Nokia Dieing Slowly

[lennois]

I had a play with the 800 today was quite impressed. They are late to the game but I think they have the foundation for a great OS in 7.5. It really struck me as fresh the same way as iphone first did. Whether they can get devs interested in them to start producing some decent apps is another matter.

Are you in Thailand wellred? Wouldn't mind picking up the 800 myself

[lomatopo]

It seems unusual that Nokia or Orange are not releasing specific sales figures for the Lumia 800, other than to say it outsold the 5800 and N95, or to say that 50% of the Lumia 800 pre-orders got a free X-Box. I mean if it is so successful just share the sales figures.

Microsoft is also a bit shy about sharing WP7.5 sales figures.

I think Nokia and Microsoft will be able to get into 3rd place eventually, there should be enough low-end/emerging market for them. Taking market share away from established suppliers is incredibly challenging and costly. It's not at all like the "greenfield" the iPhone and Android have created and captured.

[KRS1]

I dont like smartphones because they're too big.

My trusty old 3k baht Nokia C2 does everything i need it to - calls, text, music,radio,video, camera, calculator, internet, GPS and probably a few other features i never use...

If someone can enlighten me to the advantage of using a smartphone, id like to know why they are better.

[MJo]

It seems unusual that Nokia or Orange are not releasing specific sales figures for the Lumia 800, other than to say it outsold the 5800 and N95, or to say that 50% of the Lumia 800 pre-orders got a free X-Box. I mean if it is so successful just share the sales figures.

Microsoft is also a bit shy about sharing WP7.5 sales figures.

I think Nokia and Microsoft will be able to get into 3rd place eventually, there should be enough low-end/emerging market for them. Taking market share away from established suppliers is incredibly challenging and costly. It's not at all like the "greenfield" the iPhone and Android have created and captured.

It's hard to say what you mean of third place? You are talking about the high end of high end where latest iPhone is? Or are you talking about smart phone OS market shares? Or sales volumes for high end, low end, mid range or overall?

Fact is that Nokia is the ultimate established supplier, their supply chain set-up has always been their strong point and the reason why they have dominated the market. And still do if you look overall volumes. And that is the question, when the balance is tipped again. iPhone is getting old concept already with no real new innovation in past few models. Android has been rising but does not really offer anything that other don't have. Also lot of negative publicity lately of Google's big brother is watching way of business. So there is a good chance for WP to strike. All it needs is one killer feature or bit improved usability over the others and it happens fast.

[lomatopo]

It's hard to say what you mean of third place? You are talking about the high end of high end where latest iPhone is? Or are you talking about smart phone OS market shares? Or sales volumes for high end, low end, mid range or overall?

I was specifically referring to any/some/all of the following: Smartphone; OS, Units, Market Share, Sales Volume and Profitability. Smartphones, admittedly a broad category, are obviously the market Nokia and Microsoft want to address. This is a completely different market than Nokia has successfully addressed in the past. Smartphones only represent ~ 25% (Q32011) by unit for the mobile communication category, but this where the future is, as well as is the added margin and application add-on. Nokia may have to sell fifty cheap S40 handsets to make the same GM as a single Smartphone. Given their ditching of Symbian, and low-cost manufacturers addressing of this market Nokia has probably, and correctly, given up on this segment. As seen they've been unprofitable recently addressing that market so they have no choice but to move up.

So while Nokia has a reasonable lower-end present-day Smartphone presence (17% by unit: Q32011) with S60/Maemo et al., they've clearly staked their future on Windows Phone in the Smartphone segment. Since they've just started out selling a few thousand pre-order Lumia 800 units it's safe to say they are in last place. So third place in a few years will be an amazing achievement.

Microsoft and Nokia, like many established companies with a large product/market share or installed base which is based on past successes typically find it almost impossible to innovate and re-engineer their culture. Obviously Nokia has been able to do that over 100 years, moving from rubber galoshes to automobile tires to mobile phones. I haven't counted them out, yet, but clearly they are on a downward trajectory, which makes this thread's title appropriate.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Given their ditching of Symbian, and low-cost manufacturers addressing of this market Nokia has probably, and correctly, given up on this segment. As seen they've been unprofitable recently addressing that market so they have no choice but to move up.

Loma, you follow these things more closely than me. But I'm not sure your comment above is a correct one.

As best as I recall, Nokia just recently announced plans for a new OS with some new name to replace the S40 series OS on feature phones, and serve as their future feature phone OS platform. So are they really "given up" on that segment?

Likewise, last I heard, there continues to be talk about Microsoft and Nokia planning some kind of lower-end Windows phone models with lesser specs and prices that would target the "developing" markets at acceptable price points.

So from what I've been reading, it seems that they're continuing to address those lower end markets going forward -- apart from the higher end, higher priced U.S. smartphone market.

[lennois]

Given their ditching of Symbian, and low-cost manufacturers addressing of this market Nokia has probably, and correctly, given up on this segment. As seen they've been unprofitable recently addressing that market so they have no choice but to move up.

Loma, you follow these things more closely than me. But I'm not sure your comment above is a correct one.

As best as I recall, Nokia just recently announced plans for a new OS with some new name to replace the S40 series OS on feature phones, and serve as their future feature phone OS platform. So are they really "given up" on that segment?

Likewise, last I heard, there continues to be talk about Microsoft and Nokia planning some kind of lower-end Windows phone models with lesser specs and prices that would target the "developing" markets at acceptable price points.

So from what I've been reading, it seems that they're continuing to address those lower end markets going forward -- apart from the higher end, higher priced U.S. smartphone market.

Yes, this is correct. They certainly aren't giving up on the segment. They are ditching symbian but that wasn't their low end anyway - s40 was. It appears they are going to a new linux based os called meltemi for feature phones to replace s40.

And they have 'tango' and 'apollo' coming mid 2012 for WP. Tango being the low end stuff for devloping countries, apollo perhaps being W8 with whatever nokia contributes

Edited November 21, 2011 by lennois

[lomatopo]

Nokia Preps Return to the U.S.

[MJo]

Nokia Preps Return to the U.S.

This was out few days ago. T-Mob and Nokia hosting press conference on Dec 14.

My link

Most likely to announce Lumia sales or perhaps T-Mob branded Nokia powered WP device

[MJo]

I had a play with the 800 today was quite impressed. They are late to the game but I think they have the foundation for a great OS in 7.5. It really struck me as fresh the same way as iphone first did. Whether they can get devs interested in them to start producing some decent apps is another matter.

Are you in Thailand wellred? Wouldn't mind picking up the 800 myself

Not yet available in Thailand. Sales started in Singapore this week, will get mine shipped down to BKK hopefully within a week or so. If the poly carbonate body and curved screen is anything like N9 it is sweet pcs of hardware, seen WP only in net reviews so interesting to see how it performs in real life.

Edit: It supports 850, 900, 1900 and 2100MHz frequencies for 3G so will work in any network in Thailand. So your not tied to certain operator after purchase.

Edited December 10, 2011 by MJo

[thaicbr]

What i would love to have is a normal 3g multi frequency phone with a keypad, long battery life and the ability to turn it into a personal wifi hotspot.

The Nokia C3/X3 touch and type WOULD BE JUST RIGHT but alas they do not have wifi hotspot capability (i want to link to my Samsung tab wifi)

Edited December 10, 2011 by thaicbr

[MJo]

What i would love to have is a normal 3g multi frequency phone with a keypad, long battery life and the ability to turn it into a personal wifi hotspot.

The Nokia C3/X3 touch and type WOULD BE JUST RIGHT but alas they do not have wifi hotspot capability (i want to link to my Samsung tab wifi)

For Nokia phones you need to download app from market. Joiku is most popular and here's the link Joiku

It seems C3/X3 are not supported but lot of models and older ones as well that you can get bargain deals.

[thaicbr]

What i would love to have is a normal 3g multi frequency phone with a keypad, long battery life and the ability to turn it into a personal wifi hotspot.

The Nokia C3/X3 touch and type WOULD BE JUST RIGHT but alas they do not have wifi hotspot capability (i want to link to my Samsung tab wifi)

For Nokia phones you need to download app from market. Joiku is most popular and here's the link Joiku

It seems C3/X3 are not supported but lot of models and older ones as well that you can get bargain deals.

I did see that.. Now the problem is finding a relatively low cost phone nokia phone that has a keyboard, good battery life and gsm 900/1800 and wcdma 850/900/2100

I have actually emailed Joiku to see if the c3/x3 can be made compatible, but i'm thinking not as they are S40.

Edited December 10, 2011 by thaicbr

[MJo]

I did see that.. Now the problem is finding a relatively low cost phone nokia phone that has a keyboard, good battery life and gsm 900/1800 and wcdma 850/900/2100

I have actually emailed Joiku to see if the c3/x3 can be made compatible, but i'm thinking not as they are S40.

I'd go with the E-series.

E71/E72 best quality hardware Nokia has done. Not for sale anymore but loads of second hand available. Just need new battery most of the time and works well when updated to latest firmware.

If you need new one then E5/E6, not that expensive either. The new E6 should have very good battery life.

If only for your apartment, get a MiFi router to share 3G data dongle connection over WiFi.

[Gary A]

I did see that.. Now the problem is finding a relatively low cost phone nokia phone that has a keyboard, good battery life and gsm 900/1800 and wcdma 850/900/2100

I have actually emailed Joiku to see if the c3/x3 can be made compatible, but i'm thinking not as they are S40.

I'd go with the E-series.

E71/E72 best quality hardware Nokia has done. Not for sale anymore but loads of second hand available. Just need new battery most of the time and works well when updated to latest firmware.

If you need new one then E5/E6, not that expensive either. The new E6 should have very good battery life.

If only for your apartment, get a MiFi router to share 3G data dongle connection over WiFi.

I have a Nokia E52 and it is a great phone. A few weeks ago I dropped it on the screen and the display went bad. I was worried that it may not be repairable and was looking for a replacement. I chose the E6 but did not need to buy it. It cost me 500 baht for a new display for the E52 so It's good to go for a while yet.

[thaicbr]

I did see that.. Now the problem is finding a relatively low cost phone nokia phone that has a keyboard, good battery life and gsm 900/1800 and wcdma 850/900/2100

I have actually emailed Joiku to see if the c3/x3 can be made compatible, but i'm thinking not as they are S40.

I'd go with the E-series.

E71/E72 best quality hardware Nokia has done. Not for sale anymore but loads of second hand available. Just need new battery most of the time and works well when updated to latest firmware.

If you need new one then E5/E6, not that expensive either. The new E6 should have very good battery life.

If only for your apartment, get a MiFi router to share 3G data dongle connection over WiFi.

I have a Nokia E52 and it is a great phone. A few weeks ago I dropped it on the screen and the display went bad. I was worried that it may not be repairable and was looking for a replacement. I chose the E6 but did not need to buy it. It cost me 500 baht for a new display for the E52 so It's good to go for a while yet.

Gary. Have you tried Yoiku. Does it work ok?

Also how is the phone. Is yours a 850mhz 3 g?

[GreenSnapper]

I did see that.. Now the problem is finding a relatively low cost phone nokia phone that has a keyboard, good battery life and gsm 900/1800 and wcdma 850/900/2100

I have actually emailed Joiku to see if the c3/x3 can be made compatible, but i'm thinking not as they are S40.

I'd go with the E-series.

E71/E72 best quality hardware Nokia has done. Not for sale anymore but loads of second hand available. Just need new battery most of the time and works well when updated to latest firmware.

If you need new one then E5/E6, not that expensive either. The new E6 should have very good battery life.

If only for your apartment, get a MiFi router to share 3G data dongle connection over WiFi.

I have a Nokia E52 and it is a great phone. A few weeks ago I dropped it on the screen and the display went bad. I was worried that it may not be repairable and was looking for a replacement. I chose the E6 but did not need to buy it. It cost me 500 baht for a new display for the E52 so It's good to go for a while yet.

Gary. Have you tried Yoiku. Does it work ok?

Also how is the phone. Is yours a 850mhz 3 g?

Joikuspot works well with 3g.

Almost all newer Nokias are Pentaband. Which means 3g compatibility all over the world.

[Gary A]

I have a Nokia E52 and it is a great phone. A few weeks ago I dropped it on the screen and the display went bad. I was worried that it may not be repairable and was looking for a replacement. I chose the E6 but did not need to buy it. It cost me 500 baht for a new display for the E52 so It's good to go for a while yet.

Gary. Have you tried Yoiku. Does it work ok?

Also how is the phone. Is yours a 850mhz 3 g?

It depends where you have purchased the E52. Mine happens to be a European version made in Finland. Since 3G is still just a dream out in the boonies, I have never even tried the 3G. When I do go to the farang ghetto, I stay in a hotel that has WiFi and use that.

I have never tried Yoiku because the phone does everything I want. I only use a few add ons from OVI and they work fine. I use the Opera browser, SMS blocker, a stop watch, a flash light the uses the LED flash and an English Thai translator. I have a Garmin GPS but the free Nokia maps work OK when I happen to leave the Garmin at home.

2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900

3G Network HSDPA 900 / 2100

- US version HSDPA 850 / 2100

ADDED - I had an E51 before the E52. I traded up for the E52 because of the much bigger battery and the 3.5 mm ear phone jack. Other than that, the E51 was a good phone. I charge my E52 every Sunday even though it still has two or three bars left.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Gary A

[thaicbr]

cool .. ok then does anyone have a Nokia E52 ( US version HSDPA 850 / 2100 )

for sale.

PM if you have. Thanks

if not then i will have to go for the Nokia 500 it looks a nice enough phone.. don't know why they did not put a 3.5" screen on it though.

Edited December 11, 2011 by thaicbr

[MJo]

MBK is your best bet if in BKK, any other IT mall would do as well.

[MJo]

Back to topic in hand....

AT&T, Verizon test 4G LTE Nokia Lumia phone

Behind the scenes, Nokia is making some headway with the big two carriers in the U.S.

The Finnish handset vendor, eager for a comeback, is testing a 4G LTE version of its Lumia 800 smartphone, CNET has learned. That's despite the fact that the Windows Phone operating system powering the Lumia doesn't yet officially support LTE.

Full story

[lomatopo]

Smartphone: Samsung set to dethrone Nokia after Apple in India

EW DELHI: After overtaking Apple as the world's largest smartphone vendor last quarter, Samsung is set to dethrone Nokia as the king of smartphones in India.

"Part of the battle is already won; we will become number one next year," says Ranjit Yadav, who heads Samsung India's mobile and IT businesses. In fact, Samsung was already the market leader in value terms with a 32.3% share in the smartphone market, according to data from market research firm GfK, an industry official said on condition of anonymity.

GfK tracks retail sales of mobile handsets. Nokia, however, says the largest handset maker still dominates the Indian smartphone market. "Based on the figures from all third-party analysts, Nokia leads all India smartphone market both in volume and value terms," says a Nokia spokeswoman.

[lomatopo]

Nokia Siemens to ramp down Iran operations

Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:29pm EST Print This Article

By Tarmo Virki

HELSINKI (Reuters) - The world No. 2 mobile telecom equipment maker Nokia Siemens Networks will start to gradually ramp down its business in Iran, pressured by tightening international sanctions.

Nokia Siemens -- one of the key suppliers to Iranian telecom operators along with Ericsson and Huawei -- has decided to refrain from seeking new business and gradually reduce its commitments in Iran, it said in a letter to its staff in the country.

The venture of Nokia and Siemens, which has been heavily criticized for its business in Iran, last year decided to only continue business with its existing customers, but said that was "almost impossible" now as it would unlikely get export licenses and it could not get the money out of the country.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idCATRE7BC2G020111213

-----------------

Surely a sign things are bad when you have to ramp down business in Iran.

[lomatopo]

The Nokia - T-Mobile event is later today. T-Mobile is probably a good place to re-start for Nokia in the U.S.

Nokia Lumia 710 for T-Mobile: First Press Shot

http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/nokia-lumia-710-for-t-mobile-first-press-shot

[lomatopo]

Nokia Exec: iPhone, Android Handsets No Longer Appeal To Youth

Looks like Nokia executives are increasingly picking up on a specific kind of skill honed by Microsoft execs over the past few years: saying something stupid about their competitors that is undoubtedly coming back to bite them in the ass at some point. Straight from the foot in mouth department: in an exclusive interview with Pocket-lint, Niels Munksgaard, Director of Portfolio, Product Marketing & Sales at Nokia Entertainment says iPhone and Android devices no longer appeal to younger crowds:

What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with iPhones. Everyone has the iPhone,” he said. “Also, many are not happy with the complexity of Android and the lack of security. So we do increasing see that the youth that wants to be on the cutting edge and try something new are turning to the Windows Phone platform.”

Now, I like Nokia’s Lumia 800, which runs Windows Phone Mango, a heck of a lot (more on that later). But why this executive felt the need to scoff the iPhone and Android as a whole, is beyond me.

Yes, Windows Phone looks and feels different, but not everyone agrees that it’s better. The reality is Nokia has everything to prove betting the smartphone farm on Microsoft, and a lot to lose.

Throwing around statements that today’s youths are fed up with the iPhone because “everyone has it” – what does that even mean? As the proverb goes: speech is silver, silence is golden.

-------------------

May be time to get Joe Pesci (from My Cousin Vinny) as a spokesperson to talk about what the "Yoots" are doing?

[Wallaby]

My old phone died a few weeks ago so I had a look on the internet for cheap phones. I then wandered into a shop and told the girl which phone I wanted. The girl looked perplexed and asked why I only wanted that one when I could have some new fandangled phone that does everything but wash the dishes.

She was even more perplexed when I said that all I need is a phone that I can call and text, and answer when it rings, but it must have an alarm to wake me up in the morning.

I'm far from a neanderthal as I am on the computer all day but I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to be a slave to technology every moment of their life.

I suppose what really started to turn me off all these new phones was when I'd meet up with friends for beers and they'd all spend most of their time playing around on their phones. I just found it to be extremely rude and anti social. So the phone stays in my pocket until I am alone and can then call back. I refuse to let it rule me as it does to others.

Though if you need all the gizmos for work then go for it. But not this little duck.

[lennois]

My old phone died a few weeks ago so I had a look on the internet for cheap phones. I then wandered into a shop and told the girl which phone I wanted. The girl looked perplexed and asked why I only wanted that one when I could have some new fandangled phone that does everything but wash the dishes.

She was even more perplexed when I said that all I need is a phone that I can call and text, and answer when it rings, but it must have an alarm to wake me up in the morning.

I'm far from a neanderthal as I am on the computer all day but I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to be a slave to technology every moment of their life.

I suppose what really started to turn me off all these new phones was when I'd meet up with friends for beers and they'd all spend most of their time playing around on their phones. I just found it to be extremely rude and anti social. So the phone stays in my pocket until I am alone and can then call back. I refuse to let it rule me as it does to others.

Though if you need all the gizmos for work then go for it. But not this little duck.

lol, couldn't agree more. I swear some people have their face glued to some kind of screen (computer, tv , cell phone, tablet) 95% of their waking hours.

[MJo]

Nokia Siemens to ramp down Iran operations

Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:29pm EST Print This Article

By Tarmo Virki

HELSINKI (Reuters) - The world No. 2 mobile telecom equipment maker Nokia Siemens Networks will start to gradually ramp down its business in Iran, pressured by tightening international sanctions.

Nokia Siemens -- one of the key suppliers to Iranian telecom operators along with Ericsson and Huawei -- has decided to refrain from seeking new business and gradually reduce its commitments in Iran, it said in a letter to its staff in the country.

The venture of Nokia and Siemens, which has been heavily criticized for its business in Iran, last year decided to only continue business with its existing customers, but said that was "almost impossible" now as it would unlikely get export licenses and it could not get the money out of the country.

http://ca.reuters.co...E7BC2G020111213

-----------------

Surely a sign things are bad when you have to ramp down business in Iran.

All are doing the same, saw reports Huawei is pulling out as well.

Iran has been a gold mine in recent years for all network vendors but pressure from governments and PC brigade is starting to be too much. NSN was accused of providing spy technology etc recently as some of their gear allows monitoring of network and users in it... LOL

You do realize NSN and Nokia are different entities nowadays. So this is not direct Nokia related.

[MJo]

Nokia Lumia 710 for T-Mobile: First Press Shot

Link

Note the 4G logo on the network indicator....

And rumours,,,,

Alleged Nokia Lumia 900 Hands-On Claims Specs, Details

Lumia 900 ?

[lomatopo]

You do realize NSN and Nokia are different entities nowadays. So this is not direct Nokia related.

I confess I was under the same mistaken impression as you re: NSN, but in reading Nokia financials I always see references to NSN's "contribution" and found this on the NSN website:

Financial information about our company

Nokia Siemens Networks’ financial results are consolidated into Nokia's accounts so for company financial information, please refer to Nokia’s quarterly reports.

For more information on Nokia Siemens Networks, please contact Nokia Investor Relations.

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/about-us/company/financial