Exactly How _Is_ The Air Quality In Chiang Mai ?

[Latindancer]

I'm thinking of relocating to Chiang Mai as I've visited there and it's big enough to be interesting but small enough that you can escape easily to the mountains.

I've heard that the air quality at certain times of the year is pretty horrible.....when farmers in the mountains and surrounding fields burn off the remains of crops. When is this ? And how long does it last for ? When it happens, how bad is it ? I'm not sure how you would gauge it though.........

[KhunDave]

The worst of it happens between mid-February and early April. Some years are worse than others - this year there was almost no issue with smoke due to un-seasonal rains. When it is bad it can be very bad though, and if you have any kind of medical condition which could be aggravated by polution you should think seriously about whether the area is for you. Do a search of the Chiang Mai forum and you will find heaps of detail about the problem.

[craigt3365]

I think we will do better with this in the CM forum. OK?

Topic Moved.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Why? KhunDave already answered it. All we're going to do here is add banter & strife, quantity over quality.

So on that note, let's get on with that then:

Only thing I could add is to suggest to the OP to visit in Mid March or so and see how he finds it.

( Some people complain 24/7 starting already in February and only really stop when they can start complaining about rain. Other people don't even notice it. )

Edited August 9, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Berkshire]

The worst of it happens between mid-February and early April. Some years are worse than others - this year there was almost no issue with smoke due to un-seasonal rains. When it is bad it can be very bad though, and if you have any kind of medical condition which could be aggravated by polution you should think seriously about whether the area is for you. Do a search of the Chiang Mai forum and you will find heaps of detail about the problem.

Pretty accurate. Air is good now, but it's been raining practically every day. Could be a problem certain times of the year if you spend a lot of time outdoors. I can recall maybe one year out of about ten when it was particularly bad, and that was due to additional smoke coming from the northern regions.

[chiang mai]

The worst of it happens between mid-February and early April. Some years are worse than others - this year there was almost no issue with smoke due to un-seasonal rains. When it is bad it can be very bad though, and if you have any kind of medical condition which could be aggravated by polution you should think seriously about whether the area is for you. Do a search of the Chiang Mai forum and you will find heaps of detail about the problem.

Pretty accurate. Air is good now, but it's been raining practically every day. Could be a problem certain times of the year if you spend a lot of time outdoors. I can recall maybe one year out of about ten when it was particularly bad, and that was due to additional smoke coming from the northern regions.

In all the years of debate on this subject and the many thousands of posts dedicated to it, I have come to believe that the majority of the problem is caused by air currents that bring in imported pollution from northern parts and from Southern China, the satellite photo's of the region during peak burning season seem to support this notion. The point to be understood here is that CM's pollution problem is not generated entirely by and in CM province hence the year on year variables are substantial.

[anselpixel]

In 2010, I had to have steroids to keep my lungs from swelling out of my body. By the end of March, I had retreated to the seaside.

In 2011, air quality has been superb all year.

There is no simple answer.

[LJW]

The thing I notice about the bad weather is that it has only been happening for a few years.

I figure it is possible for it to stop

It does not ever bother me, but some folks claim it is killing them and everyone else.

[happyrobert]

There is no substitute for sea breezes wafting through your house from the beach. Windows open 24/7 here.

[Ulysses G.]

( Some people complain 24/7 starting already in February and only really stop when they can start complaining about rain. Other people don't even notice it. )

Agreed. It bothers some people and does not bother others, but we would be better off without it for sure.

[Latindancer]

Sorry to have started this thread without doing a search.... I should have known it would already be an issue for some people. Interesting that there is conjecture that it comes from North....even from as far as China.

Ok......II shall research the issue via searching previous threads.. I don't currently have respiratory issues but I hate smoke.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Latindancer

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Sorry to have started this thread without doing a search.... I should have known it would already be an issue for some people. Interesting that there is conjecture that it comes from North....even from as far as China.

Ok......II shall research the issue via searching previous threads.. I don't currently have respiratory issues but I hate smoke.

It's haze, not smoke. If you get a very local source, like some idiot neighbour burning leaves then you'd smell smoke. This haze stuff doesn't smell like smoke, it's mostly just very bad visibility. You can't see the mountain until you're almost on top of it.

[thrilled]

if your in good health go for it.If ya have alergies,or ashma ,ya might think twice. could feel my lungs tightening up just walking off the plane.

[naboo]

It looks like fog and I find myself with a sore throat and susceptible to infections during the month of March. I'm sure its not good for my health at that time of year.

The rest of the year there are no obvious issues. Ideall, I'd leave Chiang Mai during March due to the pollution.

[craigt3365]

Sorry to have started this thread without doing a search.... I should have known it would already be an issue for some people. Interesting that there is conjecture that it comes from North....even from as far as China.

Ok......II shall research the issue via searching previous threads.. I don't currently have respiratory issues but I hate smoke.

It's haze, not smoke. If you get a very local source, like some idiot neighbour burning leaves then you'd smell smoke. This haze stuff doesn't smell like smoke, it's mostly just very bad visibility. You can't see the mountain until you're almost on top of it.

We live about 1/2 KM from the beach, south of Pattaya. It gets really hazy here also. And you can smell the smoke when they burn around here. I remember driving back from the airport earlier this year and was amazed at all the hillsides being burned...even though it is illegal!!

Even down south, they are having problems. The smoke is coming up from Indonesia.

[LJW]

Sorry to have started this thread without doing a search.... I should have known it would already be an issue for some people. Interesting that there is conjecture that it comes from North....even from as far as China.

Ok......II shall research the issue via searching previous threads.. I don't currently have respiratory issues but I hate smoke.

It's haze, not smoke. If you get a very local source, like some idiot neighbour burning leaves then you'd smell smoke. This haze stuff doesn't smell like smoke, it's mostly just very bad visibility. You can't see the mountain until you're almost on top of it.

We live about 1/2 KM from the beach, south of Pattaya. It gets really hazy here also. And you can smell the smoke when they burn around here. I remember driving back from the airport earlier this year and was amazed at all the hillsides being burned...even though it is illegal!!

Even down south, they are having problems. The smoke is coming up from Indonesia.

By my count, they have had the Borneo Smoke since 1996

[happyrobert]

Sorry to have started this thread without doing a search.... I should have known it would already be an issue for some people. Interesting that there is conjecture that it comes from North....even from as far as China.

Ok......II shall research the issue via searching previous threads.. I don't currently have respiratory issues but I hate smoke.

It's haze, not smoke. If you get a very local source, like some idiot neighbour burning leaves then you'd smell smoke. This haze stuff doesn't smell like smoke, it's mostly just very bad visibility. You can't see the mountain until you're almost on top of it.

We live about 1/2 KM from the beach, south of Pattaya. It gets really hazy here also. And you can smell the smoke when they burn around here. I remember driving back from the airport earlier this year and was amazed at all the hillsides being burned...even though it is illegal!!

Even down south, they are having problems. The smoke is coming up from Indonesia.

In America, we have had Smokey the Bear for 50 years, as our "don't burn" mascot.

What do they have as a mascot in Thailand? (Gotta have hands to wave and hold the shovel)

[craigt3365]

In the US, they also have strong enforcement. In my Mom's home town, you can only burn on certain days of the week and have to apply in advance for a permit. Plus, have to have a hose nearby and the burn has to be constantly monitored. If you don't do this, it's a huge fine.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

In America, we have had Smokey the Bear for 50 years, as our "don't burn" mascot.

What do they have as a mascot in Thailand? (Gotta have hands to wave and hold the shovel)

I would like to vote for Khwannie the Khwai. (Khwan (ควัน) as in smoke)

[happyrobert]

In America, we have had Smokey the Bear for 50 years, as our "don't burn" mascot.

What do they have as a mascot in Thailand? (Gotta have hands to wave and hold the shovel)

I would like to vote for Khwannie the Khwai. (Khwan (ควัน) as in smoke)

Not bad. Quite clever, actually.

But do you see a problem down the road when the ladies tell their farangs that they need money for the veterinarian as Khwannie has sufferred from smoke inhalation in his valient efforts at fighting fires?

[virtualtraveller]

It's a great pity that in recent years Chiang Mai has gotten this unfair reputation for poor air quality, as if it's all their fault. I wish people would stop going on about it!

To put things in perspective; for 9 months of the year the PM10 index (ie parts per million of sub 10 micron particles that lodge in you lung membrane causing damage) averages 50. The acceptable limit is 100. On a regular day in Din Daeng in Bangkok is measures about 80. Sit in a outdoor noodle shop besides a busy road in Phuket, say, and you're exposed to 100 or more. Live besides an unsealed road in Isarn and it could be 150 if there is regular traffic. In short, you could be exposed to dangerous levels every single day as you commute in Bangkok, walking to and from the skytrain.

Chiang Mai experiences 100+ days about 20 times a year, mostly occurring in March. During this time, those who can, go on holiday or stay indoors. On some unfortunate days in the past it's reached 200+, that becomes a major health hazard. Regrettably the local officials don't have the will to deal with it strongly, or take the problem seriously which is the main factor in exasperating Chiang Mai's reputation. Partly it's because the hotel association lobby the mayor not to declare an emergency (empowering officials to get tough) because they believe it will scare tourists away. The last chronic year was 2008 I think, in 2011 there wasn't a single 100+ day in March, because of unseasonal rain.

The causes are partly man-made, partly geographic/climatic. You can't blame a poor farmer for burning his field in an hour as opposed to weeding it in a week. This occurs the world over in rural areas and is natural, burning occurs across the country throughout the year. In March in the North there is no wind to disperse it, and Chiang Mai is in a valley that traps the smog. It's no different from the smog of a big city like Bangkok. Furthermore the air conditions are just right to contribute to the problem since its dry enough to burn, but not humid enough to bind the particles. Similar problems occur in Singapore resulting from burning in Aceh, they can do nothing about it.

So, there you have it. Luckily most TV readers live in a house with air conditioning to deal with the problem for a few weeks of the year, the rest of the time Chiang Mai has one of the most agreeable climates and safest living environments in the country.

[jonwilly]

Mid Feb to end of March is worst time.

I suffer badly.

Out of say the seven or eight folk I know well only one other has the problem with the air quality.

For last two years I have gone away Cha Am to prevent the problem affecting me.

Prior to 2008 I was aware of the problem and from my condo could look down and see the Pollution cloud over CM.

My doctor confirms the high particle count early in year.

This time of year No Problem.

john

[Mapguy]

Sorry to have started this thread without doing a search.... I should have known it would already be an issue for some people. Interesting that there is conjecture that it comes from North....even from as far as China.

Ok......II shall research the issue via searching previous threads.. I don't currently have respiratory issues but I hate smoke.

It's haze, not smoke. If you get a very local source, like some idiot neighbour burning leaves then you'd smell smoke. This haze stuff doesn't smell like smoke, it's mostly just very bad visibility. You can't see the mountain until you're almost on top of it.

Thailand_Air_Quality_2010.pdf

[chiang mai]

Sorry to have started this thread without doing a search.... I should have known it would already be an issue for some people. Interesting that there is conjecture that it comes from North....even from as far as China.

Ok......II shall research the issue via searching previous threads.. I don't currently have respiratory issues but I hate smoke.

It's haze, not smoke. If you get a very local source, like some idiot neighbour burning leaves then you'd smell smoke. This haze stuff doesn't smell like smoke, it's mostly just very bad visibility. You can't see the mountain until you're almost on top of it.

That's a nifty little report Mapguy, should be made compulsory reading for everyone contemplating moving to the North so they can make informed decisions.

[ROMANOBA]

I have lived in Chiangmai for 7 years now.yes, the problem is serious in the summer months, but generally speaking I find the climate heavy and exhausting all year round,with the exception of december to mid february.Everytime I go for holiday to any sea location in Thailand I feel better, more focused and less tired.My conclusion is that the climate in Chiagmai is NOT invigorating me, so I decided to move to the Chonburi/Rayong area, which has in my eyes a better climate.But if it were not for the climate Chiangmai would without any doubt be the BEST place to live in Thailland.Think about the fact that when there is no wind or rain, air in Chiangmai is quite polluted , even in the winter time.

It depends of course how much the climate affects your general condition, everybody is different, and I know who feel strong and healthy even through the terribla and superpolluted summermonths.

[chiang mai]

It's a great pity that in recent years Chiang Mai has gotten this unfair reputation for poor air quality, as if it's all their fault. I wish people would stop going on about it!

To put things in perspective; for 9 months of the year the PM10 index (ie parts per million of sub 10 micron particles that lodge in you lung membrane causing damage) averages 50. The acceptable limit is 100. On a regular day in Din Daeng in Bangkok is measures about 80. Sit in a outdoor noodle shop besides a busy road in Phuket, say, and you're exposed to 100 or more. Live besides an unsealed road in Isarn and it could be 150 if there is regular traffic. In short, you could be exposed to dangerous levels every single day as you commute in Bangkok, walking to and from the skytrain.

Chiang Mai experiences 100+ days about 20 times a year, mostly occurring in March. During this time, those who can, go on holiday or stay indoors. On some unfortunate days in the past it's reached 200+, that becomes a major health hazard. Regrettably the local officials don't have the will to deal with it strongly, or take the problem seriously which is the main factor in exasperating Chiang Mai's reputation. Partly it's because the hotel association lobby the mayor not to declare an emergency (empowering officials to get tough) because they believe it will scare tourists away. The last chronic year was 2008 I think, in 2011 there wasn't a single 100+ day in March, because of unseasonal rain.

The causes are partly man-made, partly geographic/climatic. You can't blame a poor farmer for burning his field in an hour as opposed to weeding it in a week. This occurs the world over in rural areas and is natural, burning occurs across the country throughout the year. In March in the North there is no wind to disperse it, and Chiang Mai is in a valley that traps the smog. It's no different from the smog of a big city like Bangkok. Furthermore the air conditions are just right to contribute to the problem since its dry enough to burn, but not humid enough to bind the particles. Similar problems occur in Singapore resulting from burning in Aceh, they can do nothing about it.

So, there you have it. Luckily most TV readers live in a house with air conditioning to deal with the problem for a few weeks of the year, the rest of the time Chiang Mai has one of the most agreeable climates and safest living environments in the country.

And to further put things in perspective:

"State of the air: PM10 is a significant pollutant in Thailand. In 2008, the maximum of the average daily

PM10 exceeded the daily standard in the Central, Northeastern and Northern regions. Among the

provinces in Saraburi and Samut Prakarn in the Central region exceeded the annual standard. The

provinces with PM10 pollution problems are Saraburi, Ratchaburi, Samut Prakarn and Ayutthaya

(Central), Nakhon Ratchasima (Northeast), Lampang and Chiang Mai (North) because they had high

percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard. In addition to PM10, O3 is

potentially becoming a problem".

[Priceless]

And to further put things in perspective:

"State of the air: PM10 is a significant pollutant in Thailand. In 2008, the maximum of the average daily

PM10 exceeded the daily standard in the Central, Northeastern and Northern regions. Among the

provinces in Saraburi and Samut Prakarn in the Central region exceeded the annual standard. The

provinces with PM10 pollution problems are Saraburi, Ratchaburi, Samut Prakarn and Ayutthaya

(Central), Nakhon Ratchasima (Northeast), Lampang and Chiang Mai (North) because they had high

percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard. In addition to PM10, O3 is

potentially becoming a problem".

Have you got a source for this? I personally find the text rather amusing since it supposedly concerns 2008. In that year the average daily pollution level in Chiang Mai was 38.4 µg/m³, to be compared with the Pollution Control Department's limit of 50 µg/m³. The "high percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard" was 0.819%, as there were only three such days that year (6^th, 7^th and 24^th of March).

It so happens that 2008, in both these respects, was the best year on record. I personally suspect that the present year (2011) will turn out even better, but that of course remains to be seen.

/ Priceless

[chiang mai]

And to further put things in perspective:

"State of the air: PM10 is a significant pollutant in Thailand. In 2008, the maximum of the average daily

PM10 exceeded the daily standard in the Central, Northeastern and Northern regions. Among the

provinces in Saraburi and Samut Prakarn in the Central region exceeded the annual standard. The

provinces with PM10 pollution problems are Saraburi, Ratchaburi, Samut Prakarn and Ayutthaya

(Central), Nakhon Ratchasima (Northeast), Lampang and Chiang Mai (North) because they had high

percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard. In addition to PM10, O3 is

potentially becoming a problem".

Have you got a source for this? I personally find the text rather amusing since it supposedly concerns 2008. In that year the average daily pollution level in Chiang Mai was 38.4 µg/m³, to be compared with the Pollution Control Department's limit of 50 µg/m³. The "high percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard" was 0.819%, as there were only three such days that year (6^th, 7^th and 24^th of March).

It so happens that 2008, in both these respects, was the best year on record. I personally suspect that the present year (2011) will turn out even better, but that of course remains to be seen.

/ Priceless

Look in Post #23 above, Mapguy's attachment and read the summary at the end.

[Priceless]

And to further put things in perspective:

"State of the air: PM10 is a significant pollutant in Thailand. In 2008, the maximum of the average daily

PM10 exceeded the daily standard in the Central, Northeastern and Northern regions. Among the

provinces in Saraburi and Samut Prakarn in the Central region exceeded the annual standard. The

provinces with PM10 pollution problems are Saraburi, Ratchaburi, Samut Prakarn and Ayutthaya

(Central), Nakhon Ratchasima (Northeast), Lampang and Chiang Mai (North) because they had high

percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard. In addition to PM10, O3 is

potentially becoming a problem".

Have you got a source for this? I personally find the text rather amusing since it supposedly concerns 2008. In that year the average daily pollution level in Chiang Mai was 38.4 µg/m³, to be compared with the Pollution Control Department's limit of 50 µg/m³. The "high percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard" was 0.819%, as there were only three such days that year (6^th, 7^th and 24^th of March).

It so happens that 2008, in both these respects, was the best year on record. I personally suspect that the present year (2011) will turn out even better, but that of course remains to be seen.

/ Priceless

Look in Post #23 above, Mapguy's attachment and read the summary at the end.

Thank you. Your quote is then quite correct, however the document you're quoting from is not. I have read it before, and discarded it as rather full of obvious errors. I'll give one more example in addition to the one about air quality in Chiang Mai from my previous post:

According to the report, the location of pollution measuring stations looks as follows:

Just looking at the Upper North, I immediately miss the stations in Lamphun, Nan, Payao and Phrae that were all operational for the full year 2010. There are probably others missing as well, but my main interest is in the North.

/ Priceless

[chiang mai]

And to further put things in perspective:

"State of the air: PM10 is a significant pollutant in Thailand. In 2008, the maximum of the average daily

PM10 exceeded the daily standard in the Central, Northeastern and Northern regions. Among the

provinces in Saraburi and Samut Prakarn in the Central region exceeded the annual standard. The

provinces with PM10 pollution problems are Saraburi, Ratchaburi, Samut Prakarn and Ayutthaya

(Central), Nakhon Ratchasima (Northeast), Lampang and Chiang Mai (North) because they had high

percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard. In addition to PM10, O3 is

potentially becoming a problem".

Have you got a source for this? I personally find the text rather amusing since it supposedly concerns 2008. In that year the average daily pollution level in Chiang Mai was 38.4 µg/m³, to be compared with the Pollution Control Department's limit of 50 µg/m³. The "high percentage of days when the PM10 level exceeded the daily standard" was 0.819%, as there were only three such days that year (6^th, 7^th and 24^th of March).

It so happens that 2008, in both these respects, was the best year on record. I personally suspect that the present year (2011) will turn out even better, but that of course remains to be seen.

/ Priceless

Look in Post #23 above, Mapguy's attachment and read the summary at the end.

Thank you. Your quote is then quite correct, however the document you're quoting from is not. I have read it before, and discarded it as rather full of obvious errors. I'll give one more example in addition to the one about air quality in Chiang Mai from my previous post:

According to the report, the location of pollution measuring stations looks as follows:

Just looking at the Upper North, I immediately miss the stations in Lamphun, Nan, Payao and Phrae that were all operational for the full year 2010. There are probably others missing as well, but my main interest is in the North.

/ Priceless

I am bound to agree that some of the wording in the report leaves much to be desired and the one that caught my eye was, when referring to the size of Thailand, "Its land area is slightly over 500,000 square kilometers, almost about the same land area as France and Spain" - France OR Spain would make sense but as it stands it does not. Anyway, pedantic I hear you say, possibly.

But on the subject of monitoring stations and their alleged omission from the map: I see that Dr. Vanisa Surapipith of the Thailand Pollution Control Department (PCD)was the Thai representative who "provided information, technical research support and advice" to the report, do we suppose he doesn't know the extent of the monitoring stations that are deployed or do we treat the alleged omission in the same context as my example above, a bit of sloppy report writing where the authors got the key answers right but failed on presentation, dunno.