The Bear Pit - And New Forum Rules

[Guest IT Manager]

The following are the result of over 15 hours work by admins. Read and comment. We may make some adjustments over the next few days, but let us know what you think of them. Once they are accepted, they will become the board rules, and the Political Debate will begin in "The Bearpit"

The reason why we have these rules:

- We don't want problems with the Thai Authorities, who are capable of monitoring and can even shut down inappropriate websites.

- Member postings may show up in different Search Engines from time to time.

- Our sponsors/advertisers don't want to be associated with inappropriate, vulgar or harassing content.

Summary: We want to have a forum that differs from the Internet usenet newsgroup soc.culture.thai and other unmoderated fora, and thereby provide a place for intelligent, rational discussion among people on issues relating to Thailand.

1. Our contracts with our advertisers prohibit comments regarding advertisements which appear on our forums. Such comments should not be posted and will be removed. We welcome your feedback by email however.

2. Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.

3. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Thaivisa.com. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.

4. Postings on this forum and forum branches must be related to Thailand. General political posts regarding political issues elsewhere in the World, except as they relate to Thailand, should be addressed to other forums, e g newsgroups.

5. Members may not under any circumstances post anything which in the opinion of one or more Admins, can be construed as In Lese Majeste, that is, may be construed to be detrimental to the Image of His Majesty or Members of The Thai Royal Family. Posters in violation of this particular rule will be reported, as appropriate to Thai Authorities.

6. Members may not make personal attacks on any member of the Royal Thai Government or The Opposition.

7. This is a Thailand focused forum, based in Thailand, for Foreigners and Thai people to exchange views. The forum administrators feel it is inappropriate to denigrate Thai people or Thai views of issues and therefore reserve the right to edit posts which the administrators feel may be seen as doing this.

8. Members may not post items or statements which are designed, in the view of one or more Administrators, to personally attack another member for that members views. (No flaming or flame wars).

9. Views expressed by members, which are overtly racist or sexist will be edited and may be deleted. Successive posts will lead to action against the poster as detailed elsewhere. Postings which specifically attack women, homosexuals, any racial group, or the disabled will be deleted, the member banned and further postings from that member made impossible.

10. Content containing the family name or identifying information of an individual or content targeting individuals in a negative, libelous or defamatory manner

11. Proprietary or confidential information that is the property of any other individual or entity, without the permission of such individual or entity

12. Members may not make use of avatars or Forum Nicknames which are of a sexual or racist nature, and Thaivisa.com reserves the right to ban immediately, members doing so.

13. Although Thaivisa.com has no obligation to do so, Thaivisa.com monitors the Forum and reserves the right to delete all or portions of content that violate the rules as detailed here.

14. If you find that a message is in violation of the above rules, please contact Thaivisa.com.

15. Threads and posts which go off topic, in the opinion of one or more admins, may be closed and/or edited, or another thread opened to deal with the off-topic issue. Off topic threads may be deleted.

16. Admins may post political Commentary, but will refrain from editing posts by members, which run contrary to the Admins own political views, based solely on the Admins View. Admins are required to debate their view, not stifle others expressions.

17. Members breaking the board rules, will initially be warned and/or subject to future moderation. Seriously offending postings will be removed and member suspended and reported to their ISP

18. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this forum.

[Pink Mist]

Thats fair IT. Let the games begin, it should be good to watch.

[marquess]

With the above rules in force, there will be very little that one can post, with giving someone offence. Especially the part that says that on member of the Thai gov can be critiscised. Does that include there policies as well?

[mrentoul]

I suspect it's fair game to criticise government policy, as those policies can affect board users living in Thailand.

However, I think we are being asked to avoid making personal attacks on politicians.

Defamatory or derogatory remarks make for unpleasant reading no matter who the target is.

[Axel]

Guess it covers most of it and keeps discussions about non-Thai related issues out.

So GWB is out unless he comes again or you find a lateral entrance. (Loved this one Dr. )

Small thing, points 10 and 11 seem to show your notes, only. Syntax?

[davidm]

Fair enough, in as much as this is not my forum, so I can't make the rules. That said, the url "thaivisa.com" makes it perfectly clear that this forum is not based in Thailnd but resides in a US-based server. As such rules 5, 6 & 7 are not legally binding in as much that if I were to break one of those rules while typing on a computer outside Thailand, it's none of the Thai authorities' business what I may have said. I understand the reasons behind the rules and will respect them, but reporting someone for breaking those rules is very low,especially if the circumstances I have just described applied to the poster.

[Guest IT Manager]

With the above rules in force, there will be very little that one can post, with giving someone offence. Especially the part that says that on member of the Thai gov can be critiscised. Does that include there policies as well?

Feel free to expand a little marquess.

Or maybe to re-read what you wrote, correct it and re post.

[Guest IT Manager]

Fair enough, in as much as this is not my forum, so I can't make the rules. That said, the url "thaivisa.com" makes it perfectly clear that this forum is not based in Thailnd but resides in a US-based server. As such rules 5, 6 & 7 are not legally binding in as much that if I were to break one of those rules  while typing on a computer outside Thailand, it's none of the Thai authorities' business what I may have said. I understand the reasons behind the rules and will respect them, but reporting someone for breaking those rules is very low,especially if the circumstances I have just described applied to the poster.

Davidm fair point.Assume the rules are already there. assume someone plays a little game and breaks the main rule. We have done our best to make sure we abide by the law at least.

Breaking rule 5 would personally offend me deeply. I would not only report it, I would do all I could to identify the poster, with every detail I could get, before reporting it.

Whether it would happen is debatable, but I want a way to at least defend myself. Unlike you, I live here full time you see, so do other admins.

[the gentleman]

Well done - The rules seem fair as Thai law has to be conformed too.

[Guest IT Manager]

I suspect it's fair game to criticise government policy, as those policies can affect board users living in Thailand.

However, I think we are being asked to avoid making personal attacks on politicians.

Defamatory or derogatory remarks make for unpleasant reading no matter who the target is.

It specifically states personalities are out policies are ok that means.

I hope it works. I hope the three members of the dogfight can get it together to not be personal in every single posting.

We can but do our best, since none of you actuallt pay for anything that happens here and take none of the risks inherent in doing it, and there are plenty.

I keep thinking when someone starts to lash o9ut.. "why are you here" "what do we offer that you can't leave it alone". I guess it means the forum is good in members eyes as well.

IMHO if someone wants to bag Thailand and Thais et, go for it, thats what Ajarn.com is all about. Ranting and hatred. I spent 6 hours on here today with George and the Doc, building the rules so we cover our butts before we let postings on politics loose. I think it was time well spent. I actually enjoyed it. I spent time with friends, I had a chat to a couple of new people and I introduced a new user. It was like being out with mates.

If that's a problem, my apologies, up to a point, but I don't understand it, if that's the case for anyone. You guys think about it, especially off-shore people. When you live here full time you get few enough opportunities to talk in English. This is where I come for my hit of it. I try hard not to offend and on occasion fail, but I like coming here, in spite of the side issues it involves.

Have a good week you lot.

[Butterfly]

Davidm fair point.Assume the rules are already there. assume someone plays a little game and breaks the main rule. We have done our best to make sure we abide by the law at least.

Breaking rule 5 would personally offend me deeply. I would not only report it, I would do all I could to identify the poster, with every detail I could get, before reporting it.

Whether it would happen is debatable, but I want a way to at least defend myself. Unlike you, I live here full time you see, so do other admins.

one question if I may: this forum is not hosted in Thailand, so why all the paranoia with the Thai government ? Is the domain name hosted or registered to an address in Thailand ? there is no way that the Thai government could lodge a complain with you. Not technically feasible. They couldn't get your info from your ISP unless you guys are hosting secret messages to AQ.

Unless I am missing something here, I would like to know why the paranoia about the Thai government ? or is it just "respect" because you live there ?

[Butterfly]

I hope it works. I hope the three members of the dogfight can get it together to not be personal in every single posting.

Well, I will try. It would be nice though that you don't censor my opinions because a few "sensitive" souls can't handle it.

[mrpager2000]

You guys have obviously lived in Thailand long enough to adopt the Thai way of thinking, as they have been trained to think, not questioning or provoking anything.

people post because they are provoked, differing opinions and versions of reality make things alittle more exciting. people and governments should be held in some way accountable, if not legally and least in the forum of public opinion, which at this point you seem to be severely limiting. The right of people to express their opinions, without invinging on others sense of being should not be silenced, being offended, slightly or disagreeing is life.

Also, limiting to only thai related topic is a bit strange, If expats living in thailand was to exchange thought about events back home why not permit it? It would be thai related because they have embraced Thailand as their "home away from home" and this is the place to turn.

The open exchange of ideas is what makes and defines a "forum" and it should remain that way in most cases, except for exteme cases or overly offensive statements.

fo·rum ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fôrm, fr-)

n. pl. fo·rums, also fo·ra (fôr, fr) A public meeting place for open discussion.

Dont rewrite the dictionary for fear of thai pressure. They are after porn related sites. They DO NOT block american sites that offer service sthat they consider illegal (Net2phone, dialpad.com) you can find critizism of the thai officials on thai sites and major search engines (not the royal family) but if the royal family is doing something bad, why not?

try to keep the forum as forum-like as possible or you may lose participation and a new less regulated site will popup to serve a need that you havent met.

( ill probably be banned for this posting oh well)

Also, one of the last posting mentions that you own this forum, that is absolutely false, the forum belongs to the people. You own the domain.

I do support some of your guidelines as they are sometimes necessary.

Guildines....Not rules

[KevinN]

well I dont see where you can have a political forum and not step on someones toes and politics do seem to do that. and I know from experience that if anything is said that is in the least ,not positive of a Thai for any reason,you will be called a sick racist and the post wiped out.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

well I dont see where you can have a political forum and not step on someones toes and politics do seem to do that. and I know from experience that if anything is said that is in the least ,not positive of a Thai for any reason,you will be called a sick racist and the post wiped out.

Racist stuff gets that sort of treatment, not just slight negative sentiment Kev

[pnustedt]

Are there laws in Thailand regarding use (or misuse) of the Thai flag - e.g. should it be prohibited from use on an Avatar? If so it should be stated in the rules/regulations.

[marquess]

(marquess @ Sun 2004-01-04, 20:15:25)

With the above rules in force, there will be very little that one can post, with giving someone offence. Especially the part that says that on member of the Thai gov can be critiscised. Does that include there policies as well? 

Feel free to expand a little marquess.

Or maybe to re-read what you wrote, correct it and re post.

With the exception of rule five, which we are all aware of, and it has not been violated here.

This is supposed to be a discussion forum, and yet you seem to be fostering an atmosphere that is unconducive to to free discussion. Reminds me of policies of the current gov here. No one with the exception of rule 5, is above critisism. All I am asking for is the use of commons sense on your part, and no doubt you will receive the same from your members. Rather than fostering an atompshere that stifles discussion.

It has never been my intention to personally insult anyone, but if a member of the gov is coming out with some Puritanical views and policies, that effect us all. Just because they feel that they should be making decisions for us that we are quite capable of making ourselves. Then, I don't see why they should not be cristisised. Of course there is a fine line between critisism and an insult. That again is where commons sense must come in

Less rules please and more commons sense!

[Serge]

Unless this no longer becomes a public meeting place for open discussion then, how can we consider this a forum?

With the exception of rule #5 which is written and detailed in Thai Law as illegal, I see little reason to start turning the current forum into something being hosted in the People's Republic of China.

Please, Thailand has a democratic Constitution! Why attempt to go beyond what is allowed under Thailand's Rule of Law?

Respectfully submitted,

Serge

[davidm]

A couple of points to bear in mind, ######.

I've been living full time in Thailand since 1987 and have never even been to America. I'm not a part timer.

If someone were to break rule 5 while typing from the States, it is you who would be in the wrong. Anyone who's been here for more than five minutes knows how foolish it is to criticise the Thai royal family, and I wouldn't blame you for an instant for banning the offender. Reporting them to Thai authorities is another matter. In the process, you are almost certainly violating US laws regarding freedom of speech etc. and might end up on the wrong end of a law suit.

The good news is that I've never seen a post that breaks your rule and doubt if any members would do so.

[p1p]

Congratulations on a good set of rules.

* Might I suggest that two administrators should agree prior to the removal of a post, or a thread.

* Does the rule against commenting on advertisments or advertisers mean that said advertisers are prohibited from plugging their own businesses in posts?

[mijan24]

Abiding by Number 5 goes without saying - and even though we have many prangsters amongst us this makes us no less respectful in real life and I am sure to respect anothers reverance stands us in good stead as good citizens no matter where we now rest our whatevers.

Being a fairly active and avid reader of the posts there seems to me only one "name" "person" who cops a repeated pasting by deed and misname - is it thertefore reasonable to assume that pressure has been brought to bear from above - or is this a pre emptive move by the wise? In our many countries of origin we would probably say "they" or "he" is fair game but it is also wise - when in Rome do as the Romanians (sic) do!

mijan24

PS: As I have previously advertised what date I inted to arrive I have taken the strategic move of changing that to No I am not paranoid hopefully just wiseing up as I get younger 45 with 13 in the bank.

[Guest IT Manager]

In my view P1P the view of advertisers is that their companies shouldn't be subjected to abuse or negative reflections on or about their services in a forum which they pay to advertise in. In my view that is fair, advertising here costs quite a lot.

PM is provided for being bitchy to people in the forum, and is a better vehicle for it. If you want to advertise here, and I do now, it's a good way to introduce people to your business, for example Indo Siam does it all the time, quite professionally. I try to do the same.

If you have a business, and it fits within the rules, feel free to plug it now and then, as I have done, and invite members to eat/drink/remove their shoes etc., at it. You won't get any complaints from me. Neither I suspect, will George and Doc complain if it is done tastefully.

For example meet my daughter at www.viagradoesiteverytime.com will probably draw some amount of protest however "a small gathering of persons interested in hollistic health care will be held Saturday at Chiang Mai" works just nicely.

[shemmy]

You guys have obviously lived in Thailand long enough to adopt the Thai way of thinking, as they have been trained to think, not questioning or provoking anything.

people post because they are provoked, differing opinions and versions of reality make things alittle more exciting. people and governments should be held in some way accountable, if not legally and least in the forum of public opinion, which at this point you seem to be severely limiting. The right of people to express their opinions, without invinging on others sense of being should not be silenced, being offended, slightly or disagreeing is life.

The Thai way of thinking is to defend the statis quo and to preserve face.If this means keeping a majority of the population in abject poverty alowing only those with money educational opurtunities they have no problem with it.They pretend to care for their fellow thai but the rich treat the poor just like the sothern whites treated the blacks,why do you think that a country that is may times older than the states has no social welfare system and untill recently no medical heath plan,buddy if you don't have $ in thailand you die.This saving face notion is why there is no accountability,why the &%#@* can't politicials be critisised ,are you a totalitarian state? critisism is a heal th thing in a free democratic society..........wake up

Minor edit

Edited January 7, 2004 by IT Manager

[george]

We have launched a VIP Live Chat for our registered members only.

Click on the "Live Chat" icon in the upper right on the screen"

OR

Click here to enter the VIP Live Chat

This must be great for political reasons! Your chat feedback is much appreciated.

[Butterfly]

We have launched a VIP Live Chat for our registered members only.

Click on the "Live Chat" icon in the upper right on the screen"

OR

Click here to enter the VIP Live Chat

This must be great for political reasons! Your chat feedback is much appreciated.

Why aren't you using invision version of chat, IPChat ? this java plugin thing makes me nervous and it does not work with Mozilla

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A couple of points to bear in mind, ######.

I've been living full time in Thailand since 1987 and have never even been to America. I'm not a part timer.

If someone were to break rule 5 while typing from the States, it is you who would be in the wrong. Anyone who's been here for more than five minutes knows how foolish it is to criticise the Thai royal family, and I wouldn't blame you for an instant for banning the offender. Reporting them to Thai authorities is another matter. In the process, you are almost certainly violating US laws regarding freedom of speech etc. and might end up on the wrong end of a law suit.

The good news is that I've never seen a post that breaks your rule and doubt if any members would do so.

Sorry David, I have to disagree with you. A number of postings could well be Les Majeste. Obviously they are removed asap.

[mijan24]

SHEMMY - SORRY BUT i MUST DISAGREE WITH YOU!

IN MY EXPERIENCE THAIS WILL & DO DISAGREE BUT NOT IN THE INCORRECT FORUM. - I SUPPOSE WE COULD SAY IT IS PROGRESSIVE AND MODERN TO SREAM, RANT AND OFTEN RAVE IN PUBLIC AND THEN AGAIN WE COULD SAY ITS CHILDISH AND DOES NOT ACHIEVE ANY LONG TERM QUALITY OUTCOMES.

ON YOUR POINT OF THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS - NAME A COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT ENJOY THIS SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

PAPUA NEW GUINEA SPRINGS TO MIND AS I LOOK BACK AND CONTEMPLATE WHAT A GREAT JOB WE "AUST,DUTCH,GERMAN, MAJOR CONGLOMERATES HAVE DONE IN SHOWING THEM HOW TO EXPRESS ONES SELF FREELY. NOW WE HAVE A COUNTRY ON OUR NORTHERN DOORSTEP THAT CALLS "RAPISTS, MURDERERS, GANGSTERS, ETC RASCALS MAYBE WE CALL THEM "LITTLE RASCALS" AS A TERM OF ENDEARMENT SINCE WE LIBERALISED THEM FROM A SIMPLE WAN TOK SYSTEM WHERE YOUR NEXT MEAL WAS A CLOSE AS THE NEXT VILLAGE.

HAPPY HUNTING

MIJAN24

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is your cap lock stuck ? Get a new keyboard if it is.

[mijan24]

Posted on Tue 2004-01-06, 22:59:22

  Is your cap lock stuck ? Get a new keyboard if it is.

Sorry about that Dr and fellow forum readers, I must have been thinking in a loud voice whilst typing my comments for Shemmy.

Regards

Mijan24

[dr_Pat_Pong]

No problems Mijan