Wagyu Beef

[bonobo]

anyway is beef the best meat in the world the only meat i have had which comes within a mile is salt marsh lamb,so for me beef is best. over to you shopboy.

Is salt marsh lamb really that good? I saw it on a menu in France one time, under the French name, of course, (which I don't recall, also of course), but I didn't take the opportunity to order it.

[ShopBoy]

Can you guys really differentiate what kind of beef is it on the dinner plate as long it taste good ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've had Kobe beef imported from Japan...and several varieties of other Wagyu beef... all back in the U.S.

It's very delicious and distinctive... and doesn't taste or feel in your mouth like any beef steak normally available in U.S. supermarkets... And every time I've eaten it, it's been cooked absolutely plain, usually over a charcoal grill... no sauces, no seasonings maybe other than a bit of salt... usually thinly sliced.

That said, could I tell the difference between Japanese wagyu and mixed Wagyu raised in the U.S., that I'm not sure...

[jamora]

One of my friends have a restaurant, and he orders Australian Waguy for me. He charges me 700 THB pr. kg. for grade 5 to around 3000 THB for grade 1. It is not 100% Waguy, but something like 95%, but the quality is still much better than standard Aussie beef from Tops or Villa! And I have to buy a whole filet, which is around 5 kg, and then cut and freeze it myself.

700 baht for Wagyu??? Sorry but that's not Wagyu for that price. For that price you'll be getting Aussie grass fed beef (at cost price). The Aussie Wagyu starts at about 2,500 - 3,000 baht a kilo for 4/5 score beef when buying at cost.

What do you mean grade 1 to 5??? Beef grades 1-5 is about yield not about quality and only really important when buying very large pieces. Wagyu is graded by marbleing, and goes up to 12 (with 12 being the best). The lowest I've seen is usually about score 4 and would be about 2,500 at cost. A whole fillet of grade 10 Aussie Wagyu is about 25,000 baht.

But as you say, Aussie Wagyu isn't 100% Wagyu, I think all the Aussie Wagyu is cross bred (like the US Wagyu) so it can survive in the Aussie climate, but Wagyu just means 'Japanese Cow' and there are a few different breeds, some better than others.

Your friend is getting you a good deal and if you like the beef then great (the Aussie grass fed is nice), but it's not Wagyu.

Well, that's how he/their restaurant grades it, and I don't know what the real price is. He does not care about money, but he quoted us a price one night, and that's what he charges friends. I'm sure he rather loose money and stick to the price he told me than quoting a new price and admitting he was wrong! And trust me, it's real Waguy, and it's dam_n cheap! Just as well as he can get wine/booze cheaper than duty free Bkk, delivered at my address! I don't ask questions, I just receive!

Well you have a very generous friend, he'll be paying 2,500 - 3,000 if its Wagyu.

This thread made me wonder how much Aussie Wagyu is at cost price in Aus, so just mentioned it to a chef friend in Sydney and he says it cost him about 75 AUD a kilo for score 4. So it's 2,500 baht before you pay for it's plane ticket over here.

Well, he is very generous! But I still doubt that your prices are for crossbreed Wagyu! According to press statements from ASDA, Scottish Wagyu-Holstein strip lion will retail for about $40/kg in Wal Mart. I know Aussie beef have become slightly more expensive, but 2-3 times more expensive than what they can do in UK?

[jamora]

One of my friends have a restaurant, and he orders Australian Waguy for me. He charges me 700 THB pr. kg. for grade 5 to around 3000 THB for grade 1. It is not 100% Waguy, but something like 95%, but the quality is still much better than standard Aussie beef from Tops or Villa! And I have to buy a whole filet, which is around 5 kg, and then cut and freeze it myself.

700 baht for Wagyu??? Sorry but that's not Wagyu for that price. For that price you'll be getting Aussie grass fed beef (at cost price). The Aussie Wagyu starts at about 2,500 - 3,000 baht a kilo for 4/5 score beef when buying at cost.

What do you mean grade 1 to 5??? Beef grades 1-5 is about yield not about quality and only really important when buying very large pieces. Wagyu is graded by marbleing, and goes up to 12 (with 12 being the best). The lowest I've seen is usually about score 4 and would be about 2,500 at cost. A whole fillet of grade 10 Aussie Wagyu is about 25,000 baht.

But as you say, Aussie Wagyu isn't 100% Wagyu, I think all the Aussie Wagyu is cross bred (like the US Wagyu) so it can survive in the Aussie climate, but Wagyu just means 'Japanese Cow' and there are a few different breeds, some better than others.

Your friend is getting you a good deal and if you like the beef then great (the Aussie grass fed is nice), but it's not Wagyu.

Perfect reply!!

Jagota in Bangkok is the main importer for Wagyu beef.

They get their meat from the best Aussie farm "Security".

Real Wagyu marbeling starts with 5 and gets up to 12.

Gerd

Again, we are not talking pure breed (thought it was clear from the original post?), and they import it directly for their business, and the grading is how they do it. If you have several restaurants, and you have 5 available qualities, why not grade them 1-5? It makes it easier for everyone!

[mulryan]

I've had Kobe beef imported from Japan...and several varieties of other Wagyu beef... all back in the U.S.

It's very delicious and distinctive... and doesn't taste or feel in your mouth like any beef steak normally available in U.S. supermarkets... And every time I've eaten it, it's been cooked absolutely plain, usually over a charcoal grill... no sauces, no seasonings maybe other than a bit of salt... usually thinly sliced.

That said, could I tell the difference between Japanese wagyu and mixed Wagyu raised in the U.S., that I'm not sure...

Yes. You can tell the difference. The primary reason Australia has taken over that "farmed out" market is Japan withdrew America's license due to the fact that they cross breed the japanese cow with Angus beef, thus altering the original product. The cross breeds are great, but not the original...

Edited September 16, 2011 by mulryan

[ShopBoy]

Real certified Kobe beef are not allowed to be exported from Japan. Is this real ?

[jamora]

Real certified Kobe beef are not allowed to be exported from Japan. Is this real ?

They normally have it at paragon if I'm not mistaken. The price is something like 2,000 THB/100 g. They also have Matsuzaka, which is price even higher than kobe. But several times over the past few years, the Japanese government have made self imposed export bans of all Japanese beef, due to local cases of foot-and-mouth disease.

[meatboy]

anyway is beef the best meat in the world the only meat i have had which comes within a mile is salt marsh lamb,so for me beef is best. over to you shopboy.

Is salt marsh lamb really that good? I saw it on a menu in France one time, under the French name, of course, (which I don't recall, also of course), but I didn't take the opportunity to order it.

salt marsh lamb has a nice sweet taste,the lambs roam the marsh land arround the gower [swansea] and there is not much diff.in price to lambs fed on farm land [brecon beacons] if i remember a whole welsh lamb cost about £1.60lb or 77bht.a good lamb would be no more than 16kilos.the french import a lot of lamb from wales.

[meatboy]

Can you guys really differentiate what kind of beef is it on the dinner plate as long it taste good ?

steak is my favourite sirloin or rib eye,fillet is not my cup of tea theres no fat on it and useually comes coved in sauce yuk,slightly seasoned that does it for me with a good bottle of rioja [y-guy] i would love to try wagyu but my pensions dont allow me to.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Real certified Kobe beef are not allowed to be exported from Japan. Is this real ?

They normally have it at paragon if I'm not mistaken. The price is something like 2,000 THB/100 g. They also have Matsuzaka, which is price even higher than kobe. But several times over the past few years, the Japanese government have made self imposed export bans of all Japanese beef, due to local cases of foot-and-mouth disease.

There also was a time some years back when the U.S. banned importation of Japanese beef due to the mad cow disease outbreak... But that later was lifted.. And AFAIK, Kobe and other similar Japanese beef now can be imported into the U.S. without any problem.

BTW, I was reading a bit on this last night, and supposedly, one of the reasons American beef producers opted for crossbreeding the Wagyu beef with American Angus beef is American's preference for larger sized steaks -- as opposed to thin sliced small portions, as is the custom with Kobe beef...

If they had gone with straight Kobe beef, trying eat a 16 oz. steak of straight Kobe beef might be a bit on the overwhelming side....due to the richness...if not the price... But by going with the mixed breed, which is not so rich, they figured they could market traditional American type steaks.

Edited September 17, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jamora]

Real certified Kobe beef are not allowed to be exported from Japan. Is this real ?

They normally have it at paragon if I'm not mistaken. The price is something like 2,000 THB/100 g. They also have Matsuzaka, which is price even higher than kobe. But several times over the past few years, the Japanese government have made self imposed export bans of all Japanese beef, due to local cases of foot-and-mouth disease.

There also was a time some years back when the U.S. banned importation of Japanese beef due to the mad cow disease outbreak... But that later was lifted.. And AFAIK, Kobe and other similar Japanese beef now can be imported into the U.S. without any problem.

BTW, I was reading a bit on this last night, and supposedly, one of the reasons American beef producers opted for crossbreeding the Wagyu beef with American Angus beef is American's preference for larger sized steaks -- as opposed to thin sliced small portions, as is the custom with Kobe beef...

If they had gone with straight Kobe beef, trying eat a 16 oz. steak of straight Kobe beef might be a bit on the overwhelming side....due to the richness...if not the price... But by going with the mixed breed, which is not so rich, they figured they could market traditional American type steaks.

It would make sence. The first time I tried Kobe, we bought it in 300g steaks, and to be honest, the first few bites were good, but at the end it felt a bit like eating butter! It had very little bite, and felt a bit greasy. Have later tried it the Japanese way, and found it much more enjoyable.

But for big steaks I would prefer crossbreed any time. I like to chew my steak!

[bonobo]

Can you guys really differentiate what kind of beef is it on the dinner plate as long it taste good ?

steak is my favourite sirloin or rib eye,fillet is not my cup of tea theres no fat on it and useually comes coved in sauce yuk,slightly seasoned that does it for me with a good bottle of rioja [y-guy] i would love to try wagyu but my pensions dont allow me to.

+1

I like strip (what Europeans call sirloin) the best, then ribeye. Filet is the least beefy-tasting steak, in my opinion.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It would make sence. The first time I tried Kobe, we bought it in 300g steaks, and to be honest, the first few bites were good, but at the end it felt a bit like eating butter! It had very little bite, and felt a bit greasy. Have later tried it the Japanese way, and found it much more enjoyable.

But for big steaks I would prefer crossbreed any time. I like to chew my steak!

That's exactly what I was reading said... too much buttery/fatty taste in the mouth when served in large, traditional steak size portions.... But when served in small portions thinly sliced, an entirely different matter...

The stuff I was reading also said the Angus crossbreed had a stronger flavor, compared to milder for straight Kobe.

[bonobo]

It would make sence. The first time I tried Kobe, we bought it in 300g steaks, and to be honest, the first few bites were good, but at the end it felt a bit like eating butter! It had very little bite, and felt a bit greasy. Have later tried it the Japanese way, and found it much more enjoyable.

But for big steaks I would prefer crossbreed any time. I like to chew my steak!

That's exactly what I was reading said... too much buttery/fatty taste in the mouth when served in large, traditional steak size portions.... But when served in small portions thinly sliced, an entirely different matter...

The stuff I was reading also said the Angus crossbreed had a stronger flavor, compared to milder for straight Kobe.

The buffet at the Grand Hyatt had an Australian wagyu festival in Feb 2010. This was my first chance to sample wagyu/kobe/Matsusaka-type beef in other than the Japanese style or in a burger. There was some sort of bourguignon, a corned beef, prime rib, a grilled steak, and two other types which slip my mind now. As I posted earlier, the corned beef was simply the best i have ever had in my life. The bourguignon was good, but unremarkable. The steaks were OK, and the prime rib was outstanding. So while the corning process might cut the heavy fat content, at least the prime rib was the basic beef itself, and I loved it. (Loved the corned beef more, though.)

[ShopBoy]

@bonobo can you remember how much they charge per head ?

[meatboy]

cant believe we have been discussing beef and nobody has mentioned one of my favourite dishes,calves liver on a bed of spring onion mash very exspensive but oohhhhh.i also love ox liver but i havent seen any over here.i wonder what the liver tastes like from wagyu? anybody tried some.last time i had calves liver in uk.about 1500bht kilo wholesale.

[bonobo]

@bonobo can you remember how much they charge per head ?

Yes, it was 1600 baht. If you are interested, try again in Feb which is the month they have laid out for the Australian Wagyu Festival. It usually goes from Feb 15 until the end of the month.

[ShopBoy]

@bonobo thanks will keep a lookout

[thaiIand]

There's 1 restaurant in phuket who provides thai wagyu. Extremely marbled and decent taste.. a little bit cheaper. No more info

since you guys are fans of beef you might want to have a little laugh

Edited October 3, 2011 by thaiIand