British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[carra]

I can't blame anyone guilty or not from trying to legally avoid punishment but what a cowardly punk. He allegedly runs around acting like a tough guy terrorizing those around him then commits a cowardly murder when put in his place and now says he is scared of Thai prisons which thousands and thousands of people a lot smaller and weaker then him endures every year. I really do feel for people who in a heat of rage throw away their life but it is extremely difficult to have any sympathy for this alleged murdering cowardly punk.

Oh you have already had a trial and found him guilty, well done you, no need for a legal process everyone, Nisa has already sorted it all out and decided he is guilty.

[Nisa]

I can't blame anyone guilty or not from trying to legally avoid punishment but what a cowardly punk. He allegedly runs around acting like a tough guy terrorizing those around him then commits a cowardly murder when put in his place and now says he is scared of Thai prisons which thousands and thousands of people a lot smaller and weaker then him endures every year. I really do feel for people who in a heat of rage throw away their life but it is extremely difficult to have any sympathy for this alleged murdering cowardly punk.

Oh you have already had a trial and found him guilty, well done you, no need for a legal process everyone, Nisa has already sorted it all out and decided he is guilty.

Even when using the word allegedly twice to avoid such strange responses, still some people can't comprehend that a forum is for people to express their opinions and not a court of law.

And yes without a doubt I believe HE IS GUILTY but never once did I hint at the fact he shouldn't have a trial and in fact have been clear to state the opposite by saying his trial should be in Thailand were the crime took place ... I guess I should say alleged crime because it certainly is possible he died of stab wounds in a legal way.

[SteeleJoe]

I can't blame anyone guilty or not from trying to legally avoid punishment but what a cowardly punk. He allegedly runs around acting like a tough guy terrorizing those around him then commits a cowardly murder when put in his place and now says he is scared of Thai prisons which thousands and thousands of people a lot smaller and weaker then him endures every year. I really do feel for people who in a heat of rage throw away their life but it is extremely difficult to have any sympathy for this alleged murdering cowardly punk.

Oh you have already had a trial and found him guilty, well done you, no need for a legal process everyone, Nisa has already sorted it all out and decided he is guilty.

Overreact much? Read again.

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[Nisa]

Until now UK never had send any of British citizens to face justice abroad

Don't think so

http://london.usembassy.gov/gb176.html

http://www.reuters.c...E80C15C20120113

Briton Extradited To US Over Arms Claims http://news.sky.com/...ver-arms-claims

Jailed Briton hits out at Foreign Office over extradition http://www.guardian....n?newsfeed=true

Edited October 25, 2012 by Nisa

[FarangTalk]

Arguing this is pointless. Thai Police don't have anywhere near the resources and technology that most all countries in the west do. Only somebody not in touch with reality and/or putting their own feelings of inadequacies onto others (Thais) would say otherwise.

The figures are clearly nonsense.

There are only 12,000 male Police officers during 2006? There are 40,000+ male officers in the Border Patrol division alone.

It's a shame you can't keep the discussion civil and have to resort to insults though.

[Nisa]

Arguing this is pointless. Thai Police don't have anywhere near the resources and technology that most all countries in the west do. Only somebody not in touch with reality and/or putting their own feelings of inadequacies onto others (Thais) would say otherwise.

The figures are clearly nonsense.

There are only 12,000 male Police officers during 2006? There are 40,000+ male officers in the Border Patrol division alone.

It's a shame you can't keep the discussion civil and have to resort to insults though.

Again, ridiculous argument to have. The bottom line is Thai Police don't have anywhere near the resources and technology that most all countries in the west do.and to go on about body counts that are unverifiable is pointless and nothing to do with the fact that Thai Police don't have anywhere near the resources and technology that most all countries in the west do. Remember, this was the entire point as you indicated your home country police were not incompetent for not catching criminals because they lacked resources but Thailand didn't. You also stated something that you have still yet to back up and that was the Thai Police made a guarantee on record that he would be caught within a week. Bottom line is he was caught in less than 2-weeks for a murder not committed in front of police after he fled through multiple countries. Yet, for some strange reason you want to try to say the Thai police were incompetent but had the same thing happened in your county it would not be incompetence but due to lack of resources. Again, just a pointless debate to have but if it makes you happy to do it then go ahead and I'll not debate with you further on the subject..

Edit: I'd also love to see you back up your claim of their being 40k+ border agents ... in other words, law enforcement agents employed by the border patrol.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Nisa

[FarangTalk]

Edit: I'd also love to see you back up your claim of their being 40k+ border agents ... in other words, law enforcement agents employed by the border patrol.

Proof here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Police

That does not of course include Immigration Police or any other divisions of the Royal Thai Police force.

Interestingly, the border patrol units were tasked with protecting Pol Pot when he lived in Thailand in the 80's when they were busy fighting alongside the Khmer Rouge cadres against Vietnamese troops in the border regions.

[FarangTalk]

You also stated something that you have still yet to back up and that was the Thai Police made a guarantee on record that he would be caught within a week.

Read back through the thread the comment from the RTP has been posted several times.

I am still waiting for proof that he did not use a border checkpoint as you continue to allege. This now at the second time of asking.

[SteeleJoe]

Edit: I'd also love to see you back up your claim of their being 40k+ border agents ... in other words, law enforcement agents employed by the border patrol.

Proof here: http://en.wikipedia....yal_Thai_Police

That does not of course include Immigration Police or any other divisions of the Royal Thai Police force.

Interestingly, the border patrol units were tasked with protecting Pol Pot when he lived in Thailand in the 80's when they were busy fighting alongside the Khmer Rouge cadres against Vietnamese troops in the border regions.

The Border Patrol -- which is in fact a paramilitary organization much more than a poolice agency -- has a very interesting history that precedes the 80s by a couple decades. (But one wouldn't be wise to go into it much on this forum.)

[metisdead]

You also stated something that you have still yet to back up and that was the Thai Police made a guarantee on record that he would be caught within a week.

Read back through the thread the comment from the RTP has been posted several times.

I am still waiting for proof that he did not use a border checkpoint as you continue to allege. This now at the second time of asking.

You may find these topics enlightening:

http://www.thaivisa....t-murder-count/

http://www.thaivisa....-at-uk-airport/

[Nisa]

Edit: I'd also love to see you back up your claim of their being 40k+ border agents ... in other words, law enforcement agents employed by the border patrol.

Proof here: http://en.wikipedia....yal_Thai_Police

That does not of course include Immigration Police or any other divisions of the Royal Thai Police force.

Interestingly, the border patrol units were tasked with protecting Pol Pot when he lived in Thailand in the 80's when they were busy fighting alongside the Khmer Rouge cadres against Vietnamese troops in the border regions.

The Border Patrol -- which is in fact a paramilitary organization much more than a poolice agency -- has a very interesting history that precedes the 80s by a couple decades. (But one wouldn't be wise to go into it much on this forum.)

The Border Patrol which you are is part of the army and not part of the Thai Police which Border Agents (Thai Police) fall.

[Nisa]

Edit: I'd also love to see you back up your claim of their being 40k+ border agents ... in other words, law enforcement agents employed by the border patrol.

Proof here: http://en.wikipedia....yal_Thai_Police

That does not of course include Immigration Police or any other divisions of the Royal Thai Police force.

Interestingly, the border patrol units were tasked with protecting Pol Pot when he lived in Thailand in the 80's when they were busy fighting alongside the Khmer Rouge cadres against Vietnamese troops in the border regions.

So, basically you are talking about a paramilitary group under the army and not actually Immigration Border Police that are part of the Thai Police as a way to further your argument that the Thai Police were incompotent because this guy was not arrested faster.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Nisa

[SteeleJoe]

Edit: I'd also love to see you back up your claim of their being 40k+ border agents ... in other words, law enforcement agents employed by the border patrol.

Proof here: http://en.wikipedia....yal_Thai_Police

That does not of course include Immigration Police or any other divisions of the Royal Thai Police force.

Interestingly, the border patrol units were tasked with protecting Pol Pot when he lived in Thailand in the 80's when they were busy fighting alongside the Khmer Rouge cadres against Vietnamese troops in the border regions.

The Border Patrol -- which is in fact a paramilitary organization much more than a poolice agency -- has a very interesting history that precedes the 80s by a couple decades. (But one wouldn't be wise to go into it much on this forum.)

The Border Patrol which you are is part of the army and not part of the Thai Police which Border Agents (Thai Police) fall.

I'm speaking of the Border Patrol Police (BPP)

http://www.nationreligionking.com/police/borderpatrol/

It's true that they are/were only nominally under the RTP but they began as a police agency and that is what I am referring to. As far as I know, the Army has operatioal command these days but they are not "part of the army".

Edited October 25, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[Nisa]

Proof here: http://en.wikipedia....yal_Thai_Police

That does not of course include Immigration Police or any other divisions of the Royal Thai Police force.

Interestingly, the border patrol units were tasked with protecting Pol Pot when he lived in Thailand in the 80's when they were busy fighting alongside the Khmer Rouge cadres against Vietnamese troops in the border regions.

The Border Patrol -- which is in fact a paramilitary organization much more than a poolice agency -- has a very interesting history that precedes the 80s by a couple decades. (But one wouldn't be wise to go into it much on this forum.)

The Border Patrol which you are is part of the army and not part of the Thai Police which Border Agents (Thai Police) fall.

I'm speaking of the Border Patrol Police (BPP)

http://www.nationrel...e/borderpatrol/

It's true that they are/were only nominally under the RTP but they began as a police agency and that is what I am referring to. As far as I know, the Army has operatioal command these days but they are not "part of the army".

What they clearly are not is part of the Police .... again this all goes to your comments about Thai Police being incompetent because this guy wasn't arrested sooner. So, your point is moot unless you are just wishing to go off topic and move the debate.

[SteeleJoe]

What they clearly are not is part of the Police .... again this all goes to your comments about Thai Police being incompetent because this guy wasn't arrested sooner. So, your point is moot unless you are just wishing to go off topic and move the debate.

They clearly are not? Despite their name and the fact that they were started by the RTP and are technically part of them?

And what comments did I make about "Thai Police being incompetent because this guy wasn't arrested sooner"?

My point is moot? My point was that the BPP has an interesting history and is a paramilitary organization and the point was made in response to comment about them. Not sure why you get to decide it is moot, but whatever. I feel free to comment about things that come up in a thread and will continue to do so. Especially as I'm not in a debate.

[Nisa]

You also stated something that you have still yet to back up and that was the Thai Police made a guarantee on record that he would be caught within a week.

Read back through the thread the comment from the RTP has been posted several times.

I am still waiting for proof that he did not use a border checkpoint as you continue to allege. This now at the second time of asking.

I didn't allege anything and only made one reference to such a thing so you are stating something clearly false by saying I continue to allege something. What I said and I quote (with added bold) ...

"

I don't recall the circumstances but if my memory serves right

he fled illegally out of the country (not using a check-point) and then made it Singapore where he took a flight out and then was picked-up at the airport back in the UK.."

If my memory is wrong as it very well appears to be, then why not correct me and share the correct information with the board instead of playing some game and using untruths to somehow further some other goal you have? Since you seem less interested in getting things correct and sharing facts then let me do it for you as I have since looked up the circumstances since it has become a concern.. Unless there has been updated reports, this is what I see looking back at news accounts ...

Aldhouse is said to have departed Thailand from a small border crossing in Khlong Yai, Trat province, on August 17. Thai Immigration at that tiny checkpoint along the border with Cambodia may not have had access to online databases.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

What they clearly are not is part of the Police .... again this all goes to your comments about Thai Police being incompetent because this guy wasn't arrested sooner. So, your point is moot unless you are just wishing to go off topic and move the debate.

They clearly are not? Despite their name and the fact that they were started by the RTP and are technically part of them?

And what comments did I make about "Thai Police being incompetent because this guy wasn't arrested sooner"?

My point is moot? My point was that the BPP has an interesting history and is a paramilitary organization and the point was made in response to comment about them. Not sure why you get to decide it is moot, but whatever. I feel free to comment about things that come up in a thread and will continue to do so. Especially as I'm not in a debate.

My apologies, I thought I was responding to another poster and hadn't realized you jumped into the conversation. I thought I was talking about Thai Police and how it relates to this topic and not a paramilitary organization within Thailand. Although their history may be an interesting subject, they currently are not part of the Royal Thai Police and that was the point I was making to the other poster.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Nisa

[FarangTalk]

The Border Patrol which you are is part of the army and not part of the Thai Police which Border Agents (Thai Police) fall.

Incorrect.

"Although technically part of the Royal Thai Police, the BPP has always enjoyed a great deal of autonomy within the national headquarters as well as in its multifaceted field operations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Patrol_Police

[SteeleJoe]

What they clearly are not is part of the Police .... again this all goes to your comments about Thai Police being incompetent because this guy wasn't arrested sooner. So, your point is moot unless you are just wishing to go off topic and move the debate.

They clearly are not? Despite their name and the fact that they were started by the RTP and are technically part of them?

And what comments did I make about "Thai Police being incompetent because this guy wasn't arrested sooner"?

My point is moot? My point was that the BPP has an interesting history and is a paramilitary organization and the point was made in response to comment about them. Not sure why you get to decide it is moot, but whatever. I feel free to comment about things that come up in a thread and will continue to do so. Especially as I'm not in a debate.

My apologies, I thought I was responding to another poster and hadn't realized you jumped into the conversation. I thought I was talking about Thai Police and how it relates to this topic and not a paramilitary organization within Thailand. Although there history may be an interesting subject, they currently are not part of the Royal Thai Police and that was the point I was making to the other poster.

Apology accepted. I believe I might have done the same thing before.

You dont want to get sidetracked so I won't pursue the "what they clearly are not is part of the Police" stuff (or the fact that being "paramilitary" doesn't mean they are part of the military.)

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[FarangTalk]

Aldhouse is said to have departed Thailand from a small border crossing in Khlong Yai, Trat province, on August 17. Thai Immigration at that tiny checkpoint along the border with Cambodia may not have had access to online databases.

So, we now know he used a checkpoint.

Not difficult to fax or alert all border checkpoints countrywide that a murder suspect on the run may try and pass through them.

My suspicion that it was Thai Police incompetence letting him escape the country seems to be 100% correct.

[Nisa]

The Border Patrol which you are is part of the army and not part of the Thai Police which Border Agents (Thai Police) fall.

Incorrect.

"Although technically part of the Royal Thai Police, the BPP has always enjoyed a great deal of autonomy within the national headquarters as well as in its multifaceted field operations."

http://en.wikipedia....r_Patrol_Police

Dude, give it up. Now you are providing a link to the Thai Border Patrol Police but the 40k figure you quote is from another link that clearly is speaking about a paramilitary organization which the BPP is not.

[SteeleJoe]

The Border Patrol which you are is part of the army and not part of the Thai Police which Border Agents (Thai Police) fall.

Incorrect.

"Although technically part of the Royal Thai Police, the BPP has always enjoyed a great deal of autonomy within the national headquarters as well as in its multifaceted field operations."

http://en.wikipedia....r_Patrol_Police

Dude, give it up. Now you are providing a link to the Thai Border Patrol Police but the 40k figure you quote is from another link that clearly is speaking about a paramilitary organization which the BPP is not.

Say what? Now you're claiming the BPP is not a paramilitary organization when minutes ago you agreed that it was?

Or maybe I'm the one confused now.

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[Nisa]

Aldhouse is said to have departed Thailand from a small border crossing in Khlong Yai, Trat province, on August 17. Thai Immigration at that tiny checkpoint along the border with Cambodia may not have had access to online databases.

So, we now know he used a checkpoint.

Not difficult to fax or alert all border checkpoints countrywide that a murder suspect on the run may try and pass through them.

My suspicion that it was Thai Police incompetence letting him escape the country seems to be 100% correct.

Maybe the fax was under a pile of all the other wanted criminals in Thailand and they hadn't hung it up yet or maybe within the 3-days he committed the murder and crossed the border there wasn't enough time and resources available to investigate the murder, identify the suspect, get his passport details and then alert every border agent in the country that quickly, maybe the suspect was able to pull some scam and didn't just cross his fingers hoping he could cross there. None of us know but it certainly could be the incompetence or even criminal act of a single Thai Police officer or even complete incompetence of the Thai Police & Border Agents but certainly no proof either way.

I know nothing is going to change your mind in your strong belief it was Thai Police incompetence that it took less than 2-weeks for him to be arrested but at least this time you have made a rational argument and found an instance where police may have made a mistake .... though I don't think the facts back up your claims of incompetence as this was simply a murders happen at a rate in this country and many others that doesn't warrant the sealing off or borders of cities or countries and even in places like the US it can take days for things to get inputted into the computer for even local police to know about a wanted person and much longer for it to get into a database for border agents to be aware. In fact, there is a reason why passports are confiscated from people accused of crimes, who aren't allowed to leave the country, in just about any country and why they simply don't depend on the belief they can press some button and have all border crossing know this person is not allowed to leave.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Nisa

[SteeleJoe]

No, I may be confused about what you said -- and I'm not certain that isn't due to the way you say it --but I'm not confused about any organizations.

I know a bit about the Thai military and back in the day had some associations with them. I know very well what Tahan Phran (ทหารพราน) are -- Thais have been known to understand that my former unit was the US equivalent when in fact they share only a name -- and I never mentioned them in this thread, only the BPP (which can be seen by my posts and the link I included in one of them -- can't see how you'd get the idea that I was talking about Tahan Phran or had confused the two).

I'm not bothered whether you care or not but you don't get to decide what the point is all the time. Again, someone brought up the BPP and I commented o them. You proceeded to make some erroneous comments about them and I replied to that. So that was my point.

[SteeleJoe]

deleted

Nice one. By deleting the post where you suddenly introduced a Thai military unit and tried to suggest that I had confused it with the BPP (presumably after you noticed that I failed to qoute you in my reply so you could do that and leave no trace), you cover that weak dodge and make my reply senseless.

Not the first time you've done that, I recall.

Whatever. Carry on with your defense of the RTP. You have succeeded in getting me to butt out.

[SteeleJoe]

You (or I) are confusing two different groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thahan_Phran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Patrol_Police

But to be honest, I really don't care as the point again was responding to if the police were incompetent because this guy was not arrested in less time.

Oh, wait -- look what I found.

Anyway, the I have an interest in and a certain amount of knowledge of modern Thai history and irrespective of my familiarity with the RTA, I would be interested in the BPP due to the way they came about and the role they played in an era that particularly interests me. So that's why I went off on that tangent...

Done.

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[gk10002000]

They had to give up the death penality to make it happen, what will be the basis for his appeal be, I donot like Thailand

This is probably bad. Years in a Thai prison are virtually a death penalty. How many Thais have been extradited to Britain?

[Nisa]

deleted

Nice one. By deleting the post where you suddenly introduced a Thai military unit and tried to suggest that I had confused it with the BPP (presumably after you noticed that I failed to qoute you in my reply so you could do that and leave no trace), you cover that weak dodge and make my reply senseless.

Not the first time you've done that, I recall.

Whatever. Carry on with your defense of the RTP. You have succeeded in getting me to butt out.

Actually I decided to try to drop a conversation that was clearly going way off topic and one I have no interest and completely irrelevant (moot) to the discussion I was having with somebody else and the OP. But I kind of got sucked into by mistakenly responding to you instead of somebody else I was conversing and as I have already apologized to you for this misunderstanding & confusion and explained this to you, I realized I was being foolish to continue the discussion with you since it is neither relevant to the OP or something I have interest in discussing or knowing about at this time. So, whatever you believe I am wrong about then you are welcome to believe this and I very well could be as I could care less about discussing the paramilitary organizations in Thailand at this juncture and regret allowing myself to get distracted by this subject.

[SteeleJoe]

They had to give up the death penality to make it happen, what will be the basis for his appeal be, I donot like Thailand

Years in a Thai prison are virtually a death penalty.

Not quite.

But I'm curious -- on what do you base this rather extraordinary statement?

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[SteeleJoe]

deleted

Nice one. By deleting the post where you suddenly introduced a Thai military unit and tried to suggest that I had confused it with the BPP (presumably after you noticed that I failed to qoute you in my reply so you could do that and leave no trace), you cover that weak dodge and make my reply senseless.

Not the first time you've done that, I recall.

Whatever. Carry on with your defense of the RTP. You have succeeded in getting me to butt out.

Actually I decided to try to drop a conversation that was clearly going way off topic and one I have no interest and completely irrelevant (moot) to the discussion I was having with somebody else and the OP. But I kind of got sucked into by mistakenly responding to you instead of somebody else I was conversing and as I have already apologized to you for this misunderstanding & confusion and explained this to you, I realized I was being foolish to continue the discussion with you since it is neither relevant to the OP or something I have interest in discussing or knowing about at this time. So, whatever you believe I am wrong about then you are welcome to believe this and I very well could be as I could care less about discussing the paramilitary organizations in Thailand at this juncture and regret allowing myself to get distracted by this subject.

Dropping is one thing. Deleting without comment a post that has already been replied to -- and one which not incidentally is easily seen as a rather transparent dodge -- is quite another.

But by all means, don't continue the discussion with me. It's dropped.

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