Sacred Heart Nazi Sports Academy

[mallmagician]

As suspected Loaded, you have no idea of the meaning of the word satire.

Thanks for confirmation...

Did you see the two videos I posted?

Yes. Those were satirical, but you seem to be lumping the sacred heart event in the same category.

Then you claimed you were being satirical yourself- you werent... Hence my post.

All clear?

You haven't explained why Thais were goosestepping dressed as nazis because I think you don't know. However, you have decided you were offended. I'm not.

Also, I wasn't offended. Shocked, yes. A little gobsmacked that even though they were told how inappropriate it would be, they continued, yes.

I am sure it wasn't malicious, but when the teachers were told it was wrong, action should have been taken. That was the point of my op. I not once claimed I personally was offended. I just think it's an interesting event that speaks volumes on a number of levels.

[mallmagician]

Now if we all dress as Thai kids dressed as nazis and a few acted like dumb teachers, and filmed it, then..... That is satire...

That would be scary

Agreed!

[kerryk]

As suspected Loaded, you have no idea of the meaning of the word satire.

Thanks for confirmation...

Did you see the two videos I posted?

Yes. Those were satirical, but you seem to be lumping the sacred heart event in the same category.

Then you claimed you were being satirical yourself- you werent... Hence my post.

All clear?

You haven't explained why Thais were goosestepping dressed as nazis because I think you don't know. However, you have decided you were offended. I'm not.

Not only offensive but I believe in Germany and some other countries against the law. My God man where do you come from not to be offended? Are you Thai?

[Loaded]

Not only offensive but I believe in Germany and some other countries against the law. My God man where do you come from not to be offended? Are you Thai?

You are obviously offended. Did the Freddy Starr and Mel Brooks videos offend you as well?

PS

Your cheap shot at Thais is offensive to me.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Loaded

[kerryk]

Not only offensive but I believe in Germany and some other countries against the law. My God man where do you come from not to be offended? Are you Thai?

You are obviously offended. Did the Freddy Starr and Mel Brooks videos offend you as well?

PS

Your cheap shot at Thais is offensive to me.

It is not a cheap shot. I can understand the Thais not being offended. One they were on the same side, their allies the Japanese did many bad things that the Thais were aware of and did nothing about and thirdly they don't study history for obvious reasons.

[Loaded]

Not only offensive but I believe in Germany and some other countries against the law. My God man where do you come from not to be offended? Are you Thai?

You are obviously offended. Did the Freddy Starr and Mel Brooks videos offend you as well?

PS

Your cheap shot at Thais is offensive to me.

It is not a cheap shot. I can understand the Thais not being offended. One they were on the same side, their allies the Japanese did many bad things that the Thais were aware of and did nothing about and thirdly they don't study history for obvious reasons.

Wow! You really do think it was a rally by nazi sympathizers.

[kerryk]

Not only offensive but I believe in Germany and some other countries against the law. My God man where do you come from not to be offended? Are you Thai?

You are obviously offended. Did the Freddy Starr and Mel Brooks videos offend you as well?

PS

Your cheap shot at Thais is offensive to me.

It is not a cheap shot. I can understand the Thais not being offended. One they were on the same side, their allies the Japanese did many bad things that the Thais were aware of and did nothing about and thirdly they don't study history for obvious reasons.

Wow! You really do think it was a rally by nazi sympathizers.

Ya. No offence. I also believe in free speech. Some things offend me even though I think people should be allowed to say them. Sticks and stones you know.

[elephantkungfu]

You could argue that Chairman Mao was responsible for more deaths than Hitler. Have you ever seen backpackers wearing that 'DJ Mao' t-shirt you can buy from the night bazaar? In Beijing, you can see western tourists buying Chairman Mao souvenirs... like the little red book. David Baddiel (an English 'comedian') called his cat 'Chairman Meaow'.

If people aren't directly affected by such atrocities, then they won't care that much. simple as that. I wouldn't call this 'ignorance'. The Thais know who the Nazis were. They know who Hitler was. It's just 'indifference'. And that is certainly not specific to Thailand.

[venturalaw]

Question most expats on some basic stuff regarding Thai history and you'll receive blank stares. However, these same expats expect Thais to be aware of nazi atrocities 70 years ago in Germany during the second world war.

This was not a pop-quiz visited upon innocent Thai citizenry. The organizers are educators. Therefore does it not make sense that they would have to know if they are organizing a march by children dressed in quite authentic appearing Nazi uniforms? Think about it.

Edited September 24, 2011 by venturalaw

[Beetlejuice]

Not only offensive but I believe in Germany and some other countries against the law. My God man where do you come from not to be offended? Are you Thai?

You are obviously offended. Did the Freddy Starr and Mel Brooks videos offend you as well?

PS

Your cheap shot at Thais is offensive to me.

It is not a cheap shot. I can understand the Thais not being offended. One they were on the same side, their allies the Japanese did many bad things that the Thais were aware of and did nothing about and thirdly they don't study history for obvious reasons.

Wow! You really do think it was a rally by nazi sympathizers.

No, but they treated this subject with indifference and that`s a lot worse.

My first Thai wife and I when we lived in the States were looking at houses to buy.

On one visit to a house she noticed that the owner was using a Thai buddha ornament as a door stop.

My wife was deeply offended and said to me that she wouldn`t live in that house if they were giving it away.

Amazing isn`t it, how quick the Thais lose their sense of humour when the insult is pointing in their direction.

But as one poster has already mentioned, there are no photos, videos or any official reports to confirm this has happened, so this maybe a lot of ado about nothing.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[rakchaingmai]

Amazing isn`t it, how quick the Thais lose their sense of humour when the insult is pointing in their direction.

But as one poster has already mentioned, there are no photos, videos or any official reports to confirm this has happened, so this maybe a lot of ado about nothing.

I have seen the pictures but the guy took them down as soon as this thread was started for personal reasons .

[hanuman1]

The kids were allowed to dress up like that partly because Thais - in their own country - considered it not to be offensive. Does that mean that they condoned, agreed with or even knew about the tenets of Nazism? No. Please let's get our heads around these apparently contradictory - but actually entirely possible - facts.

Edited September 24, 2011 by hanuman1

[David006]

Once they have been posted in the school paper or whatever, Seems to me some pics should find their way to the front page of The Nation. It, after all, one must assume has mostly foreign readership?

And thence on "the wire" to Al Jazeera, CNN etc...???

It is in very bad taste( though only to most Farangs probably) but so are many parades and protests throughout the world... all done under the right of assembly rules etc.

Sad that it was done under the direction of teachers to immature, mostly innocent kids though.

I would guess there was no negative reaction by Thai onlookers ?

[Jingthing]

Educators should know better. I feel sorry for the students being led by such stupid people. No, they weren't showing support for Nazis, they were just being ignorant. It isn't a matter of being offended. The parents paying fees there should be offended though by the quality of the educators there.

As far as satire using Nazi symbols, that is an entirely different thing.

Watch The Producers by Mel Brooks. It is very funny.

Each case is different. Such school Nazi parades in Thailand aren't satire. In Thailand, with such widespread ignorance of WW2, satire of Nazi stuff wouldn't fit.

The example of Mao. It isn't the same. Mao is still beloved by a huge portion of the Chinese people. It is felt he did lots of good, and some very, very bad. He remains an iconic symbol of China. You have to take each leader like this, case by case.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Jingthing

[moe666]

How about walk the <deleted>-k out and if you have a kid there take him out and go to another school. Get over it, people can be cruel, uncareing, belligerent, stupid, ignorant, and a host of other things. If a person or group offends you donot associate with them. its up to you how you want to deal with it you can make it your problem or walk away and let it be theirs.

[venturalaw]

Amazing isn`t it, how quick the Thais lose their sense of humour when the insult is pointing in their direction.

But as one poster has already mentioned, there are no photos, videos or any official reports to confirm this has happened, so this maybe a lot of ado about nothing.

I have seen the pictures but the guy took them down as soon as this thread was started for personal reasons .

I was at Butter is Better having breakfast as they marched by. It definitely happened.

[uptheos]

Educators should know better. I feel sorry for the students being led by such stupid people. No, they weren't showing support for Nazis, they were just being ignorant. It isn't a matter of being offended. The parents paying fees there should be offended though by the quality of the educators there.

I agree with this statement, except for the use of the word 'educators' in this situation.

The parents should not only feel offended because of the imbeciles teaching there, they should also be angry because they've obviously been had. As my old dad would have said; "you've done your money and bought a lemon, get rid of it quick".

This is something people saw 'outside' the classroom, what the frig are they teaching in the classroom, which no-one sees?

Edited September 25, 2011 by uptheos

[jackr]

To most Thais the use of Buddha images as ornaments in the West is just as offensive. I know a Thai restaurant in the UK that has a large bust of Buddha on the floor next to the mats to brush the soles of shoes. This is also an example of ignorance.

C'mon Loaded, you can do better than that. Not quite in the same context as millions of people being killed at the hand of a complete nut-job. Leave the Thai aologist banter to the prolls.

It is indeed a sad scenario. I'm guessing they do know what happened - certainly the teachers do - but, very likely, have not conceptualized it fully as it's just not relative to them, and, also likely, they just do not give a shit. Now if millions were slain in Thailand at the hand of a crossed-daggers wearing Tan Shwe, for example, and a parade were held in a Western high street by a bunch of 'crossed-dagger' wearing farang students, do you think Thais living there would feel any sort of anger/bewilderment?

[uptheos]

It is indeed a sad scenario. I'm guessing they do know what happened - certainly the teachers do - but, very likely, have not conceptualized it fully as it's just not relative to them, and, also likely, they just do not give a shit.

A teacher should be able to think, reason and form concepts, but teacher's here cannot do that.

I think "do not give a shit" basically sums it up.

[venturalaw]

Educators should know better. I feel sorry for the students being led by such stupid people. No, they weren't showing support for Nazis, they were just being ignorant. It isn't a matter of being offended. The parents paying fees there should be offended though by the quality of the educators there.

This is something people saw 'outside' the classroom, what the frig are they teaching in the classroom, which no-one sees?

Really a good point. Additionally, what has not been mentioned, for lack of a better description, was the bizarre 'theme' of the parade. Only the participants in Nazi garb have been mentioned, but what I saw were numerous examples of basically the darkest side of society. There was a miniature float with a cage containing 2 students looking like they were prisoners. There were young girls dressed as, what appeared to be, satanic devil worshipers. It was all really strange.

Edited September 25, 2011 by venturalaw

[jackr]

A teacher should be able to think, reason and form concepts, but teacher's here cannot do that. I think "do not give a shit" basically sums it up.

I'd also add that little nugget that most, if not all (including the Thai apologist element), of us have pondered in our time here... STUPIDITY.

[Ulysses G.]

A teacher should be able to think, reason and form concepts, but teacher's here cannot do that. I think "do not give a shit" basically sums it up.

I'd also add that little nugget that most, if not all (including the Thai apologist element), of us have pondered in our time here... STUPIDITY.

Although I have often been accused on TV of wearing rose-colored glasses when it comes to Thailand, I have to admit that I was thinking the same thing.

[bifftastic]

You just cannot transfer the feelings and emotions gathered in your life onto other people living x thousand miles away, I can't understand that at all.......why would you expect them to understand?

In the same way that I understand about the Khmer Rouge, the Japanese invasion of China, the Vietnam war and all kinds of things that happened thousands of miles away from where I was born.

The fact that the Nazis never did anything in Thailand, to Thai people, shouldn't really mean that they are unable to understand anything about them and somehow make it 'ok' to have school children parading around dressed as Nazis, should it?

[uptheos]

In the same way that I understand about the Khmer Rouge, the Japanese invasion of China, the Vietnam war and all kinds of things that happened thousands of miles away from where I was born.

The fact that the Nazis never did anything in Thailand, to Thai people, shouldn't really mean that they are unable to understand anything about them and somehow make it 'ok' to have school children parading around dressed as Nazis, should it?

Yes, but you were taught world history and geography at school and probably followed world news on TV or radio. You probably also started reading newspapers at a young age and didn't still read cartoon books at age 21.

Thai's aren't taught world history or geography. A Thai student cannot pick Thailand out on a blank map, so heaven knows where they think other countries are in relation to Thailand. But this is simply a manifestation of the teacher's inability, because they can't either!

[Paagai]

Seems to be a bit of a TV storm in a tea cup to me

It's a catholic school right? Perhaps they were just celebrating the Pope's visit to Germany and dressing the kids up in the uniform he used to wear in Germany's Hitler Youth to honour that?

Anyway, things could be worse, at least a Nazi uniform is smart and masculine, and the Thai's do love a man in uniform. I can think of at least one school here in CM where the biggest problem is trying to stop the boys dressing up as girls

O.K., I agree it wasn't that smart a move, but then with a school which teaches it's pupil's to believe in imaginary friend's I'm with Jacr and UG on STUPIDITY theory

[uptheos]

It's a catholic school right? Perhaps they were just celebrating the Pope's visit to Germany and dressing the kids up in the uniform he used to wear in Germany's Hitler Youth to honour that?

Maybe. The Catholic Church and Hitler's regime were great pals, with the same agenda.

[Thaddeus]

I've just worked out the analogy.

It's one self proclaimed master race mimicking a prior one.

Didn't take the Nazi's that long to find out they were wrong, I wonder how long it will take the Thais.

[lis41]

A lot of interesting perspectives have been raised by this thread. I saw this video about a week ago and found it hysterical. I found what happened at Sacred Heart school chilling, offensive and wrong. Am I a hypocrite? I don't know - again the Falang vs. Thai point of view will always come into play. I lean heavily toward 'the administration and teachers dropped the ball' in terms of a teaching opportunity and, if I did have children in the school, I would undoubtedly pull them out. You want your school teaching values along with the curriculum. That responsibility falls on administration and staff. This decision reflected SH's values. Children can plead ignorance but responsible educators - regardless of the hemisphere they were born in - may not. If the administrators and staff responsible for allowing this to happen justify their decision with ignorance, mai pben rai, and that was something that happened in the past so we don't need to respect it, again they are exhibiting their values. Now it's up to the paying parents to exhibit their own.

[Ulysses G.]

Perhaps they were just celebrating the Pope's visit to Germany and dressing the kids up in the uniform he used to wear in Germany's Hitler Youth to honour that?

That could be it.

[KayCee]

A quick google search turns up dozens of links to the fallout from a similar "sports day" incident in Bangkok four years ago.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488159/Thai-school-apologises-Jewish-organisation-Nazi-parade-sports-day.html

for instance. Now when the school is forced to apologize to the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which I'm pretty sure would have been the result of a diplomatic brouhaha in the Ministries of Foreign Affairs and Education, and a teacher is dismissed over it, one would imagine that even in Chiang Mai, the incident was well covered in the press, and the teachers were probably aware of the incident.

Leaving aside whether they (the teachers and school administration) should be aware and sensitive to the historical significance of the Nazi genocide just because it happened (and I would say yes, that educators should surely be held to a higher standard than the general population), one would surely expect they would be able to guess that they probably would not benefit from a repeat of the 2007 storm of bad press.

I'm with those who would say it's appallingly bad judgment, and I wouldn't want my children studying in that sort of place.