Longer Trains Desperately Needed On The BTS Sukhumvit Line

[americaninbangkok]

<br />I agree with everything the writer of the article has to say, and with all of the subsequent replies. But while we're on the subject, could something be done to make the purchasing of a BTS ticket more efficient? I feel like I'm in a casino slotting ridiculous amouts of coins just for a one-way pass. And no change machines? Again waiting in line to see a real person who doles out change? How about upgrading the ticket machines to accept 20,50 and 100 baht notes? That might make the ride experience a lot less frustrating. Thanks for reading.<img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/jap.gif" /><br />

You could always buy a BTS card (20 baht) and refill with lets 200 baht, and you don't have that problem anymore... :S

That doesn't address the absurdity of the system; and absurd it is, particularly when compared to the MRT. In fact, the machines cannot even take so-called new coins, by which they mean newly minted.

Besides which, stored-value tickets would be more attractive if they offered a discount.

Seriously... we're in 2011. What major city in the world has a metro sysem that requires you talk to a station agent to get your tickets anymore? Is this a jobs protection racket?! Installing fare machines that accept credit cards, debit cards, notes and coins should have been the norm 12 years ago when the BTS was opened (yes... people already used debit and credit card in 1999). But why these have not been retroactively installed at existing stations, and why these have not been standardly installed as part of the opening of any new station is beyond me. Then again, why the BTS, MRT, BRT and Airport Rail Link are not integrated is beyond me, too!

But what do I know... I am not a highly paid/influential politician and I just don't understand how contracting for such things works. Maybe it is more cost-effective to go back and fix broken things than to get it right the first time. This way, the supplier/vendors need to keep coming back again and again. Hmmm... I wonder if there is any financial upside to this kind of arrangement (he asked sarcastically)?

[americaninbangkok]

Wow. How about making a call to the operators of the BTS line for some real news. That would have been a smart idea for a "freelance writer."

Here are opportune parts where he could have sought comment from BTS operators:

as BTS has made no recent mention of it. WHY NOT CALL THEM and ASK WHY?

so BTS may be reluctant to expand their service. WHY NOT ASK THEM?

Perhaps they have plans but have not announced them. This article is just a rant.

Actualy, I think this DOES constitute investigative reporting in Thailand!

Asking questions to those in power is futile.

So we just ask questions to one another and hope.

And hope.

And hope.

But it's not like a journalist is going to get to the bottom of anything here.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I use the Sukhumvit line almost daily, and have for some years...

And while it certainly has been getting busier...and rises and falls also based on tourist volumes, the difference pre and post opening of the Bearing extension has been like night and day....

It's gone from being packed/crowded sometimes and rarely missing a train... to being packed/crowded almost all the time and typically missing missing a train or two.... or trying to squeeze into already packed cars like one extra sardine....the whole central section between Siam and Thong Lor.... at least...

BTS is the best transit service in Bangkok... no doubt about it...and has a long track record of remarkably good service...

But they xxxxed the pooch with the new trains and associated problems on the Silom line, and now seem to be falling in another hole with the (horribly long delayed) opening of the Bearing extension and its very negative impact on the broader Sukhumvit line.

[MaxYakov]

excellent prognosis..but did that in depth analysis take into consideration the tracks ability to handle longer carriages safely?

im not sure but some of the curves are quite sharp ..

increasing the frequency does seem like a no brainer though...else ..buy a scooter..

Track loading is one thing, but how about train loading? Increased loads will doubtlessly increase motor, bearing and brake wear. A study I read of BART (SF Bay Area Rapid Transit) indicated that even a small increase in speed of only a few MPH increased wear on the propulsion system materially. Also, one wonders what the rated passenger load is for a BTS car. Incidentally, BART designers initially thought that each passenger would have a seat so the cars initially didn't have overhead straps/bars for standing passengers. Mass transit delusions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, the answer to the "why the lack of a common ticketing system" question among the BTS, MRT and ARL lines is both simple and stupid...

Each of the three lines is operated by a different corporate/government entity...with different people in charge.... and different overlords above them. And this is Thailand, so what would you expect...

They've been promising some kind of common ticketing system at least among BTS and MRT for some years now... and I lately heard once again next year.... But seems like I've been hearing that same answer for quite a few years already.

And of course BTS and MRT use different fare media.... BTS the cards and MRT the coin tokens... But you'd think they'd be able to develop some kind of scannable pass that could function in both systems.... without one or the other having to re-do their entire ticket gates system.

[markdoj]

Good Morning,

As I am involved in the engineering of trains and railway in the region; I think it is ok for me to put across some facts. I must stress; I do not work for BTS and have no knowledge of their issues, this information is based on general rail knowledge and I hope will go somewhere to explaining the decisions made, with regard to this problem.

When a rail link, metro or any other type of connection is built anywhere in the world; there is a study made of the 'rider' numbers. Each year this increases hopefully and as more and more connections are added, then more trains or a more frequent service is planned. Of course; these figures can only be estimated on an average over the time. It is inevitable that rider figures are going to be high at the beginning of a new connection. Usually; these figures fall with time and then level to an average over the coming years.

BTS bases their requirements for travel on this average figure. Usually; the people who do this calculation are a very professional bunch of people who get the figure right, in the long run.

There are other issues which are more technical. There are issues with headway which relates to the frequency of trains and also platform length (which I don't believe will be an issue, in Bangkok). However; due to the requirement to maintain journey times; then headway is a concern. This is where a train leaves a section between signals and another can enter...... This is for passenger safety. Safety is always the primary concern, in rail.

This has been highlighted recently in China, where many people lost their lives.

It is not as simple as adding trains, that would just be a financial issue. Certainly; there may be a way to add extra trains, but lengthening each train will impact upon journey times substantially. I hear you saying; 'but we are waiting at stations'; So, in quiet times are you happy to put a few minutes on your journey, maybe more? Its swings and roundabouts. Decisions are made for the whole day and not just rush hour times.

The financial implication with the adding of trains is approx. 2 Million US Dollars per car. I am not sure how many train sets BTS run, but I would imagine it would be 22 and 2-4 Spares. This is an increase of at a conservative guess; 30 million US Dollars. Add that to the already rising costs of maintenance for the line and you may see an increase in fares and a drop in passenger travel and therefore no requirement for the trains you have just spent money on.

For trains that are not used you require space, more yards, etc etc. More money and a deteriorating train service.

Be patient...... I am sure it will work itself out, soon.

Just information; How you take it is up to yourselves.

Mark.

[americaninbangkok]

BTW, the answer to the "why the lack of a common ticketing system" question among the BTS, MRT and ARL lines is both simple and stupid...

Each of the three lines is operated by a different corporate/government entity...with different people in charge.... and different overlords above them. And this is Thailand, so what would you expect...

They've been promising some kind of common ticketing system at least among BTS and MRT for some years now... and I lately heard once again next year.... But seems like I've been hearing that same answer for quite a few years already.

And of course BTS and MRT use different fare media.... BTS the cards and MRT the coin tokens... But you'd think they'd be able to develop some kind of scannable pass that could function in both systems.... without one or the other having to re-do their entire ticket gates system.

You said it! Even though there are different "companies" running the different lines, they could adopt some common interfaces... no different than Central being able to accept debit cards from multiple banks.

Yep... just checked... it is really 2011.

[americaninbangkok]

When a rail link, metro or any other type of connection is built anywhere in the world; there is a study made of the 'rider' numbers. ... Of course; these figures can only be estimated on an average over the time. ... BTS bases their requirements for travel on this average figure. Usually; the people who do this calculation are a very professional bunch of people who get the figure right, in the long run.

Mark: appreciate the input. And my comments are not intended to bitch at you.

But I believe the frustration most people are feeling here is that there is little or no information/responsiveness put forth by the very people whom we rely on to provide answers. The Airport Rail Link also had a "very professional bunch of people" who seemed to believe that ridership would be in the thousands for the express train. Day one of the grand opening in January, after six months of advertising and free rides, resulted in FOUR travelers! Whoever did that feasibility study should be sent to jail. And yet, the situation is only nominally better today after eight months, albeit at the expense of running the system at a very significant financial loss.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

but lengthening each train will impact upon journey times substantially.

I'm not a transportation engineer...but I don't follow the above comment...

How would going from 3 to 4 train sets add "substantially" to journey times?

[pkspeaker]

not only are the trains overcapacity since they added thebearing extension, the sukhumvit line is now failing altogether on what seems to be a daily issue, it just happened again yesterday they start saying there is a delay on the loudspeaker and that re-????? work is being done and that trains will now only come EVERY 10 MINUTES, so not only are the BTS management not adding more trains/carages they are unable to operate the system they have and they keep [deleted] up the cycle of trains they have on-tracks.

Edited September 5, 2011 by metisdead
Expletive deleted.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, BTS does have its own web bulletin board where passengers and others can post comments... From what I saw quickly there... lots of comments.... Not much in the way of BTS responses...

http://www.bts.co.th...7-webboard.aspx

They also have their various contact info:

Bangkok Mass Transit System Public Company Limited

BTS Building, 1000 Phahonyothin Rd., Chomphon, Chatuchak Bangkok 10900 Thailand Tel : (66) 2617 7300

Fax : (66) 2617 7133, 2617 7155

Email : nuduan(AT)bts.co.th

BTS Hotline : (66) 2617 6000 Daily from : 06.00-24.00 hrs.

It's interesting to note...on the English language version of their web site, they have pretty much NO news about the BTS line at all....

The most recent thing I could find re the Bearing extension at all was a photo of the Board of Directors inspecting the new stations prior to the start of its service... But not anything even about the opening itself.

Their corporate communications news web site is probably the best of a bad lot...

http://www.btsgroup..../commu_news.php

And here's the folks responsible for the current circumstance...

http://www.btsgroup....etail.php?id=73

And some background on the BTS board chairman....

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/85/thailands-richest-10_Keeree-Kanjanapas_NRTO.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeree_Kanjanapas

Edited September 5, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[markdoj]

In reply to you both:

Regarding the airport link ridership: Studies are done years in advance and are for a period of maybe 50 years. This is to enable a station to be used and not extended. I too think that the stations on the airport link are VERY big and over engineered for their purpose. However; the study was probably done years ago, when tourism was rising steadily and had been over the past 10 years. Since then we have seen tourism fall significantly, for many reasons. Some of which are Thailand's own doing. Airport Sieges, Bangkok riots etc. Some financial, which are the world's doing; such as the in crease of petrol and travellers cancelling or changing holidays to cheaper alternatives.

Who could have predicted this?

As I said..... Its probably a 50 year plan, maybe more. We would not like to see families displaced more than once, when land is required, would we?

Regarding headway.

Im not sure what the lengthy of route is on the BTS Maybe 20km or 15? As I said; Ive only used it, not worked on it.

You have 11 trainsets travelling between stations maybe 1km apart (approx) An average train is moving at 50km/hour (again Im not totally sure of this figure. So, by the time a train leaves a section, another train enters it..... This is the headway. Generally trains are required with a head way of 3 minutes to maintain journey times. So, to add a car will impact on that time. To add 11 cars per route each way will add 11 times that time.

I dont know the details but I would imagine there would be an overall journey time increase of upward of 10 minutes. This again is an estimate. I dont have details.

As I have also said; I dont work for BTS, so have nothing to gain by defending them.

From my own point of view; I am glad that Bangkok is expanding its services. I believe outside of Hong Kong, Singapore etc. the plans are the best in the world. Certainly first rate and I look forward to having them all open soon.

The issue with no information forthcoming is a Thai cultural thing...... I run a business here too, this is an issue for me daily, Im afraid.

I hope this helps?

Mark.

[Searat7]

I think they just have to add more trains travelling to accommodate the need. Longer routes mean more commuters and so that demands more trains specially in rush hours. I took the MRT (subway) last week in the morning between eight to nine, I had to wait for the next train to get on the ride, there were lots of commuters and it was so crowded.

Adding more trains is not the answer because you need safe intervals between the trains to avoid accidents- i think they run 3 minutes apart at the busy times of the day. The only solution is to add more cars to the existing trains. The On Nut -Bearing extension was finished a year ago except for some technical item they overlooked so BTS has had ample time to secure more cars for their trains.

[midas]

They are probably running on a very tight budget but if the local authorities in Bangkok

got their act together they should be levying a tax on the developers of all these condominium

buildings that have sprung up along the BTS route in recent years and part of that tax

could be paid as a subsidy to BTS as a condition of them providing an adequate service.

After all many of these new condominiums would have much less appeal if it wasn't for

the BTS service. In UK this is called a " planning gain " and it should be part and parcel of

granting permission for the building to go up. no forward thinking that's the problem.

Edited September 5, 2011 by midas

[berryranger]

since we cannot do anything with the BTS, what we can do is to avoid the rush hours by getting up earlier or later, then work longer hours or hang around more in order to catch a late train back home

Edited September 5, 2011 by berryranger

[noitom]

This BTS train crowding was obvious long ago. Thai are not capable of planning and ignored repeated observations for many years before. If I'm not mistaken BTS was acquired by the media company that does the advertising on the BTS stations and cars, so longer cars would provide additional channels for more advertising revenue. Together with added fares and additional advertising, this would be the business plan for purchasing additional cars, plus the Thai scheme of kickbacks to merchants at Emporium and Paragon should be more than enough funding and cash flow for at least two additional cars on each train. However, it will take the Thais another ten years to figure out how to split up the money and therefore never getting around to even thinking about customers, risk, and mass transit. Anyway, the elite all drive to work and around shopping so they would never be found dead in a BTS train no matter three or five car length. - noitom

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You have 11 trainsets travelling between stations maybe 1km apart (approx) An average train is moving at 50km/hour (again Im not totally sure of this figure. So, by the time a train leaves a section, another train enters it..... This is the headway. Generally trains are required with a head way of 3 minutes to maintain journey times. So, to add a car will impact on that time. To add 11 cars per route each way will add 11 times that time.

I dont know the details but I would imagine there would be an overall journey time increase of upward of 10 minutes. This again is an estimate. I dont have details.

Mark, I'm not attacking you or your comments...Just trying to understand the basis by which you arrive at them...

Your comment above assumes EVERY train on the line would have an added car.. I don't know there's any reason that necessarily would have to be the case...

Likewise, headways may be 3 minutes at some times of the day, but are significantly more spaced out during much of the day, according to the BTS's schedules.

Ultimately, I don't think either you or I know what the actual time increase would be... So you're making an assumption of multiplying some unknown number by 11 to get to your result... And, above all that, it wouldn't necessarily have to be all 11.

Adding additional trains...I absolutely see where that would have an impact on journey times at peak hours... Adding an extra car to train sets...much less so...I'd think.

Edited September 5, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[infernalman7]

In reply to you both:

Regarding the airport link ridership: Studies are done years in advance and are for a period of maybe 50 years. This is to enable a station to be used and not extended. I too think that the stations on the airport link are VERY big and over engineered for their purpose. However; the study was probably done years ago, when tourism was rising steadily and had been over the past 10 years. Since then we have seen tourism fall significantly, for many reasons. Some of which are Thailand's own doing. Airport Sieges, Bangkok riots etc. Some financial, which are the world's doing; such as the in crease of petrol and travellers cancelling or changing holidays to cheaper alternatives.

Who could have predicted this?

As I said..... Its probably a 50 year plan, maybe more. We would not like to see families displaced more than once, when land is required, would we?

Regarding headway.

Im not sure what the lengthy of route is on the BTS Maybe 20km or 15? As I said; Ive only used it, not worked on it.

You have 11 trainsets travelling between stations maybe 1km apart (approx) An average train is moving at 50km/hour (again Im not totally sure of this figure. So, by the time a train leaves a section, another train enters it..... This is the headway. Generally trains are required with a head way of 3 minutes to maintain journey times. So, to add a car will impact on that time. To add 11 cars per route each way will add 11 times that time.

I dont know the details but I would imagine there would be an overall journey time increase of upward of 10 minutes. This again is an estimate. I dont have details.

As I have also said; I dont work for BTS, so have nothing to gain by defending them.

From my own point of view; I am glad that Bangkok is expanding its services. I believe outside of Hong Kong, Singapore etc. the plans are the best in the world. Certainly first rate and I look forward to having them all open soon.

The issue with no information forthcoming is a Thai cultural thing...... I run a business here too, this is an issue for me daily, Im afraid.

I hope this helps?

Mark.

You understood everything correctly. Headway is the MAIN concern here.. something the public barely considers when they criticize any rail systems.

Especially for Airport Link. This is why frequency isn't really an option, especially when the trains are running on higher speeds, headway becomes more and more important. For those who complain that Airport Link needs more train, all I can say is that technically it can add only 2 more trains per hour and that's the maximum. Headway cannot be lower than 5 minutes for each train for the system, and you'll have to keep in mind that Express trains are also running on the very same track as the local Cityline trains.

The 50-year plan has been done for Airport Rail Link and the only solution is to add more and more cars to each train. The plan was that they will not increase the frequency at all, but they will run 4 car trains in the near future after the arrival of 2 more trains. After that, they will run a 4+3 car train in rush hours. (7-car train). If that isn't enough in 30 years? Then they will use 4+3+3 car trains. Hence why the stations are so massively long.

[infernalman7]

You have 11 trainsets travelling between stations maybe 1km apart (approx) An average train is moving at 50km/hour (again Im not totally sure of this figure. So, by the time a train leaves a section, another train enters it..... This is the headway. Generally trains are required with a head way of 3 minutes to maintain journey times. So, to add a car will impact on that time. To add 11 cars per route each way will add 11 times that time.

I dont know the details but I would imagine there would be an overall journey time increase of upward of 10 minutes. This again is an estimate. I dont have details.

Mark, I'm not attacking you or your comments...Just trying to understand the basis by which you arrive at them...

Your comment above assumes EVERY train on the line would have an added car.. I don't know there's any reason that necessarily would have to be the case...

Likewise, headways may be 3 minutes at some times of the day, but are significantly more spaced out during much of the day, according to the BTS's schedules.

Ultimately, I don't think either you or I know what the actual time increase would be... So you're making an assumption of multiplying some unknown number by 11 to get to your result... And, above all that, it wouldn't necessarily have to be all 11.

Adding additional trains...I absolutely see where that would have an impact on journey times at peak hours... Adding an extra car to train sets...much less so...I'd think.

I think there's a confusion between adding a car to a train and adding an additional train into an operating hour.

[midas]

This BTS train crowding was obvious long ago. Thai are not capable of planning and ignored repeated observations for many years before. If I'm not mistaken BTS was acquired by the media company that does the advertising on the BTS stations and cars, so longer cars would provide additional channels for more advertising revenue. Together with added fares and additional advertising, this would be the business plan for purchasing additional cars, plus the Thai scheme of kickbacks to merchants at Emporium and Paragon should be more than enough funding and cash flow for at least two additional cars on each train. However, it will take the Thais another ten years to figure out how to split up the money and therefore never getting around to even thinking about customers, risk, and mass transit. Anyway, the elite all drive to work and around shopping so they would never be found dead in a BTS train no matter three or five car length. - noitom

Yes well it's a good job all elite around the world don't think the same way

Here is Michael Bloomberg supposedly worth $ 5.5 Billion but it doesn't stop him from using Public transport.

[lomatopo]

Published (on each platform) interval times on the Sukhumvit Line run from 2:38 to 6:00 minutes, depending on the time of day.

With ~ 35% more track, as a result of the Bearing Extension, and extra 3-car sets, the Sukhumvit Line should be able to handle additional capacity.

I think the BTS is still juggling scheduling and interval times. And it may be challenging to maintain interval times as the trains are stopped in the stations for a much longer time as pax struggle on and off?

[blackout]

they spent almost 4 years for the extension of about.. 5kms? i am sure they has been very busy till forgot about the extra number of people on a small road such as sukhumvit! no planing, no multitasks working style at all for the last 4 year of building.

BTS has announced that it will tackle the overcrowding by adding two trains to its rush-hour schedule.

ha ha, that's funny. hope fully they add more 2 trains!

[thaiedward]

Logistics aside, the pushy behavior exhibited on railway platforms and elevator portals is less-than-civilized...dangerous, as well.

[exalll]

since we cannot do anything with the BTS, what we can do is to avoid the rush hours by getting up earlier or later, then work longer hours or hang around more in order to catch a late train back home

Indeed, when the terminus was at On Nut, I used to take the first train every morning so as to avoid travelling by taxi down Sukhumwit in heavy traffic. Now that the terminus (Bearing) is much closer to my home I was thinking that, not having the same taxi ride, I would not have to catch the first train any more. But having experienced a train departing at 7AM once last week, I am back to the earliest departure to avoid all the problems described in this article

[Estrada]

It is quite possible that engineering limitations are the problem. Adding an extra idler car to a 3 car unit won't work if the motors don't provide enough torque to get a fully laden 4 car unit moving.

The stations are designed for a 6 car train (probably a double 3??) but they may have bought cheaper circuit breakers for the initial demand. While upgrading to higher amperage breakers with what are essentially plug-in units is fairly simple, finding the funding and/or motivation might not be.

The BTS is designed for 6 car sets with two push me pull you motor units. I found that the trains were less crowded than previously as the were operating the trains at maximum frequency with the next train visible in the previous station. On one occasion last Friday, they appeared to reduce the frequency perhaps to enable the passenngers to be packed in to make them feel more at home as they are used to be packed in like sardines when travelling on the bus.

The BTS SkyTrain system is designed to handle a maximum of 50,000 passengers per hour per direction. This is achieved when the 6-car trains (the maximum that the platforms are built to accommodate) run at a headway of approximately 2 minutes. Current peak hour capacity (as of 30 October 2010) as measured by ‘peak loading’ is approximately 19,000 passengers [per hour per direction] for both morning and evening peak hours on the Sukhumvit Line. The peak loading capacity for BTS SkyTrain – Silom Line is approximately 11,000 passengers for both morning and evening peak hours. BTS Group continues to invest in additional rolling stock and improvements in the signaling system in order to accommodate anticipated growth in ridership.

The last I heard from my mole inside BTS, is that the additional carriages delivered by Siemens to enable BTS to run 4-car sets, are still in the port at Laem Chabang, due to some technicalities between Siemens and BTS

[thaigold]

In all fairness, I'd choose the BTS over the New York Metro any day. Dirty, dangerous, and really crowded. Jai Yen Yen.

[David48]

Good Morning,

As I am involved in the engineering of trains and railway in the region; I think it is ok for me to put across some facts. I must stress; I do not work for BTS and have no knowledge of their issues, this information is based on general rail knowledge and I hope will go somewhere to explaining the decisions made, with regard to this problem.

When a rail link, metro or any other type of connection is built anywhere in the world; there is a study made of the 'rider' numbers. Each year this increases hopefully and as more and more connections are added, then more trains or a more frequent service is planned. Of course; these figures can only be estimated on an average over the time. It is inevitable that rider figures are going to be high at the beginning of a new connection. Usually; these figures fall with time and then level to an average over the coming years.

BTS bases their requirements for travel on this average figure. Usually; the people who do this calculation are a very professional bunch of people who get the figure right, in the long run.

There are other issues which are more technical. There are issues with headway which relates to the frequency of trains and also platform length (which I don't believe will be an issue, in Bangkok). However; due to the requirement to maintain journey times; then headway is a concern. This is where a train leaves a section between signals and another can enter...... This is for passenger safety. Safety is always the primary concern, in rail.

This has been highlighted recently in China, where many people lost their lives.

It is not as simple as adding trains, that would just be a financial issue. Certainly; there may be a way to add extra trains, but lengthening each train will impact upon journey times substantially. I hear you saying; 'but we are waiting at stations'; So, in quiet times are you happy to put a few minutes on your journey, maybe more? Its swings and roundabouts. Decisions are made for the whole day and not just rush hour times.

The financial implication with the adding of trains is approx. 2 Million US Dollars per car. I am not sure how many train sets BTS run, but I would imagine it would be 22 and 2-4 Spares. This is an increase of at a conservative guess; 30 million US Dollars. Add that to the already rising costs of maintenance for the line and you may see an increase in fares and a drop in passenger travel and therefore no requirement for the trains you have just spent money on.

For trains that are not used you require space, more yards, etc etc. More money and a deteriorating train service.

Be patient...... I am sure it will work itself out, soon.

Just information; How you take it is up to yourselves.

Mark.

+1 Mark ... thanks for the sensible comment.

[impulse]

In all fairness, I'd choose the BTS over the New York Metro any day. Dirty, dangerous, and really crowded. Jai Yen Yen.

I'm with you. The BTS, with all its faults is a far cry better than several Asian systems I've been on.

I'm new in Bangkok and just bought a 45 trip pass for 900 baht. That's $0.66 for a trip from Bearing to anywhere the BTS goes. What a deal.

At least that's the way the nice lady explained it to me when I bought the card- or maybe my understanding of the local English dialect needs some refining?

Edited September 5, 2011 by impulse

[David48]

<br />I agree with everything the writer of the article has to say, and with all of the subsequent replies. But while we're on the subject, could something be done to make the purchasing of a BTS ticket more efficient? I feel like I'm in a casino slotting ridiculous amouts of coins just for a one-way pass. And no change machines? Again waiting in line to see a real person who doles out change? How about upgrading the ticket machines to accept 20,50 and 100 baht notes? That might make the ride experience a lot less frustrating. Thanks for reading.<img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/jap.gif" /><br />

You could always buy a BTS card (20 baht) and refill with lets 200 baht, and you don't have that problem anymore... :S

That doesn't address the absurdity of the system; and absurd it is, particularly when compared to the MRT. In fact, the machines cannot even take so-called new coins, by which they mean newly minted.

Besides which, stored-value tickets would be more attractive if they offered a discount.

Seriously... we're in 2011. What major city in the world has a metro sysem that requires you talk to a station agent to get your tickets anymore? Is this a jobs protection racket?! Installing fare machines that accept credit cards, debit cards, notes and coins should have been the norm 12 years ago when the BTS was opened (yes... people already used debit and credit card in 1999). But why these have not been retroactively installed at existing stations, and why these have not been standardly installed as part of the opening of any new station is beyond me. Then again, why the BTS, MRT, BRT and Airport Rail Link are not integrated is beyond me, too!

But what do I know... I am not a highly paid/influential politician and I just don't understand how contracting for such things works. Maybe it is more cost-effective to go back and fix broken things than to get it right the first time. This way, the supplier/vendors need to keep coming back again and again. Hmmm... I wonder if there is any financial upside to this kind of arrangement (he asked sarcastically)?

Kuala Lumpur, Tokyo and Singapore from my travels in the last year ... you can buy a ticket from a person. Otherwise all 4 cities (including Bangkok) have a manual option wich is undoubtly good for tourists.

Actually you can't 'buy' a ticket from a BTS station ... they only give you either helpfil advice or change for the automatic ticketing machine ... so what was your point again considering that this was an article about the BTS?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The last I heard from my mole inside BTS, is that the additional carriages delivered by Siemens to enable BTS to run 4-car sets, are still in the port at Laem Chabang, due to some technicalities between Siemens and BTS

"Technical difficulties" like, perhaps, they haven't paid the bill...

Or...haven't paid the proper tea money to someone to release them from customs limbo...

BTW, the above comment certainly seems to suggest that BTS continues to have plans to run 4-car sets on the Sukhumvit line...

Edited September 5, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK