surayu Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi all, i am planning to purchase a small generator for the saltuary power cuts we have here at the jungle's door. Roughly i guess we have a total consumption of 1 or lets say even 1,5KW, so the generator seems to fit the bill with 2KW, i never used one of this things before, there is anything i should be aware of you think? I almost forgot, the quoted price is 7.500 Bahts while next door are asking 12.000 for exactly the same machine, obviously i will go for the latter just to get that special feeling about it, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Your biggest problem will be wiring this in safely. You will need a transfer switch of some sort unless you simply intend plugging the appliances you want to run into a traily from the genset. Do NOT do the 'Thai' way of having a lead with a plug on each end and then plug it into an outlet. Thaivisa sponsor Genset has good info on his site http://www.generatorsolutions.org/ worth a read before shelling out the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks. Well, my idea was to put one of those "shoe's size" ceramic white switch, actually 2 of them, 1 that will disconnect the electricity coming from the meter and 1 connected to the generator. This is unless i can find something for sale which is able to turn on and off the machine on his own when is required, a bit like one of those emergency light boxes we can see for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedObserver Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 My only comment is that the generator is rated at 1.0 (unity) power factor. If you operate any motors, such as a water pump, then I'd realistically expect the rating to be 1.6 kW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks. Well, my idea was to put one of those "shoe's size" ceramic white switch, actually 2 of them, 1 that will disconnect the electricity coming from the meter and 1 connected to the generator. This is unless i can find something for sale which is able to turn on and off the machine on his own when is required, a bit like one of those emergency light boxes we can see for sale. It is absolutely imperative that the switches are interlocked so that they cannot both be on at the same time. Plenty of suitable units about, Google 'generator transfer switch' or have a look on eBay, several Chinese sellers have change-over switches that would be a low cost solution. Hmmm, a 'single phrase' generator, does that mean its English is limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electau Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 As per Crossys post.. The 2 pole change over switch should have 3 or 2 positions 1-0-2 or 1-2. It should have a minimum of 10 or16 amps rating and must be connected in such a manner that the generator supply can not feed back into the PEA supply. It should be surface mounted in a enclosure. The generator frame should be earthed. You may have to get an electrician to install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hmmm, a 'single phrase' generator, does that mean its English is limited? Yes, apparently it only say those few words when it's overheated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrfeild Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 My only comment is that the generator is rated at 1.0 (unity) power factor. If you operate any motors, such as a water pump, then I'd realistically expect the rating to be 1.6 kW. Regardless of how much power you use, I would strongly reccomend that you buy the 3KVa unit or you will find you are using the genny at full trottle, better the genny isn't running at full revs. Also you might want to think of attaching larger fuel tank to it, or you will be filling the thing up every couple of ours. don't forget you might want to build a sound proof shack for it as well depending on neighbours? I'm thinking of doing the same thing. We sometimes get power cuts of 12hrs plus. Would be interested in knowing how you get on. It would be nice to use solar panels and or wind genny, But I'm not sure how easy it is to get the equipment here in the North. Also wonder how expensive it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 several Chinese sellers have change-over switches that would be a low cost solution. That country is becoming a true nightmare, i bought a small portable "bushcutter" last week to clean up the garden, as the locals doesn't seem to appreciate anymore being paid almost 3 times the money they get when they do exactly the same jobs in neighbouring properties, they want more,more,more......so as i actually enjoy gardening as well, i made this small investment. Now, the problem is, that this little (master)piece of junk, broke down 5 times in 2 days, the first 3 times it was the little "rope" you have to pull to make the gasoline engine to start, then the button to control the speed become stuck and the last problem it was something i couldn't fix because it requires a replacement of a broken part. It was horrible, the shell is made of plastic and when you use it, the vibrations of the machine would make the screws keeping the thing all in one piece, fall down. The last screw was inside of the moving parts so it made a disaster, now i am waiting for a replacement and i hope the shop will have the good taste to supply that part free, but i have my doubts..... Also the small button that supposed to keep on hold the speed button it never worked... Thanks for that usefull link about generators, i see they have the automatic switches i was looking for, however no prices are stated and reading further i understand why, but why they don't employ a thai engineer so they can open up for business? This working situation for the foreigners in this country it's really grotesque sometime. So i goggled a bit to find an indicative price for those devices, but some more informations came out from it: Item specifics Place of Origin:Zhejiang China (Mainland)Brand Name:JEENDA OR OEMModel Number:InteliLite AMF25 Last purchase, Made In China..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 ... Our area is not that bad for power cuts, it can be anything from 5-10 minutes to the whole night, especially if it's raining, however, 9 times out of 10 it would be 20 minutes to 1 hour (with 90% of this time in a "brown out", so we still have the lights illuminating a bit, not total darkness). I like the idea of eco-friendly power production too, but the costs(x10 or more..) are still too high for what you get in the end, especially with the limited life's span of PV panels. Small tip, if you don't live in an urban area, you might want to recycle your used cooking oil to light up some oil lamps (you can easily made them by yourself), very usefull if you have lots of power outages and enjoy fried food ...it creates a nice ambiance too and it kills all those pesky flying,jumping,walking little insects. Ohh i forgot to mention that the smell might make you hungry again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrfeild Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) ... Our area is not that bad for power cuts, it can be anything from 5-10 minutes to the whole night, especially if it's raining, however, 9 times out of 10 it would be 20 minutes to 1 hour (with 90% of this time in a "brown out", so we still have the lights illuminating a bit, not total darkness). I like the idea of eco-friendly power production too, but the costs(x10 or more..) are still too high for what you get in the end, especially with the limited life's span of PV panels. Small tip, if you don't live in an urban area, you might want to recycle your used cooking oil to light up some oil lamps (you can easily made them by yourself), very usefull if you have lots of power outages and enjoy fried food ...it creates a nice ambiance too and it kills all those pesky flying,jumping,walking little insects. Ohh i forgot to mention that the smell might make you hungry again. If only the outages were only 5 or 10 minutes, generally it is about 3 hours before it gets reconnected, Like you said especially if its been raining very hard. But we had so much rain the other day, it got cut at about 1pm. They didn't get it connected till about 8am, the next day, an exception to the norm, but it always seems to happen when it gets to the best part of the movie Edited August 16, 2011 by garrfeild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedObserver Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 My only comment is that the generator is rated at 1.0 (unity) power factor. If you operate any motors, such as a water pump, then I'd realistically expect the rating to be 1.6 kW. Regardless of how much power you use, I would strongly reccomend that you buy the 3KVa unit or you will find you are using the genny at full trottle, better the genny isn't running at full revs. Also you might want to think of attaching larger fuel tank to it, or you will be filling the thing up every couple of ours. don't forget you might want to build a sound proof shack for it as well depending on neighbours? I'm thinking of doing the same thing. We sometimes get power cuts of 12hrs plus. Would be interested in knowing how you get on. It would be nice to use solar panels and or wind genny, But I'm not sure how easy it is to get the equipment here in the North. Also wonder how expensive it is? While your reasoning is valid, the fact is that the gasoline engine has to run at a constant RPM in order for the generator to produce a steady 50Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasRanger Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I had the same power problems. Looked at some of the cheaper knock of chinese type gennys in Issan with no garuntee (screw that), finaly got a 6.5Kw Honda and it's great powers everything including A/C if needed. Slightly too noisy at the back of the house as the walls amplified it, now run it in my garage with windows open and no one allowed inside, ever! Have a 3 pole transfer swith fitted, just one of those you see all over Thailand, got a 60A one, works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomallison Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 My only comment is that the generator is rated at 1.0 (unity) power factor. If you operate any motors, such as a water pump, then I'd realistically expect the rating to be 1.6 kW. Regardless of how much power you use, I would strongly reccomend that you buy the 3KVa unit or you will find you are using the genny at full trottle, better the genny isn't running at full revs. Also you might want to think of attaching larger fuel tank to it, or you will be filling the thing up every couple of ours. don't forget you might want to build a sound proof shack for it as well depending on neighbours? I'm thinking of doing the same thing. We sometimes get power cuts of 12hrs plus. Would be interested in knowing how you get on. It would be nice to use solar panels and or wind genny, But I'm not sure how easy it is to get the equipment here in the North. Also wonder how expensive it is? While your reasoning is valid, the fact is that the gasoline engine has to run at a constant RPM in order for the generator to produce a steady 50Hz. For 'full revs' read full load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billmont Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) I have a 5.5kw generator hard wired to a 100 amp pole switch. (The 100amp was the only one available) The tank is of sufficient size to run about a full day and I have a reserve container of about 20Ltr. Yes it is a little noisy but it sits on an old car tyre as recommended by the electrician who installed it, which help reduce the noise and vibration. It is in my garage as part of the house. When I start it up and connect to the house supply I then open the electric garage door and side door to get rid of the fumes. I also run a fan to blow the fumes out of the garage. If I run everthing in my house I need about 4kw but I often connect an extension lead to the houses each side of me so that they can have a light,. It also helps them to accept the noise. I test run it once a week for about 10 minutes to charge the battery and keep in in good working order but do not connect it to the house mains during the test runs. I do not always use it when we have a power cut depending on the time of day or if I really need power, too hot, cooking, in the middle of watching an interesting program on the TV. However the fact that I can have power whenever I need it is almost as important as actually using it. The feeling of security at having electric power always available makes life a lot more comfortable and I would certainly recommend it. Edited August 21, 2011 by Billmont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genset Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Your biggest problem will be wiring this in safely. You will need a transfer switch of some sort unless you simply intend plugging the appliances you want to run into a traily from the genset. Do NOT do the 'Thai' way of having a lead with a plug on each end and then plug it into an outlet. Thaivisa sponsor Genset has good info on his site http://www.generatorsolutions.org/ worth a read before shelling out the cash. Hi Guys, Thanks again to Crossy for referring to my site. I have to apologize for not being as active in the forum these days but I do still answer every email or communication posted through my website. For those who have never read my original post which was buried some time ago now, you may find it useful to read this thread on TV http://www.thaivisa....rs-in-thailand/ hopefully it will answer some of the questions you may have, if you require additional info you can contact me directly via IM or the email address on my website. Regards, Genset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genset Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) several Chinese sellers have change-over switches that would be a low cost solution. Thanks for that usefull link about generators, i see they have the automatic switches i was looking for, however no prices are stated and reading further i understand why, but why they don't employ a thai engineer so they can open up for business? This working situation for the foreigners in this country it's really grotesque sometime. So i goggled a bit to find an indicative price for those devices, but some more informations came out from it: Item specifics Place of Origin:Zhejiang China (Mainland)Brand Name:JEENDA OR OEMModel Number:InteliLite AMF25 Last purchase, Made In China..... Hi Surayu, Happy to provide additional info... China produces all manner of facsimile products, some under license, others not. The InteliLite AMF25 is one of a number of controllers produced by ComAp, a Czech company http://www.comap.cz/ . These controllers are robust, very reliable, used by a number of very reputable organizations including the National Grid in the UK, however for your particular situation, not economically viable I fear. The controller would cost more than the generator you were considering in your initial post and are generally used where reliable automatic changeover is a requirement for larger generators (50Kva + standby for a guest house, or larger generator for a hospital that kind of thing). There are cheaper automatic options I would be happy to discuss with you if automatic changeover is an absolute must. Both Crossy and Electau have raised a crucial issue which should be front and center in the mind of anybody considering hooking up any type of generator to their home, specifically that the correct method be used when connecting the generator supply to your distribution board; the connection must be made using a fit for purpose changeover switch, whether automatic or manual. If automatic, the contactors MUST be mechanically (and preferably electrically) interlocked; if manual, you need to incorporate a 'break before make' manual changeover switch (this is the first type 1-0-2 suggested by Electau) this type of swithc disconnects the first supply, completely breaking the connection, before making the connection with the second supply. Both of these methods will prevent utility and generator supply from being simultaneously connected to your DB and prevent the generator from feeding power down the utility supply lines. Crossys suggestion of a Chinese, low-cost manual changeover switch is entirely reasonable, there are very few moving parts, they are generally a fairly robust item and I would be happy to use one myself. Although certain Chinese products do suffer from a lack of QC and manufacturing issues, not everything they produce is crap, it's conventional wisdom, but slightly off the mark in my opinion. Regards, Genset. Edited August 29, 2011 by genset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 .... Hi Genset, thanks for the links, i am currently still reading it. Ohh and the chinese bush-cutter, almost every single part of it is falling apart, buyers beware, this company "Sky-Line" it's a total kraaaaaapp, i have only been using the machine a couple of days, every single part is detaching, i spend more time fixing it than by using it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hi Surayu, glad to see whatever it was that got you wasn't lethal. Hopefully your genset installation will be as safe As Genset notes, one has to be careful with stuff from our Chinese friends, they do produce some carp, but by no means everything should be placed in the same bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 ... Ok, question for you ...or anybody else on the knows After reading the whole first page of your thread, it is not clear to me the meanings of those hours : "Generally feature alternators up to 10Kva/8Kw in size and are designed to produce up to the alternators maximum rated output for 200 hours a year with no overload capacity." Does it means that after 200 hours of work, the machine will stop working forever? Or some part of it wears out and needs to be replaced? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hi Surayu, glad to see whatever it was that got you http://www.thaivisa....-my-right-hand/ wasn't lethal. Hopefully your genset installation will be as safe As Genset notes, one has to be careful with stuff from our Chinese friends, they do produce some carp, but by no means everything should be placed in the same bin Hi, yes i am still here, the forum got to bear with me for another while, i can still feel sore vessels right now.... After a meeting with the jungle's crawlies we all agreed that a generator is needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasRanger Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Here are some pics of my recent setup and transfer switch Generator Pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 one has to be careful with stuff from our Chinese friends, they do produce some carp, Yes, i think i have seen them for sale, what a (flip) flop of a product ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David006 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 :cheesy: sharp as a tack..thanks for the laugh.. I bought a Chinese 1000w generator in Langkawi for my boat.. very quiet and behaved pretty well till I gave it a good rev one day to give it a bit of a clear out...discovered there was NO voltage regulator!!. Voltage shot up to 350v.. ..expensive battery charger needed a bit of fixing... ...if ain't broke...leave the #$%^& thing alone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electau Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Here are some pics of my recent setup and transfer switch Generator Pics The inlet socket is a reverse pin one ( IEC type)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genset Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 ... Ok, question for you ...or anybody else on the knows After reading the whole first page of your thread, it is not clear to me the meanings of those hours : "Generally feature alternators up to 10Kva/8Kw in size and are designed to produce up to the alternators maximum rated output for 200 hours a year with no overload capacity." Does it means that after 200 hours of work, the machine will stop working forever? Or some part of it wears out and needs to be replaced? Thanks. Hi Surayu, No, correctly used (read: not loaded to the gills 24/7) with a little TLC and regular maintenance, a half decent genny should give you a number of years of reliable service. The smaller generators in question are generally manufactured with 'light duty' applications in mind, as such the engine will be less robust, the insulation on the alternator windings may be a lower grade for example. The expectation is that these type of generators will be used occasionally to support a fairly low load. If you require something to supply power on a more regular basis for extended periods of time, or as a prime power source, a much more robust engine, higher grade of alternator insulation etc will be required; horses for courses really. Regards, Genset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surayu Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks again for the info, however it is still unclear to me, what those stated 200 hours supposed to mean.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasRanger Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Here are some pics of my recent setup and transfer switch Generator Pics The inlet socket is a reverse pin one ( IEC type)? Sorry, not sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genset Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Thanks again for the info, however it is still unclear to me, what those stated 200 hours supposed to mean.... It's a general guide for use of the generator. 200 hours divided by 52 weeks a year equates to about 3.85 hours a week, in other words fairly light use (it's not to say you cant use it for longer periods than that, it's a recommended benchmark for annual use). If you are using it (or anticipate using it) for longer periods than this, you should consider a generator which is rated for more regular use and/or which supports a slightly larger load. As power is generated by the alternator the windings heat up, the more power it generates the more they heat up. A combination of a low grade of insulation (which is what these generators feature normally...) and extended use (hours at a time), will increase the chance of this insulation failing and your alternator burning out, increasing the load on these small generators will expedite the problem. Quite naturally, this is not something most people are either aware of, or take into consideration when purchasing a generator, you just turn it on and hey presto right..? My advice is offered to assist you in purchasing the right tool for the job, that's all, I hope you find it to be of some use. Before posts begin popping up suggesting that individuals have used their small generators every day for 12 hours for the last year without a problem, I should add that these recommendations are about reducing strain on the generator and extending longevity. Of course, we all abuse tools from time to time and they take it, but these recommendations are made by alternator/generator manufacturers based on their own destructive testing results. Regards, Genset. Edited August 30, 2011 by genset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedObserver Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks again for the info, however it is still unclear to me, what those stated 200 hours supposed to mean.... If you use the generator more than 200 hours/year you are getting away from the standby use designation and should consider a more robust industrial grade prime power machine. In layman's language, it will wear out faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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