Pardon For Thaksin Is The Mandate Of HM: Chalerm

[Thai at Heart]

If the title Ajarn was utilized as an official title (the same as police or military titles are), then one would expect to see that title in front of Abhisit's name, or any other educator for that matter, in the media or government websites. But they don't. As that's not done in Thailand, then I won't break tradition.

You want to tell that to the numerous "English" teachers who use this monikor to try and give the impression they are important....

I remember being admonished by a very busy body little man once "mai chai khroo, bpen ajarn". People still laugh about it in the pub.

[Valentine]

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

You disagree with the law. What else is new? The onus is on you to show that the law does not allow for a pardon request to be made. A pardon can be requested, but a pardon does not have to be granted. Have you even read the law? Look at what it says;

Individual Royal Pardon is granted as a matter of routine procedure. Any convicted prisoner or a concerned person wishing to petition his Majesty the King praying for pardon may do so by submitting such petition through official channel. However, whether or not the pardon is granted shall be subject to the King's discretion based on the recommendation submitted by the Minister of Justice. Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice

[/size]

I suggest that you and your friends make an effort and read the law. The request for a pardon is lawful. There is no requirement for there to have been any time in custody served. Read the big paragraph below. If you have a problem with the law, go and lobby to have the law changed.

The pardon may be either in the form of an unconditional release,a commutation or reduction of punishment. This depends on the discretion of HisMajesty the King as stated in Section 221 and 225 of the Constitution (B.E.2540) and Section 259 to 267 of Division 7: Pardon, Commutation and Reductionof Punishment in the Criminal Procedure Code Amendment Act (No. 23), B.E. 2548.Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice.

The reason that the pardon process is being moved along now is that other pardons will most likely be granted on December 5.

You're mistaken in your belief that I disagree with the law. I don't.

I've read the law, including the actual provisions that aren't on the general info webpage for the Corrections Dept. that you quote.

What I was asking of Chalerm, and you too now, is what I wrote in my post.

Has there ever been a situation whereby someone was granted a Royal Pardon under similar circumstances?

.

By GK's law quotation above it would seem that you have to actually be in jail for the convict or anyone else to apply for a pardon.

The definition of prisoner.

prisoner [ˈprɪzənə]

n

1. (Law) a person deprived of liberty and kept in prison or some other form of custody as a punishment for a crime, while awaiting trial, or for some other reason

[EyesWideOpen]

More poor usage of English...... The only mandate here is from Thaksin to Chalerm to push through this pardon nonsense. NO ONE can mandate anything to HM...

[timekeeper]

Did Police Captain Chalerm's legal brief cite ANY previous occasion where a fugitive was granted a Royal Pardon?

Or ANY situation when a Royal Pardon was granted to anyone who had not served so much as even a day of their sentence?

Or ANY convict who received a Royal Pardon who had never admitted guilt?

Please note that the gentleman is Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung not Police Captain. Would you have referred to the defeated PM Abhisit as Ajarn Mark? After all, the former PM did work as a teacher for a few months before he took his secure seat in the house.

You disagree with the law. What else is new? The onus is on you to show that the law does not allow for a pardon request to be made. A pardon can be requested, but a pardon does not have to be granted. Have you even read the law? Look at what it says;

Individual Royal Pardon is granted as a matter of routine procedure. Any convicted prisoner or a concerned person wishing to petition his Majesty the King praying for pardon may do so by submitting such petition through official channel. However, whether or not the pardon is granted shall be subject to the King's discretion based on the recommendation submitted by the Minister of Justice. Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice

I suggest that you and your friends make an effort and read the law. The request for a pardon is lawful. There is no requirement for there to have been any time in custody served. Read the big paragraph below. If you have a problem with the law, go and lobby to have the law changed.

The pardon may be either in the form of an unconditional release,a commutation or reduction of punishment. This depends on the discretion of HisMajesty the King as stated in Section 221 and 225 of the Constitution (B.E.2540) and Section 259 to 267 of Division 7: Pardon, Commutation and Reductionof Punishment in the Criminal Procedure Code Amendment Act (No. 23), B.E. 2548.Source- Thai Department of Corrections & Justice.

The reason that the pardon process is being moved along now is that other pardons will most likely be granted on December 5.

''After all, the former PM did work as a teacher for a few months before he took his secure seat in the house.''

you told me in another thread that he had never done any work outside politics and that i was wrong for saying he had worked

more evidence of you being an dunce..................

Wasn't that as part of his national service? If so, that doesn't really class itself as work per se.

i wasn't asking you and i am sure geriatrickid does not need you to act as his minder...........

he won't answer anyway, god forbid he would admit that he is wrong about something

his arrogance knows no bounds...........

Edited September 6, 2011 by timekeeper

[houseinbkk]

I wonder whether he has been given private planes from his billionaire mates to visit Thailand over the last few years, wouldnt be too difficult with his wealth and connections.

[lannarebirth]

It may well be that the investment in puppets Thaksin has made regarding his personal situation and indeed his aims may well turn out to be an expensive failure.

(This is a copy of a post made by me elsewhere in the forum concerning this delicate matter.)

Unluckily he can afford it SP.... with others moneys..!

I'm paraphrasing, but former puppet PM Samak once said "Thaksin has enough money to buy everyone and everything in Thailand" Some people here seem to love that idea, and some of us don't.

[lannarebirth]

That's the plan.

Depends if they want a coup or not.

It does appear that they want to bring things to a head. Basically to shift responsibility of this 'pardon' to the Royal Household in any way possible. If it gets rejected it'll be people in the street and then what? Will they take over until Thaksin is given a pardon?

Chalerm, Yingluck, Thaksin & the UDD are not stupid. This along with their 'red villages' appears to be a push towards calling the bluff of the army, who will certainly face opposition in any coup attempt.

They aren't stupid, but I think they may be over estimating the willingness of the people to take to streets apparently "against" someone who is so revered. It would also give the army the absolute justification to step in. People on the street to protest in this situation would shake the very foundation of modern Thailand and would never be allowed to happen. There wouldn't be any sitting on hands while people were allowed to set up large scale protest.

The way they are going about this will have to be handled extremely deftly so I don't think that having people on the streets is part of the plan. This petition will not be allowed to compel any decision. No way.

I think it's pretty clear he's playing for a dynastic change. As powerful as he would seem to be, I think he's overreaching.

[lannarebirth]

It is almost impossible to pull a coup right now. There will be utter chaos. The international community will not be easy on it this time. There is no popular movement on the streets demanding anything. Lots of people are awaiting things form the populist policies and wont take kindly to any extra-parliamentary action that stops these I would guess that PTP know given time some of these things may change, but right now they have all the momentum. They have certainly learnt since Samak days that to sit back and go easy is to invite downfall.

I still think the legislative amnesty is the likely way (after all that is the route the coupmeisters used to amnesty themselves) but that is complicated by the red shirts continually rejecting amnestying anyone who was involved in the April/May stuff in way at all. They are demanding that is investigated and people punished.

In reality the full court press may just be PTP pushing hard while they cement their control over the bureaucracy which right now is still stuffed at the higher levels at least with people promoted by the Dem-BJT axis because they were known and trusted anti-PTPers

"Almost" impossible is the operative phrase. The way I see it, there are certain lines that have been agreed not to be crossed to allow PTP to be back in power, with some kind of planned return for Thaksin probably being part of it.

However, if the case is that not pardoning him is seen to create ANY anti-feeling or protests, I can quite easily see the army coming out . Beyond that, I can see a huge backlash from the vast majority of the population. I also don't believe that the response from international community would be quite as against it as you may believe. The system in Thailand is based around a constitutional monarchy, and any change to it would throw the country into chaos for quite sometime. This system has allowed Thailand to engage with the West and other parts of the world very well for many years, and I am not going to get into a debate of rights and wrongs, but I tell you what, it is a hell of a lot better than any other option.

The very crux of the problem in Thailand has been parliamentary corruption and the confused role of the army for donkeys years. I don't expect it to get much worse or much better under PTP, but if they try to see what people's reaction might be if they paint a bad picture of any pardon and it leads to any protest, I think they may be surprised. There will be only one winner in the eyes of the people, and the fallout for PTP and any protesters would be horrendous.

I tried my best not to overstep any mark writing this.

Absolutely correct in every regard. They're overreaching. It will bring a shitstorm which they will not survive.

[katana]

I love this place !!!!!! Here we have one crook working on pardoning another crook.. Miracle Thailand indeed, where the inmates have taken over the asylum... :-)

lol

[moe666]

Easy solution just set on it, Pigeon hole it no problem then

[sfbandung]

I love the stoushes on these threads.

Is it naive of me to think that if he came back, went to the clink and applied for a pardon from there that public opinion might shift a little his way?

Or is there too much chance that he'd then have to spend the next two years there? Or that he really believes he's innocent? The law looks pretty clear to me. He (his wife) did it. It was against the law. Or does he adopt the Nixonesque position that if he did it, it isn't against the law.

Sometimes the arguments get very complicated when the issue is relatively simple. He was found guilty under law, he can only legitimately be found innocent under law. Saying the judicial prcess was flawed gets us nowhere, the only other option we have is anarchy. We tried that and it was nasty.

Edited September 6, 2011 by sfbandung

[craigt3365]

One post advocating violence has been removed.

[animatic]

I love the stoushes on these threads.

Is it naive of me to think that if he came back, went to the clink and applied for a pardon from there that public opinion might shift a little his way?

Or is there too much chance that he'd then have to spend the next two years there? Or that he really believes he's innocent? The law looks pretty clear to me. He (his wife) did it. It was against the law. Or does he adopt the Nixonesque position that if he did it, it isn't against the law.

Sometimes the arguments get very complicated when the issue is relatively simple. He was found guilty under law, he can only legitimately be found innocent under law. Saying the judicial prcess was flawed gets us nowhere, the only other option we have is anarchy. We tried that and it was nasty.

He appears to take the stance if he did it an someone complains it is their political jealousy and not the law that is in the wrong. Hubris of the highest order at play.

[lannarebirth]

I love the stoushes on these threads.

Is it naive of me to think that if he came back, went to the clink and applied for a pardon from there that public opinion might shift a little his way?

Or is there too much chance that he'd then have to spend the next two years there? Or that he really believes he's innocent? The law looks pretty clear to me. He (his wife) did it. It was against the law. Or does he adopt the Nixonesque position that if he did it, it isn't against the law.

Sometimes the arguments get very complicated when the issue is relatively simple. He was found guilty under law, he can only legitimately be found innocent under law. Saying the judicial prcess was flawed gets us nowhere, the only other option we have is anarchy. We tried that and it was nasty.

He's not looking at 2 years, he's looking at life, and if the terrorism charge can be proved, which prima facie wise he is absolutely guilty of, he's looking at death. That would be a good day for Thailand.

[animatic]

It is almost impossible to pull a coup right now. There will be utter chaos. The international community will not be easy on it this time. There is no popular movement on the streets demanding anything. Lots of people are awaiting things form the populist policies and wont take kindly to any extra-parliamentary action that stops these I would guess that PTP know given time some of these things may change, but right now they have all the momentum. They have certainly learnt since Samak days that to sit back and go easy is to invite downfall.

I still think the legislative amnesty is the likely way (after all that is the route the coupmeisters used to amnesty themselves) but that is complicated by the red shirts continually rejecting amnestying anyone who was involved in the April/May stuff in way at all. They are demanding that is investigated and people punished.

In reality the full court press may just be PTP pushing hard while they cement their control over the bureaucracy which right now is still stuffed at the higher levels at least with people promoted by the Dem-BJT axis because they were known and trusted anti-PTPers

"Almost" impossible is the operative phrase. The way I see it, there are certain lines that have been agreed not to be crossed to allow PTP to be back in power, with some kind of planned return for Thaksin probably being part of it.

However, if the case is that not pardoning him is seen to create ANY anti-feeling or protests, I can quite easily see the army coming out . Beyond that, I can see a huge backlash from the vast majority of the population. I also don't believe that the response from international community would be quite as against it as you may believe. The system in Thailand is based around a constitutional monarchy, and any change to it would throw the country into chaos for quite sometime. This system has allowed Thailand to engage with the West and other parts of the world very well for many years, and I am not going to get into a debate of rights and wrongs, but I tell you what, it is a hell of a lot better than any other option.

The very crux of the problem in Thailand has been parliamentary corruption and the confused role of the army for donkeys years. I don't expect it to get much worse or much better under PTP, but if they try to see what people's reaction might be if they paint a bad picture of any pardon and it leads to any protest, I think they may be surprised. There will be only one winner in the eyes of the people, and the fallout for PTP and any protesters would be horrendous.

I tried my best not to overstep any mark writing this.

Absolutely correct in every regard. They're overreaching. It will bring a shitstorm which they will not survive.

More aptly they are being instructed to grasp as much as they can, and pressure applied to make it sooner than later. Arrogance from above ruling over common sense, and That last is the main reason this will likely end in tears for millions. And if the boss moves too fast, too soon as seems to be happening, then he is not the one that the greater silent majority will side with when push comes to shove. Moves like this from Chalerm seem to push the envelope of 'commonly understood proprieties' and their relation to 'mass held loyalties' far too close to the breaking points

[Valentine]

Is it possible that some of these politicians all suffer from some form of megalomania & feel they do not have to follow the same rules as the majority. Judging by news reports over the years many of them have managed to circumvent the law & seemingly get away with very serious crimes. It continuously astounds me that others get thrown in jail for long periods, even for what I consider minor crimes, yet the rich & powerful never get brought to book. You could probably count on one hand the number that have actually served time. Until some serious charges & jail terms are handed out politicians will always treat Thailand like their own personal fiefdom & we will never see any sincere people in government.

[lannarebirth]

Is it possible that some of these politicians all suffer from some form of megalomania & feel they do not have to follow the same rules as the majority. Judging by news reports over the years many of them have managed to circumvent the law & seemingly get away with very serious crimes. It continuously astounds me that others get thrown in jail for long periods, even for what I consider minor crimes, yet the rich & powerful never get brought to book. You could probably count on one hand the number that have actually served time. Until some serious charges & jail terms are handed out politicians will always treat Thailand like their own personal fiefdom & we will never see any sincere people in government.

Yes, that's how things work here, Except the last Prime Minister wasn't a crook, and you know what, the previous Prime Minister from his party wasn't a crook either, and now that I'm recollecting, the one before that from the same party wasn't a crrok also. Everyone else is, sure.

[sfbandung]

I love the stoushes on these threads.

Is it naive of me to think that if he came back, went to the clink and applied for a pardon from there that public opinion might shift a little his way?

Or is there too much chance that he'd then have to spend the next two years there? Or that he really believes he's innocent? The law looks pretty clear to me. He (his wife) did it. It was against the law. Or does he adopt the Nixonesque position that if he did it, it isn't against the law.

Sometimes the arguments get very complicated when the issue is relatively simple. He was found guilty under law, he can only legitimately be found innocent under law. Saying the judicial prcess was flawed gets us nowhere, the only other option we have is anarchy. We tried that and it was nasty.

He's not looking at 2 years, he's looking at life, and if the terrorism charge can be proved, which prima facie wise he is absolutely guilty of, he's looking at death. That would be a good day for Thailand.

Strong words. I'm trying to stand a little further from it than that.

Peace in Thailand would be nice. But these attempts to circumvent the due process of law run the very serious risk of pushing that further away.

[Oberkommando]

Absolutely correct in every regard. They're overreaching. It will bring a shitstorm which they will not survive.

I don't think so, in fact I think it's inevitable, and there will be no shitstorm, just a quiet shuffle to the side and continuation of tradition for appearance's sake.

[Oberkommando]

the previous Prime Minister from his party wasn't a crook either

If it is Chuan Leekpai you refer to the National Counter Corruption Commission convicted him of asset concealment.

As for Abhisit, many people regard him as a criminal for his stance on human rights. But that's only a matter of opinion at the moment, perhaps he will be held accountable as so many people hope Thaksin will be for his human rights violations.

[Buchholz]

Pardon For Thaksin Is The Mandate Of HM: Chalerm

it's now become...

Pardon For Thaksin Is The Mandate of Yingluck: Chalerm

[Buchholz]

Chalerm to Push forth Thaksin's Royal Pardon

ASTV has reported that Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung has been ordered by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to expedite the royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Chalerm says he is looking into December 5 as the date while noting that the law does not stipulate that the convict needs to serve part of his jail term first before he can be granted a royal pardon.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-07

Edited September 7, 2011 by Buchholz

[Oberkommando]

A Royal pardon and his funds returned!

To the victor go the spoils!

[hammered]

A Royal pardon and his funds returned!

To the victor go the spoils!

They certainly arent sitting around waiting for a bunch of court cases to be filed against them or Dr Tul to unleash his "millions" of multi-coloureds as a prelude to a military putsch to "save the country". It is all a little more sudden than I expected. Guess those Samak day lessons were learned. I wonder how much of what is happening was agreed in some deal pre-election, and how much was not?

[Buchholz]

Chalerm accuses previous govt of delaying Thaksin's petition

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung Wednesday accused the previous government of intentionally dragging its feet on an appeal by the red shirts for royal pardon to fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Chalerm dismissed as rumour media reports that the current government was going to discuss whether to seek royal pardon for Thaksin.

"There is no discussion. This is a rumour. The government has not done anything about this matter," he said.

The deputy premier said that the previous Democratled administration had shelved the petition by millions of the red shirts seeking royal pardon for Thaksin. "Don't think that people don't know what you did," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-09-07

[ratcatcher]

Chalerm to Push forth Thaksin's Royal Pardon

ASTV has reported that Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung has been ordered by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to expedite the royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Chalerm says he is looking into December 5 as the date while noting that the law does not stipulate that the convict needs to serve part of his jail term first before he can be granted a royal pardon.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-07

"...looking into December 5th as the date...".

I believe that is an auspicious occasion around here. Coincidence?

[siampolee]

1:

ASTV has reported that Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung has been ordered by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to expedite the royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Chalerm says he is looking into December 5 as the date while noting that the law does not stipulate that the convict needs to serve part of his jail term first before he can be granted a royal pardon.

2

Chalerm dismissed as rumour media reports that the current government was going to discuss whether to seek royal pardon for Thaksin.

"There is no discussion. This is a rumour. The government has not done anything about this matter," he said.

Does Chalerm actually know what is happening or has his puppet master got his strings tangled or her knckers twisted ?

Two conflicting reports concerning the same matter.

Again it is proved beyond doubt that duplicity is the hallmark of the P.T.P. and Chalerm.

Edited September 7, 2011 by siampolee

[rubl]

Chalerm to Push forth Thaksin's Royal Pardon

ASTV has reported that Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung has been ordered by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to expedite the royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Chalerm says he is looking into December 5 as the date while noting that the law does not stipulate that the convict needs to serve part of his jail term first before he can be granted a royal pardon.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-07

"...looking into December 5th as the date...".

I believe that is an auspicious occasion around here. Coincidence?

K. Chalerm can soon be accused of LM trying to politicise the k. Thaksin pardon and dragging

H.M. the King into it. If he were a member of TV he would have been suspended or banned by now I guess

[Insight]

Have they overrated their own popularity, or do they simply want to put it to the test...?

There's no optimism left here regardless.

[pedro01]

Remember, remember the 5th December...

Isn't this the same date that Jatuporn warned us that someone would be trying to overthrow the govt & for reds to get ready?

Isn't it just before his daughters wedding, the one he's hoped to be back for?

I guess lots of things will be happening in December then, at least we only have a few months before we find out how this is all going to play out.

It's a good job this wasn't a priority for the new government... otherwise he'd have been back 2 months already...