just ignore them if they clearly don't want a conversation. They are pretty easy to spot, they are the smelly unshaven males carrying a bottle of Singha beer round at 10 am ..........

But its certainly not the "heat", "pollution", "traffic jams", "big-city stress". <snip>

Pete, I really do think the heat takes a toll. I don't mean this to be as cruel as it sounds, but look at how bent the Thais are: ) I think there is such a thing as jungle fever and I have seen people become unnerved and almost hallucinatory out in that sapping heat. Only after I was out of that climate for a while did I seem to get full energy and clarity back.

[canuckamuck]

I find it is hard to make friends here if you don't drink or enjoy bars.

[jdinasia]

Of course, a lot of "drunks on a budget" retire here because its cheaper than elsewhere in Thailand. I certainly noticed this was an "OAP haven" when I arrived. But just ignore them if they clearly don't want a conversation. They are pretty easy to spot, they are the smelly unshaven males carrying a bottle of Singha beer round at 10 am ..........

But its certainly not the "heat", "pollution", "traffic jams", "big-city stress". <snip>

Pete, I really do think the heat takes a toll. I don't mean this to be as cruel as it sounds, but look at how bent the Thais are: ) I think there is such a thing as jungle fever and I have seen people become unnerved and almost hallucinatory out in that sapping heat. Only after I was out of that climate for a while did I seem to get full energy and clarity back.

In Chiang Mai? I could see complaining about the burning season etc ... but it just isn't that hot here.

[Semper]

So what does the op think of all the replies he got? He is awfully quiet.

[msg362]

I'm the happiest, most normal ,friendly guy you could possibly meet in the whole wold and I live ( near) Chiang Mai. All of my friends are happy, well balanced, jovial friendly and generous people. Many of us are married to beautiful, intelligent adoring Thai women. We are all well off, living on the proceeds of the ( UK) state and are very content cooking Moo Grapao every evening. Have you not met us yet?

Seriously, don't talk such rubbish. CM is full, like every other city of the good, the bad and the ugly. Choose your friends with more care.

[NancyL]

I feel that I'm part of a wonderful, caring expat community surrounded by some expats who are "certifiably strange" and would be considered that way anywhere in the world. It's just that here they can live cheaply, surrounded by kind Thai people who overlook their shortcomings (personal hygiene, dress & manners). They can have their alcohol and sexual needs well satisfied cheaply. That's not the crowd I'm with. Not all western males over 60 are like this. My husband (of almost 35 years) has made some wonderful close friends among men of a similar background -- over 50, retired and living with a long-term western spouse.

One way to meet these type of people is to get involved with the Outside Group Activites of the CM Expats Club. Clubs focused on photography, travel, computers, board games, bridge, dining out, gardening, etc, etc. Many people involved with these OGAs don't attend the big monthly Expats Club meeting, but they've built their social network with these OGAs. There you can definitely have some meaningful conversations, especially if it's about something related to the club's focus. Just check out the OGA section of the expats club website.

[BillyBobThai]

Growing up in the southern U.S., the temperature there is as bad or worse, at times, that here. In my 8 years here in Thailand, I have only met a handful of people that I would see more than once.

[OlafStapleton]

I admit I don't discuss Shakespeare,

I think his best "Midsummer Night's Dream", find "Hamlet" overrated, but also enjoy "Julius Caesar"

The iambic pentameter is a little hard to get into at first.

[Throatwobbler]

So what does the op think of all the replies he got? He is awfully quiet.

Personally I think the OP is on a wind up. There are good people and idiots here as in all places. I have met both and choose to hang around the people that I think are good. Of course that definition will change according to each person. It doesn't take too much to meet people who you get along with. By the way I don't like football much so that does put me at a disadvantage.

[mamborobert]

I admit I don't discuss Shakespeare,

I think his best "Midsummer Night's Dream", find "Hamlet" overrated, but also enjoy "Julius Caesar"

The iambic pentameter is a little hard to get into at first.

Julius Caesar has a nice little bit to it that my father used to retlell to us as children as a moral more than anything.

Marc Antony recites "Ingratitude, more strong than traitors' arms, Quite vanquish'd him".......a stab by a friend becomes the "unkindest cut of all".

No matter what you do you always run the risk of being knifed (even by a friend), even when you have done a lot for them. Perhaps ancient Rome is not that ancient, or just Roman after all.

Which in turn brings back to the OP, you might in time develop a very few good freinds here, and that is true anywhere...after a small number you have good aquaintances rather than friends. Perhaps the expectation was too high in the first place....We are as Nancy has pointed out reflective more or less of other places, but with a few extremes permitted by the Thais and allowed by economics. Its a city not a retirement home (complete with happy pills). Given this maybe the OP has an unreaslitic view of retirement rather than Chiang Mai, and perhaps there is not enough "genuine" people to get him engaged, and that may be a problem anywhere in retirement. But if you are solely reliant on people for amusement or engagement you are going to have a problem anywhere. As it is there are more than enough other things to do in CM that are very enjoyable. I came here for Chiang Mai, not for the attraction of the expats.

[heybruce]

Interesting. Compared to the ex-pats I met in Central America the Chiang Mai ex-pats seem like normal, responsible people.

[bristolgeoff]

my experience with going to chiang mai over many years is the expats from all nations are friendly to each other.some have they own agenda,but all are friendly.i know they are many different bars from french spanish german etc,if you fall into on of those cats then you would go there if u wish.i speak english so i would go to a bar with english speaking bars.as i don,t speak other languages.even then other nations all seem to mix in chiang mai.maybe you upset some people in cm,i don,t know

[Mapguy]

OP has certainly stirred the waters!

Anytime you are in a place where you encounter so many people --- that is, "expats" --- from other continents, it is reasonable to expect disparate sorts, some quite odd, too many very odd. But not all.

If someone is still unhappy, concerned or is eager for some sort of inexpensive refuge to join fellow "post-colonials," I suggest Belize, or the less expensive places in Spain or on various islands in warm climes, not here. It is not very cheap here, really, unless you are really slumming it. You can do that if you like, but you might wish to read about the fate of some who do, such as the bloke in Pattaya who was looking for paradise in the land of smiles. That is a dramatic example, of course, but Chiang Mai is only as immune from the arrival and settlement of that sort of person as the slight increase of air fare.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Mapguy

[richard10365]

Troll

[moe666]

The OP must have met all of the expats from France. Or was it New York City

[kevbap]

Orita,

Avoid the farangs and stick to the Thais. That's what I do.

Nice reply Orita, its what i do as much as possible, love the Thai people up here more than anywhere else in Thailand.

Nice post by the op, he sounds like a total loser ! get out of CM if you dont like it !

one less whingeing bugger to encounter !

[ThaiPauly]

A traveller was walking down a road towards a town when he came across a monk walking in the opposite direction.

"What are people like in the town you have just come from?" he asked the monk

The monk said "what were the people like in the town you have just come from?"

The man replied, "oh they were a miserable bunch, mean spirited, unfreindly, and did not make me feel welcome at all"

"well replied the monk, I think you will find them pretty much the same as where you have come from"

The monk continued his journey and came accross another traveller on the road who asked him the same question after waing him and putting some food in his alms bowl

"Revered monk please tell me what are the people like in the town you have just come from" asked the traveller.

The monk responded with the same qusetion. " Well you very generous man, what were the people like in the town you have just left?"

"Oh they were wonderful people, could not do enough for me, made me feel very welcome and shared everything they had with me, I could not have wished to meet nicer people"

"Well said the monk, I think you will find them pretty much the same as where you have just come from"

For me this sums up life wherever you choose to call home, you only get out as much as you put in, if you are freindly and generous to people, the likelihood is they will be friendly and generous towards you, in Chaing Mai, or anywhere else

[shepsel]

I understand how the OP has formulated his opinion on making decent friends here. I somewhat agree with him as I have experienced a number of one sided, self centered, shallow friendships here. One has to account for this by looking at the stereo type of male that has made Thailand his home--they were probably alone without friends back home--broken families--and didn't integrate well socially as well. On the other hand there are people who have social etiquette and would welcome you into their circle of friendship.One has to search for, and weed out those that are not "friends" material just like one would do in their native country. The problem is that there is less to choose from, and one has to search a little deeper to find individuals that one can call more than a casual friend. There are quite a number of well rounded, educated, social beings in this city--one just has to take a little initiative to find people that can sustain as a friend.What I have noticed here is that many expats really don't have the initiative to reciprocate when invited for a social event at another's home. Either they live in conditions that are not suitable for entertaining in groups, or that they are too lax in sponsoring a home social event, but they are delighted to participate when someone else organizes it.

[OlafStapleton]

I understand how the OP has formulated his opinion on making decent friends here. I somewhat agree with him as I have experienced a number of one sided, self centered, shallow friendships here. One has to account for this by looking at the stereo type of male that has made Thailand his home--they were probably alone without friends back home--broken families--and didn't integrate well socially as well. On the other hand there are people who have social etiquette and would welcome you into their circle of friendship.One has to search for, and weed out those that are not "friends" material just like one would do in their native country. The problem is that there is less to choose from, and one has to search a little deeper to find individuals that one can call more than a casual friend. There are quite a number of well rounded, educated, social beings in this city--one just has to take a little initiative to find people that can sustain as a friend.What I have noticed here is that many expats really don't have the initiative to reciprocate when invited for a social event at another's home. Either they live in conditions that are not suitable for entertaining in groups, or that they are too lax in sponsoring a home social event, but they are delighted to participate when someone else organizes it.

Do you suggest divorced men (50% of all married men) or uneducated men are not capable to be friend with anyone?

Sound like it to me!

Social event in someone home, boring, boring, boring (same CM expat club).

Not Thai style (unless hi-so with Chinese style university educated Thai wife or stuck with baggage from home country) In Thailand you go out with friend, Mo-Ga-Ta, etc.

Of course, ex-pat enclave post colonial person, not want go anywhere might meet real Thai person, to scary.

Edited August 2, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[GUANO]

is OlafStapleton any relation to Mcnaughty?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A traveller was walking down a road towards a town when he came across a monk walking in the opposite direction.

"What are people like in the town you have just come from?" he asked the monk

The monk said "what were the people like in the town you have just come from?"

The man replied, "oh they were a miserable bunch, mean spirited, unfreindly, and did not make me feel welcome at all"

"well replied the monk, I think you will find them pretty much the same as where you have come from"

The monk continued his journey and came accross another traveller on the road who asked him the same question after waing him and putting some food in his alms bowl

"Revered monk please tell me what are the people like in the town you have just come from" asked the traveller.

The monk responded with the same qusetion. " Well you very generous man, what were the people like in the town you have just left?"

"Oh they were wonderful people, could not do enough for me, made me feel very welcome and shared everything they had with me, I could not have wished to meet nicer people"

"Well said the monk, I think you will find them pretty much the same as where you have just come from"

++++++++++++++++1 !

[Ta22]

chiangmai is really a very nice place be it 10 years ago or now . there had been changes , and new people come old people die off . but over all it still a nice places .

on and off there is some bump and bumper . but all i can say the ART of making friends is really not an easy task to master .

all you need is a goods smile and an open mind and you are half way to a happier lifestyle any where

[Lobo4819]

Interesting thoughts from most of you. From having lived in several other countries as well, I find this discussion invariably comes up from some of the expats regardless of the location.

We all moved here for different reasons, most not so we could spend a disproportionate amount of our time with the same folks from our countries of origin, although there are exceptions.

When we get down to the expats here in Thailand, they come in several flavors. First is tourist, and most don't want or need to spend a lot of time with that category. Next, we have to remember that not all who come here are model citizens, and it is difficult to tell them from the good guys at first glance. Also, there are language and cultural barriers, even among the expat population. Any or all of the above could be reasons why some are reluctant to bond quickly – and many of us have various types of scars, including lower bank balances, from some of those encounters.

After a certain number of years, some of us have learned to appreciate friendship as a well-aged wine, and many are either reluctant to go quickly into new friendships and/or are quite comfortable in their current day-to-day. To each his own.

Personally, I don't go out of my way to find farang. I am happy with my life and interactions the way they are currently, but I don't ever NOT return a smile or a friendly greeting. I do, however, have a Bu*&$#it meter that is very finely tuned, hardly ever wrong, and goes off a lot here.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Lobo4819

[Semper]

Interesting thoughts from most of you. From having lived in several other countries as well, I find this discussion invariably comes up from some of the expats regardless of the location.

We all moved here for different reasons, most not so we could spend a disproportionate amount of our time with the same folks from our countries of origin, although there are exceptions.

When we get down to the expats here in Thailand, they come in several flavors. First is tourist, and most don't want or need to spend a lot of time with that category. Next, we have to remember that not all who come here are model citizens, and it is difficult to tell them from the good guys at first glance. Also, there are language and cultural barriers, even among the expat population. Any or all of the above could be reasons why some are reluctant to bond quickly – and many of us have various types of scars, including lower bank balances, from some of those encounters.

After a certain number of years, some of us have learned to appreciate friendship as a well-aged wine, and many are either reluctant to go quickly into new friendships and/or are quite comfortable in their current day-to-day. To each his own.

Personally, I don't go out of my way to find farang. I am happy with my life and interactions the way they are currently, but I don't ever NOT return a smile or a friendly greeting. I do, however, have a Bu*&$#it meter that is very finely tuned, hardly ever wrong, and goes off a lot here.

Do you have some problems with your space bar?

[chaoyang]

A traveller was walking down a road towards a town when he came across a monk walking in the opposite direction.

"What are people like in the town you have just come from?" he asked the monk

The monk said "what were the people like in the town you have just come from?"

The man replied, "oh they were a miserable bunch, mean spirited, unfreindly, and did not make me feel welcome at all"

"well replied the monk, I think you will find them pretty much the same as where you have come from"

The monk continued his journey and came accross another traveller on the road who asked him the same question after waing him and putting some food in his alms bowl

"Revered monk please tell me what are the people like in the town you have just come from" asked the traveller.

The monk responded with the same qusetion. " Well you very generous man, what were the people like in the town you have just left?"

"Oh they were wonderful people, could not do enough for me, made me feel very welcome and shared everything they had with me, I could not have wished to meet nicer people"

"Well said the monk, I think you will find them pretty much the same as where you have just come from"

For me this sums up life wherever you choose to call home, you only get out as much as you put in, if you are freindly and generous to people, the likelihood is they will be friendly and generous towards you, in Chaing Mai, or anywhere else

But what did he say about the place that had six dogs barking day and night?

[junglechef]

Living in CM for almost 1 1/2 yrs now and slowly making friendships. It takes time esp. since I do not go to bars or am interested in solely drinking buddies as I don't drink much. I find that meeting ppl. with similar interests or back rounds have been the best bet yet. I realize that just as back where I'm from ppl. are busy with their own lives. But it does seem that many are also quite afraid or unwilling to get acquainted, but that's up to them, maybe since there are some unsavory types here or perhaps they are just solitary etc. I've also get involved in my village and local temple (for the cultural and spiritual aspects while I still participate locally in the religion I was raised with) and try to never miss an event in my hood and often get invited to house blessing parties etc.. And even though I don't speak Thai, but I try and take lessons, I know lots of the locals, by shopping in our local market and stores. I don't expect it to be as easy as in my home country for many reasons, esp. not living in a moo ban, but I have no worries of making life lasting meaningful relationships here. Oh yeah, I smile at almost everyone I see walking down the street!

[kevbap]

Orita,

Avoid the farangs and stick to the Thais. That's what I do.

Nice reply Orita, its what i do as much as possible, love the Thai people up here more than anywhere else in Thailand.

Nice post by the op, he sounds like a total loser ! get out of CM if you dont like it !

one less whingeing bugger to encounter !

there must be 2 Orita's here, one happy the other totally peed off?

sorry got cut off, dodgy electric in the countryside/jungle when it rains !