British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[metisdead]

Off topic posts removed.

[thaiphoon]

1 post quoting Phuketwan has been removed per forum rules:

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[PingManDan]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

[Buchholz]

Aldhouse appeal hearing today

PHUKET: British kickboxer Lee “Pitbull” Aldhouse will appear today (May 22) in the British High Court, appealing against his extradition to Thailand to face trial for the murder of American Deshawn Longfellow in Phuket in 2010.

The court is expected to make a “reserved” judgement rather than an immediate one, and it is likely to be several weeks before the decision is published. Aldhouse claims extradition to Thailand would be a violation of his human rights due to the inhumane conditions in Thai prisons.

If his appeal is unsuccessful, Aldhouse will be the first British citizen ever extradited to face trial in Thailand.

Continues:

http://www.thephuketnews.com/aldhouse-appeal-hearing-today-30819.php

The Phuket News - May 22, 2012

[elliss]

i am no lawyer, but he wont be leaving the UK,

his lawyer will use the Euro Human Rights Crap

- The right to a family life

Its what all the immigrants use to stop being deported to there homelands, and his lawyer will use this plus other clauses for lee not to be sent to thailand

i am no lawyer, but he wont be leaving the UK,

his lawyer will use the Euro Human Rights Crap

- The right to a family life

Its what all the immigrants use to stop being deported to there homelands, and his lawyer will use this plus other clauses for lee not to be sent to thailand

yep ,

he aint going to LOS, to face a trial .

human rights ,

forget about his human wrongs.

[Kilgore Trout]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

[KKvampire]

Shameful decision .he has no chance of a fair trial just as there should be no extradition treaty between the uk and usa and its kangaroo courts with laws and judges who are particularly favored at an electoral time. And then theres the Partriot Act.Stalin would have been proud of his enemy

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited May 23, 2012 by KKvampire

[Ferangled]

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State

applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in

the territory of the said State..."

The above quote is from Section 11 of:

TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE

EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS.

Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911.

(Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.)

It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal.

There are literally dozens of witnesses. CCTV footage of him in the initial fight, CCTV footage of him robbing the knives from the 7-11 and CCTV footage of him in the hotel where he stabbed the Marine. I am pretty sure even the most liberal of courts would call this enough evidence to bring the man to trial. Why would you make a comment about the Thais falsifying documents? It is all but a gurantee that this extradition is being driven by the US not the Thai government. I am not sure if you remember this initial reporting of this case, but it was hardly a quiet crime. This guy went on a drunken drug addled rampage through the streets wielding knives covered in blood, the murder was only the most heinous of his crimes that evening.

Why is hating Thailand such a passion of people who post on this board? If you are that unhappy in Thailand why do you stay?

I think some people need to calm down and gain some sort of sense of perspective here; where in the post you are replying to is there a single indication that the poster "hates Thailand with a passion" or is in anyway "unhappy in Thailand"?

You seem to take any suggestion that this extradition is likely not to be as straight forward as reported as some sort of endorsement of the crime; I don't believe anyone supports what has happened and doesn't want to see justice served on those responsible. The point in question is how this will play out and whether an extradition to Thailand would actually result in the victims killer to being brought to justice.

It's one of the few posts that hasn't been an overly emotional rant about how tough US marines are or how terrible this Lee bloke is... as someone else pointed out, however guilty this guy appears to be he is innocent until proven guilty. On the face of it, it seems pretty obvious that he is guilty and there's certainly enough evidence to bring the case as he's being detained at Her Majesty's pleasure currently but many a case that's fairly clear cut gets thrown out of court due to poor policing and tainted evidence.

Evidence as reported by media and evidence that will stand up in a court of law are two very different things, and like it or not, the Thai police do not have a great track record when it comes to criminal investigation. Out of every 100 crimes that get reported by the media here, exactly how many are followed up with arrests and convictions?

It's a very sad story and unfortunately whatever happens to the responsible party, the damage has already been done. I truly hope there is some sort of justice served for the sake of the victims family and friends.

[softgeorge]

Aldhouse appeal hearing today

PHUKET: British kickboxer Lee “Pitbull” Aldhouse will appear today (May 22) in the British High Court, appealing against his extradition to Thailand to face trial for the murder of American Deshawn Longfellow in Phuket in 2010.

The court is expected to make a “reserved” judgement rather than an immediate one, and it is likely to be several weeks before the decision is published. Aldhouse claims extradition to Thailand would be a violation of his human rights due to the inhumane conditions in Thai prisons.

If his appeal is unsuccessful, Aldhouse will be the first British citizen ever extradited to face trial in Thailand.

Continues:

http://www.thephuket...today-30819.php

The Phuket News - May 22, 2012

Inhumane conditions, well he didn't treat his victim very humanely. He deserves to be extradited and serve his time in a Thai prison.

[bangkokrick]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

Some draconian states in the US still have the death penalty, so maybe not in this case.

[SiamRose]

No, he didn't treat his victim humanely. But would like to think any civilized legal system would be more humane than a violent killer who calls himself "pitbull".

[bangkokrick]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

I think that you need to do some research before making outlandish statements. This article proves you wrong and it's also an interesting read.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-q-and-a-is-the-us-uk-extradition-treaty-unfair/9912

[animatic]

It looks like there is more than enough probable cause for an extradition.

The only sticking point being execution.

Take that off the table and it really becomes paper pushing past his lawyers.

I doubt he can afford OJ. / Johnny Cochran level lawyers on his best day.

We'll see in a few weeks I guess.

[Ferangled]

"If his appeal is unsuccessful, Aldhouse will be the first British citizen ever extradited to face trial in Thailand"

I think this is the point many are missing here, past history shows very little success. Even the extradition of Thai nationals are clearly not straight forward...

"Thailand prosecutors in UK for ex-PM Thaksin extradition talks"

Don't recall that working out too well... however this plays out let's hope that the responsible party gets what's coming one way or another.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ferangled

[animatic]

"If his appeal is unsuccessful, Aldhouse will be the first British citizen ever extradited to face trial in Thailand"

I think this is the point many are missing here, past history shows very little success. Even the extradition of Thai nationals are clearly not straight forward...

"Thailand prosecutors in UK for ex-PM Thaksin extradition talks"

Don't recall that working out too well... however this plays out let's hope that the responsible party gets what's coming one way or another.

Yes, but there wasn't an extradition treaty for most all of those others.

There appears to be one now, and partly inpsired by the Thaksin debacle.

So, 'no one went before', is no longer a valid argument, since a frame work for this is now in place.

Some how I really don't think the Home Office wants this violent juice head walking the streets of England either; like a ticking bomb. Because if he 'snaps' again after not getting sent back for the same... it will be lots of facial egg to go around.

Edited May 23, 2012 by animatic

[Ferangled]

"If his appeal is unsuccessful, Aldhouse will be the first British citizen ever extradited to face trial in Thailand"

I think this is the point many are missing here, past history shows very little success. Even the extradition of Thai nationals are clearly not straight forward...

"Thailand prosecutors in UK for ex-PM Thaksin extradition talks"

Don't recall that working out too well... however this plays out let's hope that the responsible party gets what's coming one way or another.

Yes, but there wasn't an extradition treaty for most all of those others.

There appears to be one now, and partly inpsired by the Thaksin debacle.

So, 'no one went before', is no longer a valid argument, since a frame work for this is now in place.

Some how I really don't think the Home Office wants this violent juice head walking the streets of England either; like a ticking bomb. Because if he 'snaps' again after not getting sent back for the same... it will be lots of facial egg to go around.

Quite, there's plenty of them on the streets already, both back in the UK and here.

I thought that there had been an extradition treaty for quite a while though...

Treaty of Extradition between Thailand and Great Britain.

Signed Bangkok on 4th March 1911

http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/Treaty-Thailand-and-Great-Britain.html

I'm sure either way this case will set a legal precedent for future extraditions but I don't believe the death penalty will be the only hurdle. Defense lawyers tend to have quite a few tricks up their sleeves and I'm sure the "inhumane conditions in Thai jails card" will be played, whether successful or not we'll have to wait and see...

I'd like to think whether extradited or not, justice will be served. Personally, contrary to the beliefs of many on here, I actually think that justice is far more likely to be served in the UK (providing the evidence is sufficient); I've seen far too many cases in Thailand just disappear under the carpet. The corruption that exists here tends to favor those capable of applying monetary incentives... I'd hope that this case was high profile enough that this wouldn't be the case but again, history here would suggest that's not necessarily an issue...

[Ferangled]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

Between 1 January 2004 and 31 December 2011, the US made 134 requests for extradition to the UK authorities and 75 people were successfully sent to America for trial.

The UK made 57 extradition requests to the US and 40 people were successfully extradited.

To the best of our knowledge, British courts have refused to extradite seven people since 2004 but the Americans have never turned down a request from Britain.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Ferangled

[carra]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

another deluded american that believes their own hype

[softgeorge]

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

What on earth has it got to do with the U.S. This is between Thailand and England where does the U.S fit into the foriegn affairs of these two countries. A British guy allegedly committed an offence in Thailand and broke thai laws. I do not believe that the worlds police have any juristiction in either Thailand or England and the laws of the U.S to not apply to citizens of other countries unless of course those people may be in the U.S. I think for once the Americans should just keep thier noses out of other peoples homes and bugger off and stop being so rude.

[Buchholz]

Aldhouse appeal hearing today

PHUKET: British kickboxer Lee “Pitbull” Aldhouse will appear today (May 22) in the British High Court, appealing against his extradition to Thailand to face trial for the murder of American Deshawn Longfellow in Phuket in 2010.

Phuket kickboxer Aldhouse extradition hearing postponed

The UK High Court has agreed to postpone the extradition hearing of murder fugitive Lee Aldhouse so that his lawyers will have more time to prepare their case, the Phuket Gazette has learned.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....ring-postponed/

Edited June 2, 2012 by webfact
link to article added /Admin

[HansVilder]

in light of the very recent Gary McKinnon decision regarding his extradition to the US being blocked by the UK on 'health grounds' & concerns over his 'human rights' in harsh prison systems, i wonder what will become of this man...

will he face trial in Thailand? it looks unlikely now, doesn't it..?

[Nisa]

in light of the very recent Gary McKinnon decision regarding his extradition to the US being blocked by the UK on 'health grounds' & concerns over his 'human rights' in harsh prison systems, i wonder what will become of this man...

will he face trial in Thailand? it looks unlikely now, doesn't it..?

I think a completely different set of circumstances. McKinnon has mental issues and he can be tried for his crime in the UK. He lost all his appeals and my understanding is he got a pass because of his mental condition and the almost certainty he would off himself if removed from the UK (he also didn't kill a US Citizen). But there is also the flip side to the coin in terms of Thai Prison systems and if they can come up with UK citizens who have died or been harmed in Thai prisons (beyond what can normally be expected in prisons) in recent memory then he may have a very good case but so far it really isn't looking good for him. I wouldn't know the numbers but plenty of foreigners serve time in Thailand and are simply then sent home to serve their time under a prisoner transfer treaty. So, there would be little reason for them not to force him to stand trial in Thailand for the murder that seems very clear he committed in Thailand against a US citizen and veteran.

[theblether]

My reading of the McKinnon case is that he will not be extradited to the US to face charges however the Director of Public Prosecutions may decide to charge him in the UK.

I'm of the opinion that he will be charged and convicted in the UK.

[tfc]

Sooo.....is he here yet?

[FarangTalk]

in light of the very recent Gary McKinnon decision regarding his extradition to the US being blocked by the UK on 'health grounds' & concerns over his 'human rights' in harsh prison systems, i wonder what will become of this man...

will he face trial in Thailand? it looks unlikely now, doesn't it..?

I think a completely different set of circumstances. McKinnon has mental issues and he can be tried for his crime in the UK. He lost all his appeals and my understanding is he got a pass because of his mental condition and the almost certainty he would off himself if removed from the UK (he also didn't kill a US Citizen). But there is also the flip side to the coin in terms of Thai Prison systems and if they can come up with UK citizens who have died or been harmed in Thai prisons (beyond what can normally be expected in prisons) in recent memory then he may have a very good case but so far it really isn't looking good for him. I wouldn't know the numbers but plenty of foreigners serve time in Thailand and are simply then sent home to serve their time under a prisoner transfer treaty. So, there would be little reason for them not to force him to stand trial in Thailand for the murder that seems very clear he committed in Thailand against a US citizen and veteran.

The first reason why he shouldn't stand trial in Thailand is that the Thai authorities showed gross incompetence by allowing him to first escape Phuket island and then the country itself, so he is no longer physically there!

There are many other reasons why he shouldn't be sent back to Thailand, among them prison conditions, corruption within the court and justice system, handling of evidence, unreliable witness testimony etc.

The Thai authorities have only themselves to blame here, whatever the outcome of the hearing.

[Nisa]

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

What on earth has it got to do with the U.S. This is between Thailand and England where does the U.S fit into the foriegn affairs of these two countries. A British guy allegedly committed an offence in Thailand and broke thai laws. I do not believe that the worlds police have any juristiction in either Thailand or England and the laws of the U.S to not apply to citizens of other countries unless of course those people may be in the U.S. I think for once the Americans should just keep thier noses out of other peoples homes and bugger off and stop being so rude.

Although I have no idea if and what law the US could possible get involved in terms of getting him to the US but absolutely ridiculous to believe the US is not involved in the process when a US Citizen is killed .., especially a veteran. It is not only a basic requirement of the US to be involved.

[Nisa]

in light of the very recent Gary McKinnon decision regarding his extradition to the US being blocked by the UK on 'health grounds' & concerns over his 'human rights' in harsh prison systems, i wonder what will become of this man...

will he face trial in Thailand? it looks unlikely now, doesn't it..?

I think a completely different set of circumstances. McKinnon has mental issues and he can be tried for his crime in the UK. He lost all his appeals and my understanding is he got a pass because of his mental condition and the almost certainty he would off himself if removed from the UK (he also didn't kill a US Citizen). But there is also the flip side to the coin in terms of Thai Prison systems and if they can come up with UK citizens who have died or been harmed in Thai prisons (beyond what can normally be expected in prisons) in recent memory then he may have a very good case but so far it really isn't looking good for him. I wouldn't know the numbers but plenty of foreigners serve time in Thailand and are simply then sent home to serve their time under a prisoner transfer treaty. So, there would be little reason for them not to force him to stand trial in Thailand for the murder that seems very clear he committed in Thailand against a US citizen and veteran.

The first reason why he shouldn't stand trial in Thailand is that the Thai authorities showed gross incompetence by allowing him to first escape Phuket island and then the country itself, so he is no longer physically there!

There are many other reasons why he shouldn't be sent back to Thailand, among them prison conditions, corruption within the court and justice system, handling of evidence, unreliable witness testimony etc.

The Thai authorities have only themselves to blame here, whatever the outcome of the hearing.

You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about ... gross incompetence?!?!?

[FarangTalk]

You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about ... gross incompetence?!?!?

Letting a murder suspect in such a high profile case escape the island of Phuket and then flee the country altogether is an act of gross incompetence by the Thai Police.

[lizardtongue]

In my humble opinion the British will expedite his extradition simply because it is a reciprocal agreement which the British take advantage of more than the Thai's (I would suggest that there are more extradition requests from the UK than requests from Thailand) all the Thai authorities have to do is satisfy the UK police that there has been an offense that is extraditable and that the death penalty will not be sought.

This cowardly steroid bully boy has let his country and his chosen sport down, there is no reason why he will not be tried and if found guilty be sentenced to what I hope will be a substantial custodial sentence to be served in a Thai prison.

[cbrer]

Sure he'll be extradited....

On a flying pig.

Nobody should be extradited to the judicial system of Thailand. No matter what the crime.

What % of police entrance exam takers were caught paying 3 years of a basic policeman's salary in order to pass again?