Poll Regarding Expat Expenditure In Thailand

[chiangmaibruce]

Seriously now, this is totally back-of-an-envelope stuff, and even I can't believe the size of the numbers … I must have made a gazillion

mistakes … but the source of the supporting data is as follows:

Spending by international tourists in Thailand (2010)

592,794.09 million baht

(Source:

http://www.tourism.g...rism.php?cid=30)

Spending by resident foreigners within Thailand (Thaivisa survey 2011)

Median living expenses 1500 baht day x 365 x 300,000 expats = 164,250,000,000 per annum

In addition the mean capital expenditure by each foreigner household was 3 million baht. Dividing this by the average length of residence (7 years) = 428,571 baht per household. But as the average foreigner household size is unknown, a total expenditure figure cannot be calculated at this time. Further, real estate purchased in the name of a foreigner is already included in the Bank of Thailand's IIP data as shown below.

Foreign investment in Thailand

223,754 million USD = 7272005000000 baht Using a currency conversion rate 32.5 (as of around mid-2010)

(Source: Bank of Thailand

International Investment Position Report - to end 2009)

http://www.bot.or.th/English/EconomicConditions/Survey/reportEN/IIPSurvey_E.pdf

Purchase of Thai exports – annual receipts to end 2010

6,176,302.05 million baht

(Source:

http://www2.bot.or.t...58&language=eng)

Remittance by Thai people from overseas in 2010

(Mainly comprising salaries paid by foreigners) 55,792 million baht

(Source:

http://www2.bot.or.t...11&language=eng)

And by way of a point of comparison, total GDP of Thailand 2010 = 10.1048 trillion baht

(Source: http://www2.bot.or.th/statistics/BOTWEBSTAT.aspx?reportID=409&language=ENG)

OK now, on your marks, get set, go! (ahead and shoot it down in flames) :jap:

Edited September 1, 2011 by chiangmaibruce

[StreetCowboy]

Oops, looks like our little survey made it into the media. This is freshly translated & hot off the newswire:

Ministry Secretary Somchai Huayai, announced today the results of a multi-agency investigation into movements of vast amounts of foreign-sourced capital into Thailand.

"To give an idea of the scale of the various transactions we have uncovered, I can tell you that we have already identified in excess of 14.26 trillion baht that have either been brought into the country by foreigners, or which otherwise result from the actions of foreign interests. We can only speculate as to what the foreigners involved are planning, but credible evidence suggest that they are acting in concert with the Cambodians in a systematic effort to de-stabilise the Thai economy. Movements of capital of this scale and magnitude pose a grave threat to Thai sovereignity, and we must act swiftly and decisively to remove ourselves from this danger", said Mr HuaYai.

Apparently the final missing link in this plot was only uncovered this week after a Ministry operative was able to infiltrate a notorious online foreigner forum known as 'Thaivisa' in order to gather further vital evidence.

Mr Huayai closed today's media conference with the observation that, "It was only in March this year that Suthep Thaugsuban, Deputy-Prime Minister at the time, stated that foreigners were not to be trusted. Today's shocking announcement is certainly consistent with that notion, and is a strong reminder of the need for continued vigilance against those who would harm us".

The Ministry released details of the mysterious foreign capital movements, which were as follows:

Type of capital incursion by foreigners (Value in Thai baht)

Annual spending by international tourists in Thailand (592,794,090,000)

Annual spending by resident foreigners in Thailand (164,250,000,000)

Annual investment by foreigners in Thailand (7,272,005,000,000)

Annual purchase of Thai exports by foreigners (6,176,302,050,000)

Annual remittance by Thais living overseas (55,792,000,000)

Total 14,261,143,140,000 baht

Further details available from the Ministry for Assigning Scapegoats: [email protected]

You'll be wishing you'd posted a satyr in your signature, when the MAS come calling. I take it you didn't look very hard to see if there was such a body before you posted this...

It seems a little surprising that the Exports + Capital Inflows exceed the GDP, but the money-go-round makes my head spin, so I don't know if its credible or not.

Otherwise, the numbers seem credible; tourism ~ 5% of GDP - high, but possible

Exports~ 60% of GDP? Possible, but then I guess a lot of that washes out again in purchase of materials and components for manufactured goods

Inward salaries remmitance from Overseas Workers 0.5% - probably significantly under-accounted...

Resident expats contribute one third of tourist revenues? I reckon this is where you need a bigger fag-packet...

Where does the 300,000 expats number come from? Does it include ex-pat Burmese on Non-Visas? Or even the legitimate Burmese and Cambodians?

If so, then the TV survey may not be a representative sample. Also remember that a lot of the TV membership are long-term tourist, non-resident...

SC

[chiangmaibruce]

Don't worry SC, I have a relative who is very high up in the MAS and who will look out for me

Yes, there are outflows as well, for example investments overseas by Thais, purchases of imports, etc.

The average daily spend by tourists is noted by me earlier in this thread - more than 4,000 baht per day so well exceeds expat average spend

The number of expats is in a paper I linked to earlier in this thread ... see www.burning-bison.com/expats.htm ... 300,000 is probably on the conservative side and does not include folks from Myanmar

The Thaivisa survey required people to have been resident for at least a year ... although a few naughty ones may have slipped through

[letitbe]

The average expat here I think spends 60-70k a month from what I've read. Some poorer members may not report due to shame, some richer guys may report due to bragging.

Some guys simply lie.

That's a stupid statement if ever I've seen one. 60/70k a month maybe easily in BKK if you live the high life, slightly less in other major cities. Much less out in the sticks! Shame/bragging??

Showing ignorance there Chops, sry.

nonsense 2 kids at good school 40,000 a month 2 cars petrol repairs 12,000 a month maid gardener 9,000 a month house repairs maintenance 10,000 a month medical 4 people average 10,000 a month including dentist food ok quality food 40,000 a month for 4 people household consumables soap toothpaste cleaning etc around 5-7,000 a month replacement cars every 10 years around 20,000 per month electricity ok 8 air con around 7,000 a month personal budget wife self 2 teenage children around 25,000 a month eating out only 4,000 a month total around 200,000 a month without holidays or trips Ok we live very well and have a high standard of living. but please dont say 70,000 is plenty for 4 people with 2 teenage children at good school. We dont even pay rent or support any extended family.

[LivinLOS]

In Phuket for the past four years we would easily spend 120/130k a month, now in Chiang Mai for the past eight weeks and we spend around 80k a month. A range of 50 to 90k sounds to me like it would capture 80% of folks although it's unlikely to include many of the Phuket and possibly Bangkok crowd.

Thats exactly my approx budget..

Phuket was 120k a month min.. Some months 150 but clearly not on necessities just party and allowing myself to not worry about it. The 120k was budget, more was just fun.

In CM I am closer to 80.. Even tho I spend more than many would argue is smart on renting a large place, garden and gardeners, pool and pool help, etc.. But even with that monthly nut to cover its closer to 80 (if you take out the fact I have bought some dirtbikes / toys).

Just less temptations up here and what are here are more competitively priced.

[LivinLOS]

One aspect where I can see the poll has a grey areas is it doesnt balance the lump sum input against the daily spend..

If person A has brought no lump sum into Thailand but drops 150k a month on his bangkok life so 1.8 mil a year.

Or person B had brought 6 mil in, bought his land and house, has few costs or outgoings..

One shows small spend but bigger input.. the other show big daily but smaller investment.

[grahamhc]

Some poorer members may not report due to shame, some richer guys may report due to bragging.

Those points are totally silly. It is an ANONYMOUS poll!

I would have suggested for the first question saying EXCLUDING rent for people who do rent.

I think many people who do rent would tend to include daily rent in their basic daily expenses. If so, your poll becomes even more meaningless. Trust me, all thaivisa polls are meaningless, but some more than others.

Valid point over rent. I excluded that money.

I based my daily average by dividing a year's personal expenditure by 365 days, as some months good and others bad, like car insurance renewal, and came out with 1,912 per day.

Nor did I include the emergency medical expenses, not covered by BUPA/Blue Cross, (which I have now cancelled as no other items covered left in my favour) - which I paid from UK savings.

[Atmos]

What does the standard UK pension/superannuation pay per month?

Guessing there are a few people living here with no other income to supplement this based on comments each time the GBP slips v the baht?

Edited September 4, 2011 by Atmos

[Jerrytheyoung]

A basic second hand pick up cost at least 200k so even if you rent only your home, you should spend between 100 and 500k for a decent car. Maybe people spending less than 100k are bangkokians using BTS? Should have been interesting to isolate Bangkok from the rest it will be more comprehensive....

[brianb1944]

Whats it got to do with anybody who earns what. Who cares anyway, only the lefty liberal whingers.

What on earth is your problem, you have something to hide? fine, dont answer the question. No need to get all snarly about it.

[brianb1944]

The average expat here I think spends 60-70k a month from what I've read. Some poorer members may not report due to shame, some richer guys may report due to bragging.

Some guys simply lie.

That's a stupid statement if ever I've seen one. 60/70k a month maybe easily in BKK if you live the high life, slightly less in other major cities. Much less out in the sticks! Shame/bragging??

Showing ignorance there Chops, sry.

nonsense 2 kids at good school 40,000 a month 2 cars petrol repairs 12,000 a month maid gardener 9,000 a month house repairs maintenance 10,000 a month medical 4 people average 10,000 a month including dentist food ok quality food 40,000 a month for 4 people household consumables soap toothpaste cleaning etc around 5-7,000 a month replacement cars every 10 years around 20,000 per month electricity ok 8 air con around 7,000 a month personal budget wife self 2 teenage children around 25,000 a month eating out only 4,000 a month total around 200,000 a month without holidays or trips Ok we live very well and have a high standard of living. but please dont say 70,000 is plenty for 4 people with 2 teenage children at good school. We dont even pay rent or support any extended family.

Now that is bragging, and good luck to you if you can afford all those "necessities" I live very well with my wife, in rental accommodation, daughter at Uni, son in Govt school, supply modest support to in laws,have an active social life, and only about 70/80,000 per month

[blazes]

The average expat here I think spends 60-70k a month from what I've read. Some poorer members may not report due to shame, some richer guys may report due to bragging.

Some guys simply lie.

That's a stupid statement if ever I've seen one. 60/70k a month maybe easily in BKK if you live the high life, slightly less in other major cities. Much less out in the sticks! Shame/bragging??

Showing ignorance there Chops, sry.

nonsense 2 kids at good school 40,000 a month 2 cars petrol repairs 12,000 a month maid gardener 9,000 a month house repairs maintenance 10,000 a month medical 4 people average 10,000 a month including dentist food ok quality food 40,000 a month for 4 people household consumables soap toothpaste cleaning etc around 5-7,000 a month replacement cars every 10 years around 20,000 per month electricity ok 8 air con around 7,000 a month personal budget wife self 2 teenage children around 25,000 a month eating out only 4,000 a month total around 200,000 a month without holidays or trips Ok we live very well and have a high standard of living. but please dont say 70,000 is plenty for 4 people with 2 teenage children at good school. We dont even pay rent or support any extended family.

Sorry, but I can't help observing that this expenditure is so fkn crass. Why do you have to spend that kind of money? You are the only one in all the replies I have read so far that finds it necessary to spend in that kind of extravagant way.

I suspect there are a lot of people on here who have incomes of at least 200k per month (after all, it is only about 6,600 dollars per month, which most N American retirees are probably bringing in), but refrain from living in that kind of way......

[RAZZELL]

The average expat here I think spends 60-70k a month from what I've read. Some poorer members may not report due to shame, some richer guys may report due to bragging.

Some guys simply lie.

That's a stupid statement if ever I've seen one. 60/70k a month maybe easily in BKK if you live the high life, slightly less in other major cities. Much less out in the sticks! Shame/bragging??

Showing ignorance there Chops, sry.

nonsense 2 kids at good school 40,000 a month 2 cars petrol repairs 12,000 a month maid gardener 9,000 a month house repairs maintenance 10,000 a month medical 4 people average 10,000 a month including dentist food ok quality food 40,000 a month for 4 people household consumables soap toothpaste cleaning etc around 5-7,000 a month replacement cars every 10 years around 20,000 per month electricity ok 8 air con around 7,000 a month personal budget wife self 2 teenage children around 25,000 a month eating out only 4,000 a month total around 200,000 a month without holidays or trips Ok we live very well and have a high standard of living. but please dont say 70,000 is plenty for 4 people with 2 teenage children at good school. We dont even pay rent or support any extended family.

Sorry, but I can't help observing that this expenditure is so fkn crass. Why do you have to spend that kind of money? You are the only one in all the replies I have read so far that finds it necessary to spend in that kind of extravagant way.

I suspect there are a lot of people on here who have incomes of at least 200k per month (after all, it is only about 6,600 dollars per month, which most N American retirees are probably bringing in), but refrain from living in that kind of way......

Why is it "crass" to spend money?

If you can afford it why not?

RAZZ

[anterian]

I spend more on smokes than I do on food, namely 20 to 30 miniature cigars per day (Cafe creme) at about 20 Baht each.

[chiang mai]

It's not crass to spend at the level, but it is somewhat crass to discuss it in detail in a thread such as this - most people who are "off the scale" have stayed politely quiet.

[McGarty]

Some poorer members may not report due to shame, some richer guys may report due to bragging.

Those points are totally silly. It is an ANONYMOUS poll!

I would have suggested for the first question saying EXCLUDING rent for people who do rent.

I think many people who do rent would tend to include daily rent in their basic daily expenses. If so, your poll becomes even more meaningless. Trust me, all thaivisa polls are meaningless, but some more than others.

I agree. Rent, electric, water, food, cigs, beer etcetera are basic outlays. Paying the g/f 6k a month is also a basic outlay. Without rent or the g/f I would be able to manage on 1,000 a day but get little or no sex

That makes the basic outlay hard to configure.

[grahamhc]

What does the standard UK pension/superannuation pay per month?

Guessing there are a few people living here with no other income to supplement this based on comments each time the GBP slips v the baht?

The basic state pension in the UK is about £97.00 per week or 4,600 baht at today's FX rate. Depending what contributions they have paid, but a neighbour has been advised he will get £146 per week (7,000 Baht).

4,600 x 52 = 239,200. This is a big shortfall from the required 800,000 Baht by Immigration to get a visa extension, so one needs savings here in the bank as well. Or revert to "Buying" an Extension (which we do not talk about, as that "Cannot" happen).

When I get my state pension, it will be supplemented by my Company Pension and property rental income from the UK - A method I already use and accepted by Immigration (Co Pen + HR).

Edited September 5, 2011 by grahamhc

[Atmos]

^ thanks - we had a neighbour whose sole income was UK pension, I guessed from what he said it was around 20k per month, he was very aware of the impact of the baht v GBP having moved here in 'the good old days' 2005 when it was a much better exchange rate.

He's 70s, has a freehold house, car, the 800k in the bank, remains single, so I guess 20k is enough for his daily living expenses, but could be desperate in case of big unexpected medical/car/house expenses.

Still, as he says, 'better being old here than there'

Edited September 5, 2011 by Atmos

[Firefan]

I have friends living on about 30.000 Baht a month (incl. rent, single in Bangkok) and others spending in the 200.000-300.000 Baht/month range (but generally covers international school, expenses related to entire family like travel Etc. - many hard to "divide per person" as requested by this poll).

Personally I am comfortable with paid condo and car, and an additional 30-50k Baht/mth in average (single in Bangkok). This is based on actual spending over couple of years - so it DOES include stuff that many forget (because yearly payment) such as health insurance(and meds/treatment not covered incl. supplements), visa costs, sports memberships, repairs/maintenance of all kind of stuff, replacing PCs/phones, sports gear, clothes, travel Etc.

Cheers!

[nocturn]

I live quite frugally in Bangkok

15K Rent

10K Nanny/Maid

6K Elec

15K food

5K Household items

15K School for kid

2K internet/seedbox/vpn

And that is without even trying and taking into consideration the rent on my 2 bedroom house on lower Sukhumvit has not increased in the last 10 years and that the cheapest 2 bed apartment nearby would cost me 35k minimum if i had to move and wanted to stay in the neighborhood.

throw in a couple meals out a week, clothing for the kid etc, and its not hard to hit 100k +

Nanny/maid is not a luxury, my child is only with her mother one night a week over the weekend.

It adds up quick