Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[RichardinBKK]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

Sorry. we did not know there was a statute of limitations on being shocked by public displays of affection for genocide. Of course, yes, you were born in 1960...that explains it...ummmm...of course....yes...how silly of us. Perfectly logical. (???????????????????????)

[Firelily]

I cannot be bothered to read 17 pages, so I may be repeating stuff for people who are making fun of sawatdee and swastika - they actually do come from the same Sanskrit word, no coincidence there.

I would say even if the teachers had absolutely no clue what the symbols meant, there is still no excuse for letting children march holding guns (even if not real). They claim they had no knowledge of the costumes, it was all kept in secret - I completely refuse to believe this, having seen way too many sports day preparations (elsewhere, thankfully).

[h90]

.......take a look in Naklua and you will see many Germans wearing SS crash helmets or stickers on their bikes, also girls with tatoos......

That is a bloody lie. In Germany it is a criminal offence showing or wearing Nazi symbols. We are taught extensively in school what happened during the Third Reich and in many schools it is mandatory to visit a "Konzentrationslager". When Thais wearing Nazisymbols I am always really embaressed and I asked myself how the people here can be so ignorant. It is a Catholic school where this happened and they should be very aware of this because of their colaboration with the Third Reich.

I have seen it as well in Naklua. In Germany/Austria it is a dogma, it is not allowed to discuss it. There is a lot of controversy, specially gas chambers in some Konzentrationslager which were "examples" till 1960 and after they were labeled as real. There were leading people of KZs which told the courts that they didn't had gas chambers they just shot all.

But with such ideas you got straight into jail in Germany/Austria. Because of such laws there are a lot people who doubt details of it in Germany/Austria. Other like the symbols but can't use it in Germany/Austria. Once they have freedom of speech they bore us with that old junk...in Naklua for example.

It is allowed to discuss it, but it is not allowed to deny the Holocaust. Several years ago they jailed David Irving in Austria for his denial of the Holocaust.

No that is not true. Every discussion is denying it in Austria.

"Hitler did not plan it from the beginning, he got the idea later during the war" is denying

"Hitler did not kill 6 Million he killed only 4 Million" is denying

"Hitler did not gas them, he shot them" is denying

There was recently the release of that guy who wrote a controversial book and told the court he can proof everything he wrote and the court simply did not allow any proofs as it is a dogma. Not the court did not honor the documents/proofs he had, he simply wasn't allowed to come with it.

A complete disgrace for rule of law. More North Korea style.

[Kananga]

I cannot be bothered to read 17 pages, so I may be repeating stuff for people who are making fun of sawatdee and swastika - they actually do come from the same Sanskrit word, no coincidence there.

I would say even if the teachers had absolutely no clue what the symbols meant, there is still no excuse for letting children march holding guns (even if not real). They claim they had no knowledge of the costumes, it was all kept in secret - I completely refuse to believe this, having seen way too many sports day preparations (elsewhere, thankfully).

Thais lie and not accept responsibility? In the words of the immortal Victor Meldrew..I don't believe it!

[Nisa]

It's sad that these children had no idea of the implications of these costumes, nor were aware of the acts committed by the Nazis. But we should ask ourselves, before we condemn the Thai educational system, how many secondary school pupils in the UK or anywhere in the west are aware for example of the Japanese actions in China throughout the 1930s?.

Also. the original report was in the Daily Wail! Try this:www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail

but the thais are also not told about what the japanese did to thailand during wwII too , its brushed under the carpet so they can believe they are such a strong country that has never been conquered , ........time to tell the whole truth and nothing but me thinks,............. a thai teacher once told me that this is not taught in thai schools because the students would be 'angry' towards the japanese,................boo hoo !

Japan didn't conquer Thailand. Why would they teach this now if it wasn't considered to be the case when it was happening. Japan attempted to invade Thailand but after a few hours a mutual agreement was worked out between both countries. Thailand actually gained land during the war and was able to avoid the same problems and fate of other enemy countries after the war.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Nisa

[osiboy]

It's sad that these children had no idea of the implications of these costumes, nor were aware of the acts committed by the Nazis. But we should ask ourselves, before we condemn the Thai educational system, how many secondary school pupils in the UK or anywhere in the west are aware for example of the Japanese actions in China throughout the 1930s?.

Also. the original report was in the Daily Wail! Try this:www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail

The thais are not told about what the japanese did in thailand during WWII either, its all brushed under the carpet,...they like to teach the students that thailand has never been conquered , i think they are ashamed of their role during this time period , a thai teacher once told me that if students were told about what the japanese did to thailand that they would be very angry ,............... well boo hoo !,..................time to tell the truth and nothing but ,me thinks

[balo]

This is just innocent fun from a Thai student perspective.

Get over it , its not the end of the world.

[Jingthing]

This is just innocent fun from a Thai student perspective.

Get over it , its not the end of the world.

Nobody said it was. Many are saying the school administration needs to take ownership of what happened and deal with it in an adult manner.

[JAG]

To get back to the original story, don't forget that this was planned by the pupils to be a surprise, (they succeeded in that respect!)

It was a silly foolish stunt by a bunch of secondary school students, who didn't understand the implications.

It raises several questions, about the history curiculum taught in Thai Schools, and not least about the lack of supervision of the fancy dress parade planning. (I bet it will not be a surprise next year).

Knowing a little bit about the way the Church operates (yes I am a catholic) I suggest that the Head Teacher of this school will shortly be having an interview, most definitley without coffee, with the Bishop of Chiang Mai. It doesn't reflect well on the School, which is a pity as by and large I think that the Catholic Schools in Thailand provide a good education, often to some of the less priviledged children.

But I'm sure that it was nothing more than a stunt that went badly wrong, not an indication that Thailand is a fascist country, or that there is anything inherently evil in what these young people did.

Enough, I'm off for a beer!

Edited September 27, 2011 by JAG

[jsflynn603]

It's not only Thailand. I have a tenant who recently came to Keene State College, part of the University of New Hampshire system to teach cinema studies. She told me that she was appalled by their inability to write or spell, but what appalled her the most that not one single student in her first class had ever heard of the Viet Nam war.

[osiboy]

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

The swastika may very well be a religious symbol, but the uniforms and plastic machine guns are not.

Where on earth did this idea of 'fashion' spring from? And what on earth was going through their heads!? Getting a bit tired of the same lame excuse for this breathtaking ignorance.

See my post above yours.

Students in Thailand are not very aware of European history or even geography. But of course they also like to schock, etc.

What they did was clearly wrong and the school should have acted promptly and swiftly. That no teacher would have know what the studens were planning to wear is unbelieveble.

really ? i thought it was a world war ? and i believe there was a little action around burma, malaysia,singapore,phillipines and even thailand, ............ with some of your comments im starting to believe you were educated in thailand !

[WilliaminBKK]

I don't know whether I am sad or mad.

[geriatrickid]

Lost in the discussion is the fact that Sacred Heart Catholic School is under the guidance an influence of the Roman Catholic Church. The RC has a very clear position on Nazis and the the events related to WWII: It abhors the event and considers the Nazi period to be one horrible sin. I'm not trying to start a debate on the Church, but am emphasizing that there can be no excuse for this event at a Catholic school because it violates the current position of the Church Having students parading about in nazi garb is an affront and rebuke to the Church. As such, the argument that the poor dears were ignorant or that the swastika is a good luck sign etc holds no water. The use of non Christian symbols, particularly those associated with practices and customs not consistent with Church teachings and positions is contrary to the Church doctrine, and are neither encouraged nor promoted by Church associated entities.

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic clergy needs to assert itself in this matter. Either the school is worthy of being called a Catholic School or it is not. At the very least, someone needs a smack across the head from a Sister Mary Margaret and needs to revisit the compulsory morals class and curriculum.

[hanuman2543]

[

No that is not true. Every discussion is denying it in Austria.

"Hitler did not plan it from the beginning, he got the idea later during the war" is denying

"Hitler did not kill 6 Million he killed only 4 Million" is denying

"Hitler did not gas them, he shot them" is denying

There was recently the release of that guy who wrote a controversial book and told the court he can proof everything he wrote and the court simply did not allow any proofs as it is a dogma. Not the court did not honor the documents/proofs he had, he simply wasn't allowed to come with it.

A complete disgrace for rule of law. More North Korea style.

It is true that Austria has the toughest law regarding Holocaust denial:

AustriaIn Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.

National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)

§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years imprisonment.

^[14]

§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.

^[15]

But calling that North Korea style when a democratic elected government decides to adress this problem in a law is simply ridiculous. It can't be disrespect for the rule of law when lies about a genocide are forbidden. I can't see that a serious discussion about the Holocaust is not allowed.

[Jingthing]

I don't know whether I am sad or mad.

I'm neither, but also not SURPRISED in the slightest.

A while back I reported seeing two oil painting portraits of Adolph Hitler in a heroic pose being worked on by a Thai copy painter. This was in a high traffic location, a place where many thousands walk by every day. It was obvious to me some local Nazi had ordered them up. I gave this Thai a look of outrage and he returned the expression with a blank look. Please no comments that it was a Buddhist portrait.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

It's not only Thailand. I have a tenant who recently came to Keene State College, part of the University of New Hampshire system to teach cinema studies. She told me that she was appalled by their inability to write or spell, but what appalled her the most that not one single student in her first class had ever heard of the Viet Nam war.

You're not American are you? So your info is just propagandized heresy, because if you were you'd know immediately that your friend has to be senseless to spout such a generalization and yet you believe him/her?

There is not a young enough uni student there that hasn't had some exposure to some Vietnam history if not by school (most likely) then most certainly by movies or documentaries (and not necessarily favorable ones either in fact seldom are they) you'd have to be a completely disconnected hermit not to have had some exposure, so I call BS.

Edited September 27, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[rebo]

The girl in the photo looks more like Taksin.

There appear to be several Thaksins in these new photos which seem to demolish the idea that staff at the school did not know

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=445

Would be too interested to see the poster (with the Nazism headline) in detail. I think I was not totally wrong assuming some political background of this event ...

And when I do not believe one thing at all then it is the story of the unaware teaching staff / administration ...

[JAG]

Lost in the discussion is the fact that Sacred Heart Catholic School is under the guidance an influence of the Roman Catholic Church. The RC has a very clear position on Nazis and the the events related to WWII: It abhors the event and considers the Nazi period to be one horrible sin. I'm not trying to start a debate on the Church, but am emphasizing that there can be no excuse for this event at a Catholic school because it violates the current position of the Church Having students parading about in nazi garb is an affront and rebuke to the Church. As such, the argument that the poor dears were ignorant or that the swastika is a good luck sign etc holds no water. The use of non Christian symbols, particularly those associated with practices and customs not consistent with Church teachings and positions is contrary to the Church doctrine, and are neither encouraged nor promoted by Church associated entities.

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic clergy needs to assert itself in this matter. Either the school is worthy of being called a Catholic School or it is not. At the very least, someone needs a smack across the head from a Sister Mary Margaret and needs to revisit the compulsory morals class and curriculum.

Geriatrickid, I bet that is exactly what is going to happen. Having had the odd smack from the Sisters in the past I am sure of it. Anyway, I don't want to start a debate on left footers and child abuse, so i really am off for that beer now.

[MaxYakov]

I think Thais are captivated by the Nazi's white supremacy message, which is kind of ironic.

Looking at the level of effort involved with this, could it be they're actually satirizing (alleged) white supremacy

and we farangs just aren't getting the joke? Scary thought, huh?

[ParadiseLost]

How ignorant do you have to be?

[Nisa]

There are instances of kids all over the globe who have dressed in Nazi gear ... wasn't there a prince in England who wore a Nazi uniform for fun as an adult? Does this mean the entire UK education system is broken and the population uneducated?

But if this topic helps those whose only self esteem comes from feeling superior to people in a developing nation ... more power to them.

God forbid some people here use any logical sense at all to know there was absolutely no hatred or negative views being expressed by these kids ... but don't let that stop you from expressing your faux outrage and faux feelings of superiority.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Nisa

[Jingthing]

There are instances of kids all over the globe who have dressed in Nazi gear ... wasn't there are prince in England who wore a Nazi uniform for fun as an adult? Does this mean the entire UK education system is broken and the population uneducated?

But if this topic helps those whose only self esteem comes from feeling superior to people in a developing nation ... more power to them.

God forbid some people here use any logical sense at all to know there was absolutely no hatred or negative views being expressed by these kids ... but don't let that stop you from expressing your faux outrage and faux feelings of superiority.

Oh please, bad comparison. Prince Harry apologized and it was a party costume not a power parade. The Nazi King of England never did.

[boracic]

As a Blitz Survivor and visitor to Belsen shortly after the war, and to Oradour sur Glane. where I openly wept,.I am called a "sick old man", for reminding people about the

most murderous phase in the history of homo sapiens..never too sure about the sapiens.

Hitler said the Third Reich would live for a Thousand Years, well it lasted for twelve, but the memory of it will last for a Thousand Years.

[RaoulDuke]

Not meaning to make light of the horrors of the Holocaust, but to be fair, schools in the West, at least the USA, teach almost nothing of the many other genocides that have occurred in recent human history. The atrocities committed by the Japanese during WWII are no less horrific than that of the Germans, and yet I knew nothing about them until entering college. And the college I am currently attending (a public college in Los Angeles) does not even offer a class on European or Asian history. I still know next to nothing about what happened in Cambodia (killing fields), Turkey (Armenians), and Bosnia (Muslims), none of which were ever taught to me in school. The bottom line is that world history is a subject that is sorely lacking in schools across the planet, Thailand is hardly unique. And the sad thing is that it is ignorance of history which often leads to the worst of events repeating themselves, over and over again, as we never seem to remember the lessons learned the last time around.

Edited September 27, 2011 by RaoulDuke

[Jingthing]

Not meaning to make light of the horrors of the Holocaust, but to be fair, schools in the West, at least the USA, teach almost nothing of the many other genocides that have occurred in recent human history. The atrocities committed by the Japanese during WWII are no less horrific than that of the Germans, and yet I knew nothing about them until entering college. And the college I am currently attending does not even offer a class on European or Asian history. I still know next to nothing about what happened in Cambodia (killing fields), Turkey (Armenians), and Bosnia (Muslims), none of which were ever taught to me in school. The bottom line is that world history is a subject that is sorely lacking in schools across the planet, Thailand is hardly unique. And the sad thing is that it is ignorance of history which often leads to the worst of events repeating themselves, over and over again, as we never seem to remember the lessons learned the last time around.

You won't find Pol Pot parades hosted by Catholic schools in America. Stop denying there is a real serious ignorance problem in Thailand.

[Nisa]

There are instances of kids all over the globe who have dressed in Nazi gear ... wasn't there are prince in England who wore a Nazi uniform for fun as an adult? Does this mean the entire UK education system is broken and the population uneducated?

But if this topic helps those whose only self esteem comes from feeling superior to people in a developing nation ... more power to them.

God forbid some people here use any logical sense at all to know there was absolutely no hatred or negative views being expressed by these kids ... but don't let that stop you from expressing your faux outrage and faux feelings of superiority.

Oh please, bad comparison. Prince Harry apologized and it was a party costume not a power parade. The Nazi King of England never did.

Oh, this wasn't a party where the kids were allowed to wear costumes? And you know the kids or school hasn't or won't apologized to those who may have been offended?

Sounds pretty dam_n identical to me accept in one case you have an adult prince, who came from one of the worst effected countries in the war, wearing a nazi uniform and another were it was kids whose country suffered very little and was not really involved in the war.

Kind of telling in terms of how willing you are to forgive and excuse one and not the other.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Nisa

[osiboy]

Well I have met many Thais who think England and Germany are suburbs in London. London of course is in America

the wifes niece apparently has a boyfriend from ' france,england' ,..........hab food for eat, maipenrai

[StreetCowboy]

Lost in the discussion is the fact that Sacred Heart Catholic School is under the guidance an influence of the Roman Catholic Church. The RC has a very clear position on Nazis and the the events related to WWII: It abhors the event and considers the Nazi period to be one horrible sin. I'm not trying to start a debate on the Church, but am emphasizing that there can be no excuse for this event at a Catholic school because it violates the current position of the Church Having students parading about in nazi garb is an affront and rebuke to the Church. As such, the argument that the poor dears were ignorant or that the swastika is a good luck sign etc holds no water. The use of non Christian symbols, particularly those associated with practices and customs not consistent with Church teachings and positions is contrary to the Church doctrine, and are neither encouraged nor promoted by Church associated entities.

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic clergy needs to assert itself in this matter. Either the school is worthy of being called a Catholic School or it is not. At the very least, someone needs a smack across the head from a Sister Mary Margaret and needs to revisit the compulsory morals class and curriculum.

So the sponsors of a parade have to endorse all the political views not only of the people participating in the parade, but also the characters that they dress up as?

I don't have a strong view on how people dress in parades, and if they had gone around burning effigies of Billy Connolly I hope I would have taken it in my stride, but I do get concerned when people start attacking others' freedom of dress without acknowledging that they are on a march down the slippery slope to tyranny.

Many of the more outspoken posters on this thread have been condemning the parade participants for failing to hold the same views that they themselves hold, and making comments like "those that do not learn from history are bound to repeat it". But learning from history is different from knowing one's history. The Nazi party rose to power led by a demagogue who appealed to the disenfranchised, and made them feel victims, and gave them the moral guidance to start a struggle against 'foreigners' including their neighbours of other races. Deutsche Leibe Deutsche might have been a better name for the party than National Socialist.

I suppose most of us are particularly distressed by the horrors of the holocaust because we find it hard to understand how our neighbours, who seem so much like us, could have participated, albeit tacitly, and perhaps fear that in such a position we would ourselves have lacked the spiritual and moral heroism that was exhibited by the few who stood against the tyranny within Germany.

As others have said - perhaps this could be the starting point for a learning activity on the history of tyranny, good taste and consideration for others' feelings. In which case, one way of starting that educational process would be "YOU ARE SO IGNORANT!" and we could take it from there...

SC

[WarpSpeed]

Not meaning to make light of the horrors of the Holocaust, but to be fair, schools in the West, at least the USA, teach almost nothing of the many other genocides that have occurred in recent human history. The atrocities committed by the Japanese during WWII are no less horrific than that of the Germans, and yet I knew nothing about them until entering college. And the college I am currently attending (a public college in Los Angeles) does not even offer a class on European or Asian history. I still know next to nothing about what happened in Cambodia (killing fields), Turkey (Armenians), and Bosnia (Muslims), none of which were ever taught to me in school. The bottom line is that world history is a subject that is sorely lacking in schools across the planet, Thailand is hardly unique. And the sad thing is that it is ignorance of history which often leads to the worst of events repeating themselves, over and over again, as we never seem to remember the lessons learned the last time around.

Well parents are for filling in the gaps.. I'm sorry to hear yours didn't but I still don't see how you could be in college and not have heard anything on these issues until then, you must have a led a veeeery sheltered life..

[Kananga]

How ignorant do you have to be?

Lets clear something up here.

Harry was a teenager at the time, not a private school full of highly educated nuns. He was at a private party, not goosestepping around in broad daylight in front of children, parents and the general public.

He has German parentage so just showing remembrance to his ancestors..