Grand Plan To Funnel Water To Dry Thailand's Northeast

[webfact]

Grand plan to funnel water to dry Northeast

By Chularat Saengpassa

Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

Bt100-billion move to irrigate 34m rai, part of Bt1.7-trillion four-year scheme

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has announced a Bt100-billion policy to funnel water from the Central region to the less fertile Northeast, as part of a large-scale national water-management scheme.

She also announced a Bt300-billion plan for rubber plantations in the Northeast.

The "Development Plans For 20 Basins" scheme aims at developing 60 million rai of irrigated land throughout the country to its full potential. It was accepted in principle by the Surayud Chulanont government and will be approved by Cabinet in the near future.

At a briefing recently at the Royal Irrigation Department, which will implement the scheme, Yingluck said it "corresponded well" with Pheu Thai plans to develop river basins in Isaan, along with two costly policies aimed at benefiting people in the Northeast, who are strong supporters of the party.

Rubber plantations in the Northeast are booming following heavy promotions by PTP rival Newin Chidchob and his Bhum Jai Thai Party, which joined the Democrat government before the July 3 election, and is now with the Democrat-led opposition.

Before the PM openly supported the Bt300-billion policy both prior to and during the RID briefing, PTP was planning to win over more northeasterners and support from BJP supporters, based mainly in Buri Ram and the lower Northeast, through this water management scheme.

The scheme was worked out by the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB) and included in the 11th NESD Plan. Its implementation must be environmentally and ecologically friendly while involving full-scale public |participation through involvement of the government, private and public sectors. Only 28 million of the 320 million rai of land in farming and residential areas is sufficiently irrigated with regular amounts - with 75,500 million cubic metres (units) - of water in dams, reservoirs and irrigation gates. Once the scheme is implemented, there will be another 34 million rai of irrigated land and another 26,600 million units of water available each year.

The entire scheme, which should cost Bt1.731 trillion over the four-year period of the 11th NESD Plan which begins next year, will also make another 35m rai of land available adjacent to the 34m rai available during the seasonal or annual peak tides.

The basins are divided into groups in accordance with geographic locations. But no details have been given on which will be implemented, in what order or if there are any preferences.

Water management to prevent flooding will top the agenda for the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry to try to mitigate damage from disasters.

Minister Preecha Rengsomboon said yesterday he had told the Water Resources Department to study water management in 25 basins, especially in nine provinces - Sukhothai, Phrae, Nan, Uttaradit, Nakhon Phanom, Mukdahan, Ubon Ratchathani, Yala and Pattani - as they needed urgent measures to tackle flooding.

The ministry will spend Bt200 billion to support water management projects and extend irrigation districts.

However, he said the ministry would not step forward [as yet] to construct Kaeng Sue Ten Dam in Phrae to prevent flooding in Sukhothai and lower northern regions.

"We need to conduct studies to find out how the dam will benefit local people and prevent flooding," Preecha explained.

"The Kaeng Sue Ten Dam would not be the only solution to prevent flooding in Sukhothai and other provinces in the lower northern region."

Building small dams or reservoirs to store water in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Phrae and Nan would help provinces in the lower North to reduce the impact of floods. "We must [learn more about] the direction of water to see how we can handle flooding," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-08-30

[rakman]

Water flows downhill. Pumping water up hill is expensive, and requires maintenance of the pumps and canals or pipes.

A California legislator once proposed sending water from Alaska to California. His reasoning was it was downhill all the way.

[pedro01]

Well - having been to Nakhorn Phanom/Sakhorn Nakhon I have to say the place is bone dry & this would be a boon if they could get properly irrigated.

Look at the irrigation in Petchanburi - it makes a huge difference.

[thaimat]

Well - having been to Nakhorn Phanom/Sakhorn Nakhon I have to say the place is bone dry & this would be a boon if they could get properly irrigated.

Look at the irrigation in Petchanburi - it makes a huge difference.

Scheme is the right word. B1.7 trillion? Is this a joke? I have one word for the schemers-reservoirs! When you have large sections of the country under flood part of the year, then bone dry the rest of the year, as Pedro01 states, isn't it simple logic to find a way to save your rainwater? America, dead broke (sound familiar?) after the stock market collapse and WW1, still built reservoirs all over the country, to combat years of drought. This totally changed that country's farming capacity for the next century plus. So if they want to solve the problem here, there is the solution. If they just want a scheme that keeps their own constituents poor, they have proposed a good one.

[virtualtraveller]

Well, the Isarn vote needs to be rewarded. But irrigation is one decent way to improve lives in a sustainable manner. There's no shortage of water in Thailand it just needs to be stored for the dry season and funnelled to the right areas.

[Bagwan]

Quote :- "We must [learn more about] the direction of water to see how we can handle flooding," he said. Unquote.

Don't they know that already? Are they going to play Pooh Sticks to find out? I offer a small clue - water, indeed any liquid, finds it's own level. I find it difficult to believe that some of these officials are as stupid as some of their remarks and comments make them appear to be.

P.S. Please note that the inclusion of square brackets in the quote are not my work. What they are doing there is beyond my ken.

[asdecas]

If they hadn't logged out the native trees forty years ago (with the usual concomitant short-sighted greed and corruption) and replaced them with non-native eucalypts, thus modifying the local ecosystem, perhaps they wouldn't have to spend such enormous sums on water management.

[mijan24]

Well, the Isarn vote needs to be rewarded. But irrigation is one decent way to improve lives in a sustainable manner. There's no shortage of water in Thailand it just needs to be stored for the dry season and funnelled to the right areas.

This is so true and not only here in Thailand - Everywhere you go RAINWATER just runs away causing untold damage - if only it could be saved "for a dry day" - this being a world wide problem it should be addressed a such not individual countries setting up schemes that flounder due to poor planning and corruption(read here skyping off the money).

[maidu]

This type of plan has been discussed for decades. A pilot system of large diameter steel pipes were installed, and they found sand building up in parts, rendering it inoperable. Thais are not master engineers.

Smarter than trying to transferring water, would be to replace some of the water water guzzling rice fields with plants that need less water. Some thoughts:

>>> A nut producing tree which yields in its 4th year, easy to propagate, can handle drought and poor soils. I call it Brazil Noi The nuts are similar to Brazil nuts but smaller (but more of them), tasty, nutritious, and would sell for as much as cashews in the market.

>>> agave, not for its traditional use (making tequila), but for making ethanol. Better than corn, and about as good a yield as sugar cane, it can handle dry conditions and marginal soils.

>>> hemp. Though still illegal in Thailand (because of US pressure), though legal to farm in China, Canada, Australia and most of Europe), it has many uses and applications: not just rope, but also clothing, furniture (Volvo uses it to stuff its seats), oil (packed with omega vitamins!), seed (a breakfast cereal in Canada). Even its dried stalks can be used as fuel. High yields per acre even on dry marginal soil.

Rice not only needs mega amounts of water, it is also heavily sprayed with chemicals (yes, ALL the rice you eat in Thailand has residual harmful chemicals on it!). The rice served in 99% of Thai dishes is mostly just starch, with scant little real nutrition. If Thais wanted a nutritious field crop and were able to think outside the box, hemp is better than rice in every category.

[Xonax]

B1.7 trillion - What a joke!!!! :lol:

NO way this price can be real! Put B1.7 trillion in the bank, and the interest alone will be able to feed each and every person in Thailand with imported rice!

It would be much cheaper to just build some local reservoirs, to collect rain water in the rainy season and distribute it to the fields in the dry season.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Xonax

[RickBradford]

This type of plan has been discussed for decades. A pilot system of large diameter steel pipes were installed, and they found sand building up in parts, rendering it inoperable. Thais are not master engineers.

Smarter than trying to transferring water, would be to replace some of the water water guzzling rice fields with plants that need less water. Some thoughts:

>>> A nut producing tree which yields in its 4th year, easy to propagate, can handle drought and poor soils. I call it Brazil Noi The nuts are similar to Brazil nuts but smaller (but more of them), tasty, nutritious, and would sell for as much as cashews in the market.

>>> agave, not for its traditional use (making tequila), but for making ethanol. Better than corn, and about as good a yield as sugar cane, it can handle dry conditions and marginal soils.

>>> hemp. Though still illegal in Thailand (because of US pressure), though legal to farm in China, Canada, Australia and most of Europe), it has many uses and applications: not just rope, but also clothing, furniture (Volvo uses it to stuff its seats), oil (packed with omega vitamins!), seed (a breakfast cereal in Canada). Even its dried stalks can be used as fuel. High yields per acre even on dry marginal soil.

Rice not only needs mega amounts of water, it is also heavily sprayed with chemicals (yes, ALL the rice you eat in Thailand has residual harmful chemicals on it!). The rice served in 99% of Thai dishes is mostly just starch, with scant little real nutrition. If Thais wanted a nutritious field crop and were able to think outside the box, hemp is better than rice in every category.

Another good crop along these lines is jatropha, which is an expert at living under harsh conditions and is already widely used in biodiesel (Air NZ flew a jet on 50% jatropha recently). I wanted to grow some on my plantation, but was discouraged from doing so as there are no processing plants nearby. It is grown in some parts of Thailand already, though.

I gotta try me some of that hemp breakfast cereal, sounds like a good way to start the day.

[thaibeachlovers]

B1.7 trillion - What a joke!!!! :lol:

NO way this price can be real! Put B1.7 trillion in the bank, and the interest alone will be able to feed each and every person in Thailand with imported rice!

It would be much cheaper to just build some local reservoirs, to collect rain water in the rainy season and distribute it to the fields in the dry season.

If you actually think this is about water, you haven't been in Thailand long enough!

The new boys ( and girl ) are in town, and it's their turn now.

[thaimat]

If they hadn't logged out the native trees forty years ago (with the usual concomitant short-sighted greed and corruption) and replaced them with non-native eucalypts, thus modifying the local ecosystem, perhaps they wouldn't have to spend such enormous sums on water management.

Well said, I'd further that by saying that not only do they love to log out the native trees, they usually clear cut the land, then scour it clean of all plant life, no matter the land's future use. Talk about poor planning, shooting yourself in the foot, and compounding the problem! They remove all the trees, then wonder why they get droughts. Now they are proposing doing the same, and planting millions of rubber trees, which do relatively little that is positive for the environment. Too proud to bring in outside professionals, it seems like some politician comes up with these plans that simply make the matter worse.

[thaimat]

Quote :- "We must [learn more about] the direction of water to see how we can handle flooding," he said. Unquote.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[scotbeve]

This type of plan has been discussed for decades. A pilot system of large diameter steel pipes were installed, and they found sand building up in parts, rendering it inoperable. Thais are not master engineers.

Smarter than trying to transferring water, would be to replace some of the water water guzzling rice fields with plants that need less water. Some thoughts:

>>> A nut producing tree which yields in its 4th year, easy to propagate, can handle drought and poor soils. I call it Brazil Noi The nuts are similar to Brazil nuts but smaller (but more of them), tasty, nutritious, and would sell for as much as cashews in the market.

>>> agave, not for its traditional use (making tequila), but for making ethanol. Better than corn, and about as good a yield as sugar cane, it can handle dry conditions and marginal soils.

>>> hemp. Though still illegal in Thailand (because of US pressure), though legal to farm in China, Canada, Australia and most of Europe), it has many uses and applications: not just rope, but also clothing, furniture (Volvo uses it to stuff its seats), oil (packed with omega vitamins!), seed (a breakfast cereal in Canada). Even its dried stalks can be used as fuel. High yields per acre even on dry marginal soil.

Rice not only needs mega amounts of water, it is also heavily sprayed with chemicals (yes, ALL the rice you eat in Thailand has residual harmful chemicals on it!). The rice served in 99% of Thai dishes is mostly just starch, with scant little real nutrition. If Thais wanted a nutritious field crop and were able to think outside the box, hemp is better than rice in every category.

Maidu,

I'm glad you mentioned hemp... A resource that was made illegal by the big (several) corporations in the US in the 1930's. Much of the labor force for the timber, paper, textile, petroleum, and major manufacturing industries would be working with this resource instead of ( wait for it....) the environmentally damaging resources. It would have surpassed (as a resource) most of what I just mentioned and perhaps.... just perhaps..... the world economics would have been better off. Food (oh yeah! that's there too!!!) for thought.....

[Buchholz]

policy to funnel water from the Central region to the less fertile Northeast, as part of a large-scale national water-management scheme.

Water flows downhill. Pumping water up hill is expensive, and requires maintenance of the pumps and canals or pipes.

The Issan Plateau is at an elevation 200 meters higher than the surrounding Central region.

[OzMick]

This type of plan has been discussed for decades. A pilot system of large diameter steel pipes were installed, and they found sand building up in parts, rendering it inoperable. Thais are not master engineers.

Smarter than trying to transferring water, would be to replace some of the water water guzzling rice fields with plants that need less water. Some thoughts:

>>> A nut producing tree which yields in its 4th year, easy to propagate, can handle drought and poor soils. I call it Brazil Noi The nuts are similar to Brazil nuts but smaller (but more of them), tasty, nutritious, and would sell for as much as cashews in the market.

>>> agave, not for its traditional use (making tequila), but for making ethanol. Better than corn, and about as good a yield as sugar cane, it can handle dry conditions and marginal soils.

>>> hemp. Though still illegal in Thailand (because of US pressure), though legal to farm in China, Canada, Australia and most of Europe), it has many uses and applications: not just rope, but also clothing, furniture (Volvo uses it to stuff its seats), oil (packed with omega vitamins!), seed (a breakfast cereal in Canada). Even its dried stalks can be used as fuel. High yields per acre even on dry marginal soil.

Rice not only needs mega amounts of water, it is also heavily sprayed with chemicals (yes, ALL the rice you eat in Thailand has residual harmful chemicals on it!). The rice served in 99% of Thai dishes is mostly just starch, with scant little real nutrition. If Thais wanted a nutritious field crop and were able to think outside the box, hemp is better than rice in every category.

I think you better check your source re growing hemp in Australia. AFAIK there a few farms with special licence (Tassie?) for rope production (very low THC content) and a personal use law in SA which allows a few plants for personal use - and everywhere else its a big no-no.

[asdecas]

This type of plan has been discussed for decades. A pilot system of large diameter steel pipes were installed, and they found sand building up in parts, rendering it inoperable. Thais are not master engineers.

Smarter than trying to transferring water, would be to replace some of the water water guzzling rice fields with plants that need less water. Some thoughts:

>>> A nut producing tree which yields in its 4th year, easy to propagate, can handle drought and poor soils. I call it Brazil Noi The nuts are similar to Brazil nuts but smaller (but more of them), tasty, nutritious, and would sell for as much as cashews in the market.

>>> agave, not for its traditional use (making tequila), but for making ethanol. Better than corn, and about as good a yield as sugar cane, it can handle dry conditions and marginal soils.

>>> hemp. Though still illegal in Thailand (because of US pressure), though legal to farm in China, Canada, Australia and most of Europe), it has many uses and applications: not just rope, but also clothing, furniture (Volvo uses it to stuff its seats), oil (packed with omega vitamins!), seed (a breakfast cereal in Canada). Even its dried stalks can be used as fuel. High yields per acre even on dry marginal soil.

Rice not only needs mega amounts of water, it is also heavily sprayed with chemicals (yes, ALL the rice you eat in Thailand has residual harmful chemicals on it!). The rice served in 99% of Thai dishes is mostly just starch, with scant little real nutrition. If Thais wanted a nutritious field crop and were able to think outside the box, hemp is better than rice in every category.

I think you better check your source re growing hemp in Australia. AFAIK there a few farms with special licence (Tassie?) for rope production (very low THC content) and a personal use law in SA which allows a few plants for personal use - and everywhere else its a big no-no.

Yes, you're right, I've passed some hemp farms in Tassie - very tight security, and signage saying keep out and heavy fines for trespassing. You'd think it was opium poppies.

[OzMick]

policy to funnel water from the Central region to the less fertile Northeast, as part of a large-scale national water-management scheme.

Water flows downhill. Pumping water up hill is expensive, and requires maintenance of the pumps and canals or pipes.

The Issan Plateau is at an elevation 200 meters higher than the surrounding Central region.

Bloody Nora! has this fact escaped the genii of PTP. Better start building a few (hundred) power stations.

Rough calculation Potential energy gained by 1000 liters = m x g x h = 1000 x 9.8 x 200 = 2MJ = 0.5kwh Unfortunately that's with 100% motor and pump efficiency and no transmission losses.

[OzMick]

Before someone suggests it, if they build dams to catch the water, with hydro power stations to produce the power, that WILL NOT produce enough power to lift the tonnages of water described in the scheme.

[Sydebolle]

As an "old fart" I remember Chavalit Yongchaiyudhs proposal of "Green Isaan" or Isarn Kiew. Was lined up in the late 80s, zillions of Baht went down the (which) tube and the drought got worse.

[PaultheSeeker]

If you actually think this is about water, you haven't been in Thailand long enough!

The new boys ( and girl ) are in town, and it's their turn now.

Exactly!! It's all about funneling money into pockets. However, one of the faces isn't new (it's a big one), and it's got plenty of expertise gained from past projects such as Swampy Airport.

[Chinavet]

Deja vu yet again. Google "Thaksin water grid" for a wealth of information and history. I am not hopeful.

[thaimat]

Deja vu yet again. Google "Thaksin water grid" for a wealth of information and history. I am not hopeful.

It is indeed an old plan. Suwitt Khunkitti, then Thaksin's Deputy Prime Minister, was in charge of it. He is now the Natural Resources and Environment Minister. Lots of money going into the pipeline, selah, on cement, etc, so why scrap a very lucrative plan. :jap:

[ratcatcher]

Water flows downhill. Pumping water up hill is expensive, and requires maintenance of the pumps and canals or pipes.

A California legislator once proposed sending water from Alaska to California. His reasoning was it was downhill all the way.

Ah yes! That would be about right. A Californian thinking about water from Alaska. Oops, just remembered British Columbia and Yukon are in the way. Oh well, the Canadians have always had loads of water anyway. Got to have water in Ca. & Az. to keep the golf courses green.

Funneling water to Isaan would be easy if Isaan was lower than the presently flooded central plains. However what they really mean is pumping money into Isaan and a few friends pockets. An uphill battle as far as water is concerned. But money never seeps.

[Buchholz]

Deja vu yet again. Google "Thaksin water grid" for a wealth of information and history. I am not hopeful.

It is indeed an old plan. Suwitt Khunkitti, then Thaksin's Deputy Prime Minister, was in charge of it. He is now the Natural Resources and Environment Minister. Lots of money going into the pipeline, selah, on cement, etc, so why scrap a very lucrative plan. :jap:

and it doesn't get any more lucrative than 1,700,000,000,000.00 Baht

record-breaking corruption is on tap

.

[RickBradford]

And of course, Thailand's population has tripled in the last 50 years, which puts a considerable extra strain on water resources.

[maidu]

......if Thais wanted a nutritious field crop and were able to think outside the box, hemp is better than rice in every category.

Another good crop along these lines is jatropha, which is an expert at living under harsh conditions and is already widely used in biodiesel (Air NZ flew a jet on 50% jatropha recently). I wanted to grow some on my plantation, but was discouraged from doing so as there are no processing plants nearby. It is grown in some parts of Thailand already, though.

I gotta try me some of that hemp breakfast cereal, sounds like a good way to start the day.

I am growing jatropha and have about a bucket full of seed in 2nd year. I've heard (and seen photos of) jatropha seeds being pressed in to oil in a simple home-made crusher, a handyman can make at home for a few bucks. If anyone wants seed grown in Thailand, here's a link

I think you better check your source re growing hemp in Australia. AFAIK there a few farms with special licence (Tassie?) for rope production (very low THC content) and a personal use law in SA which allows a few plants for personal use - and everywhere else its a big no-no.

a quote from wikipedia, "The world-leading producer of hemp is China, with smaller production in Europe, Chile and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Over 30 countries produce industrial hemp, including Australia, Austria, Canada, Great Britain, France, Russia and Spain."

Thailand allows no hemp farming because Uncle Sam dictates Thai's laws on drugs, altho the Americans are slowly coming to their senses re; growing hemp,

In case anyone thinks hemp is the same as marijuana or ganja, it's not. Hemp is related, but has such a tiny amount of THC as to render it useless as a drug. It's like comparing tomatoes or potatoes to belladonna. They're in the same plant family - one gets you stoned, the others can't.

[Crushdepth]

Water flows downhill. Pumping water up hill is expensive, and requires maintenance of the pumps and canals or pipes.

A California legislator once proposed sending water from Alaska to California. His reasoning was it was downhill all the way.

Ah yes! That would be about right. A Californian thinking about water from Alaska. Oops, just remembered British Columbia and Yukon are in the way. Oh well, the Canadians have always had loads of water anyway. Got to have water in Ca. & Az. to keep the golf courses green.

Funneling water to Isaan would be easy if Isaan was lower than the presently flooded central plains. However what they really mean is pumping money into Isaan and a few friends pockets. An uphill battle as far as water is concerned. But money never seeps.

It seems to seep in Thailand?

[lannarebirth]

This is a forty year old scheme stemming from when the Army m/l controlled Isaan. Chavlit had his "Green Isaan" plan and it was proven wholly unfeasable. What with the Chinese damming the Mekong everywhere, I expect it is even more unfeasable now. Many Isaan farmers have yet to get restitution for how previous schemes ruined their livlihoods. Looks like a good earner for highly placed foks though. 1.7 Trillion, WOW!