Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[BuckarooBanzai]

This thread is a conduit of hatred. We all know what took place. We should not have to put up reminders of arguments of what took place. TV is not the place for this diatribe.

I guess this settles everything, then? Ok, we'll all log off now and hit the sack dreaming of dancing sugarplums. Well ... dancing fill-in-the-blank ... anyway.

I thought TV was about expats living in Thailand. The Thai educational system is of concern. But this thread brings up expat anger. There are a lot of expats here on both sides of the fence that I think feel equally bad about what took place in World War I and II. So lets focus on fixing the problems and educating the Thai educators. Some people love to hate but I am not one of them.

Ahem. This is the internet which, I believe is available worldwide (free world, that is). Also, I don't remember identifying my nationality or location when signing up. Do you? So, as it appears to be, is open to anyone (free world, that is). The Thai educational system is not a big concern of mine. It's not my problem, but I do know of problems in countries that have a deficient education system. I don't see educating the Thai educators as one of my responsibilities either. I'm not a hater either, however, I do discriminate and have decided not to tell the Thai what to do or how to do it - unless someone materializes with some compensation for my services. Back to the dancers ...

Max, I am not suggesting that you solve the educational problems of the Thai educational system. I know that some people were hurt much more than others and find it hard to let go of the past. Beyond that I can only hope that the world learns to forgive the present inhabitants for the misdeeds of their forefathers.

[dude007]

I can remember seeing a Nazi Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

I am confused too... Aren't there two kinds of swatiska's: the one is the mirror image of the other but the meaning is I believe very different. There is such swastika painted on the dome of the islam-mosque when driving to Samut Songkram, right hand side, just before driving through the salt fields...

[Hawkup2000]

Nazi paraphernalia is tolerated in Thailand because this country did not suffer much from WWII. If they'd lost 25 million people like the Soviet Union did for example, they would have been wearing different sort of uniforms.

Sweden was "neutral" in WW 2. There is zero tolerans to anything to do with nazis or their symbols....

Not true. I wear a grey Waffen SS wendejacket without markings during the winters in Sweden. Nothing ilegal about that. Why do I wear it? Its warm and nice looking, infact no one can guess that it is a military jacket.

[richardblanc]

Nazi paraphernalia is tolerated in Thailand because this country did not suffer much from WWII. If they'd lost 25 million people like the Soviet Union did for example, they would have been wearing different sort of uniforms.

Sweden was "neutral" in WW 2. There is zero tolerans to anything to do with nazis or their symbols....

Not true. I wear a grey Waffen SS wendejacket without markings during the winters in Sweden. Nothing ilegal about that. Why do I wear it? Its warm and nice looking, infact no one can guess that it is a military jacket.

sorry but there is many peoples wearing ss logo in europe

can look in youtube for verify

and first are the skin head maybe

tolerance zero does'nt exit

[Throatwobbler]

This happened a few years ago. Has this just happened again or is the Daily Mail short of gossip to report on?

No it's just happened again.

[Nisa]

Nazi paraphernalia is tolerated in Thailand because this country did not suffer much from WWII. If they'd lost 25 million people like the Soviet Union did for example, they would have been wearing different sort of uniforms.

Sweden was "neutral" in WW 2. There is zero tolerans to anything to do with nazis or their symbols....

Not true. I wear a grey Waffen SS wendejacket without markings during the winters in Sweden. Nothing ilegal about that. Why do I wear it? Its warm and nice looking, infact no one can guess that it is a military jacket.

I think he may be thinking of another country as Holocaust denial is not illegal in Sweden.

Swedish mountains named 'little Hitler' and '3rd Reich'

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/swedish-mountains-named-little-hitler-and-3rd-reich-irk-some-climbers-1.308228

Sweden Cited for Failing to Pursue Nazi War Criminals

http://swedenisrael.blogspot.com/2011/05/sweden-cited-for-failing-to-pursue-nazi.html

Although the Swedes were technically neutral during WWII, the Swedes sold war materials to the Germans. Sweden harbored active collaborators with the Nazis after the war. Swedish Queen Sylvia’s German father was a member of the Nazi party, and produced weapons at a Berlin factory confiscated from a German Jew. Several hundred Swedes served as volunteers in the SS.

Sweden Refuses to Extradite Danish Neo-Nazi

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/128439

[Throatwobbler]

This is just my thoughts on the matter. Why are people shocked that teenage Thai kids know nothing about the Halocaust and what the Nazis did. Ask any teenage British kid about the Khmer rouge and I'm sure you will get equally as blank looks.

People have got to get over their Eurocentric ways of looking at things. It's a lot bigger world than that. How old where you you when you heard about the rape of Nanking . I would hazard you are a lot older than the kids we are talking about. I would also hazard a guess that a large percentage of people on here crying outrage have never heard of it themselves

There are far too many pages to read through here but I've read some of them. But those are my opinions.

As an aside to my comment the girl who lives opposite goes to sacred heart. I showed her parents and the neighbours the story in the mail. I then aslo showed them photos of the Holocaust so they could get some idea why people were so offended. They were shocked to see the outrage and then shocked to see the Holcaust. Ignorance is not an excuse but like I mentioned above ask many people in Europe or the US about Asian atrocities and they will be just as clueless.

Ok my 2 penneth over. I expect to be shot down in flames now.

[Throatwobbler]

Nazi paraphernalia is tolerated in Thailand because this country did not suffer much from WWII. If they'd lost 25 million people like the Soviet Union did for example, they would have been wearing different sort of uniforms.

Sweden was "neutral" in WW 2. There is zero tolerans to anything to do with nazis or their symbols....

Not true. I wear a grey Waffen SS wendejacket without markings during the winters in Sweden. Nothing ilegal about that. Why do I wear it? Its warm and nice looking, infact no one can guess that it is a military jacket.

I think he may be thinking of another country as Holocaust denial is not illegal in Sweden.

Swedish mountains named 'little Hitler' and '3rd Reich'

http://www.haaretz.c...imbers-1.308228

Sweden Cited for Failing to Pursue Nazi War Criminals

http://swedenisrael....ursue-nazi.html

Although the Swedes were technically neutral during WWII, the Swedes sold war materials to the Germans. Sweden harbored active collaborators with the Nazis after the war. Swedish Queen Sylvia's German father was a member of the Nazi party, and produced weapons at a Berlin factory confiscated from a German Jew. Several hundred Swedes served as volunteers in the SS.

Sweden Refuses to Extradite Danish Neo-Nazi

http://www.israelnat...ews.aspx/128439

I remember when I first came here meeting a Swede who was wearing an Iron Cross because he though it was funny. I exploded at him about that it not one of my finest moments.

I saw him the next day and he was no longer wearing it. maybe he got my message.

[richardblanc]

Nazi paraphernalia is tolerated in Thailand because this country did not suffer much from WWII. If they'd lost 25 million people like the Soviet Union did for example, they would have been wearing different sort of uniforms.

Sweden was "neutral" in WW 2. There is zero tolerans to anything to do with nazis or their symbols....

Not true. I wear a grey Waffen SS wendejacket without markings during the winters in Sweden. Nothing ilegal about that. Why do I wear it? Its warm and nice looking, infact no one can guess that it is a military jacket.

I think he may be thinking of another country as Holocaust denial is not illegal in Sweden.

Swedish mountains named 'little Hitler' and '3rd Reich'

http://www.haaretz.c...imbers-1.308228

Sweden Cited for Failing to Pursue Nazi War Criminals

http://swedenisrael....ursue-nazi.html

Although the Swedes were technically neutral during WWII, the Swedes sold war materials to the Germans. Sweden harbored active collaborators with the Nazis after the war. Swedish Queen Sylvia's German father was a member of the Nazi party, and produced weapons at a Berlin factory confiscated from a German Jew. Several hundred Swedes served as volunteers in the SS.

Sweden Refuses to Extradite Danish Neo-Nazi

http://www.israelnat...ews.aspx/128439

are u really superman ?

u must be for have this knowlege

[KeyserSoze01]

.......take a look in Naklua and you will see many Germans wearing SS crash helmets or stickers on their bikes, also girls with tatoos......

That is a bloody lie

You haven't been to Pattaya or Naklua, have you?

If you had, you would know that what PattayaPhon said is true. The fact that many wearing this garb are of German heritage makes it all the more disturbing.

[StreetCowboy]

I am more concerned that this post has gone on so long, with no relevance being drawn to Thailand and its current situation. and the forthcoming situation, when the economic cycle swings round to afflict Thailand. You don't need a toothbrush moustache to incite racism, and war reparations are not the only source of national indignity.

Thai culture appears to have two conflicting strands - nationalism (thai rak thai etc) and laissez faire (mai pen rai) - amongst hundreds of others - though these are the two that I would play upon were I a demagogue intent on becoming a megalomaniac evil dictator.

So now, let's carry on the role-play, put the boot polish on our top lips, and look at how this affects the sale of our telecom industry to the state of Singapore

SC

EDIT: my apologies - just trying to get a semblance of relevance to Thailand

[KeyserSoze01]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I tend to agree with you.

This is seen as insensitive to *western* culture, ... et alors? WWII for Thailand was all about Japan, not Germany and the holocaust.

Now for a catholic school, certainly the teacher(s) following the students' work should have known better.

It is a good lesson for the Thai students in cultural sensitivity, but the outrage seen here is, perhaps, overdone. (IMHO).

Others have made good points, Japan/China/1930s, religious symbols, etc...

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

By your stance, WWII should be forgotten as a footnote in history. Over 100 million people died as a direct result of the Nazi party and you tend to agree that the response is overdone? Perhaps if your parents had been taken prisoner by the Nazis, treated worse than animals, starved and used in work camps, then finally stripped naked, gassed to death and thrown in a mass grave you would have a slightly different opinion.

[osiboy]

It's sad that these children had no idea of the implications of these costumes, nor were aware of the acts committed by the Nazis. But we should ask ourselves, before we condemn the Thai educational system, how many secondary school pupils in the UK or anywhere in the west are aware for example of the Japanese actions in China throughout the 1930s?.

Also. the original report was in the Daily Wail! Try this:www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail

but the thais are also not told about what the japanese did to thailand during wwII too , its brushed under the carpet so they can believe they are such a strong country that has never been conquered , ........time to tell the whole truth and nothing but me thinks,............. a thai teacher once told me that this is not taught in thai schools because the students would be 'angry' towards the japanese,................boo hoo !

Japan didn't conquer Thailand. Why would they teach this now if it wasn't considered to be the case when it was happening. Japan attempted to invade Thailand but after a few hours a mutual agreement was worked out between both countries. Thailand actually gained land during the war and was able to avoid the same problems and fate of other enemy countries after the war.

mutual agreement my ar*e ! it was done at the end of a gun , do or die , do you think thailand was in a position to say no ?? , it may not be an ''official" conquer , buts lets not try to fool anyone,...least not ourselves.

[richardblanc]

I remember when I first came here meeting a Swede who was wearing an Iron Cross because he though it was funny. I exploded at him about that it not one of my finest moments.

I saw him the next day and he was no longer wearing it. maybe he got my message.

and how many did u exploded in thailand?

looking for it start in phuket then pattaya good luck :jap:

[KeyserSoze01]

Wow, people are shocked, and with good reason. These same kids and others throughout Thailand and other countries are exposed to the unaware praising of a well known murderer,Che Chevera. T-shirts of Chevera are on display for sale all over, yet no outrage over the honoring of a butcher leader from Cuba. Chevera, and Marxist, was the right hand man for Fidel Castro and was personally responsible for the murder and executions of hundreds of Cubans, yet people wear his T shirts, many not having a clue who the person on their t-shirt really is, the same as the students at the Thai school. I have asked numerous people over the years if they knew who the person was that was shown on the t-shirt they were wearing-none knew is was the butcher of Cuba, Che Chevera. So let us not be so quick on condemming these students while many in our presence unknowingly praise a butcher of people, Che Chevera

Or as many say'Che who?"

Good point. I have asked many people wearing Che Guevara clothing just <deleted> are they thinking. This not just in Thailand, but elsewhere in the world as well. To a person, none have known who or what CG was actually about or the atrocities done in his name. Most think it is similar to wearing Bob Marley Rasta gear. Lots of ignorant people in the world.

[lannarebirth]

This is just my thoughts on the matter. Why are people shocked that teenage Thai kids know nothing about the Halocaust and what the Nazis did. Ask any teenage British kid about the Khmer rouge and I'm sure you will get equally as blank looks.

People have got to get over their Eurocentric ways of looking at things. It's a lot bigger world than that. How old where you you when you heard about the rape of Nanking . I would hazard you are a lot older than the kids we are talking about. I would also hazard a guess that a large percentage of people on here crying outrage have never heard of it themselves

There are far too many pages to read through here but I've read some of them. But those are my opinions.

As an aside to my comment the girl who lives opposite goes to sacred heart. I showed her parents and the neighbours the story in the mail. I then aslo showed them photos of the Holocaust so they could get some idea why people were so offended. They were shocked to see the outrage and then shocked to see the Holcaust. Ignorance is not an excuse but like I mentioned above ask many people in Europe or the US about Asian atrocities and they will be just as clueless.

Ok my 2 penneth over. I expect to be shot down in flames now.

I agree with much of what you say, but with this caveat. Those similarly ignorant overseas students you mention probably are not holding pageants glorifying Pol Pot, whom I agree, they probably know nothing about.

[Jingthing]

Iron Crosses are really so bad? I think they used to be Hippie fashion wear.

[Jingthing]

I agree with much of what you say, but with this caveat. Those similarly ignorant overseas students you mention probably are not holding pageants glorifying Pol Pot, whom I agree, they probably know nothing about.

Not probably are not. NOT! You can bet the house on that.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jingthing

[Balls]

Something compels me to respond to this ludicrous topic. So many people think that Thais should be aware of the past history of Europe (or even the entire the World) when they have absolutely no clue! As many of you mentioned, the Thai teachers have no clue! IMO the students were trying the "Thai (and any other countries younger people) thing" of shock. The students are so unaware - yet they cannot be blamed. To a Thai, there is no avenue to history other than Thai history!

The uniforms look "cool" and the plastic machine guns only represent a freedom unknown to Thailand. None of the young Thais are even aware of the suppression the country suffered during WWII. The Thai educational (history) system is in the dark ages.

Again, IMO, they should forget trying to catch up with the past and concentrate on the basics.

I have two young boys in school now and I would rather the Thai educational system prepare them for the future. A 'demonstration' like this is just common 'kids stuff', if it offends anyone, they should get over it, the sooner the better! Let's move on!

[richardblanc]

atrocities shirt

ok the pope

make kids wear it and explain to them how vatican love good boys

this is not the past it happen now

[lannarebirth]

Something compels me to respond to this ludicrous topic. So many people think that Thais should be aware of the past history of Europe (or even the entire the World) when they have absolutely no clue! As many of you mentioned, the Thai teachers have no clue! IMO the students were trying the "Thai (and any other countries younger people) thing" of shock. The students are so unaware - yet they cannot be blamed. To a Thai, there is no avenue to history other than Thai history!

The uniforms look "cool" and the plastic machine guns only represent a freedom unknown to Thailand. None of the young Thais are even aware of the suppression the country suffered during WWII. The Thai educational (history) system is in the dark ages.

Again, IMO, they should forget trying to catch up with the past and concentrate on the basics.

I have two young boys in school now and I would rather the Thai educational system prepare them for the future. A 'demonstration' like this is just common 'kids stuff', if it offends anyone, they should get over it, the sooner the better! Let's move on!

You may very well be right, but what is it about this evnet that makes you think the Thai education system will prepare your children for the future? As far as I'm concerned the best thing about this thread is, it should be a wake up call to everyone here that NO WAY do you want your kids in the Thai education system. As far as I'm concerned that's parental neglect.

[nurofiend]

Something compels me to respond to this ludicrous topic. So many people think that Thais should be aware of the past history of Europe (or even the entire the World) when they have absolutely no clue! As many of you mentioned, the Thai teachers have no clue! IMO the students were trying the "Thai (and any other countries younger people) thing" of shock. The students are so unaware - yet they cannot be blamed. To a Thai, there is no avenue to history other than Thai history!

The uniforms look "cool" and the plastic machine guns only represent a freedom unknown to Thailand. None of the young Thais are even aware of the suppression the country suffered during WWII. The Thai educational (history) system is in the dark ages.

Again, IMO, they should forget trying to catch up with the past and concentrate on the basics.

I have two young boys in school now and I would rather the Thai educational system prepare them for the future. A 'demonstration' like this is just common 'kids stuff', if it offends anyone, they should get over it, the sooner the better! Let's move on!

You may very well be right, but what is it about this evnet that makes you think the Thai education system will prepare your children for the future? As far as I'm concerned the best thing about this thread is, it should be a wake up call to everyone here that NO WAY do you want your kids in the Thai education system. As far as I'm concerned that's parental neglect.

it's not parental neglect, it's ignorance... the very definition of the word.

[Trouble]

Amazing number of posts here. Seems like anything to do with the holocaust/Nazis etc. is sure to bring out the extremes. I am sure those of Jewish heritage (if that is the right way to put it) feel very offended by what happened at the school. You should understand that the Holocaust is just one event in world history. While a sensitive issue for Jews and Israel, it is not necessarily sensitive for everyone else, particularly those born subsequent to the event. It is estimated that over 50 million people died as a result of WWII. What happened to the Jews and others (and there were many others) in the death camps was an appalling chapter in history. There have been many appalling chapters in human history which have shown how low the human race can sink. It has been estimated that the gulags of the Stalin era saw more people put to death than the Nazis could have imagined. The killing fields of Cambodia are another example. It goes on and on. The unfortunate part is that it still occurs. As one who majored in history in college, I have put the holocaust in perspective along with the other atrocities in history. The killing of any one person based on religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, ideology, etc. is an atrocity in itself. Over 65 years have passed since WWII. Most of Europe and the west has been held hostage to the holocaust since then. Even in those countries who actively fought the Germans in WWII there has been a tendency to feel apologetic about what happened. We feel we have to atone for this with memorials and monuments even in Washington, DC with the Holocaust memorial some 60 years after the event occurred. I am tired of being made to feel bad about what happened before I was born. It was a terrible thing. I would like to think the world would learn something from it, but it has not.

Do I share the sadness of what happened during the holocaust, sure. But quiet honestly I feel worse about what happened in Cambodia after the Vietnam war because this was my era and I was stationed in Vietnam while serving in the US Air Force. .Just maybe had the United States not been involved in that war, and then bailed out on its allies in South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, the Khmer Rouge would not have gone to the extremes that they did. Just maybe there would have been no killing fields. I was actually happy when the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia and put a stop to the brutal regime in Cambodia. Unfortunately full accountability and punishment for the atrocities in that country were never fully carried out. Over 50% of the population in Vietnam was born after the Vietnam war and do not seem to hold the United States as a poison. People move on, generations change, and I hope that at some point in time the Jews can move on beyond the Holocaust. As one poster stated, it seems like Israel and many Jews use this for leverage. The time has come to stop making the world feel guilty about the holocaust. I for one do not feel guilt for things that occurred before I was born. The holocaust is no more important to the children of Thailand than the gulags of Stalin, the Armenian genocide, or any of the other atrocities that have occurred. As an American I feel more guilt about what the white man did to the American Indians in their push west. America sends billions to Israel each year and Native Americans in some cases live in poverty. When I was in high school, I learned about the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean War as honestly the emphasis was on "American" history. I did not learn until college that the Japanese invaded China, took control of Korea, etc. as early as the 1930's. There is no way students can be taught the whole of world history as there just is not enough class time to do that. So I would say tread lightly on criticism of what occurred in this Thai school.

A little off subject but it has been touched on here a bit (and for the record I am not anti-Israel) is that I feel that Israel plays the holocaust card well through Jews throughout the world. But Israel has hardly stepped up to the plate in regard to atrocities that have occurred in other parts of the world in recent history by leading in word or deed to alleviate suffering when genocide has occurred in areas such as Africa which have been in close proximity. It seems to have been the Western nations who have made the effort to stop genocide and help alleviate the suffering in recent history, unfortunately not always successfully.

[Beetlejuice]

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

Yes I agree, but religious symbols do not apply in this case. That group knew exactly what they were doing and exactly what it all meant.

The facts are that Thai people are secluded in their own world.

As for world history, many as not interested because they don`t consider what has happened or what is happening in other parts of the world has any relevance to them. This is why history is so low on the curriculum in most Thai schools, colleges and Universities.

I very much doubt if those that organised this spectacle and the participants give a rat’s behind about world opinion or what anyone else thinks, or who it offends.

The attitude is, this is Thailand, we can do what we like in our own country and if you don`t like it then bugger off back home.

They were not and still not concerned as to the reaction this farce has caused. They take the easy get me out of this option and just plead ignorance knowing that the public have short memories and by next week would have all been forgotten.

Make no mistake; these people are not as ignorant as they appear, more like indifferent to the feelings of people who they consider foreigners, because there is no way that these people could have prepared and created all that paraphernalia in such detail without first doing some research regarding the subject and without learning what the Nazis were about and what they stood for.

[commonparlance]

The Killing Fields and Rape of Nanking comparisons aren't really apt. We're talking about Thailand here, not Cambodia or China. To be honest, I doubt Thai students learn about either of these atrocities either, or about the Vietnam War, or any of the other major events in their own region. By contrast, growing up in the US, we were taught a lot about WWI and WWII, even though these conflicts didn't happen on our soil, and affected Europe and Asia more than they affected us. And in addition to extensive US history, we also studied the histories of ancient and Medieval Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.

But this is just one example of what I see as a larger issue. What it comes down to, I think, is that there's a fundamentally different view of history in Thailand than there is in the West (perhaps this distinction could be made between Asia in general and the West, but I don't know enough about other Asian countries to make this assertion). In Thailand, history is the past, it's done, it's dead. There doesn't seem to be a lot of thought put into causes and effects, how what happened yesterday shapes the world today.

This is further compounded by the fact that only Thai history is taught, and it's really more self-mythology than history per se. Of course, the American history that's taught in US schools is biased, and sometimes tends toward chauvinistic myth-making. But particularly over the past 20 years or so, things have shifted to where students are taught about more about the unsavory aspects of our history (slavery, the extermination of the Native Americans, prejudice against immigrants) in no uncertain terms.

At least in the West we're taught that history matters and that it's important to study the histories of other parts of the world, because what happens in one place often affects changes thousands of miles away, just as things that happened in the distant past still have relevance today. I don't see either of these ideas being valued in the Thai education system, and until they are, not only will there continue to be these sorts of controversies, I think Thailand as a country will remain held back.

[Jingthing]

Amazing number of posts here. Seems like anything to do with the holocaust/Nazis etc. is sure to bring out the extremes. I am sure those of Jewish heritage (if that is the right way to put it) feel very offended by what happened at the school. You should understand that the Holocaust is just one event in world history. While a sensitive issue for Jews and Israel, it is not necessarily sensitive for everyone else, particularly those born subsequent to the event. It is estimated that over 50 million people died as a result of WWII. What happened to the Jews and others (and there were many others) in the death camps was an appalling chapter in history. There have been many appalling chapters in human history which have shown how low the human race can sink. It has been estimated that the gulags of the Stalin era saw more people put to death than the Nazis could have imagined. The killing fields of Cambodia are another example. It goes on and on. The unfortunate part is that it still occurs. As one who majored in history in college, I have put the holocaust in perspective along with the other atrocities in history. The killing of any one person based on religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, ideology, etc. is an atrocity in itself. Over 65 years have passed since WWII. Most of Europe and the west has been held hostage to the holocaust since then. Even in those countries who actively fought the Germans in WWII there has been a tendency to feel apologetic about what happened. We feel we have to atone for this with memorials and monuments even in Washington, DC with the Holocaust memorial some 60 years after the event occurred. I am tired of being made to feel bad about what happened before I was born. It was a terrible thing. I would like to think the world would learn something from it, but it has not.

Do I share the sadness of what happened during the holocaust, sure. But quiet honestly I feel worse about what happened in Cambodia after the Vietnam war because this was my era and I was stationed in Vietnam while serving in the US Air Force. .Just maybe had the United States not been involved in that war, and then bailed out on its allies in South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, the Khmer Rouge would not have gone to the extremes that they did. Just maybe there would have been no killing fields. I was actually happy when the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia and put a stop to the brutal regime in Cambodia. Unfortunately full accountability and punishment for the atrocities in that country were never fully carried out. Over 50% of the population in Vietnam was born after the Vietnam war and do not seem to hold the United States as a poison. People move on, generations change, and I hope that at some point in time the Jews can move on beyond the Holocaust. As one poster stated, it seems like Israel and many Jews use this for leverage. The time has come to stop making the world feel guilty about the holocaust. I for one do not feel guilt for things that occurred before I was born. The holocaust is no more important to the children of Thailand than the gulags of Stalin, the Armenian genocide, or any of the other atrocities that have occurred. As an American I feel more guilt about what the white man did to the American Indians in their push west. America sends billions to Israel each year and Native Americans in some cases live in poverty. When I was in high school, I learned about the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean War as honestly the emphasis was on "American" history. I did not learn until college that the Japanese invaded China, took control of Korea, etc. as early as the 1930's. There is no way students can be taught the whole of world history as there just is not enough class time to do that. So I would say tread lightly on criticism of what occurred in this Thai school.

A little off subject but it has been touched on here a bit (and for the record I am not anti-Israel) is that I feel that Israel plays the holocaust card well through Jews throughout the world. But Israel has hardly stepped up to the plate in regard to atrocities that have occurred in other parts of the world in recent history by leading in word or deed to alleviate suffering when genocide has occurred in areas such as Africa which have been in close proximity. It seems to have been the Western nations who have made the effort to stop genocide and help alleviate the suffering in recent history, unfortunately not always successfully.

Overall, in my view, the impression your post gives is that you are sick and tired of being guilt tripped by Jews. You deserve credit for being honest, but I can't give you much more credit than that.

It seems to me it's up to the Jewish people, not you or anyone else, whether it's time to "move on" from the holocaust. Sorry to tell you that the sentiment of NEVER AGAIN translates pretty much into never forget.

You cite Vietnam and the people not hating Americans. True that, but the last time I checked the Uncle Ho mausoleum in Hanoi is still massively popular. Do you think Israel and Germany are enemies now? Actually, they are close friends and allies.

You seem a bit put out by holocaust museums. Did they force you to attend? I reckon the one in Washington D.C. is the best one. Have you been? Are you aware that besides documenting the Shoah, a key raison d'etre of these holocaust museums is to raise awareness of CURRENT genocides in the world?

http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/

What was different about the Nazi regime holocaust? What was different is that it was done by the most advanced industrialized country at the time in the heart of so called civilized western Europe. What was different was that they used modern media propaganda to brainwash their people (Jews portrayed as rats at the movies) and what was different was the industrial age technology they used to perform the genocide. (Classic example of Nazi genocide propaganda shown below.) Namely, the gas chambers. Also, the use of fascist pseudo race science "proof" to show the scientific basis for genocide. It isn't all about numbers; its also the shocking element of this happening in the context of modernity and advanced civilization.

Israel not doing enough about current genocides in the world? That's a fair point, but it's a small country with lots of her own problems, but I do know they have a strong foreign aid focus in offering quick response medical teams in emergencies. If you watched the coverage after Haiti earthquake, you will have noticed the Israeli medical teams were star players. Whether Israel is perfect or not (it is not!) doesn't seem to me to be all that relevant to whether the Nazi regime holocaust deserves inclusion in global school curriculum or whether Catholic school hosted Nazi parades should EVER be tolerated anywhere.

Cheers.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jingthing

[nurofiend]

there was no malice in what they did.

it's not right, it's not good, it should be condemned... but it was sheer stupidity, and that's where the hilarity lies!

it's ignorance in its purest form.

[Beetlejuice]

Amazing number of posts here. Seems like anything to do with the holocaust/Nazis etc. is sure to bring out the extremes. I am sure those of Jewish heritage (if that is the right way to put it) feel very offended by what happened at the school. You should understand that the Holocaust is just one event in world history. While a sensitive issue for Jews and Israel, it is not necessarily sensitive for everyone else, particularly those born subsequent to the event. It is estimated that over 50 million people died as a result of WWII. What happened to the Jews and others (and there were many others) in the death camps was an appalling chapter in history. There have been many appalling chapters in human history which have shown how low the human race can sink. It has been estimated that the gulags of the Stalin era saw more people put to death than the Nazis could have imagined. The killing fields of Cambodia are another example. It goes on and on. The unfortunate part is that it still occurs. As one who majored in history in college, I have put the holocaust in perspective along with the other atrocities in history. The killing of any one person based on religion, ethnicity, sexual preference, ideology, etc. is an atrocity in itself. Over 65 years have passed since WWII. Most of Europe and the west has been held hostage to the holocaust since then. Even in those countries who actively fought the Germans in WWII there has been a tendency to feel apologetic about what happened. We feel we have to atone for this with memorials and monuments even in Washington, DC with the Holocaust memorial some 60 years after the event occurred. I am tired of being made to feel bad about what happened before I was born. It was a terrible thing. I would like to think the world would learn something from it, but it has not.

Do I share the sadness of what happened during the holocaust, sure. But quiet honestly I feel worse about what happened in Cambodia after the Vietnam war because this was my era and I was stationed in Vietnam while serving in the US Air Force. .Just maybe had the United States not been involved in that war, and then bailed out on its allies in South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, the Khmer Rouge would not have gone to the extremes that they did. Just maybe there would have been no killing fields. I was actually happy when the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia and put a stop to the brutal regime in Cambodia. Unfortunately full accountability and punishment for the atrocities in that country were never fully carried out. Over 50% of the population in Vietnam was born after the Vietnam war and do not seem to hold the United States as a poison. People move on, generations change, and I hope that at some point in time the Jews can move on beyond the Holocaust. As one poster stated, it seems like Israel and many Jews use this for leverage. The time has come to stop making the world feel guilty about the holocaust. I for one do not feel guilt for things that occurred before I was born. The holocaust is no more important to the children of Thailand than the gulags of Stalin, the Armenian genocide, or any of the other atrocities that have occurred. As an American I feel more guilt about what the white man did to the American Indians in their push west. America sends billions to Israel each year and Native Americans in some cases live in poverty. When I was in high school, I learned about the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korean War as honestly the emphasis was on "American" history. I did not learn until college that the Japanese invaded China, took control of Korea, etc. as early as the 1930's. There is no way students can be taught the whole of world history as there just is not enough class time to do that. So I would say tread lightly on criticism of what occurred in this Thai school.

A little off subject but it has been touched on here a bit (and for the record I am not anti-Israel) is that I feel that Israel plays the holocaust card well through Jews throughout the world. But Israel has hardly stepped up to the plate in regard to atrocities that have occurred in other parts of the world in recent history by leading in word or deed to alleviate suffering when genocide has occurred in areas such as Africa which have been in close proximity. It seems to have been the Western nations who have made the effort to stop genocide and help alleviate the suffering in recent history, unfortunately not always successfully.

Was wondering when these discussions would move on to the Jews and so it has arrived.

My view is that during the second world war in Europe, many Europeans were labelled as Jews and the situation became that it was open season on these people, even by their own countrymen, they were humiliated and striped of everything.

Also the assets plundered from millions of people helped finance the axis powers.

Of course the scenes of people marching in full Nazi regalia is going to bring fear into the hearts of those (not only Jews) that were at the receiving end of the most brutal regime in history and not forgetting that the atrocities committed during that era are still in living memory.

The exaggeration of the differences between the Jews and other Europeans is still widely practiced by ultra right wing groups today, as a means of separating them and alienating others against them. Anti Semitism is a disease and should be recognised as such.

The question is, do you view the Jews of Europe as the counterparts of their Christian patriots or as members of an alien race and society? Because if the latter, then that's your problem and something you're have to live with.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[473geo]

there was no malice in what they did.

it's not right, it's not good, it should be condemned... but it was sheer stupidity, and that's where the hilarity lies!

it's ignorance in its purest form.

Correct, there was no malice in what they did.......and no thought or compassion in many of the insulting 'Mr angry' posts here

If people must transfer their anger at the atrocities conducted by the Nazi, I hardly think it is fair to lay it on a bunch of school kids in northern Thailand today circa 70 years later

[Jingthing]

To be clear, I paint what the Thai students did as pure ignorance and I also don't see malice there. It's not a big deal on the face of it except to expose ignorance, but the fact that there has been a delay in the administration taking responsibility for what happened as they should have stopped it, rather than blaming the students, makes it rather a bigger deal. They could do with a course in Public Relations 101.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jingthing