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Is Thailand's Low English Proficiency A Barrier To Economic Expansion?


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STREET WISE

English proficiency or attitudes: what are the true barriers?

By Achara Deboonme

The Nation

Is Thailand's low English proficiency a barrier to economic expansion?

That was a tough question from a young Thai man who graduated from a university in Sydney.

He asked that question because he is the only one on a eight-person team who has to cover English-related stuff for their magazine.

Statistically, the right answer is "yes". Studies show that in a society where over 90 per cent are literate, few are fluent in English.

Many universities are correcting this by demanding their undergraduate and graduate students to submit their theses in English.

But how can you force someone who doesn't know English to write in the language? Eventually, that requirement just gave extra work to those with a good command of the foreign language.

Given that I was also contacted for help, it's true that many English-language theses are completed by these people, not the students themselves.

That does not surprise me. In my university days, only English majors took more than 60 credits (20 courses) of English.

Those minoring in English did one-third of that. Others, if they didn't bother, had to take two compulsory courses and some were even exempted from the basic courses.

When they became sophomores, all that knowledge gathered during high school withered away.

A friend from Hong Kong said that in all the schools there, students are encouraged to express their opinions in English or even talk with friends in the language.

China, on course to become the global economic leader, is making English compulsory up to the undergraduate level.

As we have observed, not all of them are fluent. But there's a difference here. Many Chinese do not give in easily, and they force themselves to speak English.

Singaporeans are the same. Though criticised for their "Singlish" accent, they don't mind as long as they can communicate in the language. And so far, so good.

Thus, to the question at the beginning, I may have to add that "attitudes" could also be an equally important barrier.

Thais are rather shy, overly self-conscious. They are afraid of making mistakes. If any foreigner corrects their pronunciation of a word, their face reddens and giggling follows.

Some learn well enough to improve themselves with the first mistake, others cannot overcome the feeling. Some cannot pronounce that particular word correctly for years.

Years before, making headlines in Thai newspapers were huge foreign investment projects. That has disappeared for some time. We blame it on political instability, but some foreign companies - particularly those in the service sector - also put the blame on the lack of human resources with English skills.

Now, big investments are flowing elsewhere. Many players in the service sector go to Singapore to cash in on the high quality talent.

Many are also going to China because of the same reason, not just because it is a big economy with nearly 1.4 billion consumers.

Thailand is now home to over 100 international schools, but most of their students come from rich families and tend to start their own business or work at multinational companies upon graduation.

With rich family backgrounds, they pursue executive positions, not those at the operating level. Over time, Thailand would become attractive only to manufacturing plants, which can get by with a lack of English-speaking workers.

No matter how green they are committed to being, manufacturing activities cannot be as green as those of service-related industries.

It would be nice if we can reset attitudes. With the right ones, Thai workers' English should improve. Only then can we expect continued prosperity for our beloved nation.

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-- The Nation 2011-08-08

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Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

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Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

A friend of my wifes went to work in the "University of life" in Pattaya and did not speak a word of English,two years down the line she came back with her new farang husband and speaks excellent English ,I wonder if there is a message there somewhere!!
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Actually, there are many positions available in good, middle-class jobs which require a bit of English- but which are perenially understaffed or partially staffed because of lack of qualified candidates, at least at the salary levels offered. This is one of the reasons that, recently anyway, more Burmese, Indians, and Cambodians are getting hired in service positions (often, ironically, for slightly higher salaries than offered to the non-English-fluent Thais at the same jobs). Often to keep a good Thai English speaker he/she has to be promoted up to stratospheric salary levels, while continuing to do all the English related work at all levels of the company (including for salesmen, marketing, etc.).

Sufficient fluency for business or economic expansion, as the opening article states, is currently the province in Thailand of only the very rich. But as the article also hints, this is not the only way to run a country (cf. Singapore, etc.).

One thing I find lacking in the OP analysis is that while Thai attitude is partly blamed (and Chinese attitude extolled)- whether or not that is fair- this transformation is an economic one as well... Money must be put into the system to make it work. And those who wish to see Thailand develop will not get their wish while they remain in such denial, or refuse to ante up. Another factor is that not all who have the power to make such decisions may wish Thailand to head in that direction.

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Actually, there are many positions available in good, middle-class jobs which require a bit of English- but which are perenially understaffed or partially staffed because of lack of qualified candidates, at least at the salary levels offered.

The problem is that the general Thai population isn't qualified to take up 'good middle class jobs' because they don't have the necessary education. 'Faces to the mud, backs to the sky' was never a suitable entry on your CV. I sponsored some kids in a village outside of Khon Kaen = bright as a button - smart as whips - destined to be buffalo boys for the rest of their lives.

It's not the people who have access to education that are the problem. It's the bright kids hidden away in villages that never get exposed to a decent education who are depriving Prathet Thai of its potential.

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If one accepts that English is the languge of the international business world, then without trying to state the obvious...of course the inability to communicate in English is a barrier.... doesn't take a doctoral thesis to figure that one out....:whistling:

Agree with "edure" on this...... editorial <deleted>

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Actually, there are many positions available in good, middle-class jobs which require a bit of English- but which are perenially understaffed or partially staffed because of lack of qualified candidates, at least at the salary levels offered.

The problem is that the general Thai population isn't qualified to take up 'good middle class jobs' because they don't have the necessary education. 'Faces to the mud, backs to the sky' was never a suitable entry on your CV. I sponsored some kids in a village outside of Khon Kaen = bright as a button - smart as whips - destined to be buffalo boys for the rest of their lives.

It's not the people who have access to education that are the problem. It's the bright kids hidden away in villages that never get exposed to a decent education who are depriving Prathet Thai of its potential.

This is undoubtedly one of the biggest issues. There should be more scholarships offered by private schools. einstein could be sitting in Kalasin, and he will never every get the chances that are needed.

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Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

The headline is "English proficiency or attitudes: what are the true barriers?" The writer goes for most of her piece to talk about students writing their thesis in English. Is this the only place where English is used? No, in fact Thesis writing in English is a very tiny area of where English is used. Everyday conversation surely makes up a very high percentage of where English is used whether in social or business environments, and it's the main area to facilitate economic development. Writing of proposals, business reports etc., also is of course also on the list of English needs.

The headline is followed by a question: "Is Thailand's low English proficiency a barrier to economic expansion?" But their is no attempt in the article to to make any comment related to this question.

Additionally, the 4 English skills will never develop with the current methodologies and focus used in Thai schools and in many universities.

I was part of the Bangkok recruitment team to hire high potential graduates for an international management consulting company for many years.

I can't count the number of times we went through the same situation:

- CV says - English A.

- Attempt to talk to the candidate in English, and there's nothing more than My name is .... spoken like a robot. To other questions there is no response whatever because the candidate does not understand the question, at all.

- "You were told in advance that this job requires an advanced level of spoken and written english, because you will need to regularly interact at a professional level with international clients and with staff from the other company offices in Asia and at times staff from Europe, etc".

Response: "But that's not fair' I have an A for English in my transcript". Followed by appeals to the Thai members of the recruit team for a reversal of company policy, plus severe annoyance when my Thai colleagues just reinforce what I have already said.

In one large consulting project (with a large successful Thai company) there was a module for English development. The CEO asked me to guide the HR manager to get the English classes started.

The Thai (female) HR manager hired the most expensive school, laid down all sorts of rules about expensive suits and neckties for the farang teachers, demanded that every lesson be prepared on PowerPoint slides and demanded that the school send a team of at least three support staff with the farang teacher for every lesson and one had to sit at the laptop and click for the next slide and the teacher was not allowed to do this.

HR manager also dictated where the teacher had to stand, etc. Another member of the teacher's support team had to take pictures of every class which were published on the company intranet and were presented (in printed blown up form) to the CEO after every lesson

Totally over the top focus on presentation.

The final stroke, the HR manager made it very clear that the teacher could not ask the students to answer questions or make them actually speak any English, because they might be embarrassed.

In fact it was the final straw for the CEO who was already very unhappy about the overall work of the HR manager and he had the HR manager dismissed and appointed a team of 4 staff at mid level (no managers) to reorganize the whole set up and to focus on listening and speaking skills. The committee were keen to do exactly what the CEO dictated and in the new set up the students willingly opened their mouths and started to speak and develop some real skills.

Edited by scorecard
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It's not the people who have access to education that are the problem. It's the bright kids hidden away in villages that never get exposed to a decent education who are depriving Prathet Thai of its potential.

This is undoubtedly one of the biggest issues. There should be more scholarships offered by private schools. einstein could be sitting in Kalasin, and he will never every get the chances that are needed.

Well, ain't it ever so... not just in Thailand. I remember my father saying that the Aboriginal kids he went to school with in Western Australia after the First World War were as bright as buttons, but they never got the opportunity to fulfil their potential.

There are some who break through nevertheless. This man, Dr Nisai Kaewsanchai, learnt English as a child by carrying tourists' bags from the Kanjanaburi railway station. Scholarships followed - to Bangkok and then to the States where he did his doctorate.

On a trip to Angkor a few years ago I was very impressed with the English ability of some of the children selling things there. Not just formula English, but the ability to have a creative conversation. I hope they can use it well for their future.

Thirayuth Boonmi is another example of a poor boy made good as a result of his academic ability and strength of character.

It happens, but Thai at Heart and endure are right nevertheless.

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It all depends on the period one lives in. Yes English was THE language in the period of the 1950's to 1990's. However, the ascending languages are now variants of Chinese and Spanish. There was a time when anyone of importance in the sciences had a rudimentary knowledge of German and French. Those languages were pushed aside in favour of English as the importance of the USA grew. Now, the countries of the UK, USA and to a lesser extent, Canada and Australia that once served as incubators of initiative and innovation have seen their importance diminish. The booming Spanish and Chinese language consumer groups are what is driving the market now. In the USA, if one wants to trade the most important demographic group, one had best learn spanish. If one wants to transact with the Chinese, one had best have some understanding of one of the Chinese dialects.

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It's not the people who have access to education that are the problem. It's the bright kids hidden away in villages that never get exposed to a decent education who are depriving Prathet Thai of its potential.

This is undoubtedly one of the biggest issues. There should be more scholarships offered by private schools. einstein could be sitting in Kalasin, and he will never every get the chances that are needed.

Well, ain't it ever so... not just in Thailand. I remember my father saying that the Aboriginal kids he went to school with in Western Australia after the First World War were as bright as buttons, but they never got the opportunity to fulfil their potential.

There are some who break through nevertheless. This man, Dr Nisai Kaewsanchai, learnt English as a child by carrying tourists' bags from the Kanjanaburi railway station. Scholarships followed - to Bangkok and then to the States where he did his doctorate.

On a trip to Angkor a few years ago I was very impressed with the English ability of some of the children selling things there. Not just formula English, but the ability to have a creative conversation. I hope they can use it well for their future.

Thirayuth Boonmi is another example of a poor boy made good as a result of his academic ability and strength of character.

It happens, but Thai at Heart and endure are right nevertheless.

I am always intrigued to see how quickly South Korea has developed. Having some very good friends who are Korean, the first thing that is obvious is that the country has a very high respect for academic excellence, and companies realise the value of having smart well trained employees.

It was explained to me that the chaebols have enormous scholarship programs to identify talented kids from anywhere in the country, sponsor them through university in Korea or the US as required to give them the skills to have them contribute to the country. We can argue about the level of freedom of thought in Asian education, but Korean schools are famous for their discipline.

I met a bloke in Korea who had just returned from the US, having completed his sponsored doctorate in Physics in the US and was now working for Samsung at a very high level on a salary that would be considered very high for Thailand. The company had seen the value in maximising its people. Now back to Thailand, and the lack of venture capital, scholarships, respect for education all add up to keeping Thailand back. Where are the CP or AIS sponsored university programs? What is the next big growth industry for Thailand?

Where is the Thai Samsung or Sony, Posco or Hyundai heavy industry? Funny how in mainland Chinese business circles, they ask the same question. They make stuff, but are struggling to establish global trustworthy brangs. But is the reason because Chinese business has never got a foot in Korean or Chinese society, but they basically run Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines? Does keeping it in the family contribute to making it difficult to raising the wealth of the country as a whole?

Edited by Thai at Heart
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On a trip to Angkor a few years ago I was very impressed with the English ability of some of the children selling things there. Not just formula English, but the ability to have a creative conversation. I hope they can use it well for their future.

The same thing occured to me as well on my first visit there, some of the youngsters could converse in Khmer, English, French and Thai..!!!

One guy I was talking to in his mid 20's seemed very comfortable jumping between Khmer, speaking English to me and Thai to Mrs Soutpeel...and then to cap it all, he said his father only spoke french, so he was fluent in french as well.....very impressed

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It all depends on the period one lives in. Yes English was THE language in the period of the 1950's to 1990's. However, the ascending languages are now variants of Chinese and Spanish. There was a time when anyone of importance in the sciences had a rudimentary knowledge of German and French. Those languages were pushed aside in favour of English as the importance of the USA grew. Now, the countries of the UK, USA and to a lesser extent, Canada and Australia that once served as incubators of initiative and innovation have seen their importance diminish. The booming Spanish and Chinese language consumer groups are what is driving the market now. In the USA, if one wants to trade the most important demographic group, one had best learn spanish. If one wants to transact with the Chinese, one had best have some understanding of one of the Chinese dialects.

To some extent true, but there's another point in regard to China. The world at large is not aware that massive numbers of Chinese are learning the 4 English skills and the methodologies applied in the kindergartens, primary and high schools, by language schools etc., brings fast and quality results.

If you talk to a group of high school kids in Shanghai (ask some directions etc.) you will often be quite surprised at the quality of their listening and speaking skills and the confidence to open their mouths and say something. There are many other Chinese cities where you can have the same experience, the new industrial cities in the south of China are also examples of this (Shenzen, etc) (China is of course more than Shanghai and some big cities)

That doesn't negate the need to have numerous other 'cultural awareness' skills to be able to do business with Chinese business men, and at least a few basic words of Chinese (and more) are very important.

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Thai children are exposed to english in school for a number of years but how much do they learn, very little as most expats and visitors know. But send that girl or boy to Bangkok or Pattaya with instruction to send money home in a few months they are fairly proficient. They now have a reason to learn.

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To most Thais Thailand is the world...they feel they will never interact much with other countries, especially western countries. So, why learn English? Besides none of the Thai soap operas are in English.

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I have been teaching English in Thailand now for almost 11 years and would like to put my 2 cents in;

One of the problems with the education system when it comes to learning English is the "Old" Thai teachers and their "old" ways. I am not prejudice about anyone but until Thailand can rid these "old school" teachers there is little hope.

When I teach to Thai's even in the provinces where there is maybe 0.15% of the students that can speak ANY English at all, I could NOT teach English if I could not speak Thai. Most private language schools frown on this as do government schools but they must get over this crap and if a teacher CAN speak some Thai then let them if it makes it more fun for a student or saves endless hours of using flash cards etc to get one already lost point across in 2 seconds buy just explaining it to them in Thai. One thing I have noticed which helps is that most Thai students can at least read and write English to some extent due to the "old school" Thai teachers ramming GRAMMAR down their throats.

Anyways, in my opinion the number 1 problem with Thai's learning English I have already mentioned: GRAMMAR GRAMMAR GRAMMAR !!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus man, not even us farangs liked learning grammar. Grammar is the most boring thing in the world to anyone unless they are studying to be a Linguistics analysis or something.

Until Thailand can invest money into hiring more foreign English teachers, paying even a HALF decent salary and cutting out all the crap that comes along with hiring decent teachers, ESL just won't happen in Thailand.

All this crap about having to have a degree to get a work permit, and the visa issues etc is just that, CRAP. I know many teachers who do NOT have a degree but are exceptional English teachers because they have social skills and are more likely to want to actually help a Thai learn English rather then some degree barring professor that couldn't teach a kid how to say a sentence in English.

What good is a teacher who has a Masters Degree in English Linguistics and comes with 15 years experience teaching in America if he can't sit on the floor with Thai kids and sing a song or just be a "REAL" person.

I have seen these types of teachers and if a poor kid says something like " Are you come from Canada?" the dam_n teacher goes into a big lecture on how grammar states that "a present tense verb cannot be used as a direct or in-direct progressive tense adverb that will contradict the past tense conjunction with a future tense noun" <deleted> !!!!!!!!!!! Just tell the poor kid that "Its better to say "Do you come from Canada."

Forget the Grammar in grade school and just let these poor students learn how to SPEAK English and to have fun while doing it. After these kids have gone through 5+ years of having Grammar shoved down their throats and are about as bored as a person can get with English, do you actually thing they are looking forward to learning from a foreign teacher who they think is probably going to shove more grammar down their throats?

Our jobs as English teachers are half beaten by the time they dump us into a school in Issan and give us 25k per month to teach English AND put up with all the crap about Degrees, Work permits, visas etc.

I do have respect for the older Thai teacher BUT until Thailand changes the way the upcoming teachers teach English and as the older teachers fade away, there just isn't a chance. In my opinion the ways to get Thailand up to par with English is as follows:

Get rid of the old teachers and give them a great retirement package for their years of service and dedication (not just 40k baht)

Drop all the crap about having to have a bloody degree to get a WP, visa etc.

Pay a decent salary to expat teachers so we can actually live here comfortably.

NO MORE dam_n GRAMMAR !!!!!!!!!

Get the Foreign Degree holding professors to work with the Thai Government Educational System and let US make the curriculum NOT follow Thai Government Curriculum. (US meaning "we all" not United States haha.)

Hold yearly International Teachers Conventions to get more suggestions how other 3rd world countries have educated their children and for us teachers to give our input.

Of course this will all take money but until the Thai Government invests in this then Thailand will always be the loses country for English and yes it is.

Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam etc are all supposed to be 3rd world countries and Thailand is the "Developing Country?" So why can all these other countries speak English and Thailand still cannot?

dam_n now that I think of it, put ME in charge. I'll have em all speaking proper Thaingrish within one decade.

PS: The only government that has ever invested (and started) in English programs such as the MEP, Bi-lingual, International schools etc is the one we have back in NOW.

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To most Thais Thailand is the world...they feel they will never interact much with other countries, especially western countries. So, why learn English? Besides none of the Thai soap operas are in English.

Here here!!!! Completely agree, and this is the fundamental problem!!! Thai's have an ethnocentric view of the world, and that is the fundamental problem.

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I wonder if Thailand will actually make an English standard. How the hell can you have in the same school a Fhillipino teacher mark British spelling wrong and a British teacher mark an exam wrong because he taught it as British English and the kid it in American lingo. But at least they can speak English, not like some local English teachers here, can not speak English. whistling.gif go figure.

Edited by haveaniceday
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we all need to remember that an enormous amount of lip service is paid to education here in Thailand,

Education is a dangerous weapon in the hands on the masses.

Do we really think or actually believe that the powers that be are going to scuttle their own boats by actually implementing a decent educational system?

As Doc W states there is no interest in the older Thai teachers to implement a change in their sinecures, grammar Nazi's the lot of them. The aim should be basic understandable communication skills and bugger grammar

I remember one of our boys coming home from school and complaining that his teacher had told him, "you think too much you know too much English it is not good for you." the boy along with his two brothers have an English-speaker father , me,( Hastings U.K. born) hence English is used at home as much as is Thai, Lao and Khmer along with a smattering of Mandarin by the boys when they don't want their mum and me to know what is in the wind.

The children are the victims of the system, they're not lazy.

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If things don't change they will stay the same. There are so many aspects within Thai society that would need to change before Thailand could have an honest chance of competing with other asian countries.

Starting with the Education system, then moving past the face saving phylosophy of none failure, which has to be an even bigger handycap than bad education, if you don't know your wrong, how do you improve?

But as with most societies it is allways the priviledged few who go on to take the best jobs. So Thailand is no different than any other country. But it will get left behind at some stage because of it's myopic view.

One thought which is totaly selfish, I for one won't complain if Thailand stay's the same, If Thailand had the same standards of living as the west (which it could well do) Then the Baht would get stronger and I thing few farangs could afford to live here, as everything would cost as it does in the west. It may take a few years but eventually Thailand will wake up to the reality that they are still the poor kid on the block. In more ways than one.

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Thai children are exposed to english in school for a number of years but how much do they learn, very little as most expats and visitors know. But send that girl or boy to Bangkok or Pattaya with instruction to send money home in a few months they are fairly proficient. They now have a reason to learn.

Thai kids do learn some basics at government schools but here's a twist.

One of the kids in my extended family, Prathom 1 level, goes to a very good bi-lingual school in a full English stream. Her construction and her spoken English is already quite good.

Her cousin goes to a Thai government school, Prathom 1, approx. 50 kids in the classroom, She has a small amount of English homework once a week, and it's very simplistic. Her mother got some of the text books and homework books (used by the first kid) copied and gave it to the government school teacher. Teacher's angry reaction (teacher can't speak any English), it's all wrong, and she threw it all in the garbage.

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It all depends on the period one lives in. Yes English was THE language in the period of the 1950's to 1990's. However, the ascending languages are now variants of Chinese and Spanish. There was a time when anyone of importance in the sciences had a rudimentary knowledge of German and French. Those languages were pushed aside in favour of English as the importance of the USA grew. Now, the countries of the UK, USA and to a lesser extent, Canada and Australia that once served as incubators of initiative and innovation have seen their importance diminish. The booming Spanish and Chinese language consumer groups are what is driving the market now. In the USA, if one wants to trade the most important demographic group, one had best learn spanish. If one wants to transact with the Chinese, one had best have some understanding of one of the Chinese dialects.

I think that the difference between the rise of English as the international language, and the time when German and French were thought of that way , is the rise of the internet, and its use of English for the vast majority of its pages. I think that it had a huge impact in perception, in a relatively short span of time (20 years), that cannot be discounted.

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Two questions.

1. What proportion of the Thai population expect to receive an education that requires them to complete a thesis? (or even know what a thesis is).

2. Of what use is a command of English to those who don't meet that requirement?

It's about time that some of these writers of editorial <deleted> actually joined the real world that's occupied by the majority of the Thai population.

:thumbsup:

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On a trip to Angkor a few years ago I was very impressed with the English ability of some of the children selling things there. Not just formula English, but the ability to have a creative conversation. I hope they can use it well for their future.

The same thing occured to me as well on my first visit there, some of the youngsters could converse in Khmer, English, French and Thai..!!!

One guy I was talking to in his mid 20's seemed very comfortable jumping between Khmer, speaking English to me and Thai to Mrs Soutpeel...and then to cap it all, he said his father only spoke french, so he was fluent in french as well.....very impressed

I was equally impressed on my visits to Siem Reap. One huge difference appears to be a recognition that learning English will give you an advantage in life (maybe even a necessity) - in my experience the Thais do not view things the same way.

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Putting aside all those issues regarding education quality, lack of problem solving skills, etc., low English proficiency is an absolute show-stopper for economic development. But, if there is a lack of creative thinking, it is with policy makers who do not see low English proficiency as a national crisis. Perhaps they believe Thailand will create all it's own wealth and development within its own borders and culture and solve all its problems with home-grown solutions. That's where the real problems lie, with leaders and policy. Again, lack of English proficiency is a national emergency for Thailand.

Very simply, as long as a Thais speak, read, and understand only Thai language, they are "doomed" to a Thai-only future. Someone who speaks only Thai can only succeed Thailand...they can't go to the US, Europe, Hong Kong, China, Russia, etc. But, an English-speaking person can go anywhere and do or learn anything. Anyone doing business outside of Thailand is conducting business in English - period.

It's a national emergency in Thailand, not that temple on the border with Cambodia.

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low English proficiency is an absolute show-stopper for economic development.

Not sure about that after all the Japan turned into a ecomonic powerhouse, although their English proficiency is not a bad as Thailand IMHO, its not the best either, but they managed to pull it off.

More importantly its creative thinking, ingenuity, the will to suceed and problem solving rather than the language which is spoken which leads to ecomonic development

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