Chalerm Vows To Help Get Fugitive Ex-PM Thaksin Pardoned

[gemini81]

According to the Bangkok Post Charlem has now done a bit of a U-turn on this whole pardon nonsense...?

Sure is! I remember for sure, reading in the B. post about how he himslef mentioned it as no priority, and of course difficult. Maybe there's an archive on TV in which it states the things he previously said. What a bastard and a coward. Probably would never do the right thing or go against the grain, but just please anyone who he feels intimidated by.

[mca]

The reason that local opinion here in sunny Sichon reflect these views is because the education is far superior to that offered up in the North and North East of the country and the people can see what Pheu Thai REALLY stand for!!!!

You can't put a price on laser sharp political analysis like that Steve. My hat's off to you.

Edited September 9, 2011 by mca

[Ricardo]

Chalerm is kind of like the Suthep of PTP.

Indeed, and he also seems to be bidding to take-over the PM's role, going by the number of threads about what he is/isn't in-charge-of these days, which leaves the new PM free for ... erm ... erm ...

[jayboy]

They won a majority of house seats by around 3%. 3% that they may well not have garnered, had they not run a campaign that included a number of blatant bare-faced lies. Doesn't read to me as being a particularly "easy cruise".

And off we sail on another off-topic subject....

Here we go again .... the government didn't really win the last election and even if it scraped a dubious and probably corrupt win, it didn't deserve to.All variations on the deniers' theme

What somersaults of logic the deniers have to subject themselves to.

Might be more productive to consider why the Thai people gave the Democrats, the military and the other unelected elites such a slap round the face..and think about policies that might be more appealing to the country at large.

[AleG]

Chalerm is kind of like the Suthep of PTP.

Indeed, and he also seems to be bidding to take-over the PM's role, going by the number of threads about what he is/isn't in-charge-of these days, which leaves the new PM free for ... erm ... erm ...

Bidding?

He is the acting PM, Yingluck was the selling face since Chalerm is unelectable (although again, TIT ); do you think PTP would had won the election with Chalerm's mug in those posters instead of Yingluck?

It's like a smoke and mirrors puppet show.

[rixalex]

They won a majority of house seats by around 3%. 3% that they may well not have garnered, had they not run a campaign that included a number of blatant bare-faced lies. Doesn't read to me as being a particularly "easy cruise".

And off we sail on another off-topic subject....

Here we go again .... the government didn't really win the last election and even if it scraped a dubious and probably corrupt win, it didn't deserve to.All variations on the deniers' theme

What somersaults of logic the deniers have to subject themselves to.

Might be more productive to consider why the Thai people gave the Democrats, the military and the other unelected elites such a slap round the face..and think about policies that might be more appealing to the country at large.

Here we go again indeed.... on one of your straw man arguments. Totally misrepresenting my view.

Didn't say that the government didn't really win. They did. Point of contention is when vocabulary like "landslide" or "overwhelming majority", or, as in this case, "an easy cruise to win" is used. A 3% majority is not described, at least not accurately, by any of those terms. What would be accurate to say is that they narrowly won a majority, and did so on the back of a campaign that included a number of blatant lies. Did they deserve to win? Yes, they probably did, because even without those lies, i believe they still would have won more votes than the Dems - just a smaller margin and likely not the slender majority that they ended up with. And speaking of deserving, the Dems in my opinion, certainly did deserve to lose - not because of the way they performed when in power, but because of the way their campaigning was so miserable.

Here's a proposal for you: stop misrepresenting the truth and indulging in exaggeration, and i'll stop correcting you on it. Deal? Would save us both a lot of time.

[jayboy]

Here we go again indeed.... on one of your straw man arguments. Totally misrepresenting my view.

Didn't say that the government didn't really win. They did. Point of contention is when vocabulary like "landslide" or "overwhelming majority", or, as in this case, "an easy cruise to win" is used. A 3% majority is not described, at least not accurately, by any of those terms. What would be accurate to say is that they narrowly won a majority, and did so on the back of a campaign that included a number of blatant lies. Did they deserve to win? Yes, they probably did, because even without those lies, i believe they still would have won more votes than the Dems - just a smaller margin and likely not the slender majority that they ended up with. And speaking of deserving, the Dems in my opinion, certainly did deserve to lose - not because of the way they performed when in power, but because of the way their campaigning was so miserable.

Here's a proposal for you: stop misrepresenting the truth and indulging in exaggeration, and i'll stop correcting you on it. Deal? Would save us both a lot of time.

The government won the election comfortably.Deal with it.

[rixalex]

Here we go again indeed.... on one of your straw man arguments. Totally misrepresenting my view.

Didn't say that the government didn't really win. They did. Point of contention is when vocabulary like "landslide" or "overwhelming majority", or, as in this case, "an easy cruise to win" is used. A 3% majority is not described, at least not accurately, by any of those terms. What would be accurate to say is that they narrowly won a majority, and did so on the back of a campaign that included a number of blatant lies. Did they deserve to win? Yes, they probably did, because even without those lies, i believe they still would have won more votes than the Dems - just a smaller margin and likely not the slender majority that they ended up with. And speaking of deserving, the Dems in my opinion, certainly did deserve to lose - not because of the way they performed when in power, but because of the way their campaigning was so miserable.

Here's a proposal for you: stop misrepresenting the truth and indulging in exaggeration, and i'll stop correcting you on it. Deal? Would save us both a lot of time.

The government won the election comfortably.Deal with it.

Take that as a "no".

[Gillespie]

I think they should let Thaksin back. It's not as if he's done anything *really* bad, like destroying evidence and pressurising witnesses so one of his kids gets away with murdering a policeman, is it?

[rockdoc]

I think I am right in saying that "the king does not have to grant a pardon to anyone he deems unworthy of receiving one". As Thaksin clearly falls into this category then any recommendations as to this ludicrous pardon to a cowardly convict should be deposited in the garbage bin and discarded for his life-time!!!:jap:.

He should never be allowed back into the Kingdom as he is an undesirable and should be banished forever!!!

If anyone on TV thinks that I dislike Thaksin and EVERYTHING he stands for, intensely, then they are ABSOLUTELY right about this!!!

Come on Steve, don't hold back.....tell us what you really think !

[siampolee]

I think they should let Thaksin back. It's not as if he's done anything *really* bad, like destroying evidence and pressurising witnesses so one of his kids gets away with murdering a policeman, is it?

I larf, I larf, I pee iself.

[charmonman]

If he comes back a free man, mark my words, Thailand will not have free and fair elections again.

Why should Thaksin have a problem with free and fair elections since the parties he's associated with are able to win them so comfortably?

Historically, people who go to the lengths Thaksin has gone through to obtain power never seem to keep hold of it legitimately. It's not as if "being legitimate" is something this man prides himself on so far.

And to many Thais the man is utterly unacceptable.

"And to many Thais the man is utterly unacceptable".

INCLUDING many red shirted people I hasten to add!!!!!:jap:

Like who? The whole Red Shirt movement is dedicated to Thaksin. Unless you can provide some specifics I can only regard your statement as completely delusional.

[phanangpete]

Ah common, let him come back, then let the show begin, firstly i think, what happened on the streets before, would look like 'kinder garden' . secondly it would be completely out of control, a situation that would make TAT officials what to immigrate.

Do any of them consider the rule, action/ consequence, it dosen't look like it.

Enough said im going for a beer and watch the rugby !

[JRinger]

Incredible how politicians here twist the interpretation of the law to their own dodgy logic to support the 'innocence' of someone so obviously dodgy. This is the old way in Thailand and they overlook the fact that a burgeoning educated middle class will not have the wool pulled over their eyes any longer, in the same way the poor will no longer let themselves be ignored.

Let the courts decide, and that is, a court not stacked with friends of the accused.

The thing about Chalerm and Thaksin is they have doctorates in Law and Criminology, yet us mere graduates can see that their PhDs are more about how to skirt the law than apply it in the spirit of justice.

It might surprise you that Thaksin's Phd is "honorary" (Texas University) and not earned the traditional way. Don't know about Chalerm, can only assume.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Like who? The whole Red Shirt movement is dedicated to Thaksin. Unless you can provide some specifics I can only regard your statement as completely delusional.

Why do you think that Yingluck changed her tune and tactics about a week before the election on precisely this aspect??? The Democrats who admitted being behind in the polls seized on the red-shirts boasting about how Thaksin would be accepted back into Thailand if they won the election with everything else seemingly incidental. This apparently went down like a lead balloon with normal people who were'nt interested in this and wanted to vote for someone who (misguidedly IMHO) would improve their abject lives by bringing in legislation to help their plight.

Pheu Thai spotted what was happening and how their fanatical support was cooling a little on the premis that Thaksin's return was the "real deal" behind their objectives for being elected. She responded to this disturbing situation by telling them repeatedly that Thaksin's amnesty was way down her order of priorities (turned out to be a blatant lie unsurprisingly, as to be expected from this dishonourable and deceiving ratbag, incidentally) simply to bring her supporters back into line!!!! That's how I know that a sizeable majority of voters were against Thaksin's return - if you don't believe me then check it out for yourself!!!

Does this answer your question????:jap:

[Ricardo]

Like who? The whole Red Shirt movement is dedicated to Thaksin. Unless you can provide some specifics I can only regard your statement as completely delusional.

Well Khun Thida for one, she has been acting-leader of the UDD for perhaps a year-or-so, has stated that she isn't herself a Thaksin-supporter, which perhaps explains why she gets relatively-little support from within the movement, and wasn't nominated as a PTP party-list MP.

[scorecard]

Incredible how politicians here twist the interpretation of the law to their own dodgy logic to support the 'innocence' of someone so obviously dodgy. This is the old way in Thailand and they overlook the fact that a burgeoning educated middle class will not have the wool pulled over their eyes any longer, in the same way the poor will no longer let themselves be ignored.

Let the courts decide, and that is, a court not stacked with friends of the accused.

The thing about Chalerm and Thaksin is they have doctorates in Law and Criminology, yet us mere graduates can see that their PhDs are more about how to skirt the law than apply it in the spirit of justice.

It might surprise you that Thaksin's Phd is "honorary" (Texas University) and not earned the traditional way. Don't know about Chalerm, can only assume.

C

Chalerm's Ph.D. is from Ramkamhaeng

[animatic]

Essentially Populism is MUCH more popular than Thaksin,

except in his own mind.

But there are also red factions so far, far left that a capitalist like Thaksin is anathema. But they will use his money to further their aims, before removing his power and giving it to the average Somchai to administer for all the other Somchais. Never realizing they don't stand a chance.

Edited September 10, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Incredible how politicians here twist the interpretation of the law to their own dodgy logic to support the 'innocence' of someone so obviously dodgy. This is the old way in Thailand and they overlook the fact that a burgeoning educated middle class will not have the wool pulled over their eyes any longer, in the same way the poor will no longer let themselves be ignored.

Let the courts decide, and that is, a court not stacked with friends of the accused.

The thing about Chalerm and Thaksin is they have doctorates in Law and Criminology, yet us mere graduates can see that their PhDs are more about how to skirt the law than apply it in the spirit of justice.

It might surprise you that Thaksin's Phd is "honorary" (Texas University) and not earned the traditional way. Don't know about Chalerm, can only assume.

C

Chalerm's Ph.D. is from Ramkamhaeng

So equivalent to a pre-dissertation BA in a USA Uni.

[scorecard]

Like who? The whole Red Shirt movement is dedicated to Thaksin. Unless you can provide some specifics I can only regard your statement as completely delusional.

Why do you think that Yingluck changed her tune and tactics about a week before the election on precisely this aspect??? The Democrats who admitted being behind in the polls seized on the red-shirts boasting about how Thaksin would be accepted back into Thailand if they won the election with everything else seemingly incidental. This apparently went down like a lead balloon with normal people who were'nt interested in this and wanted to vote for someone who (misguidedly IMHO) would improve their abject lives by bringing in legislation to help their plight.

Pheu Thai spotted what was happening and how their fanatical support was cooling a little on the premis that Thaksin's return was the "real deal" behind their objectives for being elected. She responded to this disturbing situation by telling them repeatedly that Thaksin's amnesty was way down her order of priorities (turned out to be a blatant lie unsurprisingly, as to be expected from this dishonourable and deceiving ratbag, incidentally) simply to bring her supporters back into line!!!! That's how I know that a sizeable majority of voters were against Thaksin's return - if you don't believe me then check it out for yourself!!!

Does this answer your question????:jap:

"help their plight" is worth a comment. It's well established that a very large percentage of Thais decide what party to vote for on promises of pork and egg prices etc.

My adult Thai son got into a discussion about 'who you gunna vote for' with his neighbors, a couple of weeks before the election. Neighbors, both husband and wife, are doctors of medicine, both middle aged, both have never been outside of Thailand, both speak zero English. They both answered quickly 'pt' because they promise to keep pork and food prices down.

And look now at the forecasted 25% or more rise in the price of rice.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Incredible how politicians here twist the interpretation of the law to their own dodgy logic to support the 'innocence' of someone so obviously dodgy. This is the old way in Thailand and they overlook the fact that a burgeoning educated middle class will not have the wool pulled over their eyes any longer, in the same way the poor will no longer let themselves be ignored.

Let the courts decide, and that is, a court not stacked with friends of the accused.

The thing about Chalerm and Thaksin is they have doctorates in Law and Criminology, yet us mere graduates can see that their PhDs are more about how to skirt the law than apply it in the spirit of justice.

It might surprise you that Thaksin's Phd is "honorary" (Texas University) and not earned the traditional way. Don't know about Chalerm, can only assume.

C

Chalerm's Ph.D. is from Ramkamhaeng

What a joke Thaksin's Phd is: Subject - CRIMINOLOGY!!!! Ha Ha Ha!!!

Here is a little piece on Chalerm and his son's ill-gotten background's just to illustrate what sort of a character he is.

"Chalerm's three sons acquired a public reputation for violence and troublemaking for their repeated involvement in altercations in Bangkok's massage parlors and pubs. The phrase "Do you know whose son I am?" became associated with the three as a mark of derision for their abuse of their father's political influence. They were involved in multiple lawsuits, which were usually settled out of court".

"The most infamous of these cases was the 2001 murder of Pol. Sen. Sgt. Maj. Suwichai Rodwimuti in a pub on Ratchadaphisek Road. Chalerm's youngest son, Duangchalerm, fled the scene and eventually surrendered himself to authorities more than six months after the killing. Chalerm, fiercely protective of his son, threatened the press reporting on the case, resulting in a temporary press boycott of Chalerm. Following this incident Chalerm and his sons published a short-lived magazine criticizing the press for alleged unfair treatment".

He actually started in politics as a Democrat MP by the way and has been in more parties than "you have had hot dinners". He either dissolved each of his fledgling parties himself or had them dissolved by the courts for election irregularities.

For your amusement - one more revealing item on him - can see the similarities here with a certain fugitive!!!!!

"He was accused of press interference and had ongoing conflicts with the military, to the point that he was cited by the coup-makers as one of the reasons for the 1991 military coup d'état. In the wake of the coup Chalerm was among the politicians accused of "unusual wealth", and had 32 million baht in assets seized. He fled Thailand to live in Sweden and Denmark until the political situation cooled down".

What a worthy and honest person to be Deputy prime minister, don't you think!!!!

I couldn't resist just one more little gem!!! The universities vision of it's students includes the following "vision"

<LI>Ramkhamhaeng University concentrates on developing graduates who have both professional knowledge and high ethical standards.

Edited September 10, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[SICHONSTEVE]

Whe3re's everyone gone??? Is there a rugger game on Star Sports by any chance???

[Buchholz]

Incredible how politicians here twist the interpretation of the law to their own dodgy logic to support the 'innocence' of someone so obviously dodgy. This is the old way in Thailand and they overlook the fact that a burgeoning educated middle class will not have the wool pulled over their eyes any longer, in the same way the poor will no longer let themselves be ignored.

Let the courts decide, and that is, a court not stacked with friends of the accused.

The thing about Chalerm and Thaksin is they have doctorates in Law and Criminology, yet us mere graduates can see that their PhDs are more about how to skirt the law than apply it in the spirit of justice.

It might surprise you that Thaksin's Phd is "honorary" (Texas University) and not earned the traditional way. Don't know about Chalerm, can only assume.

Chalerm's Ph.D. is from Ramkamhaeng

Graduation Day. Chalerm, along with his sons Artharn (far left), Duangchalerm (2nd left), and Wanchalerm (far right).

The title page of his PhD dissertation.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Buchholz

[Pi Sek]

Chalerm has an LLD, not a PhD, I think - earned in the way it should have been from Ramkhamhaeng University, which is a pretty reasonable one. I would rate it above some English universities (especially since there aren't any polytechnics anymore).

Thaksin's honorary PhD from University of Texas is not really worth much in my opinion... but it's still a PhD. Very few PhD holders I know actually refer to themselves as "Dr." though (they have every right to, of course), although I'm sure that the percentage of honorary PhD holders calling themselves "Dr." is higher.

[jayboy]

Chalerm has an LLD, not a PhD, I think - earned in the way it should have been from Ramkhamhaeng University, which is a pretty reasonable one.

Is it reasonable though? A friend once told me, rather unkindly I thought, it was a university for reformed bar girls.

[ratcatcher]

Chalerm has an LLD, not a PhD, I think - earned in the way it should have been from Ramkhamhaeng University, which is a pretty reasonable one.

Is it reasonable though? A friend once told me, rather unkindly I thought, it was a university for reformed bar girls.

I guess Chalerm wasn't called to the bar though. However since you mentioned reformed bar girls, (some might say, ex prostitutes) then he was in good company, since most politicians, in my opinion, are worse than prostitutes.

People go to prostitutes to get screwed, usually for pleasure; politicians, on the other hand, just screw the people.

[charmonman]

Like who? The whole Red Shirt movement is dedicated to Thaksin. Unless you can provide some specifics I can only regard your statement as completely delusional.

Why do you think that Yingluck changed her tune and tactics about a week before the election on precisely this aspect??? The Democrats who admitted being behind in the polls seized on the red-shirts boasting about how Thaksin would be accepted back into Thailand if they won the election with everything else seemingly incidental. This apparently went down like a lead balloon with normal people who were'nt interested in this and wanted to vote for someone who (misguidedly IMHO) would improve their abject lives by bringing in legislation to help their plight.

Pheu Thai spotted what was happening and how their fanatical support was cooling a little on the premis that Thaksin's return was the "real deal" behind their objectives for being elected. She responded to this disturbing situation by telling them repeatedly that Thaksin's amnesty was way down her order of priorities (turned out to be a blatant lie unsurprisingly, as to be expected from this dishonourable and deceiving ratbag, incidentally) simply to bring her supporters back into line!!!! That's how I know that a sizeable majority of voters were against Thaksin's return - if you don't believe me then check it out for yourself!!!

Does this answer your question????:jap:

No, it doesn't because in your own reply you talk about the "red-shirts boasting about how Thaksin would be accepted back into Thailand". Your assertion was not about "a sizeable majority of voters" but about "many red-shirts". There were likely some people who voted PT even though they may not want the return of Thaksin (so they vote for Thaksin's sister?), and the PT may not have won if they had pushed that as their main policy goal in the campaign (I think the whole "reconciliation" theme was just code for allowing him back in), but to imply that there is any significant portion of the red-shirt movement that doesn't want the return of the dear leader seems badly mistaken.

Anyway if what you are actually saying is that a majority of THAIs don't want him back I would find that statement a bit more reasonable.:jap:

[jayboy]

Chalerm has an LLD, not a PhD, I think - earned in the way it should have been from Ramkhamhaeng University, which is a pretty reasonable one.

Is it reasonable though? A friend once told me, rather unkindly I thought, it was a university for reformed bar girls.

I guess Chalerm wasn't called to the bar though. However since you mentioned reformed bar girls, (some might say, ex prostitutes) then he was in good company, since most politicians, in my opinion, are worse than prostitutes.

People go to prostitutes to get screwed, usually for pleasure; politicians, on the other hand, just screw the people.

I agree and in fact in the context of Thailand I don't even think it's even controversial.

[charmonman]

Like who? The whole Red Shirt movement is dedicated to Thaksin. Unless you can provide some specifics I can only regard your statement as completely delusional.

Well Khun Thida for one, she has been acting-leader of the UDD for perhaps a year-or-so, has stated that she isn't herself a Thaksin-supporter, which perhaps explains why she gets relatively-little support from within the movement, and wasn't nominated as a PTP party-list MP.

My point is, and I probably overstated it a little, is that clearly a large majority of the red-shirts are Thaksin supporters, and that most of its leaders, if not all of them, are more or less his puppets. Statements I sometimes see about how the red shirt movement is no longer about Thaksin just fly in the face of any objective observation of their activities. I believe that the return of Thaksin is still a main goal of most of the red-shirt movement and that is the main reason I have no respect for them.

[kraplung]

Incredible how politicians here twist the interpretation of the law to their own dodgy logic to support the 'innocence' of someone so obviously dodgy. This is the old way in Thailand and they overlook the fact that a burgeoning educated middle class will not have the wool pulled over their eyes any longer, in the same way the poor will no longer let themselves be ignored.

Let the courts decide, and that is, a court not stacked with friends of the accused.

The thing about Chalerm and Thaksin is they have doctorates in Law and Criminology, yet us mere graduates can see that their PhDs are more about how to skirt the law than apply it in the spirit of justice.

It might surprise you that Thaksin's Phd is "honorary" (Texas University) and not earned the traditional way. Don't know about Chalerm, can only assume.

From all the evidence it would appear Chalerm's degree must be in Advanced Bullshit.

Edited September 10, 2011 by kraplung