Wish To Take Children To Falangland

[Clive]

Hello I have 3 infant age children and I have recently divorced.

My ex wife has basically 'given' my children to her grandmother but I wish to bring the children to falang land for a far brtter lifesytle and education.

She has denied me all contact with the children. I was wondering if I could apply through the Thai courst to 'force' her to allow me to return to falang land with the children and if so what would be the chances of winning?

Just to add the children have dual passports

Many thanks....clive

[craigt3365]

Let's try this over in the Family and Children forum.

[7by7]

As far as I'm aware there are two ways of settling custody in Thailand;

• Mutual agreement at an ampur
• Through the courts.

I guess from what you say that the first isn't an option.

When my wife divorced her first husband he would not agree custody at an ampur (not because he was interested in the children, but because...well, I'd better not say; this is a family forum!) so she had to go through the courts; a fairly lengthy process which took, if memory serves, nearly a year. However this was mainly because her ex kept not showing up so the court kept adjourning the hearing until they lost patience with him and heard the case in his absence.

Whether the Thai courts would consider granting custody to a Farang father who intended to take the children out of Thailand to live instead of to their Thai mother I don't know; but you'd certainly need a lawyer.

Some may advise that as they have dual nationality then you should simply grab them and go. I'm not sure on the legality of that either in Thailand or western countries. As you don't have custody I'd be very wary of such action. See Abductions to the UK for some info on this.

[Mario2008]

It all depends on how the custody was settled during the divorce. You should check that first, to be sure you didn't sign custody ove the children away. The norm in thailand is that upon divorce the parents have shared paretnal rights. if you or the mother petition the court to be awarded sole custody, they will deny that unless the other parent is deemed a danger to the child. often one of the parents will be the prime caretaker, with the oher parent getting a few days per week or month with the children.

In your case you mention that the MIl is taking care of the children. That she can do, with permisison of the mother. But if you have joined parental rights, only the mother can deny you handing over the children. The MIL has no powers and must hand the children over to you.

What the mother can't do is let the MIL take care of the children if you want to take care of them. The shared custody means that either the mother or the father take care of the children. If the mother isn't taking care of the children, you can ask to be the prime care taker of the childrren, with the mother having a few days with the children, provided she takes care of the children herself.

That is something you should discuss with a lawyer and I advise you to keep a diary of events and gather evidence, showing that you are a good father, paying bills for the children, etc and that the mother is not taking care of the children.

[scorecard]

It all depends on how the custody was settled during the divorce. You should check that first, to be sure you didn't sign custody ove the children away. The norm in thailand is that upon divorce the parents have shared paretnal rights. if you or the mother petition the court to be awarded sole custody, they will deny that unless the other parent is deemed a danger to the child. often one of the parents will be the prime caretaker, with the oher parent getting a few days per week or month with the children.

In your case you mention that the MIl is taking care of the children. That she can do, with permisison of the mother. But if you have joined parental rights, only the mother can deny you handing over the children. The MIL has no powers and must hand the children over to you.

What the mother can't do is let the MIL take care of the children if you want to take care of them. The shared custody means that either the mother or the father take care of the children. If the mother isn't taking care of the children, you can ask to be the prime care taker of the childrren, with the mother having a few days with the children, provided she takes care of the children herself.

That is something you should discuss with a lawyer and I advise you to keep a diary of events and gather evidence, showing that you are a good father, paying bills for the children, etc and that the mother is not taking care of the children.

And I suggest you listen carefully to Mario and quickly follow his advice to discuss your specific case with a lawyer.

Your situation needs to be handled through the correct processes set out by law, beware of listening to arm chair lawyers.

Good luck.

Edited September 2, 2011 by scorecard

[7by7]

One post advocating illegal activity has been deleted.

[Geekfreaklover]

Confirm the status of you divorce agreement. Both the amphur or court divorce document will detail your status with regard to custody. I assume you were there to sign the terms so you should know where you stand. As Mario says, the MIL has no more rights than yourself over custody. Where is the mother?

[Captain Haddock]

Goodluck!

[MikeyIdea]

Didn't see this thread

Mario2008 is a goldmine, read carefully what he writes

A juvenile court judge that I spoke to during a case in July accepted = confirmed that legitimized father (western in this case) can veto that child is taken out of Thailand (by the Thai mother), this works both ways.

NO, you can never force Thai courts to allow you to bring your young children out of Thailand. This apply up to 15 years something where the childs own wish matters so much that the child herself can make it happen

Mothers visitation rights are almost holy. Court will not order anything that breaks this rule unless mother is proven to be dangerous for the child - court will eventually remove custody of the mother if she doesn't even bother to show up in court though

Grand mother takes care of the children instead of the mother? - You can force that either the mother takes care of the child or you get the possession for sure in that case - but you have to be in Thailand.

Negotiation is everything, also in court. You can probably negotiate -> pay the mother to get to take the children out of the country if you say let them be here 2-3 months per year during the holidays, should be doable. Make sure that you have court decision on that

Good Luck and don't do anything stupid. Follow the law!