Nokia Dieing Slowly

[lomatopo]

Note the 4G logo on the network indicator....

Well it is a mock up.

Seriously, T-Mo's HSPA+ 3G network is marketed as 4G.

For those who visit the U.S., T-Mo recently started offering some interesting daily plans with unlimited calls, text and data. $2/day has 2G and $3/day has 3(4)G at least for the first 200 MB. So having a Nokia handset which supports 1700/2100 means you can use 3G, wherever they have coverage.

[MJo]

You do realize NSN and Nokia are different entities nowadays. So this is not direct Nokia related.

I confess I was under the same mistaken impression as you re: NSN, but in reading Nokia financials I always see references to NSN's "contribution" and found this on the NSN website:

Financial information about our company

Nokia Siemens Networks' financial results are consolidated into Nokia's accounts so for company financial information, please refer to Nokia's quarterly reports.

For more information on Nokia Siemens Networks, please contact Nokia Investor Relations.

http://www.nokiasiem...mpany/financial

It's relative, part of it must then go to Siemens books.

In any case Nokia is purely in as owner in running the company.

And NSN has just announced massive re-structuring program and is actively selling the branches they see not fitting their new core strategy.

[lomatopo]

You do realize NSN and Nokia are different entities nowadays. So this is not direct Nokia related.

I confess I was under the same mistaken impression as you re: NSN, but in reading Nokia financials I always see references to NSN's "contribution" and found this on the NSN website:

Financial information about our company

Nokia Siemens Networks' financial results are consolidated into Nokia's accounts so for company financial information, please refer to Nokia's quarterly reports.

For more information on Nokia Siemens Networks, please contact Nokia Investor Relations.

http://www.nokiasiem...mpany/financial

It's relative, part of it must then go to Siemens books.

In any case Nokia is purely in as owner in running the company.

And NSN has just announced massive re-structuring program and is actively selling the branches they see not fitting their new core strategy.

No problem, I too thought NSN was a separately listed entity, but the word "consolidated" means everything goes to Nokia rather than Siemens, so perhaps relevant to this thread?

FWIW, I still have a lot of close, personal friends working at Nokia; I worked there for several years as a result of them buying our start-up for gigantic bucks so I am very appreciative of Nokia's largesse . Most of them, admittedly a small sample ( 12 people, total Nokia employment = more than 150 years ) are much more negative than I appear in my posts.

[MJo]

No problem, I too thought NSN was a separately listed entity, but the word "consolidated" means everything goes to Nokia rather than Siemens, so perhaps relevant to this thread?

FWIW, I still have a lot of close, personal friends working at Nokia; I worked there for several years as a result of them buying our start-up for gigantic bucks so I am very appreciative of Nokia's largesse . Most of them, admittedly a small sample ( 12 people, total Nokia employment = more than 150 years ) are much more negative than I appear in my posts.

Well i'm writing this from NSN office. Do some consulting for them time to time, it's all doom and gloom after the job cut announcements for all badged guys but in the end only way that may save the company. Just should have been done right away when joining with Siemens.

Nokia will be just fine in long run although most likely will not get back to total domination. Won't be long now when media picks up the next one to fall which is RIM if you ask me. Outdated phones, no real touch screen and no plan to change. It's RIM who's losing market share now in US while Nokia seems to be stabilizing.

[lomatopo]

It's RIM who's losing market share now in US while Nokia seems to be stabilizing.

Yes, Nokia's market share in the U.S. has "stabilized" at 1%. Really no place to go but up from there?

The Lumia 710 from T-Mo is aggressively priced at $49.99, with a contract, so that should appeal to some segment of T-Mo's customers. T-Mo is the #4 mobile service provider in the U.S. The launch seems to have been rather muted and low-key; I guess the phone will be available January 11.

Evidently 'Lumia' may not have been the best choice of product line names, at least for Spanish-speaking countries.

Also rumors are that Nokia and Microsoft overlooked LTE support so maybe quite a delay until they can get in the door at AT&T. This may also have been one reason for the management shake-up this week at Microsoft in the Phone group?

There's no question RIM is struggling, and is in a challenging position. They still an a very enviable position in corporate accounts, but that is eroding.

[MJo]

Also rumors are that Nokia and Microsoft overlooked LTE support so maybe quite a delay until they can get in the door at AT&T. This may also have been one reason for the management shake-up this week at Microsoft in the Phone group?

AT&T, Verizon test 4G LTE Nokia Lumia phone

[raro]

lol, couldn't agree more. I swear some people have their face glued to some kind of screen (computer, tv , cell phone, tablet) 95% of their waking hours.

...they usually become a TV mod after a while...

[lomatopo]

Evidently Microsoft forgot to include LTE support in WMP 7.5, and has had to scramble to recover, as has Nokia. Again, this is just a rumor, as is whether the management shake-up at MSFT is a result of this issue or larger ones?

From the link...

That's despite the fact that the Windows Phone operating system powering the Lumia doesn't yet officially support LTE.

The lack of LTE support has been seen as a critical issue for the U.S. carriers, which are increasingly focusing on 4G devices and services. As a result, anyone supporting Windows Phone, including Nokia, faces hurdles getting approval. But Nokia has been running a 4G LTE version of the Lumia 800 in an effort to get the ball rolling on carrier approval, according to several people familiar with the situation.

Nokia and Microsoft need to create end-user demand to pull product through AT&T, Verizon. This will be challenging, expensive and not something which can be accomplished in the short-term.

[MJo]

Maybe WP7.5 lacks LTE but easy fix for Nokia. They have the hw and could actually tweak WP as well to work instead waiting for update from MS.

There is very little news around on LTE phones other than expected next year. I'd assume all are still in development or testing phase like Nokia.

Just out of interst, does Android GB or latest iOS support LTE ? And what is the point as the hw definitively doesn't...

[lomatopo]

Maybe WP7.5 lacks LTE but easy fix for Nokia. They have the hw and could actually tweak WP as well to work instead waiting for update from MS.

There is very little news around on LTE phones other than expected next year. I'd assume all are still in development or testing phase like Nokia.

Just out of interst, does Android GB or latest iOS support LTE ? And what is the point as the hw definitively doesn't...

Not too stray to far off-topic, but AT&T and Verizon both sell scads of LTE phones: Samsung (incl Tab), HTC, LG, Motorola so Nokia/MSFT are well behind the curve.

[MJo]

Maybe WP7.5 lacks LTE but easy fix for Nokia. They have the hw and could actually tweak WP as well to work instead waiting for update from MS.

There is very little news around on LTE phones other than expected next year. I'd assume all are still in development or testing phase like Nokia.

Just out of interst, does Android GB or latest iOS support LTE ? And what is the point as the hw definitively doesn't...

Not too stray to far off-topic, but AT&T and Verizon both sell scads of LTE phones: Samsung (incl Tab), HTC, LG, Motorola so Nokia/MSFT are well behind the curve.

Well indeed AT&T seems to have 3 Android phones and one tablet. Network in couple of cities with limited coverage and various web pages seem to predict nationwide coverage by 2013.

Verizon seems to be same, nationwide 2013.

Both seem to hide the facts, frequency, speeds etc and also phone specs... Difficult to say what they really are selling considering they call HSPA as 4G.

You forgot to mention iOS as well lacking.

But as i have posted twice already Nokia seems to catching up and their LTE models under testing with US operators.

In reality volumes in LTE devices will not be there this year.

[lomatopo]

Maybe WP7.5 lacks LTE but easy fix for Nokia. They have the hw and could actually tweak WP as well to work instead waiting for update from MS.

There is very little news around on LTE phones other than expected next year. I'd assume all are still in development or testing phase like Nokia.

Just out of interst, does Android GB or latest iOS support LTE ? And what is the point as the hw definitively doesn't...

Not too stray to far off-topic, but AT&T and Verizon both sell scads of LTE phones: Samsung (incl Tab), HTC, LG, Motorola so Nokia/MSFT are well behind the curve.

Well indeed AT&T seems to have 3 Android phones and one tablet. Network in couple of cities with limited coverage and various web pages seem to predict nationwide coverage by 2013.

Verizon seems to be same, nationwide 2013.

Both seem to hide the facts, frequency, speeds etc and also phone specs... Difficult to say what they really are selling considering they call HSPA as 4G.

You forgot to mention iOS as well lacking.

But as i have posted twice already Nokia seems to catching up and their LTE models under testing with US operators.

In reality volumes in LTE devices will not be there this year.

I spend a lot of time in the U.S. so am perhaps more familiar with the situation there; based on your posts you seem a bit out of step with that market? Actually your posts sound a bit like Nokia managements' position over the past ~ 8 years.

LTE is vital to both AT&T and Verizon, and Nokia and MSFT are so far behind they probably cannot ever catch up; third or fourth place is likely the best they can do. Think American Motors or RC Cola. AT&T and Verizon have a wide choice of LTE-capable phones and network in most major metropolitan areas.

In the race to the bottom between NOK and RIM, Nokia has already 'won', they're in the proverbial "sh8tter", end of story. It's almost criminal how Nokia pissed away their market position, but hardly unique.

NSN is another disaster, but maybe they can just jettison that back-hole?

Maybe it is best for Nokia to focus on the low-end smart-phone market in emerging markets? Leave the mid-range and high-end WMP to HTC and Samsung?

[MJo]

Well your right, not familiar with US markets, it bit too far of everything in the corner of the world

The future of high end market is Africa and India. China as well still in some level. That's where the growth is coming from. Not from US or European customers upgrading their phones every two years when their contracts expire.

You say again Nokia and MS are too far behind on LTE devices. Did you read the links, devices are in testing with US operators. Yes Android devices are already in market but haven't seen anything from Apple?

In any case it will be another year or two until LTE is widely available and picking up speed, maybe bit less in US as networks are being deployed at the moment.

I still maintain my view that Nokia is not dying, they dropped the ball badly with and Apple and Google got ahead but as we all seen it can go other way and do that in short period. It's totally open on who will bring the next killer feature that will break the bank. Nokia/MS IMHO is candidate to do this along with Apple and Google. Only time will tell. In worst case Nokia will be there with others, not in first place or dominating the markets but still making the best hardware and being profitable.

For WP7 it needs to be remembered that no one really have done high end devices or marketed them. HTC etc have kept low profile and kept the WP7 in sidelines as they been investing in Android. Within a year or two we see how WP7 will do in reality when there is full range of devices out there and the OS comes more mature same time.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Nokia (NOK) Gets Two Notch Upgrade; Firm Sees Plenty of Upside in FY12

January 5, 2012 7:14 AM EST

Nokia (NYSE: NOK) is trading sharply higher in pre-open U.S. trading Thursday, following a two-notch upgrade by Credit Suisse.

The firm upgraded Nokia from Underperform to Outperform, with its price target increased from €4 prior to €6, indicating over 50 percent of upside ($7.72 at today's exchange rate).

Credit Suisse said Nokia's focus on Microsoft's (Nasdaq: MSFT) Windows platform will allow for recovery through 2012, with devices and services revenue growth from the second-half of 2011.

Nokia will also be able to get a 13 percent share of the global smartphone market in the year, and carriers are "widely supportive" of Nokia and its smartphone ecosystem.

http://www.streetinsider.com/Hot+Upgrades/Nokia+%28NOK%29+Gets+Two+Notch+Upgrade%3b+Firm+Sees+Plenty+of+Upside+in+FY12/7058712.html

[lomatopo]

Good news for Nokia in the U.S., and they are going to spend 200 million USD for marketing.

http://www.slashgear.com/att-nokia-lumia-900-ace-to-drop-monday-07207085/

Positive article on Windows Phone.. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/technology/microsoft-defying-image-has-a-design-gem-in-windows-phone.html?_r=2

[lomatopo]

AT&T bets big on Microsoft-Nokia alliance and Windows Phone

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-33363_1-57355426/at-t-bets-big-on-microsoft-nokia-alliance-and-windows-phone/

[lomatopo]

[Gary A]

Nokia makes great hardware, I was an Ericsson user until My wife bought, at that time, a top of the line Nokia. I finally had to admit that her Nokia was a pretty good phone that connected easily with the Internet. If you can't beat them, join them. She did have a Samsung slider that was totally trouble free but the audio quality left a lot to be desired. I recently bought a Samsung dual SIM card phone and it sucks. It refuses to allow my computer use it as a modem. Since all that trouble, I also decided that the Samsung support is terrible. My wife is having a go with the new Samsung because she likes the touch screen. I predict that she will be back using her Nokia before very long.

I'll be very surprised if the newest Nokia

4G LTE isn't popular.

[lomatopo]

There is a lot of positive buzz and optimism regarding the Nokia/Microsoft/AT&T Lumia 900 launch at CES. It looks like AT&T will start selling in March. Nokia is going to spend ~ 100 M USD marketing this new model.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/01/10/nokia-lumia-900-for-atts-4g-lte-network-hands-on-video/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

T-Mobile USA also has just started offering the Nokia Lumia lower level 710 for $50 after rebates with a two year service contract, advertising it as "America’s first 4G Nokia Windows Phone."

http://www.t-mobile....Lumia-710-Black

The 710 model from T-Mobile is listed as having the following 3G bands:

UMTS: Band I (2100);UMTS: Band IV (1700/2100);UMTS: Band V (850)

It also sounds like the Lumia 800 will be sold in an unlocked version in the U.S. I caught some reports that that model may already be on sale at some Fry's electronics stores...and is slated to be sold direct through Microsoft stores in the U.S.

And indeed, I find it on Fry's website... for $799 unlocked:

http://www.frys.com/product/6934377?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

And a 16 GB unlocked version Lumia 800 on Amazon as well for $528

3G/HSDPA 900 / 1900 / 2100:

http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-black--FACTORY-UNLOCKED-/dp/B0067M9JBQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326271432&sr=8-1

Edited January 11, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

The Lumia 710 is really exclusive for T-Mobile.

The Lumia 800 is already available here, 17,900 THB, albeit as a grey-market import, Nokia Thailand plans to launch a localized version in February. I'd expect the price to be closer to 15,000 THB. The Lumia 800 is quad-band 3G (850/900/1900/2100).

The Lumia 900 is really exclusive for AT&T.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Loma, according to GSMArena.com, there appear to be several different configurations of the Lumia 800 as regards to 3G bands, although the primary version does seem to be quad band 3G. But given that MS hasn't started officially selling them in the U.S. yet, I'm not sure which origin models are being offered there at present.

HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1900 / 2100 - RM-819

HSDPA 850 / 1900 / 2100 - For Canada

HSDPA 900 / 1900 / 2100 - RM-801 CV

http://www.gsmarena....ia_800-4240.php

Edited January 11, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's some links to info on the Lumia 710, 900 and 800 (Europe) mobile phones...

710 from T-Mobile

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/buy/7/details.aspx?id=1850&pid=24&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.microsoft.com%2fwindowsphone%2fen-US%2fbuy%2f7%2fdefault.aspx

900 coming via AT&T

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/buy/7/details.aspx?id=1876&pid=7&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.microsoft.com%2fwindowsphone%2fen-US%2fbuy%2f7%2fdefault.aspx

http://www.nokia.com/us-en/products/phone/lumia900/

800 in Europe

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/buy/7/details.aspx?id=1753&pid=&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.microsoft.com%2fwindowsphone%2fen-US%2fbuy%2f7%2fdefault.aspx

[GreenSnapper]

Loma, according to GSMArena.com, there appear to be several different configurations of the Lumia 800 as regards to 3G bands, although the primary version does seem to be quad band 3G. But given that MS hasn't started officially selling them in the U.S. yet, I'm not sure which origin models are being offered there at present.

HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1900 / 2100 - RM-819

HSDPA 850 / 1900 / 2100 - For Canada

HSDPA 900 / 1900 / 2100 - RM-801 CV

The model already on sale in Singapore is quad-band 3G (850, 900, 1900, 2100).

Will probably be the same once it arrives in Thailand.

[ianguygil]

The Lumia 710 is really exclusive for T-Mobile.

The Lumia 800 is already available here, 17,900 THB, albeit as a grey-market import, Nokia Thailand plans to launch a localized version in February. I'd expect the price to be closer to 15,000 THB. The Lumia 800 is quad-band 3G (850/900/1900/2100).

The Lumia 900 is really exclusive for AT&T.

I've had a WP7 HTC phone for about a year (among many other phones because of my job which includes Mobile Banking) and while I love the interface the big issue they have in Thailand is that there is no native Thai language support at this point. So for most Forum members this is not a problem, but for some of us it is. There is a 3rd party workaround for entering Thai but it is just a little cumbersome. From talking to the MICROSOFT GM (we do a lot of business together) it appears it will be a few more months before there is full Thai support. So if NOKIA is launching this in Thailand in a month it must be without full native Thai support in the OS.

Apart from that this is a really smooth OS. A different take than the iOS and ANDROID we are all used too. And variety is always good.

[MJo]

710 and 800 are offered globally, only 900 so far has been exclusive for AT&T.

Also possible that in US some operators get exclusive deals in the beginning for 710 or 800, it is totally different market than elsewhere as almost all phones are sold via operators.

And depending on AT&T sales i'd not be surprised to see 900 for sale outside US at some point or with other US operators. Althoug it is also likely that Nokia will bring comparable or even more advanced models out for global distribution shortly once the present 800 hype is going down.

Also for massive marketing budget i understood it was MS not Nokia who was about to spend 200 mill this year

[MJo]

For thai fonts, there is no thai keyboard yet but sms etc in thai shows in thai font.

Phone from Singapore, traditionally Nokia has sold the same version in Thailand and in Singapore so i'd expect the thai model to be the same.

Quad band 3G.

Operating band

• GSM 850
  
• GSM 900
  
• GSM 1800
  
• GSM 1900
  
• WCDMA Band V (850)
  
• WCDMA Band I (2100)
  
• WCDMA Band II (1900)
  
• WCDMA Band VIII (900)
  

[lomatopo]

It does look like there is a non T-Mo version of the Lumia 710, it looks like that unit is 3G 900/1900/2100, so perhaps limited for use here in Thailand? The T-Mo version does support 850/900/1700 (AWS)/1900/2100.

Nokia staff in the Paragon shop said the Lumia 800 would be available here "in February", and I guess i expected that to be a fully localized product. I assume they would not launch a product here unless it fully supported Thai language.

The Lumia 800 is listed on the Thailand Mobile Expo 2012 page so maybe they will show it there, Jan. 26-29, 2012 Queen Sirikit Center,

http://www.thailandmobileexpo.com/

Edited January 13, 2012 by lomatopo

[MJo]

Lumia 710 as sold in Singapore. I'd expect they sell the same in Thailand. Although they might add the thai keyboard before launching here.

Below bands also apply to 710 sold in Europe.

Operating band

• GSM 900
  
• GSM 1800
  
• GSM 1900
  
• WCDMA Band I (2100)
  
• WCDMA Band II (1900)
  
• WCDMA Band VIII (900)
  

Edited January 13, 2012 by MJo

[MJo]

Lumia 710 as sold in north america. Quadband 3G.

Operating band

• GSM 850
  
• GSM 900
  
• GSM 1800
  
• GSM 1900
  
• WCDMA Band V 850
  
• WCDMA Band I 2100
  
• WCDMA Band II 1900
  
• WCDMA Band IV 1700