Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[softgeorge]

Did you know that the composer of the Thai national anthem was German?

I guess so, as you seem to know it all. Did your wife grow up in England?

Don't get freaked-out - it was (according to the trusty Wiki) Peter Feit who also had a Thai name.

He was the son of a German immigrant and royal advisor for music. (Wiki)

Did that make him German-Siamese or Siamese-German, I can't help wondering?

And that of the Australian Anthem is Sri Lankin.

[Jingthing]

Throwing down the race card on this: Racism Daily Article. Jeesh! I don't see anything about race in their article and it looks like it's been plagiarized from the web. The comments are closed.

That's a stretch, Max.

Nazism is very racist, so the story fits well in media about racism events.

We have already established that at least most of us here don't feel the students were actually Nazis themselves, only that they (out of ignorance) paraded in Nazi costumes.

Let's face it, stories about Thai students parading as Nazis have legs. It's shocking and the pictures are mesmerizing. Don't be surprised to find these images in many thousands of global websites.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jingthing

[cmsally]

Of course the other thing is that the present National Anthem was introduced by good old Phibulsongkram - the nationalist military dictator that allied with the Axis nations. He also enforced the singing of it twice a day. Nationalism was very much on the agenda and they were hoping to expand by getting territory back if the Japs won.

The whole Thailand image is one built on nationalism started around WW2. The Tai race actually moved down from Southern China (Tai Lue, Tai Yai, Tai Khoen etc)

[animatic]

'Nisa' timestamp='1317527581' post='4737469'

If a TV Show from 45-years ago (Hogan's Heroes) can bring bring big ratings while being a comedy set in a German POW camp, I really think it is time to let go over the over sensitivity related to symbols of The Third Reich when no intentional ill will is meant.

In some countries they have felt a need to pass laws about displaying such symbols including Germany where anti-nazi groups have been targeted and arrested for displaying anti-swastika signs. You want to talk about rewriting history and promoting ignorance when you cannot even question a state version of historical events but also cannot even buy a model plane of WWII if it shows a swastika. Things like this do nothing to heal and simply give more power to symbols that were around long before the Nazis were. There are few major militaries in the world who have not committed atrocities but no other military uniform is given so much power and the unrealistic belief that one must support the ideals of such a uniform or that ever soldier who wore the uniform was evil. Many people (especially young ones) wear things simply because they look cool or because they believe they are being different. or to gain attention.

As long as groups give power (often to benefit their own group) to these uniforms and symbols people will be offended while doing nothing to actually educate people. Putting power into objects such as these is akin to giving powers to ghosts.

Completely off topic again. The topic is, should schools sponsor parades with a Nazi theme? And in particular Catholic schools (given their complicity in the Nazi regime)?

No one gives a hoot if kids wear Nazi uniforms on a field trip to the mall. No one cares if anyone writes a sitcom where Nazis are depicted as brainless buffoons.

This thread is about a scholastic institution promoting Nazism be it with knowledge or without knowledge of what Nazism means.

So, I guess you are saying in any context it would be wrong to have somebody dressed as Nazis at a school or to be more exact showing anyone in a nazi costume marching at a school regardless of the reason.

One thing we do no FOR SURE is this school did not sponsor anything with a Nazi Theme .. they sponsored a fancy dress Sports Day.

Take a hundred kids dress them up in Nazi uniforms with Nazi banners and march them around the school. What kind of theme would you say it was? Barbi doll? Of course it was a Nazi theme regardless of the reason for the marching. Everyone knows it was a Nazi theme. That is why the nun wrote the letter of apology.

Have you never been to a toga party?

My point is that different things upset different people.

You are a visitor to this country, and as such accept their ways.

It's pathetic seeing all these self-important foreigners complain about a harmless bit of fun that has absolutely nothing to do with them. You will never be happy here until you learn to accept what you cannot change.

Sorry to burst your bubble,

but calling this a harmless bit of fun is incredible insensitive. It was organized ignorance on display, regardless of their intent, and for many, many people it is a horrible sight. They should have known better that that age.

And this is not possibly an 'accept this as the Thais ways' argument, that is an absurdity. The inward looking nationalsim here is as much a cause of this as anything, but it does NOT win a free pass to be ignorant of this huge part of world history.

And for the record:

I watched Hogans Heros with a former German POW camp survivor. he was in 9 different POW camps. At first he didn't know what to think, and later it was some personal catharsis to get to openly laugh at the Germans as depicted. And to see them being beaten at their aims at the end of every show

He said there were many more like Sgt. Schultz than the S.S. types, but when you're a prisoner any control of your life is onerous, still the little kindnesses were appreciated coming discretely from some guards. But regardless he still got shudders each time he saw a swastika.

I also lived with a synagogue across the street, and believe me anyone venturing to parade that symbol past them would meet full outrage to this day.

And I had a room mate who's polish aunt was horrible 'butchered alive' in front of my friends mother by a S.S. officer who seemed to enjoy making the family 'talk', even as they knew nothing he needed to know. And no, they were not jewish. This girl would get weepy drunk at holidays thinking back on her families holidays from hell all her life, everyone drinking until the couldn't remember the pain and the tears caused by Nazis.

Her mother threw a lamp through a TV showing Hogans Heros. This is not so far in the past or so irrelevant that it can or should be ignored.

Edited October 2, 2011 by animatic

[Jingthing]

Anyway, Hogan's Heroes was a very popular comedy in the USA. I liked it a lot. It was meant for an American audience. It certainly didn't glorify Nazis but it poked good fun at German soldiers and overall it was probably a positive thing for a post-war America which had become close friends with the new west Germany. Audiences in the US were sophisticated enough to understand the show was a light comedy, not a historical document of WW2. I don't see any relevant comparison to the CM event at all.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Of course the other thing is that the present National Anthem was introduced by good old Phibulsongkram - the nationalist military dictator that allied with the Axis nations. He also enforced the singing of it twice a day. Nationalism was very much on the agenda and they were hoping to expand by getting territory back if the Japs won.

The whole Thailand image is one built on nationalism started around WW2. The Tai race actually moved down from Southern China (Tai Lue, Tai Yai, Tai Khoen etc)

Agree with that, and considering a lot of that fascistic heritage still influences Thai life, it is no wonder that WW2 is a delicate topic for the Thai education system.

[Johnniey]

Your argument is moot as your translation skills need improvement.

OK, you belive that wikipedia are better translators than I - I disagree.

How would you translate it?

You are 100% wrong in claiming the first like claims Thais as a race. Why don't you simply ask a Thai who is fluent in both Thai and English. I can understand how you may have thought this but it is wrong.

If you want to learn something check this link and you'll find the Thai word for 'race' and examples of it's usage.

http://www.thaitux.info/dict/?words=%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4

This is from the Lexitron English Thai Dictionary, considered by many to be the best.

Here's another dictionary:-

http://th.w3dictionary.org/index.php?q=+%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4+

Please get your facts right before posting!

Edited October 2, 2011 by Johnniey

[473geo]

Saying the teachers didn't know anything about the Nazi theme only makes the teachers look incompetent.

I would say that the teacher's knew AND they are incompetent.

Absolutely right, and no way did the kids fund OR supply, source the stuff needed to make the paraphernalia.

Well actually considering how many children save every school day for years this is probably not the finanacial challenge you appear to think it is......And as for the teachers not knowing, maybe the marching and dancing practice was not carried out wearing the full costume, quite usual in dress rehearsal, and children can be very secretive when they wish......

Edited October 2, 2011 by 473geo

[MaxYakov]

Throwing down the race card on this: Racism Daily Article. Jeesh! I don't see anything about race in their article and it looks like it's been plagiarized from the web. The comments are closed.

That's a stretch, Max.

Nazism is very racist, so the story fits well in media about racism events.

We have already established that at least most of us here don't feel the students were actually Nazis themselves, only that they (out of ignorance) paraded in Nazi costumes.

Let's face it, stories about Thai students parading as Nazis have legs. It's shocking and the pictures are mesmerizing. Don't be surprised to find these images in many thousands of global websites.

Agreed - I was only reporting. But it would be a stretch to read any overt school-related racism into this and, thankfully, they didn't by simply regurgiting what was out there which, as far as I can tell, avoids any hint of racist overtones.

Of course Racism Daily needed material and the word Nazi was all it took, I imagine. This reminds me of another organization that brought up the Holocaust in relation to the Sacred Heart Parade. Why stop there? Why don't we start recounting all the Third-Reich atrocities of WW II that involved all the countries and groups while we're at it?

A Google search on (thailand nazi school outrage) brought up about 983,000 results. It hasn't hit Drudge, yet, at least (not that Drudge matters at this point)..

Edited October 2, 2011 by MaxYakov

[473geo]

Sorry to burst your bubble,

but calling this a harmless bit of fun is incredible insensitive. It was organized ignorance on display, regardless of their intent, and for many, many people it is a horrible sight. They should have known better that that age.

And this is not possibly an 'accept this as the Thais ways' argument, that is an absurdity. The inward looking nationalsim here is as much a cause of this as anything, but it does NOT win a free pass to be ignorant of this huge part of world history.

And for the record:

I watched Hogans Heros with a former German POW camp survivor. he was in 9 different POW camps. At first he didn't know what to think, and later it was some personal catharsis to get to openly laugh at the Germans as depicted. And to see them being beaten at their aims at the end of every show

He said there were many more like Sgt. Schultz than the S.S. types, but when you're a prisoner any control of your life is onerous, still the little kindnesses were appreciated coming discretely from some guards. But regardless he still got shudders each time he saw a swastika.

I also lived with a synagogue across the street, and believe me anyone venturing to parade that symbol past them would meet full outrage to this day.

And I had a room mate who's polish aunt was horrible 'butchered alive' in front of my friends mother by a S.S. officer who seemed to enjoy making the family 'talk', even as they knew nothing he needed to know. And no, they were not jewish. This girl would get weepy drunk at holidays thinking back on her families holidays from hell all her life, everyone drinking until the couldn't remember the pain and the tears caused by Nazis.

Her mother threw a lamp through a TV showing Hogans Heros. This is not so far in the past or so irrelevant that it can or should be ignored.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but why can the Israeli embassy accept the apology, and treat this as a low key issue?...........perhaps because they recognise it was a dress up day.......and to make a large issue out of a small incident does not make people look too clever.....

Do carry on.......

[MaxYakov]

Saying the teachers didn't know anything about the Nazi theme only makes the teachers look incompetent.

I would say that the teacher's knew AND they are incompetent.

Absolutely right, and no way did the kids fund OR supply, source the stuff needed to make the paraphernalia.

Well actually considering how many children save every school day for years this is probably not the finanacial challenge you appear to think it is......And as for the teachers not knowing, maybe the marching and dancing practice was not carried out wearing the full costume, quite usual in dress rehearsal, and children can be very secretive when they wish......

And the source of income for this savings generally is ...?

[Jingthing]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but why can the Israeli embassy accept the apology, and treat this as a low key issue?...........perhaps because they recognise it was a dress up day.......and to make a large issue out of a small incident does not make people look too clever.....

Do carry on.......

Don't be too shocked, but I think the Israeli embassy response was the right tone, while the Wiesenthal center's response was boilerplate and knee jerk, as if they didn't know or care to know that these students weren't actually pro Nazi, just had made an ignorant mistake. The center risks being seen as crying wolf too much in a modern world where there are REAL and serious threats to the Jewish people.

To wit --

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Editorials/Article.aspx?id=234971

Over 73 percent approve the Muslim hadith that says “judgment day will not come until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them.”

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jingthing

[cmsally]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but why can the Israeli embassy accept the apology, and treat this as a low key issue?...........perhaps because they recognise it was a dress up day.......and to make a large issue out of a small incident does not make people look too clever.....

Do carry on.......

Don't be too shocked, but I think the Israeli embassy response was the right tone, while the Wiesenthal center's response was boilerplate and knee jerk, as if they didn't know or care to know that these students weren't actually pro Nazi, just had made an ignorant mistake. The center risks being seen as crying wolf too much in a modern world where there are REAL and serious threats to the Jewish people.

To wit --

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Editorials/Article.aspx?id=234971

Over 73 percent approve the Muslim hadith that says “judgment day will not come until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them.”

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

The Israeli embassy's reply is predictable. They are an embassy, they are here to protect Israeli interests in Thailand. As such they made a diplomatic response knowing full well that world opinion and some Jewish organisations would be making up for it.

You don't really believe that embassy statements reflect their real views do you. Next you will be saying you believe in father Xmas.

[Jingthing]

The Israeli embassy's reply is predictable. They are an embassy, they are here to protect Israeli interests in Thailand. As such they made a diplomatic response knowing full well that world opinion and some Jewish organisations would be making up for it.

You don't really believe that embassy statements reflect their real views do you. Next you will be saying you believe in father Xmas.

I am not with you on this one. The Israeli embassy represents the nation of Israel, the world's only Jewish state. The Wiesenthal Center represents the Wiesenthal Center. I think the center is having some issues now because the very last of the culpable Nazi war criminals are dying now. Dragging men to trial who are hooked up to life support systems is getting to be a bit much. Their raison d'etre was going after Nazi war criminals. It was a worthy mission while it lasted. But that's over now.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jingthing

[MaxYakov]

Of course the other thing is that the present National Anthem was introduced by good old Phibulsongkram - the nationalist military dictator that allied with the Axis nations. He also enforced the singing of it twice a day. Nationalism was very much on the agenda and they were hoping to expand by getting territory back if the Japs won.

The whole Thailand image is one built on nationalism started around WW2. The Tai race actually moved down from Southern China (Tai Lue, Tai Yai, Tai Khoen etc)

Agree with that, and considering a lot of that fascistic heritage still influences Thai life, it is no wonder that WW2 is a delicate topic for the Thai education system.

Can you give some examples of a lot of that fascistic heritage still influences Thai life?

[h1lander]

I can remember seeing a Swastika badge on the shirt of a BTS station cashier/clerk a few months ago. You can see them on bags , T-shirts, Even on the painted company buses that are everywhere, Clearly WW2 was something missing from the ciriculum in Thailand

The swastika is a religious symbols, don't mix it up with the nazi swastika. See the link in my earlier post.

As far as I know you're wrong. Yes the swastica LOOKS like a religious symbol, but the Nazis were good at corruption - the swastica is actually the REVERSE of the religious symbol.

[animatic]

Anyway, Hogan's Heroes was a very popular comedy in the USA. I liked it a lot. It was meant for an American audience. It certainly didn't glorify Nazis but it poked good fun at German soldiers and overall it was probably a positive thing for a post-war America which had become close friends with the new west Germany. Audiences in the US were sophisticated enough to understand the show was a light comedy, not a historical document of WW2. I don't see any relevant comparison to the CM event at all.

Agreed.

[animatic]

Sorry to burst your bubble,

but calling this a harmless bit of fun is incredible insensitive. It was organized ignorance on display, regardless of their intent, and for many, many people it is a horrible sight. They should have known better that that age.

And this is not possibly an 'accept this as the Thais ways' argument, that is an absurdity. The inward looking nationalsim here is as much a cause of this as anything, but it does NOT win a free pass to be ignorant of this huge part of world history.

And for the record:

I watched Hogans Heros with a former German POW camp survivor. he was in 9 different POW camps. At first he didn't know what to think, and later it was some personal catharsis to get to openly laugh at the Germans as depicted. And to see them being beaten at their aims at the end of every show

He said there were many more like Sgt. Schultz than the S.S. types, but when you're a prisoner any control of your life is onerous, still the little kindnesses were appreciated coming discretely from some guards. But regardless he still got shudders each time he saw a swastika.

I also lived with a synagogue across the street, and believe me anyone venturing to parade that symbol past them would meet full outrage to this day.

And I had a room mate who's polish aunt was horrible 'butchered alive' in front of my friends mother by a S.S. officer who seemed to enjoy making the family 'talk', even as they knew nothing he needed to know. And no, they were not jewish. This girl would get weepy drunk at holidays thinking back on her families holidays from hell all her life, everyone drinking until the couldn't remember the pain and the tears caused by Nazis.

Her mother threw a lamp through a TV showing Hogans Heros. This is not so far in the past or so irrelevant that it can or should be ignored.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but why can the Israeli embassy accept the apology, and treat this as a low key issue?...........perhaps because they recognise it was a dress up day.......and to make a large issue out of a small incident does not make people look too clever.....

Do carry on.......

Because they are being 'diplomatic', which is not necessary for everyone else. And not one person in the anecdotes above is jewish except those from the synagogue across the street.

So offense being taken need not be solely apportioned to Israelis or their embassy. There were several christians who also found nazi actions beyond all bounds of humanity. And it is the abject ignorance of this monumental sections of human history that is so shocking.

Edited October 2, 2011 by animatic

[473geo]

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

I have a question, why should the children in Thailand be taught about War in Europe? If we are to teach them about European history, why not dwell on the more positive aspects? I doubt there is room in the curriculum to teach a full version of European history, Asian History, American history........although there are obvious reasons why Europeans remember the wars, would it not be rather neglectful to ignore the other poltical and hsitorical happenings and provide historical teaching only about war?......for two generations in Europe war was the main talking point.......perhaps it is time for moving on, no need to forget, but perhaps the memories should be allowed to die with those who suffered, perhaps that is what they would wish........not having people becoming agitated and abusive on their behalf.....

Edited October 2, 2011 by 473geo

[Jingthing]

I have a question, why should the children in Thailand be taught about War in Europe?

Well, at least one reason has become quite apparent. Teaching the actual history reduces the chances of future embarrassing Nazi parades. I think WW2 is still recent enough and important enough to be included in schools globally. However, I can understand in Thailand there would be more emphasis on the Asian part of the war.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jingthing

[transam]

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

I have a question, why should the children in Thailand be taught about War in Europe? If we are to teach them about European history, why not dwell on the more positive aspects? I doubt there is room in the curriculum to teach a full version of European history, Asian History, American history........although there are obvious reasons why Europeans remember the wars, would it not be rather neglectful to ignore the other poltical and hsitorical happenings and provide historical teaching only about war?......for two generations in Europe war was the main talking point.......perhaps it is time for moving on, no need to forget, but perhaps the memories should be allowed to die with those who suffered, perhaps that is what they would wish........not having people becoming agitated and abusive on their behalf.....

Now the shit has hit the fan, the school should be man enough to teach the kids what the Nazi's actually did. Tell them they murdered kids like themselves by the thousands. But no, it won't happen cos loss of face at a monumental cock up by daft staff and school.

[animatic]

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

I have a question, why should the children in Thailand be taught about War in Europe? If we are to teach them about European history, why not dwell on the more positive aspects? I doubt there is room in the curriculum to teach a full version of European history, Asian History, American history........although there are obvious reasons why Europeans remember the wars, would it not be rather neglectful to ignore the other poltical and hsitorical happenings and provide historical teaching only about war?......for two generations in Europe war was the main talking point.......perhaps it is time for moving on, no need to forget, but perhaps the memories should be allowed to die with those who suffered, perhaps that is what they would wish........not having people becoming agitated and abusive on their behalf.....

Well it was a WORLD WAR, not only a European war,

and Thailands 'allies in the Axis' actually did these deeds...

Oh wait we can't admit our ancestors did bad things,

it's PURE here.

Edited October 2, 2011 by animatic

[Jingthing]

More about the Israeli embassy response. Trust me, if there was a REAL emerging neo-Nazi movement emerging in Thailand, the embassy response would have been much less diplomatic. The embassy clearly saw these weren't real Nazis, and I maintain the response was both appropriate and sincere. It's not only that it didn't make diplomatic sense to react more strongly, it didn't make sense ... period.

Again, the CM incident is mostly about the Thai education system, and very little about Nazis, Jews, and other people wronged by the Nazis.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jingthing

[cmsally]

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

I have a question, why should the children in Thailand be taught about War in Europe? If we are to teach them about European history, why not dwell on the more positive aspects? I doubt there is room in the curriculum to teach a full version of European history, Asian History, American history........although there are obvious reasons why Europeans remember the wars, would it not be rather neglectful to ignore the other poltical and hsitorical happenings and provide historical teaching only about war?......for two generations in Europe war was the main talking point.......perhaps it is time for moving on, no need to forget, but perhaps the memories should be allowed to die with those who suffered, perhaps that is what they would wish........not having people becoming agitated and abusive on their behalf.....

History is pretty much shaped by war, whatever the size. It is what can change boundaries, create countries, bring down governments, conquer enemies and create alliances. There are bits of happy history but surely you can't leave all the unhappy bits out. Tumultuous events such as a World War also go on to effect events for many years after.

Teaching happy history would be like trying to teach someone about French cheese but leaving all the smelly ones out.

[473geo]

Each historical incident stands on its own terms. Not a matter of same, worse, better. Of course the Nazis effected mass industrialized racial genocide. That's different. But yes dead is dead. Not my role to defend the American role in Vietnam, I actively protested against it for many years!

As far as Nazi parades in Thailand, CM wasn't the first time and unless the education program here changes, it won't be the last time, don't kid yourself.

My comment was about the war being over and done and hopefully never to be repeated.......not the parades.......and if another one surfaces in another 5 years....well, I doubt I will be offended on behalf of my relatives and friends, who were of quite forgiving nature, especially where children are concerned......

[metisdead]

Discussion of Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage would be on topic to this thread while discussion of America's actions in Vietnam would be another topic altogether. Off topic post and reply removed.

[473geo]

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

I have a question, why should the children in Thailand be taught about War in Europe? If we are to teach them about European history, why not dwell on the more positive aspects? I doubt there is room in the curriculum to teach a full version of European history, Asian History, American history........although there are obvious reasons why Europeans remember the wars, would it not be rather neglectful to ignore the other poltical and hsitorical happenings and provide historical teaching only about war?......for two generations in Europe war was the main talking point.......perhaps it is time for moving on, no need to forget, but perhaps the memories should be allowed to die with those who suffered, perhaps that is what they would wish........not having people becoming agitated and abusive on their behalf.....

History is pretty much shaped by war, whatever the size. It is what can change boundaries, create countries, bring down governments, conquer enemies and create alliances. There are bits of happy history but surely you can't leave all the unhappy bits out. Tumultuous events such as a World War also go on to effect events for many years after.

Teaching happy history would be like trying to teach someone about French cheese but leaving all the smelly ones out.

Indeed but if there is not to be a complete picture who decides what to leave out, and what makes war 70 years ago as important as say learning skills that are relevant today......knowledge of history is not to be ignored, but remember it is history. Even if we have the global village, we cannot expect everything that shaped our lives to be important in the life of others, I guess it is part of growing up in a shrinking world.......tolerance and understanding are much needed requirements

[473geo]

Ok guys I'm done with the dress up day......hope the Thai students enjoyed it....shame some of you chose to be offended......but I don't feel the need to waste any more of my life on this topic......

Thanks for you input

Bye

[kerryk]

Saying the teachers didn't know anything about the Nazi theme only makes the teachers look incompetent.

I would say that the teacher's knew AND they are incompetent.

Absolutely right, and no way did the kids fund OR supply, source the stuff needed to make the paraphernalia.

Well actually considering how many children save every school day for years this is probably not the finanacial challenge you appear to think it is......And as for the teachers not knowing, maybe the marching and dancing practice was not carried out wearing the full costume, quite usual in dress rehearsal, and children can be very secretive when they wish......

In some ways teachers are like cops, they all have a snitch. If there was any way on Gods earth for a couple of hundred teenage girls to keep a secret the teacher would still be informed by the faithful snitch.

I have to tell you I knew who was dealing, who was using and who was doing who and I didn't even ask. No way the teachers didn't know what was going on.

[kerryk]

But still, I think opening up the issue of the way WW2 is taught all over Thailand, not just that one school, is perfectly legitimate.

I have a question, why should the children in Thailand be taught about War in Europe? If we are to teach them about European history, why not dwell on the more positive aspects? I doubt there is room in the curriculum to teach a full version of European history, Asian History, American history........although there are obvious reasons why Europeans remember the wars, would it not be rather neglectful to ignore the other poltical and hsitorical happenings and provide historical teaching only about war?......for two generations in Europe war was the main talking point.......perhaps it is time for moving on, no need to forget, but perhaps the memories should be allowed to die with those who suffered, perhaps that is what they would wish........not having people becoming agitated and abusive on their behalf.....

History is pretty much shaped by war, whatever the size. It is what can change boundaries, create countries, bring down governments, conquer enemies and create alliances. There are bits of happy history but surely you can't leave all the unhappy bits out. Tumultuous events such as a World War also go on to effect events for many years after.

Teaching happy history would be like trying to teach someone about French cheese but leaving all the smelly ones out.

Indeed but if there is not to be a complete picture who decides what to leave out, and what makes war 70 years ago as important as say learning skills that are relevant today......knowledge of history is not to be ignored, but remember it is history. Even if we have the global village, we cannot expect everything that shaped our lives to be important in the life of others, I guess it is part of growing up in a shrinking world.......tolerance and understanding are much needed requirements

I agree, you can't have understanding without knowledge and you can't have knowledge of the present without knowledge of the past. Thais would be better equipped for the future if they knew about their past. Even more helpful a little bit about the past of the world they share with the rest of us.