British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[FritsSikkink]

You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about ... gross incompetence?!?!?

Letting a murder suspect in such a high profile case escape the island of Phuket and then flee the country altogether is an act of gross incompetence by the Thai Police.

In your country nobody gets away then or are the police incompetent too by your opinion?

[cbrer]

Remember the police in Phuket promising that they'll have him back in Phuket in a week?

[FarangTalk]

You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about ... gross incompetence?!?!?

Letting a murder suspect in such a high profile case escape the island of Phuket and then flee the country altogether is an act of gross incompetence by the Thai Police.

In your country nobody gets away then or are the police incompetent too by your opinion?

There are incidents of incompetence by the Police in my country.

Next stupid question.

[lizardtongue]

Does the UK have the death penalty? If so, than all 3 countries have the death penalty. This cowardly murder should warrant death, regardless where it occurred. Next time you got your arrogant butt kick by a combat hardened US Marine, and as embarrassing as it may be, just go home.

The UK does not have the death penalty, and will not extradite its citizens to a country that does, unless the prosecution in that country promises not to seek the death penalty. That is why the Thai prosecutors are not seeking it.

I was told the UK DOES have the death penalty.

One is for naval treason and another I forget.

I think you will find that it was for treason and was abolished in 1998

[MAJIC]

Good news, one extra place in the pokey for the English rioters.

Nb: That's official HM Gov policy, there were no riots in Scotland/Wales/Isle of Man et al.

You don't half talk a load of Bigoted unresearched Crap!

[Nisa]

You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about ... gross incompetence?!?!?

Letting a murder suspect in such a high profile case escape the island of Phuket and then flee the country altogether is an act of gross incompetence by the Thai Police.

In your country nobody gets away then or are the police incompetent too by your opinion?

There are incidents of incompetence by the Police in my country.

Next stupid question.

Clearly your country has a HUGE ongoing incompetence problem because there are many people wanted for crimes, many living at their home address, which police have not caught.

[cbrer]

TBF I doubt the level of 'incompetence' and corruption in Western nation's police forces are at the stage of 100's (?) of potential police recruits paying 3 years of their potential salary just to get in on the scam on board. Where unaccountable torture, murder, extortion and bribery are the name of the game.

A police force, I use the term loosely, such as the one in Thailand cannot be seen as such beholders of justice, and has no place in dealing with those who are after justice.

People may want revenge, in that case by all means push for the extradition out of your own anger, of a man who may not have committed the crime. Justice, it isn't to be found in Thailand I'm afraid.

[FarangTalk]

Clearly your country has a HUGE ongoing incompetence problem because there are many people wanted for crimes, many living at their home address, which police have not caught.

That problem is not down to incompetence but lack of manpower among other factors. The Thai Police don't have that excuse, given that they are one of the largest per capita forces in the World.

[FritsSikkink]

Clearly your country has a HUGE ongoing incompetence problem because there are many people wanted for crimes, many living at their home address, which police have not caught.

That problem is not down to incompetence but lack of manpower among other factors. The Thai Police don't have that excuse, given that they are one of the largest per capita forces in the World.

No they have not, they are only 10% above average:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_size_of_police_forces

[Nisa]

Clearly your country has a HUGE ongoing incompetence problem because there are many people wanted for crimes, many living at their home address, which police have not caught.

That problem is not down to incompetence but lack of manpower among other factors. The Thai Police don't have that excuse, given that they are one of the largest per capita forces in the World.

No they have not, they are only 10% above average:

http://en.wikipedia....f_police_forces

I didn't look at the figure (source and definitions) but it may be a bit off too depending on what they are counting as police. Most all agencies fall under the Thai Police but in a country like the US they have city, county, state/highway police, airport police, border agents, DEA, FBI, School Police, Fish and Game police and on and on but in Thailand most all this falls under one agency.

Bottom line is somebody murdering somebody and then fleeing is certainly not an indication of incompetence and just plain silly to indicate it is unless there was incompetence involved such as failing in a timely manner to get the person's wanted information out there and having the police letting the suspect go who they had contact with.

I don't recall the circumstances but if my memory serves right he fled illegally out of the country (not using a check-point) and then made it Singapore where he took a flight out and then was picked-up at the airport back in the UK.... where they where already aware of his crime here but were able to hold him on other local charges. Getting out of a city after committing a murder is EXTREMELY easy but some might be ignorant enough to think they actually set up road blocks, surround the island with navy ships and do searches of all vehicle and vessels and do DNA swabs each time a murder is committed.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Nisa

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed as well as a reply.

[FarangTalk]

I didn't look at the figure (source and definitions) but it may be a bit off too depending on what they are counting as police. Most all agencies fall under the Thai Police but in a country like the US they have city, county, state/highway police, airport police, border agents, DEA, FBI, School Police, Fish and Game police and on and on but in Thailand most all this falls under one agency.

Bottom line is somebody murdering somebody and then fleeing is certainly not an indication of incompetence and just plain silly to indicate it is unless there was incompetence involved such as failing in a timely manner to get the person's wanted information out there and having the police letting the suspect go who they had contact with.

Thai police were on record saying he would be captured within a week. If he managed to get off an island like Phuket then out of the country entirely (through Cambodia IIRC) then that certainly smacks of incompetence to me.

He's a low-life boxer on the run on his own <deleted>, not some master criminal with a network of associates.

Where is the evidence that he escaped without using a border checkpoint?

Thanks in advance.

[FarangTalk]

Clearly your country has a HUGE ongoing incompetence problem because there are many people wanted for crimes, many living at their home address, which police have not caught.

That problem is not down to incompetence but lack of manpower among other factors. The Thai Police don't have that excuse, given that they are one of the largest per capita forces in the World.

No they have not, they are only 10% above average:

http://en.wikipedia....f_police_forces

A quick glance at the breakdown of those figures in pdf form shows them to be complete nonsense.

1.1 Total police personnel 214,411 213,507 340.32 336.53

1.2 Female police personnel 201,469 317.55

1.3 Male police personnel 12,038

[Nisa]

I didn't look at the figure (source and definitions) but it may be a bit off too depending on what they are counting as police. Most all agencies fall under the Thai Police but in a country like the US they have city, county, state/highway police, airport police, border agents, DEA, FBI, School Police, Fish and Game police and on and on but in Thailand most all this falls under one agency.

Bottom line is somebody murdering somebody and then fleeing is certainly not an indication of incompetence and just plain silly to indicate it is unless there was incompetence involved such as failing in a timely manner to get the person's wanted information out there and having the police letting the suspect go who they had contact with.

Thai police were on record saying he would be captured within a week. If he managed to get off an island like Phuket then out of the country entirely (through Cambodia IIRC) then that certainly smacks of incompetence to me.

Please stop your nonsense or show the quote where police stated for the record he would be captured within a week. This cowardly murder occurred on the 14th and CNN ran a story with the below quote on the 17th which indicates police thought he may already be out of the country (in fact I believe he was on the 17th).

"We are doing everything we can to stop this guy from leaving the country, but there are chances that he might have slipped through neighbour countries via other small islands,"

Phuket police Lt. Col. Anukul Nook

http://articles.cnn....awl?_s=PM:WORLD

The end result being he was captured in under two weeks. Absolutely ridiculous to suggest incompetence simply because a murderer wasn't captured in less time or wasn't captured in the city or jurisdiction where the crime occurred. Even if a cop said (which I doubt) that he would be captured in a week, this is not incompetence as police say all sorts of crap to put pressure on criminals and those they are hunting.

To suggest somebody not being captured by police is beyond the realm of being rational. Police and technology is not perfect but that is certainly a far cry from incompetence.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Nisa

[Paangjang]

I used to follow this topic for a while but that was a long time ago. Im too lazy to read all of it now. Can anybody tell me what the current status is of the so called extradition or appeal is please? Are they sending this scumbag back?

[Nisa]

I used to follow this topic for a while but that was a long time ago. Im too lazy to read all of it now. Can anybody tell me what the current status is of the so called extradition or appeal is please? Are they sending this scumbag back?

He has lost a series of request to avoid being sent back and the final decision from the High Court is hopefully coming soon (weeks). Not sure he will have any appeals left after that, at least regarding the UK courts but we'll see as I am fairly confident he is not going to win this one unless he comes up with different stuff than he already has.

[Paangjang]

I used to follow this topic for a while but that was a long time ago. Im too lazy to read all of it now. Can anybody tell me what the current status is of the so called extradition or appeal is please? Are they sending this scumbag back?

He has lost a series of request to avoid being sent back and the final decision from the High Court is hopefully coming soon (weeks). Not sure he will have any appeals left after that, at least regarding the UK courts but we'll see as I am fairly confident he is not going to win this one unless he comes up with different stuff than he already has.

Thanks for the info. I hope he gets the punishment he deserves.

[moonray]

Until now UK never had send any of British citizens to face justice abroad,not to Thailand at least.

You say,that kickboxer Lee will create precedence and judicial/diplomatic history?

Dont be naive - he can always play that old and proven game:play crazy.

[Boater]

Until now UK never had send any of British citizens to face justice abroad,not to Thailand at least.

You say,that kickboxer Lee will create precedence and judicial/diplomatic history?

Dont be naive - he can always play that old and proven game:play crazy.

I think you will find we have , but only to USA and other European countries

[moonray]

I know about one very obvious case going on:to France,bloody murder in Paris,I think the perpetrator is still in UK,in custody - until some deadline expires,then he goes free.

[cbrer]

Can anybody tell me what the current status is of the so called extradition or appeal is please?

The High Court was quite rightly abhorred by the decision to grant extradition on what was a minor technicality (a motion was filed to the wrong person, or received one day late or something like, I forget now and aren't looking back). The High Court judge had some choice words for the Home Secretary who was seriously erring in her embarrassing decision.

Quite rightly the High Court have accepted a postponement of the hearings in order for more time for the case to be prepared. (as of June 2012).

We can only imagine what they're finding. Even just looking at the news section on Thai Visa would let anyone see that this system isn't fit to try a cat, never mind a human being.

Fortunately the courts will see the same.

Edited October 24, 2012 by cbrer

[Nisa]

Until now UK never had send any of British citizens to face justice abroad,not to Thailand at least.

You say,that kickboxer Lee will create precedence and judicial/diplomatic history?

Dont be naive - he can always play that old and proven game:play crazy.

Do you have a list of any case where they denied extradition to Thailand? If not then then I guess you could also say it would make judicial/diplomatic history if they refused to extradite him.

What you are not understanding is if they don't extradite him on the grounds he is asking (inhumane treatment in Thai prison) then they could never extradite anyone to Thailand for any crime unless Thai Prisons changed dramatically and that ain't happening anytime in the near future. So, in effect it would void the treaty between the UK and Thailand regarding extradition and you can be assured the UK would only hear laughter next time they wanted somebody from Thailand back in the UK .... and guess what, the US would be laughing right along with Thailand.

Thankfully courts are not supposed to be this political. So, if they go by the law only then it seems fairly certain they are going to agree with the other courts decisions as there is nothing to indicated they didn't rule properly or that there was some bias or legal mistakes made in their decisions.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Nisa

[MAJIC]

Link to Extradition Treaty between Thailand and the UK Historically.

http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/Treaty-Thailand-and-Great-Britain.html

[Nisa]

Can anybody tell me what the current status is of the so called extradition or appeal is please?

The High Court was quite rightly abhorred by the decision to grant extradition on what was a minor technicality (a motion was filed to the wrong person, or received one day late or something like, I forget now and aren't looking back). The High Court judge had some choice words for the Home Secretary who was seriously erring in her embarrassing decision.

Quite rightly the High Court have accepted a postponement of the hearings in order for more time for the case to be prepared. (as of June 2012).

We can only imagine what they're finding. Even just looking at the news section on Thai Visa would let anyone see that this system isn't fit to try a cat, never mind a human being.

Fortunately the courts will see the same.

Somehow to suggest in any way shape or form the court should be reading ThaiVisa is strange but more to the point, what technicality are you talking about. It is my understanding he has lost at least two hearings regarding his extradition and the only thing regarding a technicality (as you call it) had to do with their being a motion to not let him bring the case to the high court because he allegedly didn't file his motion to appeal in a timely manner. This is just regular motions that happen all the time and am sure nobody ever believed it wouldn't make it to the high court but lawyers on both sides are duty bound to file these kinds of motions..

[Nisa]

Link to Extradition Treaty between Thailand and the UK Historically.

http://www.thailawfo...at-Britain.html

Thanks for sharing but are you aware of any case where they denied extradition to Thailand? I can't find anything in some quick searches but wondering if it has ever happened.

[Nisa]

I can't blame anyone guilty or not from trying to legally avoid punishment but what a cowardly punk. He allegedly runs around acting like a tough guy terrorizing those around him then commits a cowardly murder when put in his place and now says he is scared of Thai prisons which thousands and thousands of people a lot smaller and weaker then him endures every year. I really do feel for people who in a heat of rage throw away their life but it is extremely difficult to have any sympathy for this alleged murdering cowardly punk.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Nisa

[MAJIC]

Link to Extradition Treaty between Thailand and the UK Historically.

http://www.thailawfo...at-Britain.html

Thanks for sharing but are you aware of any case where they denied extradition to Thailand? I can't find anything in some quick searches but wondering if it has ever happened.

Can't say i've ever heard of any! but unless requests for extradition are honoured,there doesn't seem much point in having the agreement.

That of course should exclude the death penalty.

[FritsSikkink]

Clearly your country has a HUGE ongoing incompetence problem because there are many people wanted for crimes, many living at their home address, which police have not caught.

That problem is not down to incompetence but lack of manpower among other factors. The Thai Police don't have that excuse, given that they are one of the largest per capita forces in the World.

No they have not, they are only 10% above average:

http://en.wikipedia....f_police_forces

A quick glance at the breakdown of those figures in pdf form shows them to be complete nonsense.

1.1 Total police personnel 214,411 213,507 340.32 336.53

1.2 Female police personnel 201,469 317.55

1.3 Male police personnel 12,038

This proves you can't read properly.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/Thailand.pdf

There is nothing wrong with the data.

An other thing is the police are allocated by the number of permenant inhabitants of a city.

Phuket has a lot of tourists. That is why the phuket police are understaffed all the time.

[FritsSikkink]

Until now UK never had send any of British citizens to face justice abroad

Don't think so

http://london.usembassy.gov/gb176.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/us-filesharing-extradition-idUSTRE80C15C20120113

[Nisa]

That problem is not down to incompetence but lack of manpower among other factors. The Thai Police don't have that excuse, given that they are one of the largest per capita forces in the World.

No they have not, they are only 10% above average:

http://en.wikipedia....f_police_forces

A quick glance at the breakdown of those figures in pdf form shows them to be complete nonsense.

1.1 Total police personnel 214,411 213,507 340.32 336.53

1.2 Female police personnel 201,469 317.55

1.3 Male police personnel 12,038

This proves you can't read properly.

http://www.unodc.org...is/Thailand.pdf

There is nothing wrong with the data.

An other thing is the police are allocated by the number of permenant inhabitants of a city.

Phuket has a lot of tourists. That is why the phuket police are understaffed all the time.

Arguing this is pointless. Thai Police don't have anywhere near the resources and technology that most all countries in the west do. Only somebody not in touch with reality and/or putting their own feelings of inadequacies onto others (Thais) would say otherwise.