"another Lonely Old Fool"

[Gary74]

I got this from Pattaya Mail. How touching of a story.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heart to Heart with Hillary

Dear Hillary,

I was warned by many but I didn’t listen. I said to myself “not me, it won’t happen to me”. But I was wrong and I paid a dear price for it. You see Hillary, I’m one of those thousands of lonely old fools who came to Thailand to enjoy the companionship of younger women. Few years back, I met “Noi” at a bar and I thought she was the girl of my dreams. We hit it off well and it seemed everything was fine in the beginning. I asked her to move-in to my condo and she did as long as she got her “stipend” of 10,000 baht per month. After few months she got pregnant so we decided to get married. She was 26 and I was 60. I knew the age difference would shock my family and friends and would be the laughing subject for the town back home but I didn’t care and so I married a bargirl like almost all foreigners do. Next few years went fine and everything seemed great with few bumps, mostly financial. I still had to pay her “stipend”, which seemed awkward to me but to her it was expected of me to pay her for being my wife. As my daughter approached school age, we checked out all the local international schools and I was shocked at the cost of educating a single foreign child here in Thailand, never mind two or more. The financial hardship was too much for me to pay so we decided to go back home to my home country. It was a sad day when I left Thailand and I didn’t know what to expect, but I had to try. I stayed with my son who seemed genuinely happy to see me but his wife and my sisters and their husbands were not. They didn’t say too much and put on an appearance but I knew what they were thinking. They saw a dirty old man who married a prostitute younger than their kids with a young child and deserve what was coming to me. They never said this to me but I could see it on their faces. After couple weeks I found a small apartment for my family and got a job as an accountant which was my trade before entering Thailand. As I suspected, I was the laughing subject of the neighborhood. Everybody seemed to know the whole story. When I walked with my wife and daughter, I would hear them gossiping and laughing at us. Even my wife and daughter felt the pain. What hurt the most was when my daughter was ashamed to see me in school because her friends would make fun of her for having such an old man as a father. After two years, my wife seemed angry at me for small things that seemed minor and insignificant but she would get angry over nothing. She just wanted to fight all the time and I didn’t know why until I found out after few months. She was having an affair with the local policeman her age who lived in the same apartment complex. I was hurt and angry and ready to hurt somebody but for the sake of my daughter I stayed collected over the whole incident. As I expected, she filed for a divorce with the help of her policeman boyfriend. I had to move out and consulted a lawyer. As he explained it, she would get the custody of our daughter and child support until my daughter turns 21 or until my death. This sounds funny now but it wasn’t funny then since I seriously thought about suicide. I didn’t know what to do so I took some time off and came back to Thailand to think. Currently, I barely have enough money to live on. If it wasn’t for welfare system for old people from my country, I would be on the streets.

Another Lonely Old Fool

Dear Lonely (but not an Old Fool),

Hillary can understand your pain, and I congratulate you on being so brave as to put it all down in your letter. I hope you will take the time to read my reply, just as I have taken the time with yours. First off, you have done nothing “wrong”. Marriages are always difficult relationships, and forget about the bargirl, older foreigner statistics. Were you aware that more than 50 percent of first-time marriages in the UK and America fail as well? And there’s no cultural or communication problems in those unions.

The reason for the hostility in your home country over the so-called ‘trophy bride’ situation stems purely from jealousy. Men do not often grow gracefully older with their aging partners, but lust after what they used to have – which you were still having.

I will not go into the divorce laws in your home country, but they were not designed to be equitable, but you are stuck with them. Even though it is hurtful, just remember that your daughter will always owe her initial upbringing and educational possibilities to you. Nobody else.

You are a good man. You have acted honorably. You can hold your head up high. Life may be ‘different’ these days, but your own spirit will carry you through again. Congratulations on coming though a very difficult period in your life. One day we might even share some champers and chocolates!

Edited November 5, 2005 by fatter than harry

[ProfessorFart]

5, 4, 3, 2, .........

© Mr Bojangles 2005

[britmaveric]

Som Nam Na

[Neeranam]

Pattaya should be closed or have a government health warning.

[buadhai]

Pattaya should be closed or have a government health warning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps distressing photos of "lonely old fools" posted around town similar to the pictures now displayed on cigarette packs?

[-=angel=-]

very sad... but it seems people here just took a laugh

[Doza]

The unique thing about this story is...

Can you really blame the girl? She has not taken him to the cleaners, was a good wife for a number of years, suffered the emotional abuse in his home town, and finally found love with someone closer to her age and obviously she's more attracted to.

When this guys almost 70 and she's in her prime, what did he expect?

[-=angel=-]

The unique thing about this story is...

Can you really blame the girl? She has not taken him to the cleaners, was a good wife for a number of years, suffered the emotional abuse in his home town, and finally found love with someone closer to her age and obviously she's more attracted to.

When this guys almost 70 and she's in her prime, what did he expect?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no you cannot. just that she shouldn't had gone with another man when she knows her husband is really down, emotionally and financially. not judging thou. just saying my opinion...

[Wanraya]

Som Nam Na

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does Som Nam Na mean?

[BambinA]

Som Nam Na

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does Som Nam Na mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

= serve someone right ; get (what) one deserves

[boppia]

Don't do drugs! You've heard it enough over and over and over again yet kids still take drugs.

As for this guy, He seems to be able to deal with it. He has it much better than his daughter. She will suffer as he said. She will think of where she came from. She will also have to deal with the younger policeman who was just as horny for hot chick as her poppa. Hopefully marriage number two will be a happy one. The lonely old guy should wish his old wife, his daughter, and the policeman all the best for his daughter's sake.

Finally the slightly poorer old fella should not come back to Thailand/Asia unless he gets a vasectemy!

Oh, and the Hilllary lady really seems like a nice lady (if she is one!). maybe old fella could hook up with her.

[John_Betong]

I wonder why Hillary never asked him if

"knowing what you know now, would you still have gone through with it"?

I reckon better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all... or something like that

[kurgen]

At 60 most blokes are shooting blanks, if anything at all.

Ever thought of checking DNA

[chuchok]

Som Nam Na

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does Som Nam Na mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

= serve someone right ; get (what) one deserves

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would use an almost english slang phrase to decribe.

som nam na = sucked in

[wolfman jack]

Keep in mind that most people that cheat on their husband/wife are likely to do so on their next partner also. this cop will always have in the back of his mind that she cheated on the old guy so she is capable of cheating on the cop.

[BambinA]

she cheated on the old guy so she is capable of cheating on the cop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

som nam na = sucked in 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Noel]

At 60 most blokes are shooting blanks, if anything at all.

Ever thought of checking DNA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You will never know how funny that remark really is in the context of this thread!

But as for 'blokes at 60 shooting blanks if anything at all', I know several farang who have fathered children at more than that age and others who would give any self-proclaimed young buck a run for their money in the virility department.

Judge not lest ye be judged, or whatever the quote is...

[Ladphrao]

So I read this and asked myself, on balance, who won and who lost?

The old geezer.

Pluses

He got a few years bedding down a women less than half his age. Not all bad, and he got from accounts quite a nice child out of the situation

Minuses

He faced a certain level of social rejection

He got his heart broken, while this was to be expected sooner or later, it looks in his case it came later.

The working girl

Plusses

She got out of the bar and ended up living in middle-class farangland married to someone her own age and got a daughter out of the situation.

Minuses

She had to put out for some old geezer who probably didn't really get her juices flowing for a few years.

She faced a certain level of social rejection

The daughter

Plusses

She was conceived and was born (if for nothing else everyone owes their parents a big thank you for that)

Minuses

She was embarrassed by her parents (but how many kids are not embarrassed by their parents?) and she now has to live in a broken home, (but how many people really come from a "leave it to beaver" style of family).

Ok, the story doesn't end with happily ever after, but seems to me all parties got basically what they wanted out of the situation and all parties had to pay a price to get it. The old geezer got some sex with a young wife and a chance to play like a young man well into his sixties, but paid for that by ending up alone later. Fair price?

The bargirl got a middle-class life with a husband of her own age, but had to spend a few years pretending to be romantically attracted to someone her grandfather's age, and had to go through some emotional difficulties herself. Fair price?

Frankly I don't see any winners or losers, just players of that silly game of life and love that nearly all of us play.

Edited November 5, 2005 by Ladphrao

[mpdkorat]

So I read this and asked myself, on balance, who won and who lost?

The old geezer.

Pluses

He got a few years bedding down a women less than half his age. Not all bad, and he got from accounts quite a nice child out of the situation

Minuses

He faced a certain level of social rejection

He got his heart broken, while this was to be expected sooner or later, it looks in his case it came later.

The working girl

Plusses

She got out of the bar and ended up living in middle-class farangland married to someone her own age and got a daughter out of the situation.

Minuses

She had to put out for some old geezer who probably didn't really get her juices flowing for a few years.

She faced a certain level of social rejection

The daughter

Plusses

She was conceived and was born (if for nothing else everyone owes their parents a big thank you for that)

Minuses

She was embarrassed by her parents (but how many kids are not embarrassed by their parents?) and she now has to live in a broken home, (but how many people really come from a "leave it to beaver" style of family).

Ok, the story doesn't end with happily ever after, but seems to me all parties got basically what they wanted out of the situation and all parties had to pay a price to get it. The old geezer got some sex with a young wife and a chance to play like a young man well into his sixties, but paid for that by ending up alone later. Fair price?

The bargirl got a middle-class life with a husband of her own age, but had to spend a few years pretending to be romantically attracted to someone her grandfather's age, and had to go through some emotional difficulties herself. Fair price?

Frankly I don't see any winners or losers, just players of that silly game of life and love that nearly all of us play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Said

[britmaveric]

Lad made a huge mistake - shouldn't married her nor should have been giving her 10K bht a month. There were tell tale signs this was going to shi*e but he ignored them. It's sad, but certainly not unexpected.

Edited November 5, 2005 by britmaveric

[billd766]

At 60 most blokes are shooting blanks, if anything at all.

Ever thought of checking DNA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Kurgen

I am now 61 and my Thai wife was 40 on Tuesday of this week.

Our son is 15 months old.

DNA?

It worked for me.

[Kerryd]

very sad... but it seems people here just took a laugh 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It may seem callous, but most people on this site have heard stories like this, in many versions, time after time.

Problem is, each time it happens to a guy, he seems to think he's the only one who has encountered a situation like this.

Next problem is, these kinds of problems/situations seem to happen on an almost daily basis.

Sad, but true.

[Gary74]

very sad... but it seems people here just took a laugh 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It may seem callous, but most people on this site have heard stories like this, in many versions, time after time.

Problem is, each time it happens to a guy, he seems to think he's the only one who has encountered a situation like this.

Next problem is, these kinds of problems/situations seem to happen on an almost daily basis.

Sad, but true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're definately correct about that. It mostly happens to newbies to LOS but also to some old-hands as well.

Many middle to older men who came to Thailand were asexual for years or perhaps high as 10-30 years and they go crazy when some beautiful, young and sexy girls pay any attention to them and they loose all their common senses. Things like this happens all the time but most victims are too embarrased and ashamed to talk about it and keep it to themselves since they don't want to be rediculed by other men.

But I have to commend this old-timer for exposing his pain and suffering so that others can learn from his mistakes.

[kayo]

Why do we keep getting stickman stories on here.. If I want to read a stickman story, I go to stickman website.

[RDN]

...Pattaya Mail...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Troll. Probably written by Pattaya Mail's "Hillary".

[Boon Mee]

Why do we keep getting stickman stories on here.. If I want to read a stickman story, I go to stickman website.

They all do have that certain 'commonality' to them don't they?

[John_Betong]

Lad made a huge mistake - shouldn't married her nor should have been giving her 10K bht a month. There were tell tale signs this was going to shi*e but he ignored them. It's sad, but certainly not unexpected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder if the copper gives her 10,000 baht/month pocket money?

[jef]

He should have stayed in Thailand.

Why some posters here are having a laugh goes beyond my understanding

[Simbo]

At 60 most blokes are shooting blanks, if anything at all.

Ever thought of checking DNA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Kurgen

I am now 61 and my Thai wife was 40 on Tuesday of this week.

Our son is 15 months old.

DNA?

It worked for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ONLY up till now.

[Pudgimelon]

but I didn’t care and so I married a bargirl like almost all foreigners do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't let my wife see this, she will kick your ass.

The stereotype of "farang marrying bargirls" will hopefully one day fade into the past, but for the time being, most normal couples have to put up with these kinds of b-llsh-t generalisations from Thai and farang alike.

I remember one time my wife and I were hiking in the mountains, at the end of the day, we trundled down the mountain and stopped at a little spa to get a massage (my wife couldn't get a foot massage at the time, because she was pregnant and it's bad for the baby). The lady who ran the shop kept quizzing my wife with questions that in any normal context would have been patently offensive: "Did you meet him on the internet or a bar?", "Is the baby his?", etc.... Back home, nobody would even give us a second look, we'd just be another normal couple, but here in Thailand we just kind of have to develop a thick skin and put up with subtle (or overt) stereotyping based on the legacy of the sex tourism industry in this country.

Annoying, but hopefully as more and more normal couples integrate themselves into Thai society and culture, the stereotype will fade and perhaps my children or grandchildren won't have to put up with this kind of crap.

But in the mean time, here's a news flash for you Pattaya guys, you're dinosaurs, and hopefully your way of life will be extinct in this country very soon. The writing is already on the wall, it says "You're not welcome here anymore", please read it and go slink off to Cambodia or some other third-world craphole.

These days there are thousands of regular guys who come to Thailand for the same reasons they might move to any city in their home country: economic opportunity, improved standard of living, and a nicer climate. Shacking up with the nearest bargirl doesn't enter our minds any more than it would back home. We're members of the community here and our reputations HERE matter to us just as much as they would back home.

My wife has a comes from a good family, has college degree, and recently got put on the board of directors for a major construction company here in Thailand. For her sake, I get a bit defensive when someone starts throwing around "farang marry bargirls" stereotypes. It's offensive to all the hard-working, decent, and moral Thai women in this country and it's about time we put a stop to it.

If you've married a bargirl, fine, that's your life choice, but don't paint all Thai women (and all farang who move to Thailand) with the same broad brush. Your experience is not universally true.

I stayed with my son who seemed genuinely happy to see me but his wife and my sisters and their husbands were not. They didn’t say too much and put on an appearance but I knew what they were thinking. They saw a dirty old man who married a prostitute younger than their kids with a young child and deserve what was coming to me. They never said this to me but I could see it on their faces.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this really surprising?

I find it hard to believe that people are so clueless that they think they can come to Thailand, abandon all the social mores of their home country, and then when the sh-t hits the fan, they think they can return home without facing the social consequences of their actions?? Are people really that dumb?

If this guy had shacked up with a stripper back home who was young enough to be his GRANDDAUGHTER, what kind of reaction would he expect from his family and neighbors? Did he expect people to pat him on the back and say, "Good show, ol' boy! She got any younger sisters?"

The world is getting smaller every day. Pretty soon people are going to wake up and realize that they can't slink off to the ass-end of the Earth and secretly "commit sins" without consequence. Either the community they live in or the community back home is going to find out, and they are going to find themselves marginalized and ostracized. Is this fair? That's not relevant, because its just the way things are, fair or not, that's life.

Were you aware that more than 50 percent of first-time marriages in the UK and America fail as well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ever read the book, "How to Lie with Statistics?" It says that statistics can be twisted or slanted in so many ways that it's entirely possible to "prove" exactly opposite points of view using the same set of raw data! And here's a perfect example.

Let's say you have six people. Five of them get married to other people and stay married forever. But the sixth person gets married and re-married five times.

That's 10 marriages, but five of those marriages ended in divorce, so "statistically speaking" 50% of marriages end in divorce. What isn't pointed out is that those people who are habitual failures at marriage skew the statistics for the whole group. Out of that hypothetical group of six people, only 16% got a divorce. It seems like there's this huge divorce rate, when actually it's the same person marrying and remarrying over and over again.

Likewise, people on the East and West coasts of the United States may live in a "divorce culture", but for MOST Americans, that's just simply not true. Most Americans get married and stay married, in spite of what Hollywood and New York based media outlets try to convince us otherwise.

Antecdotally speaking, for example in my family, I've got over 20 aunts and uncles, more than 40 cousins, and probably at least a hundred or so second cousins (I've got thirteen nieces and nephews so far and not all my brothers and sisters are married yet). Out of that sample group of nearly two hundred people, there's been exactly three divorces.

And my family is not unusual. Most of the families in my town are similar. Divorce is such a rarity that it usually sends big shockwaves through the community when it happens.

Another factor to consider is that divorce may be more common recently, but there are nearly four generations worth of marriages still hanging around out there. PLENTY of people in their 60's, 70's and 80's are still married to the same person they first got hitched to. And I'd bet that the same holds true of most people in their 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's. So while the media outlets might make a great big bally-hoo about "50% of new marriages ending in divorce", you have to remember to be a free-thinking adult and take that "fact" with a grain of salt.

There are hundreds of millions of married couples in the West, and it beggars belief that 50% of them are on their second or third marriage. That's just baloney. Don't believe the hype.

Long, stable marriages are the NORM, both here and in the West. So next time you hear someone batting about "statistical facts" as if they really were facts, try to remember that statistics is less a mathematical science and more of an art of b-llsh-tting more convincingly than the other guy.

Even though it is hurtful, just remember that your daughter will always owe her initial upbringing and educational possibilities to you. Nobody else.You are a good man. You have acted honorably. You can hold your head up high. Life may be ‘different’ these days, but your own spirit will carry you through again. Congratulations on coming though a very difficult period in your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What kind of horsesh-t advice is this? "Dear Hillary" should get his/her head examined.

"You're a good man? You acted honorably?" &lt;deleted&gt;?

OK, I give the guy points for owning up when the bun was already in the oven, but did it ever occur to him that shacking up with a prostitute who's 1/3rd his age might not be a "smart move" in the first place?

I guess some people think it's possible to "act irresponsbily" but still "act honorably" at the same time. But I don't.

Someone should have smacked this guy a long time ago and said, "Act your age!"

Because at his age, there's just no excuse for a poor judgment call like that. His family was right to shun him, because at SIXTY years of age, he's still acting like a teenager. Not only does he knock a girl up when he's not even financially sound enough to educate a single offspring, but then he tucks his tail between his legs and goes back home to plop the consequences of his stupidity on his family's doorstep.

While he's wallowing in egotistical self-pity, did he ever stop to think about the impact his actions might have on his family? How is his son supposed to explain a new "grandma" to the kids who is younger than their father? How does he explain to his grandkids how he met "grandma" or what she did for a living?

Geesh.... "Dear Hillary" should have given this guy a two-word reply: "GROW UP!"

Sixty year old men shouldn't be cavorting around go-go bars wetting their dicks in girls younger than their grandchildren, while at the same time living paycheck to paycheck with no retirement savings.

Is it any surprise that life snuck up and bit this guy in the ass?? Why on earth did he think that it wouldn't???

What--in his entire lifetime of experience--gave him the idea that he could fart around like a kid and not have to deal with the inevitable consequences??

*shakes head*

This guy better hope that his "spirit will carry him through", because his common sense and better judgment certainly aren't doing the job.

Perhaps some will think I'm a bit prudish or unsympathetic to this man's hardships, but personally I think that this guy has displayed a callous disregard for his family and his daughter. He deserves a smack in the head more than he deserves pity.

Think about that poor girl, not only is her father probably going to die of old age before she graduates from college (or even high school), but he also saddled her with an adulterous former prostitute for a mother (how's that for a role-model?).

And it's not as if mixed-culture offspring have it hard enough, but that poor girl has to deal with the social stigmas of having a "former bargirl" for a mom AND also deal with all the trauma of a divorce (which is especially hard on girls).

Every reasonably responsible guy over the age of twenty knows that you shouldn't put your dick in the "happy place" unless you're willing AND ABLE to deal with the consequences. So while this guy was self-centeredly "escaping to Thailand to appeasing his lonely heart by screwing young girls", he was also sentencing the offspring of his selfish actions to a lifetime of social stigmatization and personal turmoil.

In my book, that deserves contempt, not pity.

He "did the honorable thing"? Hardly. The honorable thing would have been to go get a vasectemy before he started whoring it up like a stupid old fool.

Edited November 6, 2005 by Pudgimelon