Iran sentences American citizens to 8 years in prison for espionage, illegal entry

[up-country_sinclair]

No, of course they weren't spies for Israel or the US. Who doesn't enjoy a bit of backpacking on the Iran/Iraq border during a war? These 28 and 32 year old "kids" simply took a wrong turn and ended up in Iran. Ooops! Could happen to anyone.

Yeah & apparently there is a guy up on Martha's Vineyard stuffing his face with lobster drenched in butter who is not too concerned about it either.

Butter? The nerve!

Are you referring to the unabashed hypocrite, Mitt Romney?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8712163/Barack-Obama-criticised-by-Mitt-Romney-for-holidaying-on-Marthas-Vineyard.html

Or President Obama who has taken less than half of the vacation time his predecessor had taken by this point?

Obama 48

Bush 115

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/21/AR2010082102399.html

Facts are facts, snarky66. Even if you don't like them.

[Orac]

could it be that the Iranians weren't so stupid as to actually believe they are hikers?

Oh Naam dont be so suspicious

Have you not read all the comment of their personal friends here who know for a fact they are innocent?

Just a couple of kids like thousands of others who hike in the back way to Iran everyday

I bet that Raymond Davis guy probably hiked into Pakistan too.

Not too worry the US will probably bribe pay for their release soon like that Raymond fella

nobody knows whether they are innocent or not. however some plausible and rational reasons that they are not spies were posted by "geriatrickid". quite refreshing as opposed to the usual diverting and irrelevant BS posted (Insulted removed).

i just pointed out a possibility which is not necessarily my opinion. just some food for thoughts... what would have happened to some Iranians who crossed illegally the border to the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and then claimed to be hikers? in what "patriot act" prison would they be water boarded?

The US currently has around 11 million that went hiking in the US. I haven't heard of any of them being water boarded...have you???

First I have heard of 11 million Iranians currently hiking in the US let alone any of them being waterboarded.

[Scott]

A series of off-topic, inflammatory, argumentative posts has been removed, as well as replies to them.

The topic is NOT about Israel. It's also not about any individual poster.

Stay on topic.

[Ulysses G.]

Iran has an Islamic goverment.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Credo]

Most likely they were not spies, however, when you come from a country that is perceived to be the enemy, it's best to mind your P's & Q's. We saw a similar situation in Thailand along the border. Again, probably not spies, but past events dictated an unexpected turn of events.

Iraq and Iran have a strained and checkered past. The Kurds have problems with both. The hills and mountains in the area are littered with unexploded ordinances and land mines. Not the best place for leisurely stroll.

Spies are a high value commodity and usually don't make it to the open court or get into the news. They are traded for other things and are a type of political gold.

Waterboarding is reserved for terrorists, suspected terrorists, asssociates of terrorists and probably people wandering through a village where a terrorist lived.

[snarky66]

Facts are facts, snarky66. Even if you don't like them.

Much as I despise Teddy Roosevelt he would have known what to do unlike that lightweight they have in there now.

[flying]

Iran has an Islamic goverment.

Well that's that then

[Mosha]

Let us hope these "kids" haven't further polluted the gene pool.

[Wallaby]

Iran has an Islamic goverment.

Well that's that then

:lol: yes seems so.

I think most in the world are just as terrified of a US rendition to Gitmo as they are an Islamic country's jail. I don't know why anyone would worry though, they'll probably do a couple of months then some deal will be done and they'll be on their way either back to the US, or another hiking hotspot.

[mjnaus]

Iran has an Islamic goverment.

Ah, do they now?

[koheesti]

it is a shame no one has bothered to look into the students' backgrounds. These were a group that was very pro arab and sympathetic to Iran. They were active supporters of the anti war movement, supported various social "advancement" campaigns and were activists in the Palestine Solidarity Movement group. It is poetic justice that they are now held hostage by one of the groups they were sympathetic to. Perhaps this is why the Iranians think they are spies. In their eyes, how could any patriotic American support such groups?

Sarah Shourd worked with Iraqi war refugees in Syria and was no big fan of the US government and Shane Bauer wrote pro arab articles for various alternative news media outlets. Personally, I don't care about these prioners. They loved Kurdistan and the locals so much and now they get to spend 8 years learning to love the locals even more. I don't know why the US government should wast too much time on this lot. Let them rot.

I know that you know, but maybe some other readers do not - being pro-Arab will not endear anyone to the Persian leadership in Iran.

[koheesti]

what would have happened to some Iranians who crossed illegally the border to the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and then claimed to be hikers? in what "patriot act" prison would they be water boarded?

Well there is just that one water world prison known about...The one the current puppet promised to close when he was running for office.

And only two out of more than 1000 have been waterboarded.

[koheesti]

it is a shame no one has bothered to look into the students' backgrounds. These were a group that was very pro arab and sympathetic to Iran. They were active supporters of the anti war movement, supported various social "advancement" campaigns and were activists in the Palestine Solidarity Movement group. It is poetic justice that they are now held hostage by one of the groups they were sympathetic to. Perhaps this is why the Iranians think they are spies. In their eyes, how could any patriotic American support such groups?

Sarah Shourd worked with Iraqi war refugees in Syria and was no big fan of the US government and Shane Bauer wrote pro arab articles for various alternative news media outlets. Personally, I don't care about these prioners. They loved Kurdistan and the locals so much and now they get to spend 8 years learning to love the locals even more. I don't know why the US government should wast too much time on this lot. Let them rot.

Hmmm, And as a Brit I was always led to believe that Americans didn't do irony. Still I guess from your description of the background of those detained they will readily develop Stockholm syndrome whilst incarcerated, whilst if I was a self-hating peacenik I would be tempted to conclude they were indeed spies to stop my own head exploding.

Hmmm. If Iran is imprisoning Westerners sympathetic to them...and these prisoners develop the Stockholm Syndrome...after 8 years they might get arrested as spies when they return to the US.

[Wallaby]

what would have happened to some Iranians who crossed illegally the border to the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and then claimed to be hikers? in what "patriot act" prison would they be water boarded?

Well there is just that one water world prison known about...The one the current puppet promised to close when he was running for office.

And only two out of more than 1000 have been waterboarded.

According to whom? Surely you aren't relying on the US govt for anything truthful.

[koheesti]

what would have happened to some Iranians who crossed illegally the border to the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and then claimed to be hikers? in what "patriot act" prison would they be water boarded?

Well there is just that one water world prison known about...The one the current puppet promised to close when he was running for office.

And only two out of more than 1000 have been waterboarded.

According to whom? Surely you aren't relying on the US govt for anything truthful.

The US gov't was credible enough when they said that they had waterboarded someone. Anyway, if we do it to our own troops as part of training it's no big thing to do it to KSM.

Speaking of credible gov'ts - do you believe the Iranian gov't is being truthful on this?

[Steely Dan]

According to whom? Surely you aren't relying on the US govt for anything truthful.

In your quest to compare the U.S with the most odious regimes on earth perhaps you should think carefully about throwing stones in glass houses. How many Abo's do you think got wobbleboarded for going walkabout on white owned farmland?

[koheesti]

I think most in the world are just as terrified of a US rendition to Gitmo as they are an Islamic country's jail.

And that terror would be ridiculous and unfounded. Maybe they read too many left-wing blogs?

Tortured screams ring out as Iraqis take over Abu Ghraib

10 Sep 2006

Some of the small number of prisoners who remained in the jail after the Americans left said they had pleaded to go with their departing captors, rather than be left in the hands of Iraqi guards."The Americans were better than the Iraqis. They treated us better," said Khalid Alaani, who was held on suspicion of involvement in Sunni terrorism.

...The witness said that even in the thieves' section prisoners were being treated badly. "Someone was shouting 'Please help us, we want the human rights officers, we want the Americans to come back'," he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1528513/Tortured-screams-ring-out-as-Iraqis-take-over-Abu-Ghraib.html

I'd be willing to bet that 99.5% of the inmates at the below prisons would choose Gitmo over the other 9 on the list (Camp Delta, GITMO is on it). Keeping in mind that "notorious" doesn't mean horrible conditions because in GITMO they are coddled.

This list is a real wake up call for those who like to villify GITMO.

The ten most notorious jails in the world

April 28, 2008

http://www.timesonli...icle3832983.ece

Inside Iran's most notorious jail

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5077180.stm

Edited August 23, 2011 by koheesti

[Wallaby]

According to whom? Surely you aren't relying on the US govt for anything truthful.

In your quest to compare the U.S with the most odious regimes on earth perhaps you should think carefully about throwing stones in glass houses. How many Abo's do you think got wobbleboarded for going walkabout on white owned farmland?

Is this a thread on Aus aborigines? I don't seem to recal anyone justifying what happened to aborigines in the past, in fact our govt apologised for the treatment they received in the past.

I think it is quite pertinent to compare the US to Iran as it is Hilary making comment. I didn't know the oz govt commented on this issue so I don't see the point you are making about glass houses.

In Iran the hikers were brought to court and received a sentence. How many in Gitmo have been afforded that luxury? How long have they been held without charge? How many have been allowed to see a lawyer? How many of their families don't even know they are there? How many are tortured on the orders of GWB.

Seems a bit rich for Hilary to be throwing stones at other countries when her own country doesn't exactly play nice.

[Scott]

A number of off-topic posts have been deleted as well as replies. Stay on-topic or warnings and suspension of posting ability will follow.

Hint: Stop bickering.

[Steely Dan]

According to whom? Surely you aren't relying on the US govt for anything truthful.

In your quest to compare the U.S with the most odious regimes on earth perhaps you should think carefully about throwing stones in glass houses. How many Abo's do you think got wobbleboarded for going walkabout on white owned farmland?

Is this a thread on Aus aborigines? I don't seem to recal anyone justifying what happened to aborigines in the past, in fact our govt apologised for the treatment they received in the past.

I think it is quite pertinent to compare the US to Iran as it is Hilary making comment. I didn't know the oz govt commented on this issue so I don't see the point you are making about glass houses.

In Iran the hikers were brought to court and received a sentence. How many in Gitmo have been afforded that luxury? How long have they been held without charge? How many have been allowed to see a lawyer? How many of their families don't even know they are there? How many are tortured on the orders of GWB.

Seems a bit rich for Hilary to be throwing stones at other countries when her own country doesn't exactly play nice.

This has no more to do with Gitmo than it does to the treatment of the Australian Aborigines that's my point. To conjoin the two is to follow Iran's commentary hook line and sinker. They are trying to make political capital out of the naive actions of three backpackers. The admitted waterboarding of a couple of prisoners at Gitmo pales into insignificance compared to the Sharia human rights nightmare of Iran complete with stonings for adultery or amputations for theft.

And though waterboarding and the like is also not strictly relevant I prefer the views of one of your fellow Australian politicians who said on a talkshow.

"If hooking up one rag head terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Australian life, then I have only three things to say: Red is positive, Black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet."

Edited August 23, 2011 by Steely Dan

[Ulysses G.]

I think most in the world are just as terrified of a US rendition to Gitmo as they are an Islamic country's jail.

If you are rerring to "most" terrorists then you are probably right. Gitmo is a cakewalk compared to jails run by most Islamic rigimes. However, only terrorists (and paranoid lunatics) are afraid of going to to Gitmo which is the way it is supposed to be.

[Scott]

Off topic posts have been deleted. The thread is not about Gitmo.

[Scott]

I note that this topic has deteriorated down to a personal mud slinging match between a couple of posters who are well overdue for a posting holiday.

If you have nothing to say about the topic, you are under no obligation to continue to post.

I very much doubt that opinions are going to change, regardless of how far off-topic you take your argument.

//Closed for clean up//